quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

Well Obama delivered his speech today in Berlin, to what police estimate as 200,000, which is his biggest concert to date.  Overall the speech was good, you could tell from his words he was attempting to mark it as a historical speech.  The recurring theme was a comparison to the airlifts after WWII.  With the continued reminder of this is the moment...  For a full transcript http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/07/24/raw-data-transcript-of-obamas-speech-in-berlin/ .  There were a few things that made me raise an eyebrow, so I figured I would share my thoughts, and hope to get your opinions.

"This is the moment when we must build on the wealth that opens markets have created and share its benefits more equitably. Trade has been a cornerstone of our growth and global development, but we will not be able to sustain this growth if it favors the few and not the many.
Together — together, we must forge trade that truly rewards the work that creates wealth, with meaningful protections for our people and our planet. This is the moment for trade that is free and fair for all."

On this I will just let what CNN reported say it all.

quote:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/07/24/amanpour.obama/
The top EU trade official is already offering this caution to Obama on NAFTA: stop the crowd pleasing rhetoric, and be serious about U.S. commitment to free trade and unfettered markets.

"As we speak, cars in Boston and factories in Beijing are melting the ice caps in the Arctic, shrinking coastlines in the Atlantic, and bringing drought to farms from Kansas to Kenya."

I am not even sure I want to remark on this one, it pretty much speaks for itself... Hey you Bostonians, think of us that enjoy food, and stop driving.

"No one welcomes war. I recognize the enormous difficulties in Afghanistan. But my country and yours have a stake in seeing that NATO’s first mission beyond Europe’s borders is a success. For the people of Afghanistan, and for our shared security, the work must be done.
America can’t do this alone. The Afghan people need our troops and your troops, our support and your support to defeat the Taliban and Al Qaida, to develop their economy, and to help them rebuild their nation. We have too much at stake to turn back now."

While I agree with him that we need to help secure Afghanistan, for all of those reasons... Isn't there just as much at stake in Iraq?  Perhaps even more, including the obvious strategic oil implications?  Where would the Iraqis be if we had followed Obama's policies?  The thought of it scares me.


"The genocide in Darfur shames the conscience of us all..... Will we give meaning to the words “never again” in Darfur?" 

What did he say last year?

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“Well, look, if that’s the criteria by which we are making decisions on the deployment of U.S. forces, then by that argument you would have 300,000 troops in the Congo right now — where millions have been slaughtered as a consequence of ethnic strife — which we haven’t done,” Obama said in an interview with The Associated Press.
“We would be deploying unilaterally and occupying the Sudan, which we haven’t done. Those of us who care about Darfur don’t think it would be a good idea,” he said.

I guess sometimes "never again" means not right now.  At what point does he think we should step in and stop Genocide?  What does warrant the use of the military for humanitarian reasons?

"But I come before you to say that we are heirs to a struggle for freedom. We are a people of improbable hope. With an eye towards the future, with resolve in our heart, let us remember this history, and answer our destiny, and remake the world once again."

quote:

http://www.rjchq.org/news.asp?FormMode=Detail&id=1330
"Senator Obama in Jordan today said that terrorism makes 'Israelis want to dig in and simply think about their own security regardless of what's going on beyond their borders.' What Senator Obama fails to recognize is that the safety and security of its citizenry is the primary obligation of a country's leadership.
In essence, Senator Obama is asking Israelis and the American Jewish community to put terrorism in context. Senator Obama continues his rhetoric of moral equivalence by implying that measures taken by Israel to protect its citizens are on par with the Palestinians' frustration at border checkpoints. Senator Obama's attempt at even-handed diplomacy fails to hold Palestinians accountable for using terrorist tactics against innocent Israeli citizens as a means to achieve their ends."

And finally,

"This is the moment when we must come together to save this planet. Let us resolve that we will not leave our children to a world where the oceans rise, and famine spreads, and terrible storms devastate our lands."

I am glad that Obama thinks that we can stop all of those things from happening, this all must be part of his proposed research into new technologies.  I can't wait for the day that we have a technology to stop terrible storms from hitting land... Would this be some sort of dome?  I cannot fathom what fantasy he is living in, but how does he propose to stop tornadoes from touching down?  Perhaps it is part of his new math on casualties... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=185iI_nXYRY For the record there were 12 total deaths.

Well I will leave it like that for now, I look forward to the discussions, and lets at least keep it on topic (ie. the speach, policies and ideas mentioned in the speech, location of the speech, etc..)

I wish you all well,
Thadius

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ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

but reading the text of it- [the entire text is on huffington]   he is abit fixated on the past.   todays kids have no memory of 60 years ago.  that era has pasted.  the vets are dying off. 

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ORIGINAL: Owner59

Look deeper,the answer`s in my questions.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


You know he wasn`t asking Bostonians to stop driving.Now back to your pile of sand.

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ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

but reading the text of it- [the entire text is on huffington]   he is abit fixated on the past.   todays kids have no memory of 60 years ago.  that era has pasted.  the vets are dying off. 

We Americans have short memories.  Europeans have longer ones.  Obama's aim was to create as much good will with the Europeans as possible. 

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ORIGINAL: ShieldWolf

A political argument for the sake of scaring needlessly is hardly that impressive. Obama can mouthpiece this junk all he wishes along with Gore but there are too many doubts on this one and don't even get me started on some of what constitues "evidence" on this stuff.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

quote:

ORIGINAL: ShieldWolf

A political argument for the sake of scaring needlessly is hardly that impressive. Obama can mouthpiece this junk all he wishes along with Gore but there are too many doubts on this one and don't even get me started on some of what constitues "evidence" on this stuff.

No really,tell us about this "evidence you have.


"A political argument for the sake of scaring needlessly "

quote:

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24036736-7583,00.html 

3. The satellites that measure the world's temperature all say that the warming trend ended in 2001, and that the temperature has dropped about 0.6C in the past year (to the temperature of 1980). Land-based temperature readings are corrupted by the "urban heat island" effect: urban areas encroaching on thermometer stations warm the micro-climate around the thermometer, due to vegetation changes, concrete, cars, houses. Satellite data is the only temperature data we can trust, but it only goes back to 1979. NASA reports only land-based data, and reports a modest warming trend and recent cooling. The other three global temperature records use a mix of satellite and land measurements, or satellite only, and they all show no warming since 2001 and a recent cooling.

(snip)

The world has spent $50 billion on global warming since 1990, and we have not found any actual evidence that carbon emissions cause global warming. Evidence consists of observations made by someone at some time that supports the idea that carbon emissions cause global warming. Computer models and theoretical calculations are not evidence, they are just theory.

(snip)

The onus should be on those who want to change things to provide evidence for why the changes are necessary.

quote:

"free trade"

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ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

but reading the text of it- [the entire text is on huffington]   he is abit fixated on the past.   todays kids have no memory of 60 years ago.  that era has pasted.  the vets are dying off. 

Good point Dark!   

Did you notice how clean and shiney Berlin was?   Not a spec of dust.  No "ads"...very nice. Ild like to see Germany in person.

We Americans have short memories.  Europeans have longer ones.  Obama's aim was to create as much good will with the Europeans as possible. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

"As for you other question...  I feel the same about those tactics as I do about the Democrat scare tactics of suggesting food is being taken out of the mouths of hungry children because of tax breaks".

Got a link for that?

How about the Bush/neo-con suggestion that any effort to reduce pollution will negatively affect economies.

Which was dis-proven by Bush`s own people.

Remember the e-mail that the white house refused to open?

It was a report,done by Bush`s own people, that green house gasses could be reduced while still growing the economy.Something,btw,liberals have been saying and proved true,under Bill Clinton.

What about those scare tactics and the dis-honesty by Bush?

Upset?

quote:


"When you don't vote, you let another church explode. When you don't vote, you allow another cross to burn. When you don't vote, you let another assault wound a brother or sister. When you don't vote, you let the Republicans continue to cut school lunches and Head Start."

quote:

The Washington Post, Jan. 9, 1995 Page A6

The chairman of the National Governors' Association, Democratic Gov. Howard Dean of Vermont, yesterday ripped into the Republicans' welfare reform plan as a policy "to starve children and kick old people out of their houses" and attacked Republican governors in extraordinarily harsh language for helping to negotiate it.
"I think some of them think they've got a mandate to starve children, and they don't," Dean said. "We're going to beat them inside the NGA and in the Senate, if we can't beat them in the House."

quote:

Bob Burnett: via www.huffingtonpost.com
A hallmark of the Orwellian mind control practiced by the Bush Administration is to repeat a lie over and over until the public accepts it as the truth. The Bush propaganda machine has usurped the phrase "class warfare." Democrats must take it back and begin telling the truth about the treachery of this Presidency.

quote:

http://www.californiachronicle.com/articles/3473 

The GOP budget fails to reflect Northern Virginia's core values," stated Moran. "100 percent of the cuts are coming from programs that represent only 10 percent of the deficit while 90 percent of the deficit comes from tax cuts, the Iraq war and homeland security. These deep cuts in services vital to working class and low income families are immoral, unfair and shameful. The House Leadership claims that these spending cuts are to pay for Hurricane Katrina, but, in fact, all of these spending cuts are used to partially pay for extending the Bush tax cuts primarily benefiting the wealthiest in our society."