RE: In-House training? (Full Version)

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ButchFemDomCpl -> RE: In-House training? (7/25/2008 3:35:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

if I were born into a shoe store then i would already know how to run one...wouldn't I?
As most of us...i was born into a functioning household and when it was time to set up my own i already know how i would mimic the one i came from as well as change what i did not like.



I would think you would if you were born into it you would know how to run a BDSM House. :)   But Letherist didn't ask that, he asked "Can you learn to run a shoe store by visiting a kennel?"  

I said "No" because they arent the same.   People who were born into a BDSM house would probably have no interest in coming to stay in a House like I am suggesting.   Again, this would be for someone who wanted to expose themselves to different thoughts, consider things they may or may not have considered. 

Now you have Me curious, because from many of the posts I have read online, I dont recall seeing many from people who were born into a BDSM house.   I believe that children have no place in a BDSM house.  How did your parents do it?

Femme
ButchFemDomCpl





RedMagic1 -> RE: In-House training? (7/25/2008 3:41:39 PM)

Not saying you're wrong, Leatherist, but I don't see her trying to pick a fight here.  She's a new poster and people aren't all in love with an idea that excites her, so she's going defendo.

Femme, if you invoke the words "leather history" on this board, it's a good idea to be sure you know what you're talking about.  Some of the top authorities in the world post here (I'm not one of them.), and you'll get caught if you play it loose.

What, concretely, would you be offering?  A program of events, for example.



monywildcat -> RE: In-House training? (7/25/2008 3:55:48 PM)

Hrm, I think that this is a VERY interesting concept.  It certainly looks good on paper!  [image]http://www.collarchat.com/micons/m11.gif[/image]

But seriously, this is an excellent idea not just for folk interested in learning more about a 24/7 lifestyle, a d/s relationship, whatever the hell name you want to slap on the situation.  I'm not good with labels.  I'm worse with people's names.  But, I digress.  While yes, those people vacationing would only see the inner workings of ONE particular household, they would still get the broad strokes.  To expand their knowledge they would need to visit a couple of other households as well.  Then they could fine-tune what they have learned, tweak things to their preferences, and all that good stuff.  I understand completely the argument that "i want my house run MY way" or "i don't want to be trained to someone else's specifications, I want to be trained by my master/dom/whatever" for someone that would have no point of reference, such a vacation home, or workshop, could very well be beneficial.  Like a marriage or a couple's workshop.  With rope and riding crops. 

See, my way of thinking is, that I grew up in a traditional, dad goes to work and mom stays home, kind of household.  I never witnessed a house that was run with two full-time breadwinners, how did they compromise on what portions of whose paychecks pay what bills, did they collaborate on grocery lists or did one person dictate what goes into the pantry, and all sorts of things.  So, I see the potential value in this sort of concept.  The vacation lifestyle house, with the purpose of educating those that have never witnessed such a household in operation before.  I, for one, would be willing to participate.  But only if there is a pool.  And some beer.   



ButchFemDomCpl -> RE: In-House training? (7/25/2008 3:55:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

Femme, if you run a search on the words "mentor" and "training," you'll see that you've stepped in the middle of a minefield, with what I believe to be an honest, well-intentioned opening post.

If you scheduled a series of demos and hands-on classes, and kept the preachy-preachy to a minimum, I'd be interested.  Otherwise, well -- I'm a vegetarian, don't wear or buy leather... and even so, there's a decent chance I've read more of the Leather Archives than you have.  What would you offer that would be of practical worth to me in my own life?


Hello and thanks for posting.

I thought it was a well-intentioned opening post.  *shrug*  It seems that there is nothing but negative responses.  I have done demo's and hands-on classes for years.  My classes used to be STO.  Then My slave died.  I walked away for a few years to recover.  I am back again and happy with My life.  I've thought of doing the same sort of demo's and hands-on classes, but the thought that kept niggling in My mind is the questions people asked then of "How do you add this into your play?" were ringing in the back of My mind.   At that time I thought it would be great to open My House and let others in, AND give them information on how others run their houses. 

If you are running your own House, you may learn from what I am doing, you may not.  What most people miss.. is that even when you learn what you DONT want to do, in that learning, you learn what you DO want.   Does that make sense? 

Also.. if you had a Dominant that was a novice, it may help Her/Him to have a period of time where you can see a socialization with others in a more secure and closed environment than what would happen in a dungeon or other Leather event.   Everyone gets out of things what they wish, and what they put into it.    If someone with an open mind wanted to improve the dynamics within their relationship and didnt know how, there is a possiblity of what I am suggesting would be of help to them.

This is an educational idea.  It is not the first of its kind.  I know there is a lot to read in the Leather Archives, and even I continue to educate Myself.   I firmly believe that there is NEVER an end to Education.   What I am offering here is not My own "pat on the back," but to offer to others what was given to Me throughout the years.   I currently Own one slave who was a Dominant for many years who now serves as a slave.   In consideration to Service is another slave who has been a slave for many years in a household that you truly would have heard of if I mentioned it.  Both of these dyke boi's have taught numerous classes on different topics.  Their interest is purely to help other slaves and submissives learn to serve their Owners/Masters/Tops/Mistresses to the very best of their ablity. 

Knowledge IS power.   I am offering Power.

There is no right or wrong.   Its simply a window to Power.

Femme
ButchFemDomCpl




barefootgal -> RE: In-House training? (7/25/2008 3:58:12 PM)

As a newbie with a newbie partner, this is an intriguing concept. It's easy for someone with a lot of experience to say "I'll set up my household the way I want it" or "my Dom will tell me what he wants" but when you've only just started to explore a D/s relationship, you don't necessarily know what you want... or even what the options are... not to mention the logistics behind the options.

I know that my husband was hesitant about expressing -- or even identifying -- what he wanted until we attended a weekend seminar last winter. After we had taken some classes, seen some public play, and spoken individually with a variety of folks, it helped to clarify a lot for him and things have  progressed much more smoothly for us.

A couple questions: Would you only welcome couples? Would a couple have to be planning a 24/7 household, or could it be more of a "fantasy weekend" getaway kinda thing? How would you screen for that?

BFG



ButchFemDomCpl -> RE: In-House training? (7/25/2008 4:08:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

This is silly.

And one of my pet peeves with plagarists. The leatherman scene was set up for gay men to have leathersex. And More than one ACTUAL old guard person (Like Guy Baldwin) has made it perfectly clear that if you are NOT a gay man practicing leather sex, and who had his leathers handed down from a daddy IN that scene-connecting yourself to them is simply contemptuous.

You didn't earn ANYTHING.

I have done a LOT of research on this group, and I can cite refferences to this effect. It's not for straight men-it's not for ANY woman. They would have had nothing to do with you.

So quit claiming lineage from them, because all that is, is a cheap rip off of what they WERE.

And it's disrespectful.



Disrespectful?   I NEVER claimed LINEAGE!  My profile states I LIKE Old Guard, but NO WHERE do I claim to be "Old Guard"... geez.... I'm a dyke, for gods sake!   Not only that, I know what the Old Guard represents, and it was NOT just "swinging gay men"... ask Guy Baldwin.  They looked out for each other, much like the Hells Angels of the 1990's did here in Las Vegas.  Guy Baldwin compares Old Guard to Motorcycle clubs!!

BUT the leathermen MADE IT POSSIBLE for others (like YOU) to find each other!     I PERSONALLY know of at least ONE woman who in the 1970's was taken in by a TRUE LeatherMEN couple  (GAY MEN... get it?) and taught traditions, honor, and Integrity (sp?).   NO.. we couldn't go into their bars, unless invited.  In San Francisco many DYKES were invited.    I grew up in Northern Calif.  The Eagle in San Francisco, and Folsom Street Fair, were gay events that were opened to the het community of leather folk in the 1980s.   BTW.. as far as Guy Baldwin goes.. in the 80's, he was just another gay man in leather!  lol.. I was there!   No disrespect to Guy, he's written some great books and articles, and his writings on Old Guard are wholey correct! 

So.. now you tell Me that *I* am being "disrespectful"?   Yet in your posts past, they have been extremely disrespectful and discourteous.  Nice. 

Further posts from you will be dismissed. 

I never have claimed to know everything about Leather, nor would I.  BUT... I know what I know.

Femme
HMSC - Ago Tergus.



sirsholly -> RE: In-House training? (7/25/2008 4:13:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ButchFemDomCpl

quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

if I were born into a shoe store then i would already know how to run one...wouldn't I?
As most of us...i was born into a functioning household and when it was time to set up my own i already know how i would mimic the one i came from as well as change what i did not like.



I would think you would if you were born into it you would know how to run a BDSM House. :)   But Letherist didn't ask that, he asked "Can you learn to run a shoe store by visiting a kennel?"  

I said "No" because they arent the same.   People who were born into a BDSM house would probably have no interest in coming to stay in a House like I am suggesting.   Again, this would be for someone who wanted to expose themselves to different thoughts, consider things they may or may not have considered. 

Now you have Me curious, because from many of the posts I have read online, I dont recall seeing many from people who were born into a BDSM house.   I believe that children have no place in a BDSM house.  How did your parents do it?

Femme
ButchFemDomCpl





i should have make this clear. The household i grew up in was very vanilla (my parents may have had a kink. If they did...i don't want to know). My point is when i married i knew how to set up a household...knew how to delegate various tasks, knew how to preform time management, etc. and still have the time and energy (hopefully both at the same time) for nutering our relationship.
You re speaking of a poly household and i have done that also with two adult step-children. At first it was utter, totally chaos and what it took was time. I doubt it would have helped to view how others mananged as what was needed was learning about each other. It worked out very well.



CorsetMinx -> RE: In-House training? (7/25/2008 4:14:21 PM)

I think mentoring is a fabulous idea for new people to the bdsm lifestyle. While I agree with others here that bringing someone into your 24/7 TPE house may not be the absolute best way to mentor as your house is unique to you and your family. I think, as with any discipline (woodworking, medicine, whatever) that aprenticeship and mentoring is a wonderful way to learn.

The old guard with with knowledge takes the newbie under their wing and gives them an anchor to hold onto. To feel safe in their explorations. Someone to give them advice, guidance and learn basic protocols. Hell, just learning what all the unique terminology for each kink, toy, play apparatus, etc is half the battle, lol. But I think Doms should stick to mentoring other Doms and subs to subs in a one on one relationship, or community groups of Dom to Dom and sub to sub.

I love the fact that the dungeon society I just joined has a group just for subbies to talk to other subbies. It's something I wish I would have known about and had gotten plugged into from my first steps into bdsm. I may not have walked into some of the mistakes I did if I'd had someone to caution me. But better late than never and it's one of the things that I love about my new community.

I think if you or someone else in your household had a one on one mentoring relationship already with a newbie, then brought them into your house for a weekend for a "look-see", after explaining that there are many differences in households and yours is just one option or example of a spectrum broad as the rainbow, then I think that instance could be a good learning experience. But if it were a general sort of bdsm B&B for people to see/experience 24/7 TPE, then I'd say it's probably not the best solution for the concept. But that's only my opinion. I'm sure there are other people that might absolutely love the idea. Those are my thoughts on it.

Good idea to ponder, for sure BFDC! Thanks for bringing it up.



DesFIP -> RE: In-House training? (7/25/2008 4:19:51 PM)

When you take someone new into your house, do you find they are fully trained at tea service, or boot blacking, or whatever skill you are offering in only one week's time?

Because that's all the time most people have on a vacation. And actually with travel time, it's less.
What could you teach someone who only had a weekend? What kind of skill could you impart from 9-5 on Saturday and Sunday?

Because unless you can break down the skill into steps easily enough mastered that one could do this in two, or five eight hour days, nobody would pay for it. I suggest you look into Butchman's Academy in Arizona where they do know how to teach effectively in the small amounts of time most people can give to this. It is not good of you to require someone to pay you a large amount of money for a week's training in a skill and have them come away feeling badly about themselves thinking they are a bad s type when the reality of it is that you are an incompetent teacher.



RedMagic1 -> RE: In-House training? (7/25/2008 4:25:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ButchFemDomCpl
This is an educational idea.  It is not the first of its kind. 

I agree that there are other resources already in place.  For example, MasterFireMaam recently published this book.
http://www.amazon.com/Manual-Creation-Defining-Structure-Household/dp/1887895817/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1217027624&sr=8-1

In a competitive market, it would probably help you to decide what is special, different, and useful about what you do.  I don't see that well-articulated yet.

Also, I must admit, responding to contrary opinions by reacting defensively, instead of viewing them as an opportunity to educate or learn, does not strike me as a good way to advertise your status as master of yourself, or others.



Surrenderwithin -> RE: In-House training? (7/25/2008 4:41:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ButchFemDomCpl

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shawn1066

My only question is...  What would they learn except how your house is run?   And I imagine your 24/7 household is different from most other 24/7 households as well...there's no "one size fits all" type thing that I'm sure you're aware of.  If you plan on teaching them various ways to play safely, then I could see how that'd be helpful...but otherwise I'm not sure I see what you'd be offering.

The idea is interesting, I'd just like to see some more details.

DV's Fox


Good question.  My thoughts were that the people who came to the house were given (for lack of a better word) a set of worksheets.   In these worksheets would ask questions and give situations that should be addressed in ANY 24/7 relationship.  There are a vast many ways to deal with the a myraid of simple things, let alone the majors.  

Here was My idea of a typical question that many mundane's might not consider in the worksheets:
As far as the daily living, there are MANY ways to get medical insurance for a 24/7 slave.  How do you plan to get medical care for your slave?  At Our House, we do... blah blah blah. 

The idea is to put forth many many open-ended questions that the couple would refect on and answer between the two of them.  What I would show is how those same questions are answered in MY house. The idea I had is to open people's minds to ALL the aspects they need to consider.  I wouldnt be putting forth that House of Moriah St Cyr is the best out there, but HMSC is just one way to do things.  Often when people are putting together their House documents there are things they miss.  My goal is to have  a community of DS Houses that have one thing in common.. and thats Domination. How they put their own Houses together will be very different in each incident.

Some people want to experience what it means, especially if they have not experienced anything like this previously.  This offers them a type of mentorship, both while they are here, and once they leave.  While they are here, the submissive will be taught different forms of service, and the types of that service they are taught would reflect on the questions they answered before arriving in HMSC. 

For example: Master So&So wants his slave to learn formal dinner service.  Master has never been to a formal dinner service and is unable to direct slave as to how He wants this task performed.  Master will learn what he wants, and doesnt want, during formal service.  Slave/submissive will learn everything HMSC has to offer in this area.  The couple is then able to pick and choose what they want to keep in their House and what they want to jettison.  This is just one example of different things that can be taught within just one House. 

If this works out, then newcommers would have a choice of Houses they would want to go to.  They may want to go to one, they may want to go to several.  My goal, again, is to have a community of SM houses.  I want to be just one House in the community.   We are all different, but bound by the same interest of BDSM. 

Femme
ButchFemDomCpl


I realize I am playing the devils advocate here but couldn't these worksheets or questions be published on a website someplace and me available as a resource to so many more people than the proposed situation?



Surrenderwithin -> RE: In-House training? (7/25/2008 4:45:13 PM)


[/quote]

Correct.  No two vanilla houses are the same. I wouldnt suggest that they were.  Unlike vanilla and Domination Houses, people do not go to a vanilla house to have someone make their beds or to cook, clean and serve them.... well.. unless they are going to visit their mothers....
[/quote]

A few months ago I visited a bed and breakfast. It was in someones home... and I got all of those services and more....






Surrenderwithin -> RE: In-House training? (7/25/2008 4:52:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ButchFemDomCpl

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

I can personally see no use in exploring an alien M/s enviornment.

If I am incapable of managing another person in my own household-how could I possibly expect another to teach me? Especially if they were of a totally different organizational and orientation bent?

I know exactly the way I want my house and affairs kept in order. The only fine tuning would come from on the job training-just like any other sort of job.

Can you learn to run a shoe store by visiting a kennel?


Sorry to hear you are unwilling to learn more and open to learning more.
You do realise that much of the leather movement was started by gay men?  With this said, I am extremely curious to know how you learned to put your house together if you were unwilling to learn from those that are a "different orientation bent?"  (TGIQ)

If you know how you want your house and affairs kept, why bother posting negative comments?  Often relationships blow up because of lack of communication BEFORE the slave moves in.  How do you show a slave/sub what life can be like in what would be considered a very secure environment? 

It would be stupid to think you can learn to run a shoe store from visiting a kennel.  Dogs are not made into shoes. Or is this something you do in the House you run?   If so.. no wonder you arent interested in learning different ideas, new ways, and different House protocols! 

On the other hand, you CAN go to one shoe store, see how they set up their inventory, find out how they advertise, find out how they set up their front office, see what uniforms they wear, find out what their customer service requirements are, then go back to the confines of YOUR cozy shoe store and decide what works for you, and what doesnt.  


Femme
ButchFemDomCpl




He did not say that he was unwilling to learn and gain knowledge he merely choose not to drink from one particular well of learning. That doesnt mean that he would neglect education all together.

Just because he does not think that you have anything to offer him because your orientation is different than his is not a negative thing about you or your choice, merely his feelings. Perhaps he sees what you do as foreign to him as shoes would be to a puppy dog. Just because you stand under the same umbrella of BDSM as he does... You may not even be in the same storm.

If his house is working for him and his as it is why change. Why re-invent the wheel or fix what isnt broken. I do not believe that everyone needs to be taught how to do what works for them. For some people, it is just known and comes from a deep place within.



ButchFemDomCpl -> RE: In-House training? (7/25/2008 4:54:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: monywildcat

Hrm, I think that this is a VERY interesting concept.  It certainly looks good on paper!  [image]http://www.collarchat.com/micons/m11.gif[/image]

But seriously, this is an excellent idea not just for folk interested in learning more about a 24/7 lifestyle, a d/s relationship, whatever the hell name you want to slap on the situation.  I'm not good with labels.  I'm worse with people's names.  But, I digress.  While yes, those people vacationing would only see the inner workings of ONE particular household, they would still get the broad strokes.  To expand their knowledge they would need to visit a couple of other households as well.  Then they could fine-tune what they have learned, tweak things to their preferences, and all that good stuff.  I understand completely the argument that "i want my house run MY way" or "i don't want to be trained to someone else's specifications, I want to be trained by my master/dom/whatever" for someone that would have no point of reference, such a vacation home, or workshop, could very well be beneficial.  Like a marriage or a couple's workshop.  With rope and riding crops. 

See, my way of thinking is, that I grew up in a traditional, dad goes to work and mom stays home, kind of household.  I never witnessed a house that was run with two full-time breadwinners, how did they compromise on what portions of whose paychecks pay what bills, did they collaborate on grocery lists or did one person dictate what goes into the pantry, and all sorts of things.  So, I see the potential value in this sort of concept.  The vacation lifestyle house, with the purpose of educating those that have never witnessed such a household in operation before.  I, for one, would be willing to participate.  But only if there is a pool.  And some beer.   


YES!  Thats *exactly* what I was thinking! 



ButchFemDomCpl -> RE: In-House training? (7/25/2008 5:02:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP
It is not good of you to require someone to pay you a large amount of money for a week's training in a skill and have them come away feeling badly about themselves thinking they are a bad s type when the reality of it is that you are an incompetent teacher.


Please provide the post that says I would be charging a "large amount of money"?   This post was to ask "What do you think of entering a 24/7 lifestyle house for a weekend training?  This posting wasnt about raising funds, it was about education.

Femme




OldBastardly1 -> RE: In-House training? (7/25/2008 5:08:32 PM)

You mean it would be free?



ProtagonistLily -> RE: In-House training? (7/25/2008 5:15:30 PM)

~I'm quick posting without reading the comments first~

interesting concept, but I have a few questions....

quote:

In our current community in Las Vegas there has been a great deal of discussion about training, or the lack thereof. A local group has started up to help mentor those who are new to Las Vegas. I applaud their ideas. They are looking to have more mentors enter their group and help new people. My House is a 24/7 lifestyle house. I have often wondered if there would be people interested in living in a 24/7 lifestyle house as a vacation. There are SO many things that happen in a 24/7 lifestyle house, that it would take more than 24 hours to describe everything.

Right, and my house is a 24/7 lifestyle house. Because of this, would the training styles be identical? Would my mannerism and behavior be what you are looking for? Would you look upon my training as inferior because I may not live up to your standards?

My point here is, it's rather presumptuous to expect that just because you run YOUR house in a particular way and deem it a 24/7 lifestyle house, that all who prescribe to a 24/7 house will have the kind of training you are advocating. This is a chicken/egg argument. There is nothing standardized in todays BDSM realm. Anyone who says so's full of crap.

Now, that isn't to say that your house isn't legitimate. I'm sure it is, and I admire anyone who's interested in sharing their training system. However, if someone is differantly trained than what you deem acceptable, that doesn't make them illegitimate as a 24/7 lifestyler in the same respect.

quote:

In My musings, I thought that it would be good to offer a place for training for both the Sub/Slave and Domina/Dom. In that manner, people who were new, either tops or bottoms would see first-hand the workings and intricacies of life in a 24/7 house. It seems to Me that a great deal of novices, tops or bottoms engage with someone who is experienced. I thought that I would toss this out here, just to see what others may bring up as considerations that I may have overlooked. All comments welcomed. :)

What are your credentials? What makes you someone who's able to teach to the masses? I'm not trying to be argumentative, but again, it seems a bit arrogant to me that you have deemed your house some kind of role model Mecca and such that you are thinking of starting some kind of training program. I'm just curious as to what makes you qualified to run such a program?

And honestly, why would you want to? For those who are interested in slavery, who are in committed relationships where this M/s element is part of what it is they do, why would this be practical? Wouldn't the Dominant person in the equation know what kind of slave they wanted and take responsibility to train them thusly?

And I really have to wonder if we aren't talking apples and oranges here anyway. You mentioned that you've encountered a lack of training in the Vegas area, and feel that by opening yourselves up to be teachers, you could fill some kind of void. But the reality of my experiences in the scene are, there are just some people who are meat puppets, who are here for the tactile experience and the cheap thrill and have no intensions of ever modeling their behavior in a way that would smack of leather lifestyle or slavery or are interested in M/s or even D/s relationships. For me, it's been at times a struggle to realize this, and once I realized this, it freed me up to focus on myself and what I had to offer, instead of cluttering my head with stuff that I can't control and really have no business worrying about.

My two duckets,
PL




ThundersCry -> RE: In-House training? (7/25/2008 5:24:27 PM)

I think you have a great idea...
 
and...
 
Can see it working for you and those comming...
 
Is there a need for something like this?
 
Of course...
 
Welcome to the boards...
 



PrincessDonna -> RE: In-House training? (7/25/2008 5:31:27 PM)

Have you read East Of Eden by Anne Rice??You might get some understanding there as to putting your plan in motion.



ProtagonistLily -> RE: In-House training? (7/25/2008 5:32:56 PM)

Jesus there's a lot of meat on the bone here....

Ok, I've caught up to the rest of the convo now, and I have a few things to add.

This, inherently, isn't a bad idea. However, I'm not so sure that the initial concept is going to work so well.

If you believe you have something to offer others who are interested in a more M/s oriented household why not start a MaST group or another M/s discussion group? People tend to dig those more than any boot camp kind of situations, and that's how your idea sort of hits me.

If your intent here is to educate, to be able to bring about some opportunities for growth and change for those who are interested in pursuing an M/s relationship or for those who are in one who are interested in meeting others and exchanging ideas, I'd think that a discussion group or a MaST group would be ideal. I have found that M/s issues aren't really discussed in the 'scene' so much and it's nice to have a smaller group to do it in.

Best of luck,
PL



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