~~I've been independent so long It's Hard for me to Submit~~

~~I've been independent so long It's Hard for me to Submit~~ (Full Version)

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SteelofUtah -> ~~I've been independent so long It's Hard for me to Submit~~ (7/18/2008 2:50:56 PM)
So who calls Bullshit on this and who finds it Valid. I honestly don't know because I am me no matter what and Dominant is something that I AM not something that I DO. So again what is your take on this idea? And then so that this thread doesn't die a horrible death, If you have been single for awhile what do you find hardest to get back into the swing of when you start up again? All Opinions appreciated. Steel

Missokyst -> RE: ~~I've been independent so long It's Hard for me to Submit~~ (7/18/2008 3:01:35 PM)
It is never hard with the right guy. Now.. finding the guy... THAT is the hard part! Kyst

LadyHibiscus -> RE: ~~I've been independent so long It's Hard for me to Submit~~ (7/18/2008 3:05:12 PM)
The hardest thing for me is actually hacking the TIME out of my life to devote to a submissive! It's amazing what time suckers relationships are! What does being independent have to do with being not-submissive? I want a submissive with a brain who can operate on his or her own without a million directions. Since when is a submissive some kind of parasite?

BitaTruble -> RE: ~~I've been independent so long It's Hard for me to Submit~~ (7/18/2008 3:06:53 PM)
Well, first I would want to make sure I wasn't confusing being picky with unwilling or unable to submit. Big difference. If I determined I was unwilling or unable to submit to someone with whom I otherwise had excellent chemistry, then it would call for a reevaluation of my core. I was independent and raising two kids on my own for several years and I was never unwilling or unable to submit, I was just really damn picky about who I would let into my life which is why I spent a lot of time bottoming and topping and almost zero time in submitting.

kallisto -> RE: ~~I've been independent so long It's Hard for me to Submit~~ (7/18/2008 3:08:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah So who calls Bullshit on this and who finds it Valid. I honestly don't know because I am me no matter what and Dominant is something that I AM not something that I DO. So again what is your take on this idea? And then so that this thread doesn't die a horrible death, If you have been single for awhile what do you find hardest to get back into the swing of when you start up again? All Opinions appreciated. Steel I call bullshit on this. You are right when you say it is what I am .. not what I do. I've always been a sub and will always be one, whether I'm in a relationship all the time or not. It's not an on and off button.

Missokyst -> RE: ~~I've been independent so long It's Hard for me to Submit~~ (7/18/2008 3:14:16 PM)
I think I understand where he is going with this. I am submissive but not in general. I do this only with men who inspire it from me. And yeah.. it has been a while since I felt that for someone who is not the x. I have been here in this space before. When I met him it was very easy to fall back into that submissive space. Still thinking, still me, but willing to step back out of the lead position because it felt right. Most of my life I have been independant. I am a renegade who is accustomed to taking care of myself. Letting go of the lead can happen with the right guy. It isn't that it is hard to submit again. It is that there are so few men out there (that I meet) who make me feel that bit of security it takes to allow myself to relax knowing I am in good hands. Kyst

kallisto -> RE: ~~I've been independent so long It's Hard for me to Submit~~ (7/18/2008 3:17:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Missokyst Still thinking, still me, but willing to step back out of the lead position because it felt right. Most of my life I have been independant. I am a renegade who is accustomed to taking care of myself. Letting go of the lead can happen with the right guy. It isn't that it is hard to submit again. It is that there are so few men out there (that I meet) who make me feel that bit of security it takes to allow myself to relax knowing I am in good hands. Kyst This I understand perfectly. Very well said. [:)] But I have to add, it's because it's who you are. Not what you do. If that were case, you could "do" with any man. IMO.

soul2share -> RE: ~~I've been independent so long It's Hard for me to Submit~~ (7/18/2008 3:19:59 PM)
I have lived alone since my son was 4 and went to live with dad...that was 17 years ago. I was raised to be independent and self sufficient. I take care of myself, simply because I'm the only one to do it. As far as submitting, well, that's also easy for me......after having to be on top all the time at the job, turning over the control to another is actually liberating. But I also expect to be able to voice my opinion on a subject, to be able to reach agreements with someone over something that will affect both of our lives. Is that topping from the bottom? I don't feel that it is...a relationship involves 2 people, and both should be able to contribute to it. There are a few things that I have a problem with, but it is the same things that I would have a problem with if I were in a vanilla relationship. Joint checking or sharing of money...uh-huh.....I will contribute to the running of the household, in fact, it is a stipulation of mine that I do....i refuse to be a financial burden to anyone, but the money I earn is mine...I need something to fall back on should the realtionship fall apart. The last thing I want is to find myself in a strange place, out on the street, with nothing to my name. Also, I have my job, and I want to keep it. If for nothing else, the health insurance....I'm diabetic, and the care is expensive. I want to submit, but NOT be dependent. One day, I hope to find the right one that will let me do exactly that...submit. I agree with LadyH.....I have a brain, and don't expect to be micromanaged......as I was told recently..it is hard to be a Master.....give me direction, but do so without restricting my spirit...you will find that I am a much better submissive that way. I can be independent and submissive at the same time.

SimplyMichael -> RE: ~~I've been independent so long It's Hard for me to Submit~~ (7/18/2008 3:20:22 PM)
Steele, For me, the women I prefer ARE the ones who rarely submit, who are not easy, who are strong willed and independent and who don't wear their submissiveness on their coat sleeves.

SteelofUtah -> RE: ~~I've been independent so long It's Hard for me to Submit~~ (7/18/2008 3:35:17 PM)
Interesting thought. I didn't look at it that way. See I see it as an excuse to be flipant or snotty. I saw it as a reason to not expect too much, which is also not in my nature. I give any and every relationship my ABSOLUTE all and fell no need to hold anything back or keep anything from my partner sure this took some time but it is still a fact that I hold nothing back, nor do I accept anything less than absolute. Now this phrase was said as part of an introduction, to me this screams "I will Fight you on this" which to me makes it something they are not really willing to give. I don't want to take something from someone I want it given to me because they feel I am worth having it. Just as I give my Domination I want thier submission given. Is it Easy HELL NO, do I expectit from the first second? Hell No but I do expect it to make the relationship move forward and because of that the idea that opening statement is basically "I can't help it I have been independent for so long that I am not willing to completely surrender just yet" to me this was a Cop Out. Again before I get fragged, I do not want it on day one or week two or month 6, however I also don't want to be given an excuse that allows you to remain in your little comfort factor, it just doesn't work for me. I am wondering how people feel about this from all sides which is why I posed the question the way that I did. I am looking forward to many more opinions. Steel

Missokyst -> RE: ~~I've been independent so long It's Hard for me to Submit~~ (7/18/2008 3:39:06 PM)
I am curious whether you are looking at this from a master or a dominants viewpoint. And also, is the degree of control you prefer more in a my way or the highway style? Or do you view it as a relationship which sometimes requires negotiation?

chamberqueen -> RE: ~~I've been independent so long It's Hard for me to Submit~~ (7/18/2008 3:39:07 PM)
A lot of it depends on the circumstances. If someone feels they are submissive, and want to serve for an hour long session every week or so, it should be no problem. To walk right into a 24/7 live in slave position would be very different. On the job I am the dominant. I teach, I negotiate, I lead things to be the best for the most amount of people I can. I like my down time, when I can just submit and not have to make all of the decisions. I relish the time I don't need to be in control. This is exactly the type of person my Master looks for - not someone who is submissive no matter what they are doing but someone who becomes submissive specifically for Him.

CallaFirestormBW -> RE: ~~I've been independent so long It's Hard for me to Submit~~ (7/18/2008 3:44:09 PM)
I can believe that someone is capable of being submissive but finding it difficult to submit in a given situation. Especially for the submissive individual who is exploring living submission rather than casual play, there are a lot of things to consider and a lot of fears to deal with, and I believe that sometimes it's just too much to be able to let go at a certain time or with a certain person, no matter how much the desire to live that way may be. Some people are just better at letting go than others, and that's a reality. It -is-, IMO, -both- something you are and something you do, just as I -am- a dominant-wired individual, but in certain situations, -dominant behavior- could jeopardize an already strained situation. Example: If I approach my boss at work with an attitude that is aggressively assertive and basically dominate my boss to get what I want, threatening hir authority, I may find myself without a job. At the same time, my self-assurance and assertiveness are perfectly appropriate with someone that I am training or one of my own subordinates. In either case, I am still the same person... but the circumstances reflect the ways in which it is safe/effective for me to exhibit who and what I am. Firestorm

nwcutie102 -> RE: ~~I've been independent so long It's Hard for me to Submit~~ (7/18/2008 3:58:41 PM)
myself... submissive only with the right man, right time, right relationship. the rest of what i do vanilla, non-submissive, kind of a take charge independent lady. thus, the need to submit in private. now if i could just find that man!

Skully7000 -> RE: ~~I've been independent so long It's Hard for me to Submit~~ (7/18/2008 4:03:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah Interesting thought. I didn't look at it that way. See I see it as an excuse to be flipant or snotty. I saw it as a reason to not expect too much, which is also not in my nature. I give any and every relationship my ABSOLUTE all and fell no need to hold anything back or keep anything from my partner sure this took some time but it is still a fact that I hold nothing back, nor do I accept anything less than absolute. Now this phrase was said as part of an introduction, to me this screams "I will Fight you on this" which to me makes it something they are not really willing to give. I don't want to take something from someone I want it given to me because they feel I am worth having it. Just as I give my Domination I want thier submission given. Is it Easy HELL NO, do I expectit from the first second? Hell No but I do expect it to make the relationship move forward and because of that the idea that opening statement is basically "I can't help it I have been independent for so long that I am not willing to completely surrender just yet" to me this was a Cop Out. Again before I get fragged, I do not want it on day one or week two or month 6, however I also don't want to be given an excuse that allows you to remain in your little comfort factor, it just doesn't work for me. I am wondering how people feel about this from all sides which is why I posed the question the way that I did. I am looking forward to many more opinions. Steel Context and judge of character have a lot to do with wether or not I would call BullShit or think it was valid. personally I see it as any other form of "jadedness" You've been burned before so its going to take awhile for you to be "retrained" in my mind I would go into this assuming its going to take longer with a few more bumps along the way because I'm going to have to work a little harder to Invoke that submission that they have been hiding for so long, in the same context.... this excuse Only buys them a small window of transition time. not a permenant crutch/card to pull whenver they damn well feel it. while coming from a different place, I would treat it as in the same category as a compulsion to follow a protocol from a previous owner that I didn't agree with. Cheers Skully

christine1 -> RE: ~~I've been independent so long It's Hard for me to Submit~~ (7/18/2008 4:08:36 PM)
for me, it isn't so much that i can't submit after being single for so long...it's getting back into the mind frame of submitting to another. i'm used to making all the decisions in my life and when that changes, it's a bit of an adjustment. the desire is there and always has been and will be, it just takes me a short while to get everything in sync again when i'm in a relationship.

flower2007 -> RE: ~~I've been independent so long It's Hard for me to Submit~~ (7/18/2008 4:09:53 PM)
For me, I think it's that I've been independent so long that I don't know how to submit.

Prinsexx -> RE: ~~I've been independent so long It's Hard for me to Submit~~ (7/18/2008 4:15:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah So who calls Bullshit on this and who finds it Valid. I honestly don't know because I am me no matter what and Dominant is something that I AM not something that I DO. So again what is your take on this idea? And then so that this thread doesn't die a horrible death, If you have been single for awhile what do you find hardest to get back into the swing of when you start up again? All Opinions appreciated. Steel Hi Steel: Well i guess you know from PM on the other side what i think and feel about a simple behavioural approach to 'bdsm'. i say bdsm because i don't think of bdsm as existing outside of a framework defined as the DYNAMIC or PROCESS between the two or more persons involved. However i also very much think of it as self-process because we are all in relationship to our selves. Two aspects of self-relationship are: we objectify ourselves and we have a silent, or hidden observer of what we term ourself. For me i am never out of the dynamic simply because i am not in relationship to another person as a function of bds or m. There are aspects within me which are on the rise or fall as it were. The two main aspects of myself are submissive and slave whose differential aspects i am very clear about within myself. There is also a dominant aspect but this is closely linked to sexual orientation with another for me. When i experience a hard time 'submitting' then i esacpe into slave mode where there is no choice, or rather it is a mode where i have transferred the choice to someone else. Being servile rarely tires me as it is closest to who i am but obviously for practical reasons i cannot be servile one hundred per cent of the time. SO for me adopting a submissive stance (in a behavioural form) alows me to orientate myself towwards my personal needs rather than serving the needs of the other. And again (but not finally as i think this is a damn fine point but i am somewhat preoccupied with a stint at living with my new Master 24/7 smiles) i also maintain that reationships never end, never. (For example we remain in relationship even with those who hace passed...this is a reminiscent form of relationship but a relationship neverthe less) and we each of us i believe remain in relationship with those who are ex's. Just because we shift the furniture around does not mean that we 'finish' the relatonship. Eaxh relationship builds upon the other and certainly knowledge, skill, esteem, worthiness, strength, independence and centredness are some of those qualitities of self i have bought with me from each of those Dominants and Masters to whom i am eternally grateful. Enough enough for now...... Prin xx Ed. to add: sorry, therefore the Independence Card is the Joker card. Take it our of the pack before the game begins as iy holds no power.

bamabbwsub -> RE: ~~I've been independent so long It's Hard for me to Submit~~ (7/18/2008 4:27:55 PM)
~FR~ I fully understand the statement of being independent for so long that it's hard to submit. I have to say that I am a person who is independent and, like many have said here, I don't submit easily. I don't call every man on CM "Sir" or "Master" or any other deferential title, until he earns it from me. I can only be submissive to the person that I've chosen, and giving up control of the aspects of my life that I'm accustomed to dealing with (finances, major household decisions, etc.) requires a great deal of respect and trust. So no...it isn't easy. I definitely don't see the topic statement as a cop-out or a challenge; rather, I see it as a person who wants to submit to someone, but because they perhaps have trust issues, or just because they're in the habit of making every little decision on their own, they don't just automatically or even instinctively submit. It doesn't mean that they can't or don't want to. It just takes a little more time and effort for them to get to that point.

DarkSteven -> RE: ~~I've been independent so long It's Hard for me to Submit~~ (7/18/2008 4:33:28 PM)
Maybe I'm jaded. If I get a No, I take it as such and assume that the "reason" given is frequently just a white lie that is supposed to spare my feelings. I'm getting good at moving on.

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