RE: Barack Obama purges Web site critique of surge in Iraq

RE: Barack Obama purges Web site critique of surge in Iraq (Full Version)

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cloudboy -> RE: Barack Obama purges Web site critique of surge in Iraq (7/21/2008 9:12:45 PM)
Here's another contrast. Not one Republican voted for Clinton's use of force in the former Yugoslavia. Yes many Democrats voted were behind Afghanistan and IRAQ. How do you explain this difference?

cloudboy -> RE: Barack Obama purges Web site critique of surge in Iraq (7/21/2008 9:14:24 PM)
quote: Spending is the problem, not tax cuts. Do you realize that in the past 28 years, tax cuts have tended to spur spending whereas tax hikes have tended to produce lower spending.

caitlyn -> RE: Barack Obama purges Web site critique of surge in Iraq (7/21/2008 9:20:08 PM)
I didn't complain about you personally, mearly pointed out that you seem to be always on the same note, which is a pity, as you used to be a very good read. I mean, if you want to get back on topic, than do so. Tell us what you really meant with a few of your veiled suggestions here. Are you suggesting that opposition to Senator Obama is racially motivated? What percentage? What about minorities that don't support him? What about people on this board ... people we can really only know via a few words on a board, subject to the limitation of their communications skills? If you are going to bring it up ... then bring it up. Don't throw it out there part way, then recoil from those that call you on it.

Alumbrado -> RE: Barack Obama purges Web site critique of surge in Iraq (7/21/2008 9:24:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy Here's another contrast. Not one Republican voted for Clinton's use of force in the former Yugoslavia. Yes many Democrats voted were behind Afghanistan and IRAQ. How do you explain this difference? How is it a contrast when Democrats or Republicans get people killed? Do you think the dead are happy because it was started by 'liberals'? Again...smokescreen, facade, peas in a pod, 'good cop/ bad cop', "first I voted for the war, then I was against it", ...all rhetoric and propaganda. Count the total dead bodies in the last 50 years, then count the millionaires on both sides of the aisle, and get back to me.

Alumbrado -> RE: Barack Obama purges Web site critique of surge in Iraq (7/21/2008 9:33:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: caitlyn I didn't complain about you personally, mearly pointed out that you seem to be always on the same note, which is a pity, as you used to be a very good read. I mean, if you want to get back on topic, than do so. Tell us what you really meant with a few of your veiled suggestions here. Are you suggesting that opposition to Senator Obama is racially motivated? What percentage? What about minorities that don't support him? What about people on this board ... people we can really only know via a few words on a board, subject to the limitation of their communications skills? If you are going to bring it up ... then bring it up. Don't throw it out there part way, then recoil from those that call you on it. I've been on topic with several posts about the bi-partisan corruption that is behind all politicians, including Obama, while you have been desperately trying to derail this into ad homs, so when you say that I only post on one subject you are proven wrong by the obvious method of reading what I've posted...why would you make such a blatantly untrue statement? As far as bringing 'it' up, the OP is on record with his opinions, including the 'order of things' mantra regarding the suitablility of a black man to govern America....if he or you want to defend that go right ahead, but don't just toss it out there and run away, then complain when people remember who said it, and what it means. And I'm on record as repeatedly saying that I think corruption and the lust for power transcends skin color, in Obama as well as anyone else who wants that job badly enough to do whatever it takes to get it. .

popeye1250 -> RE: Barack Obama purges Web site critique of surge in Iraq (7/21/2008 9:35:40 PM)
Wow! Barak Osama Obama as "President?" I don't Think so! I hate REPUBLICANS (because they're not CONSERVATIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!) But this little fucking cunt......

Alumbrado -> RE: Barack Obama purges Web site critique of surge in Iraq (7/21/2008 9:38:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Caitlyn What about people on this board ... people we can really only know via a few words on a board, subject to the limitation of their communications skills? quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 Wow! Barak Osama Obama as "President?" I don't Think so! I hate REPUBLICANS (because they're not CONSERVATIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!) But this little fucking cunt...... I rest my case.... feel free to defend whatever viewpoints you hold near and dear, and whatever company you wish to be known by.

proprietedeese -> RE: Barack Obama purges Web site critique of surge in Iraq (7/21/2008 9:49:07 PM)
Alumbrado, as a new poster and a new reader, i was very impressed with your channel, dont change it. If someone doesnt like what you say, they should change the channel peterk50, you think exactly what they want you to think, congradulations. Thad, all the common sense and links to back up stated facts will at all effect those that will insist on making up facts and insisting they are true. As for this thread as a whole, i cant believe it took three pages for someone to (half-assed) defend Lee. Very disappointing. Not as disappointing as our current candidtes and government. The mess they are 'saving' us from is there doing. This government is run by the very same generation that yammered on about not trusting the man, greed, etc, etc. Now that they are in power they wantall the money and they want to be big brother. Everything a democrat accuses a GOP of you can rest assured they are guilty of it themselves. Its called projection. They have successfully split the electorate. Meanwhile they are all together and only think of their own power and making more money. Gores environmental propaganda is clueless and is tailored to use an issue we all care about except for the politicians themselves. Gore jets around the world and rides in limo to tell us all WE need to conserve. Then he goes home to his mansipon and uses 1,000 times more energy than the average. We have all been hoodwinked into believing that one party represents us more than another, when in fact, they represent themselves only. Obama will not end the war. America itself will not end the war. In this ever shrinking world we live in, we need to do some ugly things in order to keep peace and security for ourselves. As Thomas Jefferson once said, "the tree of liberty must occasionaly be watered by the blood of tyrants." Unfortunately we are so diluted by political affiliations we can no longer call things for what they are. Amazing considering the generation that is now in charge. They have become everything they thought they were fighting against only worse. We cant say aything bad about Obama because he is the new messiah who isnt afraid to tell us whatever it is we want to hear.

Thadius -> RE: Barack Obama purges Web site critique of surge in Iraq (7/21/2008 9:52:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy quote: Spending is the problem, not tax cuts. Do you realize that in the past 28 years, tax cuts have tended to spur spending whereas tax hikes have tended to produce lower spending. SO I am supposed to support tax hikes because they will lead to lower spending? Why not expect lower taxes and lower spending? Hold them all accountable for the ear marks and non essential spending. Then again I suppose you also favor the proposed dime hike in the federal gas tax. I am for lowering taxes and lowering spending, I don't care who is in office if they can do that, as long as they meet the Constitutional requirements. But back to the topic at hand for a quickie, Obama is trying to distance himself from the positions he has been shouting from every soapbox he comes near, here's a great blog by vets about the "surge" and Obama's position. quote: http://www.vetsforfreedom.org/troopblog/blogitem.aspx?id=458 When the president announced his plans for the surge in his 2007 State of the Union address, you scoffed: “I am not persuaded that 20,000 additional troops in Iraq is going to solve the sectarian violence there. In fact, I think it will do the reverse.” A year ago this week, only one month into the surge, you made this bold and completely erroneous statement: "Here's what we know. The surge has not worked." Last November on “Meet the Press,” you said, “not only have we not seen improvements, but we're actually worsening, potentially, a situation there,” and stated: “I would end this war, and I would have the troops out within 16 months.” On March 19, 2008, in Fayetteville, North Carolina, you stated that upon becoming President you would “immediately begin to remove our troops.” Today, everyone knows the surge has worked — even John Murtha and Hillary Clinton have admitted it. You consistently claim to have the judgment to lead our great nation, Senator Obama; now it’s time to use that judgment and acknowledge reality.

Breakherman -> RE: Barack Obama purges Web site critique of surge in Iraq (7/21/2008 9:56:50 PM)
I laughed when I saw bush change the way he walked and talked 2 weeks after 9-11 into the ape man. I was saddened to see how our news coverage a month after the iraq war started became a propaganda machine and how the bbc news about the war was taken off of pbs. And I just shake my head when I watch clips like this http://www.johnmccain.com/videolanding/documentary.htm documenting obamas change of stance on the surge in iraq I was just emaild. What is the deal with obama telling reporters not to use his middle name nor ask about his family. And would it not be funny if we actually went back and read what peter arnett said at the beginning of the latest iraq war and how he was black balled for it

Alumbrado -> RE: Barack Obama purges Web site critique of surge in Iraq (7/21/2008 9:57:23 PM)
This pretty much sums it all up... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adc3MSS5Ydc

Thadius -> RE: Barack Obama purges Web site critique of surge in Iraq (7/21/2008 10:06:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Alumbrado This pretty much sums it all up... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adc3MSS5Ydc Exactly, and I love the Jib Jab productions...

popeye1250 -> RE: Barack Obama purges Web site critique of surge in Iraq (7/21/2008 10:46:57 PM)
As a Military Veteran and a former Federal Law Enforcement Officer (FLEO) BARAK OBAMA can lick my "t'aint." He'll never be elected. And as for ":ALUMBRADO" who claims that the UNINED STATES COAST GUARD is not a "FEDERAL LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY" who have power of ENFORCEMENT* ******shit! Alumbrado; nice in AMERICA with OUR LAWS ***eh??? YOU DON'T LIKE IT, ........................................................................

cloudboy -> RE: Barack Obama purges Web site critique of surge in Iraq (7/22/2008 6:26:22 AM)
First of all, I mangled my sentence up there. But I think when an entire party follows either a "yes" or a "no" vote --- its a moment of contrast. You keep saying there is no difference between the parties. I'm saying there are meaningful differences. I'm also saying that your POV rarely spots anything hopeful. You are somewhat good at impeachment, but not so hot at delineating preferable alternatives.

cloudboy -> RE: Barack Obama purges Web site critique of surge in Iraq (7/22/2008 6:36:08 AM)
quote: I am for lowering taxes and lowering spending, I don't care who is in office if they can do that, as long as they meet the Constitutional requirements. You must be beyond disappointed. As for the Surge, I've said my peace on that. Now what? At least Obama realizes we can't be in IRAQ forever. I agree with him. Its not fiscally possible to keep this up for another 5-10 years. Its also a drain on our forces. Our mission over there has been a failure. The reasons for it were lies. The war was executed in a criminally negligent manner. Now 2 million IRAQs are refugees and IRAN is the new Sheriff in town. Oil prices have sky rocketed. We are in recession. What is going to give?

Thadius -> RE: Barack Obama purges Web site critique of surge in Iraq (7/22/2008 8:46:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy quote: I am for lowering taxes and lowering spending, I don't care who is in office if they can do that, as long as they meet the Constitutional requirements. You must be beyond disappointed. As for the Surge, I've said my peace on that. Now what? At least Obama realizes we can't be in IRAQ forever. I agree with him. Its not fiscally possible to keep this up for another 5-10 years. Its also a drain on our forces. Our mission over there has been a failure. The reasons for it were lies. The war was executed in a criminally negligent manner. Now 2 million IRAQs are refugees and IRAN is the new Sheriff in town. Oil prices have sky rocketed. We are in recession. What is going to give? First, we are not in a recession, there hasn't been 2 quarters of negative growth. Simple economics. Oil has come down almost $20 a barrel since Bush lifted the presidential moratorium on off shore drilling... it rose a bit yesterday with worries that Dolly was going to hit the refineries in the Gulf. As of me writing this oil is down another $5 a barrel today. The fed announced it will be raising interest rates later this year, which has also strengthened the dollar a bit; but then again what do I know. You think that Iran is the new sheriff over there, and you are happy with that thought? If you think things are fucked right now, I can only imagine how you are gonna feel if Iran is allowed to take over in Iraq. I know you and Obama can keep to your "perspectives" of why the surge is a failure. His tap dancing at that press conference in Jordan today, was fun to watch... I can't wait to see the various spins that come out of it. Oh and why hasn't it been reported widely that the Sunni have rejoined the national government this weekend? It must have something to do with there not being enough safety in the country for there to be political progress...

popeye1250 -> RE: Barack Obama purges Web site critique of surge in Iraq (7/22/2008 1:00:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Alumbrado quote: ORIGINAL: Caitlyn What about people on this board ... people we can really only know via a few words on a board, subject to the limitation of their communications skills? quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 Wow! Barak Osama Obama as "President?" I don't Think so! I hate REPUBLICANS (because they're not CONSERVATIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!) But this little fucking cunt...... I rest my case.... feel free to defend whatever viewpoints you hold near and dear, and whatever company you wish to be known by. Alumbrado, you denigrate the very people who put their lives on the line to defend YOU! (USCG) And you claim to be "an advocate" for people who are in our country illegally! Shame on you.

cloudboy -> RE: Barack Obama purges Web site critique of surge in Iraq (7/22/2008 4:30:03 PM)
What follows the surge? Glad to know you don't think we're in recession. How much more do we keep borrowing from China? When will the US ever address its energy needs from the demand side of the equation? Speaking of surges, why did we need one several (3-4) years after the Bush Administration claimed "Mission Accomplished?" quote: Meanwhile, the Fed sat back and watched as Wall Street’s financial wizards engineered diabolically complicated investments linked to mortgages, generating huge amounts of speculative capital that turned real estate into a conflagration. Gotta love that beautifully self regulated free market.

Alumbrado -> RE: Barack Obama purges Web site critique of surge in Iraq (7/22/2008 5:01:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy First of all, I mangled my sentence up there. But I think when an entire party follows either a "yes" or a "no" vote --- its a moment of contrast. You keep saying there is no difference between the parties. I'm saying there are meaningful differences. I'm also saying that your POV rarely spots anything hopeful. You are somewhat good at impeachment, but not so hot at delineating preferable alternatives. I'd love to see these 'meaningful differences', but given your avoidance of the points I've raised repeatedly (did you ever follow the lobbyists, the money, the corruption, or the dead bodies and see which party has a monopoly on either?), I don't think there are any. And as far as trying to find something 'hopeful' in the cavalcade of partial psychopaths stripping the populace of their money, freedom, standard of living, and so forth, I'm definitely not that Pollyannaesque. I'll stick to pragmatism, over jingoism any day.

cloudboy -> RE: Barack Obama purges Web site critique of surge in Iraq (7/22/2008 5:41:20 PM)
I addressed the lobbyists, the money, and the dead bodies. You dismissed my reply. Here we are.

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