RE: Barack Obama purges Web site critique of surge in Iraq

Collarspace Discussion Forums

Home Login Search

RE: Barack Obama purges Web site critique of surge in Iraq

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> RE: Barack Obama purges Web site critique of surge in Iraq

Page: << < prev 1 [2] 3 4 5 next > >>

Login

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: Barack Obama purges Web site critique of surge in Iraq - 7/20/2008 3:00:27 PM

celticlord2112

Posts: 5732
Status: offline

quote:

So you agree GWB should never have been POTUS? Did you vote for him in 04? That was well after hisrepeated denials that there he had made any mistakes as POTUS. Or is this yet more of your partisan double standard crap?

I have never voted for President Bush.

However, President Bush is a leader. I do not agree with his direction, but I give credit for him having the balls to at least pick a direction.

Obama flails aimlessly in whichever direction the political breeze blows in any given moment. That ain't leadership. It's stupidity. I do not want a spineless jellyfish sitting in the Oval Office. Obama is a spineless jellyfish.

_____________________________

(in reply to DomKen)

Post #: 21

RE: Barack Obama purges Web site critique of surge in Iraq - 7/20/2008 3:09:14 PM

Thadius

Posts: 5091
Joined: 10/11/2005
Status: offline

The funniest part of the entire change is how he has decided his new policy, PRIOR to the actual fact finding trip he is now embarked on. I could drag up numerous quotes of him stating that the surge is a failure, that it will never work, that the surge is only playing into the sectarian violence... All of those positions have shown to be wrong. He is now proposing to do exactly the same thing that he claimed was a failed policy in Afghanistan.

His position has changed from on day one I will pull all troops out, to over 16 months, to lets bring those troops home and send them to Afghanistan.

I have no problem with somebody making a policy change based on new information. He has painted himself into a pretty tight political corner now, those that supported him during the primaries because he was going to pull out and the information he gets this week on the ground from the commanders is going to make his tip toeing on this issue very precarious.

Just a couple of things to think about... If his policy (no surge and complete withdrawl) was the one that was followed, what would the conditions on the ground be now? Would we be directly responsible for any atrocities that probably would have occured if we did completely withdraw when he called for it? What results would that have had on regional stability?

_____________________________

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

(in reply to celticlord2112)

Post #: 22

RE: Barack Obama purges Web site critique of surge in Iraq - 7/20/2008 3:09:46 PM

MissSCD

Posts: 1185
Joined: 3/10/2007
Status: offline

I hate to interupt the party, but it is not going to matter which one of these idiots win. They cannot fix this mess.
We are going to have to figure this out, or we will perish.

Just my two cents.

I am voting for Obama because I think he is the one for change.

I don't care what any of you say, but in my opinion, and I repeat in my opinion, GWD is the worst President we have had since Hoover.

SCD

(in reply to cloudboy)

Post #: 23

RE: Barack Obama purges Web site critique of surge in Iraq - 7/20/2008 3:11:39 PM

Thadius

Posts: 5091
Joined: 10/11/2005
Status: offline

You honestly rate him lower than Carter? Interesting.

_____________________________

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

(in reply to MissSCD)

Post #: 24

RE: Barack Obama purges Web site critique of surge in Iraq - 7/20/2008 3:18:30 PM

bipolarber

Posts: 2792
Joined: 9/25/2004
Status: offline

Odd. Your definition of the surge as "working." According to some of the websites that keep tabs on the stats, June of '08 was one of the deadliest months for US forces since the declaration of "Mission Accomplished" 54 in all dead. Months previous to this averaged about 18. So, how did the surge "peaceificate" the region? (As our illustrious "chimp in chief" would put it?)

Do I care if Obama edited his website? No. The information there has been downloaded, disseminated and will remain on the net until the end of the world. What difference does it make if it's on his site, or on that of 10,000 neco-con assholes?

Oh, BTW... John McCain says he's learning how to get on the internet... all by his widdle self! That puts him only, what... 25 to 30 years behind the times? (Talk about a reason to consider someone unfit for being POTUS!) It's the little round button on the front of the box, Senator... the one with the little globe symbol on it... THAT's what connects you to the vast "series of tubes"* known as the internet.

*A quite from Bush's head of Technology Bearu. (Also a republican luddite.)

(in reply to celticlord2112)

Post #: 25

RE: Barack Obama purges Web site critique of surge in Iraq - 7/20/2008 3:29:17 PM

Thadius

Posts: 5091
Joined: 10/11/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: bipolarber

Odd. Your definition of the surge as "working." According to some of the websites that keep tabs on the stats, June of '08 was one of the deadliest months for US forces since the declaration of "Mission Accomplished" 54 in all dead. Months previous to this averaged about 18. So, how did the surge "peaceificate" the region? (As our illustrious "chimp in chief" would put it?)

I enjoy how you like mixing apples and oranges... Check your stats and your sources. I will give you a hint in the right direction though, the surge was in Iraq not Afghanistan. Then again I have noticed that facts and sources don't bother you, because you are going to make them up anyways...

quote:

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-afghan1-2008jul01,0,2046702.story
In Iraq, at least 31 international soldiers died in June: 29 U.S. troops and one each from the former Soviet republics of Georgia and Azerbaijan.

_____________________________

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

(in reply to bipolarber)

Post #: 26

RE: Barack Obama purges Web site critique of surge in Iraq - 7/20/2008 3:32:31 PM

Thadius

Posts: 5091
Joined: 10/11/2005
Status: offline

Oh and just so you have a better idea of month by month....

http://icasualties.org/oif/

It breaks deaths down month by month and by year...

_____________________________

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

(in reply to Thadius)

Post #: 27

RE: Barack Obama purges Web site critique of surge in Iraq - 7/20/2008 4:01:49 PM

bipolarber

Posts: 2792
Joined: 9/25/2004
Status: offline

Thad,

Thanks for that link. I especially liked the "breakdown by country"

US dead = 4100+ (not counting journalists, businessmen, etc.)
All other coalition of the willing... <250

Also, considering that your source for denial is the LA Times, (a Murdock publication, who also owns Fox News) I really don't think anyone can trust anything coming from them.

(shrug) but if you say most of the dead were in Afghanistan, then I'll believe you. So the number of American dead was 29... which means that it was only AVERAGE. No change. (ie the surge really hasn't pacified at all) Huge expenditure, more people dead and wounded with no real change... to me, that = FAILURE.

(in reply to Thadius)

Post #: 28

RE: Barack Obama purges Web site critique of surge in Iraq - 7/20/2008 4:53:24 PM

Thadius

Posts: 5091
Joined: 10/11/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: bipolarber

Thad,

Thanks for that link. I especially liked the "breakdown by country"

US dead = 4100+ (not counting journalists, businessmen, etc.)
All other coalition of the willing... <250

Also, considering that your source for denial is the LA Times, (a Murdock publication, who also owns Fox News) I really don't think anyone can trust anything coming from them.

(shrug) but if you say most of the dead were in Afghanistan, then I'll believe you. So the number of American dead was 29... which means that it was only AVERAGE. No change. (ie the surge really hasn't pacified at all) Huge expenditure, more people dead and wounded with no real change... to me, that = FAILURE.

Even Murtha (the loudest opponent of the war and surge) was intellectually honest enough to admit the surge is working.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHnGqWiGTg8

Hell even Pelosi admitted the surge was working, until she rethought where that put her in terms of her supporters, and tried to lay whatever successes at the feet of the Iranians...

quote:

Nancy Pelosi in an interview at the end of May... http://cdn.sfgate.com/blogs/sounds/sfgate/chroncast/2008/05/28/ChronRadio-NancyPelosi-20080528.mp3
"
And some of the success of the surge is that the goodwill of the Iranians-they decided in Basra when the fighting would end, they negotiated that cessation of hostilities-the Iranians.
"

You are of course free to make your own decisions, and state your opinions, I just dislike your attempts at inputing your opinion as fact, specifically with no sources or citations of those "facts".

_____________________________

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

(in reply to bipolarber)

Post #: 29

RE: Barack Obama purges Web site critique of surge in Iraq - 7/20/2008 5:47:37 PM

bipolarber

Posts: 2792
Joined: 9/25/2004
Status: offline

celticlord,

Yup. Bush is sure a leader alright. So was Hitler. So was Saddam. Vlad the Impaler was a heck of a nice guy too. Robert E. Lee was respected by his man as a great leader.

Personally, in a world of globalized economies, I still think I'd like a guy who could go to a G-8 conference and NOT try to flag down the Itallian officials by yelling "HEY! AMIGOS!!!" repeatedly across the cavernous, echoing room.*

*AP, two weeks ago.

(in reply to Thadius)

Post #: 30

RE: Barack Obama purges Web site critique of surge in Iraq - 7/20/2008 5:56:12 PM

Termyn8or

Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline

Celt, I am not going to argue with you about this because it is possible that Obama is the flip flopping liberal that Kerry was accused of being. I do not deny that, but you and I can see clearly that any politician will say anything it takes.

Politics is the only job where the people who actually hire you have no control over how the job interview goes, like the questions you are asked. The sheeple have relegated that to the media. And they are failing at it miserably. I bet Europeans know more about what is going on here than our sheeple.

But the point is, if you believe anything that any of them say, you are being fooled. Care to comment on that ?

Yellowcake
WMD
Involvement in Al queada ?

What else, the ugly menacing face of the USSR, the scam they ran on us like twenty years ago ? They literally had people thinking that Russians had no color TV. That every Woman was fat and dressed like a Grandmother in a dress that looked like a smock. That their cars had no automatic transmissions. It was a bunch of bullshit then, and it is a bunch of bullshit now.

T

(in reply to Thadius)

Post #: 31

RE: Barack Obama purges Web site critique of surge in Iraq - 7/20/2008 7:19:48 PM

bipolarber

Posts: 2792
Joined: 9/25/2004
Status: offline

Propaganda exists everywhere. On the governmental level, in corperations, in advertising. You have to assume that virtually everything you see or hear is either tainted, or an outright lie. It's only when individuals with concience place themselves at risk do we actually gain the truth...

One of the men at Abu Ghraib snuck out a CD Rom of the torture that was going on there... (purportedly of the "softer" stuff) The White House attempts to pass the criminal sadisim off as "the pranks of a few bad apples." But the truth gets out... "enhanced interrogation" has been policy, handed down from the very top, since the invasion began. The truth gets out.

One journalist speaks up when he finds out that the administration is lying through it's ass about uranium sales to Iraq (the whole basis for their drumbeat to war) Later his wife, an agent of the CIA, is outed by high level officials as retribution. But the truth is out.

The federal response to Katrina was WEEKS in coming. Despite the total failure, Bush commends the horse show administrator he put in charge of FEMA (apparently as a political favor) as "Doing a heckofa job!" But the truth is seen on every major TV network. One of them sends a crew into the 9th Ward, in a boat, and the devestation is seen by the world. The truth gets out.

Sometimes, the truth is erased. Remember the servers that were "accidentally" erased, when there was a court order for the communications relating to the Plame case? Does Rove and Cheany really think the American people were fooled by that? The truth is suspected.

The Bush administration attempts to put a lid of Blackwater gunning down 12 unarmed Iraqi civilians. Video surfaces. The truth gets out.

Everything you are told by those in power, is a lie. Assume it to be true, and chances are, you'll be closer to the reality of the situation than if you just acted like a "good German."
Lately, I've been hearing from the "good Germans" a lot on this site. The folks who are in the 20% who still think "junior" is doing a good job, and leading the US on to "glorious victory." I may not always have my facts at my fingertips, but I'll be damned if I'm going to STFU, like some have suggested, and let this crap slide.

Don't like me expressing my opinion? Then, to cop a line from "Princess Bride" ... "Get used to disappointment."

(in reply to Termyn8or)

Post #: 32

RE: Barack Obama purges Web site critique of surge in Iraq - 7/20/2008 7:40:14 PM

Thadius

Posts: 5091
Joined: 10/11/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: bipolarber

Propaganda exists everywhere. On the governmental level, in corperations, in advertising. You have to assume that virtually everything you see or hear is either tainted, or an outright lie. It's only when individuals with concience place themselves at risk do we actually gain the truth...

One of the men at Abu Ghraib snuck out a CD Rom of the torture that was going on there... (purportedly of the "softer" stuff) The White House attempts to pass the criminal sadisim off as "the pranks of a few bad apples." But the truth gets out... "enhanced interrogation" has been policy, handed down from the very top, since the invasion began. The truth gets out.

One journalist speaks up when he finds out that the administration is lying through it's ass about uranium sales to Iraq (the whole basis for their drumbeat to war) Later his wife, an agent of the CIA, is outed by high level officials as retribution. But the truth is out.

The federal response to Katrina was WEEKS in coming. Despite the total failure, Bush commends the horse show administrator he put in charge of FEMA (apparently as a political favor) as "Doing a heckofa job!" But the truth is seen on every major TV network. One of them sends a crew into the 9th Ward, in a boat, and the devestation is seen by the world. The truth gets out.

Sometimes, the truth is erased. Remember the servers that were "accidentally" erased, when there was a court order for the communications relating to the Plame case? Does Rove and Cheany really think the American people were fooled by that? The truth is suspected.

The Bush administration attempts to put a lid of Blackwater gunning down 12 unarmed Iraqi civilians. Video surfaces. The truth gets out.

Everything you are told by those in power, is a lie. Assume it to be true, and chances are, you'll be closer to the reality of the situation than if you just acted like a "good German."
Lately, I've been hearing from the "good Germans" a lot on this site. The folks who are in the 20% who still think "junior" is doing a good job, and leading the US on to "glorious victory." I may not always have my facts at my fingertips, but I'll be damned if I'm going to STFU, like some have suggested, and let this crap slide.

Don't like me expressing my opinion? Then, to cop a line from "Princess Bride" ... "Get used to disappointment."

So those that don't agree with you are now "good Germans"? What does that make the 80%+ that think the Democratic Congress are doing a poor job?

quote:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/108856/Congressional-Approval-Hits-RecordLow-14.aspx

The most recent decline comes almost exclusively from Democrats, whose approval of Congress fell from 23% in June to 11% in July, while independents' and Republicans' views of Congress did not change much. As a result, Republicans are now slightly more likely than Democrats to approve of the job the Democratic-controlled Congress is doing (19% vs. 11%).

I guess most people also disagree with you about having confidence in the military... Video report from the AP
http://www.gallup.com/video/108130/US-Military-Ranks-Best-Congress-Worst.aspx

Your comparison is sickening. I don't wish for you to STFU, I appreciate the debates, I just wonder about the choice of words sometimes.

_____________________________

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

(in reply to bipolarber)

Post #: 33

RE: Barack Obama purges Web site critique of surge in Iraq - 7/20/2008 7:52:16 PM

Alumbrado

Posts: 5560
Status: offline

quote:

Don't like me expressing my opinion?

I like hearing all sorts of opinions, on all sorts of subjects. I also like making fun of people who support those opinions with sophistry, bigotry, fallacies, etc.

Even opinions I happen to agree with are tainted when specious logic and intellectual dishonesty are knee jerked into supporting them.

(in reply to Thadius)

Post #: 34

RE: Barack Obama purges Web site critique of surge in Iraq - 7/21/2008 5:32:43 AM

bipolarber

Posts: 2792
Joined: 9/25/2004
Status: offline

What does that make the people who feel the Democratic Congress is doing a poor job?

Um... people I agree with?

Thad,

I know I come off as someone who just hates Republicans, but such is not the case. I hate folk who are craven political hacks on both sides of the fence. Frankly, I thought Pelosi sold out when she took impeachment off the table. The fact that they've basically been acting as enablers to the GOP, as they dug the biggest financial hole in this nations history, is something that they will have to answer for.

It's just that the republicans are so obvious in their contempt for the Constitution, and their blatant disregaurd for the common people of the US, that I tend to target them more.

Oh, and the "good German" comments? That's something I tend to use because of my grandfather, who left Germany in 1937. He saw what was happening, that there was no way to halt the slide into fascisim. So he and Gram got out. As he put it, "there was never a sadder time than watching friends and neighbors turn so ugly, or accept the obvious evil that was taking over."

(in reply to Alumbrado)

Post #: 35

RE: Barack Obama purges Web site critique of surge in Iraq - 7/21/2008 5:45:45 AM

Archer

Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline

LOL what's really funny is that you mention Pelosi enableing Republicans to spend money.
Completely laughable since The HOUSE in which she is the Majority Leader originates all spending bills.
Is it in any way just at the enabling level when you actually control the spending.
Your bias shows clearly in the fact that while you recognize a spending problem you attribute it to Republicans when the Democrates CONTROL the spending at the moment.

Any rasonably fair argument about spending into the hole of deficit spending you mention, has to be laid in the lap of the House of Representatives, considering that they have been under control of both parties, both parties have displayed a lack of ballancing a spending budget. Republicans in control suddenly lost the fiscal responsibility idea around the time 9/11 happened, and continued unabbated until control changed hands to the Democrates, and since then the spending has not decreased dispite the election promises of Democratic House candidates elected on just such fiscal responibility.

(in reply to bipolarber)

Post #: 36

RE: Barack Obama purges Web site critique of surge in Iraq - 7/21/2008 5:48:09 AM

servantforuse

Posts: 6363
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline

O'bama...the new type pf politician,,,,,right...

(in reply to Archer)

Post #: 37

RE: Barack Obama purges Web site critique of surge in Iraq - 7/21/2008 5:50:06 AM

Owner59

Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

You honestly rate him lower than Carter? Interesting.

You honestly rate Bush higher than Careter? Interesting.

Can you back that up?

~Bipolerber,

You have been alumbrada dis-approved..... Now take that!

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 7/21/2008 6:04:47 AM >

(in reply to Thadius)

Post #: 38

RE: Barack Obama purges Web site critique of surge in Iraq - 7/21/2008 6:50:59 AM

Alumbrado

Posts: 5560
Status: offline

Can you back up your claim that the current President is responsible for the legislation dismantling mortgage regulations, and allowing predatory lending that was enacted in the 1990s?

Or have you run away from that thread long enough that you think you can keep a straight face and claim you never said that?

Just because the cool kids are willing to make up any lie as long as it smears 'them' doesn't make it the truth.

(in reply to Owner59)

Post #: 39

RE: Barack Obama purges Web site critique of surge in Iraq - 7/21/2008 7:00:44 AM

slaveboyforyou

Posts: 3607
Joined: 1/6/2005
From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
Status: offline

quote:

Also, considering that your source for denial is the LA Times, (a Murdock publication, who also owns Fox News) I really don't think anyone can trust anything coming from them.

The LA Times is not owned by Rupert Murdock, and it never has been owned by him. The LA Times is owned by Sam Zell.

You really need to check your information before you type it, bipolarber. You do this all the time.

(in reply to bipolarber)

Post #: 40

Page: << < prev 1 [2] 3 4 5 next > >>

All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> RE: Barack Obama purges Web site critique of surge in Iraq

Page: << < prev 1 [2] 3 4 5 next > >>

Jump to:

New Messages	No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages	Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages	Locked w/o New Messages

Post New Thread

Reply to Message

Post New Poll

Submit Vote

Delete My Own Post

Delete My Own Thread

Rate Posts

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.093