CreativeDominant
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Joined: 3/11/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: subtee
Recently there have been a couple of threads indicating a type of manipulation on the part of a sub-type; “testing” or some other exploit in the interest of weeding out less than desirable Dominants. I’m not going to go into that because I can’t really get my mind around it…
On the other side of the kneel, I’ve read, and have heard in my own experience, the sentiment that Dominants have a concern that they are somehow viewed as “weak” or less than Dominant because of an expression or situation that seemed innocuous enough, but for whatever reason caused the Dominant to be less than sure of, well, the appearance minimally or validity in the extreme, of his or her dominance. Is this cyclical? Is there a causal relationship? May I ask you, what would cause a sub-type to go down the path of manipulation? How can this be a valid starting point for an interaction?
While I recognize Dominants are not hard-wired for absolute self-assuredness in all things, why would a Dominant worry about how the outward expression of his or her dominance is received?
Who is leading?
Rather an ironic post but it is a good, valid one. I'd like to start with a few quotes that I find pertinent...
From SimplyMichael: People "test" relationships because they need reassurance that their partner really does love them.
The healthy way is to say "I need X, we can compromise on how I get it but if you won't give me X, I will have to reevaluate the relationship"
From MidMichCowboy: If someone wants a serious discussion about the future, I'm ready to talk. If someone wants to play manipulative games ... they can go find some cock rooster to play with.
Note that both of the above stress the need for communication. I suppose that contact can take place via texts or emails but I'd be willing to bet that most would agree with me that for a serious and fruitful discussion to take place, there has to be back and forth conversation ABOUT the topic at hand, with the submissive not manipulating by directing it to other areas or by being deliberately obfuscative with her answers to direct questions or statements.
From treasureKY: As for whether this is a good way to start a relationship... I wouldn't think so, but if it works for them, more power to them.
I would add that it is not a good thing to do at any point in a relationship...beginning, middle or even, if it comes down to it...the end. It has been discussed in other threads and I hold the belief that nothing moves forward without both parties being fair and open.
From CrazyC:
ORIGINAL: subtee
Is this cyclical? Is there a causal relationship? May I ask you, what would cause a sub-type to go down the path of manipulation? How can this be a valid starting point for an interaction?
I guess if you are having a business contract then testing someone out would be fine. I understand that we have dreams of what the perfect dom is, but if we want a real relationship then we need to come to a point were we accept the person with their good points and bad. I always see people who "test" out doms as someone who is either nieve, or she is so full of herself that she wouldn't be able to love the dom for who he is but more of what her fantacy is.
While I recognize Dominants are not hard-wired for absolute self-assuredness in all things, why would a Dominant worry about how the outward expression of his or her dominance is received?
Because they are human.
From LadyHibiscus: I am who I am, and that does not mean that I am perfect in every situation.
From SurrenderForMe: A dominant can have things go wrong in their life, be insecure, or have moments of uncertainty. This goes back to not seeing the dominant as a person. Everyone has weaknesses, but there are some who don't believe that a dominant is allowed any. If the overall situation is that the dominant is indecisive, then maybe they are new or have mis-identified themself.
From Owner4SexSlave: The fact remains, we are all human, we all have our share of flaws and faults. D/s for many people has become over idealized at times in a fantasy mindset. Reality slips from some people about the human aspects.
I think that the points noted in bold above are very important. We all have good and bad points. For example, I try to be honest. On rare occasions I fail and have discussed this within the last couple of months on other threads. I see shades of gray where others see only black and white and I do so because I know I am not perfect and I do not expect others to be. I keep striving while being accepting of myself and patient and understanding of others. Standards are a fine thing to have...hold whatever standards you wish, be it fidelity and capable of giving affection and honesty and loyalty and fairness and an ability to be financially responsible BUT... be able to apply those same standards to yourself. If you expect someone to be 100% honest but then you make promises and don't keep them, then you are not being honest either. If you expect someone to have a savings plan in place but you spend each dollar that comes into your hands on "necessities" like nail polish or $ 100.00 hairdos, then you are not being financially responsible.
From CruelDesires:
ORIGINAL: subtee
As for my questions regarding Doms and their concerns about appearing and/or seeming weak, my questions was sparked by situations such as this: I was interested in a sub and so kept emailing her while she didn't always answer. Does this make me seem weak?
They are JUST as clueless IMO. A. I see it as a waste of time. B. Why keep banging your head against a wall? It serves no purpose and just shows other people how needy or desperate you may be. Desperation is not a dominant attitude in one iota.
I disagree. It depends on what the dominant is seeking and where the relationship is. If it is a dominant chasing a brand new submissive, then yes, it can seem desperate. If it is a relationship that has been building or is built, then if he is begging for him/her to come back to him/her, telling the submissive that they will give up everything to please the submissive...I agree. But if he/she has invested time and feelings into this relationship and is writing him/her with the purpose of maintaining communication and/or calling him/her on bullshit in a manner that does not denigrate but is straightforward, and/or calling on him/her to be fair and to treat the dominant in the same manner that they would wish to be treated, then I do not see that as desperation. Some of us believe in the idea that nothing gets resolved without communication. It is often said on here that no contact is a resolution but, if we look inside ourselves and ask...would I want to be treated that way, especially by someone that I have been dealing with for quite awhile?...and the answer comes back as "No, I wouldn't", then just running away and not making contact is NOT resolution.
Finally, from treasureKy:
Who is leading?
Well... I'd say that depends on who is following.
Here, here. And whether or not the one who is supposed to follow continues to do so in the way he/she promised.
It seems that for some submissives, they can be in the building of a relationship and then, when something comes up that the dominant did and they don't like or they get called on their behavior by the dominant...the same one that the submissive has been expecting to act in a dominant fashion and he has done so by apologizing for his behavior, not running away from it when called on it OR correcting them if they are at fault... they remind him that he is not "their" dominant yet and so, they don't have to follow his lead.
< Message edited by CreativeDominant -- 8/2/2008 1:01:21 PM >
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RE: Take Me to Your Leader - 
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