RE: In-House training? (Full Version)

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MadRabbit -> RE: In-House training? (7/26/2008 8:31:57 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

I think training in basic interpersonal communication would benefit most.  The difference between a "you" statement and an "I" statement for example, or how to spot passive aggressive behavior for instance.  How to mirror back statements is another good one, that would help many people.  Learning how to ask for basic needs to be met and how to listen and respond to that request in a contructive way are also skills many lack


Michael offers free online lessons of how to spot passive aggressive behavior all the time, subtly using his own posts as examples for all of us to learn from. [:D]

Sorry, just couldn't pass that one up [:)] 




undergroundsea -> RE: In-House training? (7/26/2008 9:26:14 AM)

quote:

ButchFemDomCpl


I think the basic idea behind what you suggest has merit--that by seeing other relationship models people can take away ideas to form their relationship model. I have seen this type of information exchange occur in communities via discussions (organized and organic) and via social interaction (people hosting dinner, whatever).

Our city has an intensive mentoring program for dominants which spans months. And I know of multiple weekend training camps that attempt to teach skills and bring about some of the self-awareness you discuss in one of your posts. While not everyone may respond with interest, I think you will find some interest.

I think over time I have soaked up bits from discussions and experiences. With finite time and resources, I do not see myself traveling to 24/7 house or spending a weekend in someone's house simply to observe their dynamic. I have had a friend strongly recommend a weekend training retreat, which I might consider but also see as a lesser priority.

I am active with multiple communities and I think people gravitate to others with whom they sense commonality. I see myself turning to these people for relationship model ideas versus traveling to a house, or picking a house from a list of volunteers specifically for this purpose.

I have been seeing models of relationships and protocols via involvement with the local scene and events hosted by friends in the scene. However, if I were specifically focusing on how to define that model (versus letting it happen organically) I might consider the idea. I recognize that the idea may be of greater interest to someone new who had not yet seen BDSM relationship models.

Cheers,

Sea




DiurnalVampire -> RE: In-House training? (7/26/2008 9:35:05 AM)

Personally, even with a complex group of worksheets, I dont see where living in a 24/7 husehold would teach anyone anything they couldnt either figure out on their own, or learn without the stay in your place.
I will have a 24/7 relationship with Fox very soon, Angel potentialy in the future. What works for us would not be covered on your worksheets, I am fairly sure. There are too many things that have to be worked out on a person by person basis. What would concern me is that by giving people the ability to "mimic" your family, they might overlook issues and shifts in their own. People have a nasty habit of going the easy route and setting something up the way it was done elsewhere instead of putting the effort in to create their own.
Being available to talk to someone about how to run a house, and help them figure out some of the more complex bits is one thing. That I could easily get behind, and have even offered a time or two. However, letting them see how I live (which would be altered by the fact of having guests, so they wouldnt be seeing the true eay you lived anyway) wouldnt benefit anyone unless they were going to be coming to live with me. In fact it might be more detrimental when they learn something they like and then cannot have it themsleves in their own family.

DV




ButchFemDomCpl -> RE: In-House training? (7/26/2008 9:36:25 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ProtagonistLily

~I'm quick posting without reading the comments first~

interesting concept, but I have a few questions....

Right, and my house is a 24/7 lifestyle house. Because of this, would the training styles be identical? Would my mannerism and behavior be what you are looking for? Would you look upon my training as inferior because I may not live up to your standards?


As I stated before, everyone is different.  This would be a way to open yourself to new ideas and thought processes if you were considering 24/7.

quote:


My point here is, it's rather presumptuous to expect that just because you run YOUR house in a particular way and deem it a 24/7 lifestyle house, that all who prescribe to a 24/7 house will have the kind of training you are advocating. This is a chicken/egg argument. There is nothing standardized in todays BDSM realm. Anyone who says so's full of crap.


I never suggested anything of that nature.  What I said is that there are MANY different ways to run a 24/7 House.  What I have to show/offer, is just one of many.  Everyone has to decide for themsevles what works for them and what doesnt.  However.. when all of us started playing, we had to learn thing from others.  We learned things we wanted to keep and do, and we learned things that we discarded as they werent right for us.   What I am proposing is simply one example to see, with information on many different ways to do the same thing.   The end goal, the "lofty vision" as it were, would be to have a community of BDSM houses that are linked across the USA and across the world. NONE of them would be identical to each other, all of them set up with BDSM households.  One poster (sorry, dont know name whilst typing) tried to remind people on here that just remembering the names of all the "tools of the trade" were difficult for someone new.  

I was thinking.. maybe its more like this.. You can read about how to use a Tawes, or you can use a Tawes and see how it feels, or you can watch someone use a Tawes and learn immediately how much strength to use to hit with it, or how much not to use with it, depending on whom you have as the reciever.  Like reading about how to ride a bicycle is vastly different than actually swinging your leg over the saddle and riding, is the same as reading about how to use a Tawes and then picking one up and using it.   And if you are new and dont know what a Tawes is.....

quote:



Now, that isn't to say that your house isn't legitimate. I'm sure it is, and I admire anyone who's interested in sharing their training system. However, if someone is differantly trained than what you deem acceptable, that doesn't make them illegitimate as a 24/7 lifestyler in the same respect.



I have no interest in proclaiming what is "legitmate" and what isn't.  Again, what I was thinking of offering was a place where people could learn different ways to run their House. 


quote:


What are your credentials? What makes you someone who's able to teach to the masses? I'm not trying to be argumentative, but again, it seems a bit arrogant to me that you have deemed your house some kind of role model Mecca and such that you are thinking of starting some kind of training program. I'm just curious as to what makes you qualified to run such a program?


I have a kinky resume.  I have credentials to teach.   I have taught classes in the past. If I decide to go forward with that, that information would be given to the persons intersted in learning from the House.  Currently I have been asked to do demonstrations locally, so at this point, it would be mostly for locals new to Las Vegas, or to those who had Mentors that inquired about someone they were trying to help.   What I have been asking for, is what people think of the idea. 
quote:


And honestly, why would you want to? For those who are interested in slavery, who are in committed relationships where this M/s element is part of what it is they do, why would this be practical? Wouldn't the Dominant person in the equation know what kind of slave they wanted and take responsibility to train them thusly?


I was mentored and trained when I came into the scene in the 1980's.  I have an interest in doing this as a "give back" to the community of people who are novice or new.    Where do new Dom/mes learn from?  Classes or books, trying things.  When they have questions, who do they ask?   The format I am thinking would offer a place that all three aspects are combined. Then people would be able to look at different examples and keep what they like and discard what doesnt fit for them.

quote:


And I really have to wonder if we aren't talking apples and oranges here anyway. You mentioned that you've encountered a lack of training in the Vegas area, and feel that by opening yourselves up to be teachers, you could fill some kind of void. But the reality of my experiences in the scene are, there are just some people who are meat puppets, who are here for the tactile experience and the cheap thrill and have no intensions of ever modeling their behavior in a way that would smack of leather lifestyle or slavery or are interested in M/s or even D/s relationships. For me, it's been at times a struggle to realize this, and once I realized this, it freed me up to focus on myself and what I had to offer, instead of cluttering my head with stuff that I can't control and really have no business worrying about.



You are right, I may be opening Myself up needlessly.  On the other hand, I may be helping someone who is desperately trying to learn new things.   I agree with the meat puppets comment, seen them, dont like them.  Thats why I was thinking that people who were invited into the House came here on sort of a "vouching" type process. 

Thanks for your comments.. quite a bit to think about

Femme
ButchFemDomCpl




ButchFemDomCpl -> RE: In-House training? (7/26/2008 9:54:54 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: stella41b

I think in theory it's a brilliant idea..

I was involved in the early stages of setting up Victorian Dover, which was a lifestyle BDSM household in Dover, UK. It was meant to be a BDSM household devoted to the Victorian or period lifestyle, but in the end it ended up being a general BDSM lifestyle household.

Like the others I'm just curious as to how much you can teach someone about various component elements of your household, would this be by running courses or seminars? Wouldn't it be better to offer the experience of being in such a household for the weekend, but instead promote the household through seminars and workshops at various venues?

Something else I'm curious about, and that is how it is to be run.. Are you hoping for something more specialist, and therefore hoping to attract a smaller market of people who are deeply interested in your particular lifestyle, or are you hoping to dilute it for the wider community as it were?

My reason for asking is that the people who come and visit your household are probably going to have a greater influence on your household and the success of your venture than it may seem. How can you guarantee that you will find enough people with a deep enough interest in your household?

Would it not be better to offer the experience of being part of the household and leave the actual training to a well developed website for example, with more detailed training and seminars at different events?

Just curious...


Wow.. AWESOME questions.  About how compent elements work:   I have a lecture format I use when giving talks about BDSM Households.  I was thinking of taking that lecture, rewriting it into a set of questions that the people ask themselves about what they want in their relationship and what they see as the end result.  The lecture/questionarre brings out ideas, LOTS of them.  There are at least 100 pages or more of information that I can share with people once I know what their interests are.  Very few of them can be taught with 100% understanding over a weekend.  The idea is to expose people to the ideas. 

I remember when I was little and driving teams of horses.  I grew up on a cattle ranch.  I had fantasies from a very young age to using that bullwhip on a man's ass.   It was such a taboo thing, but I knew I wanted to do it, as much as I wanted to breath.   Sitting on the cart, the big Belgian horses heart-shaped butts reminded Me SO much of men's asses.   I couldnt tell anyone that was My fantasy anymore than I could fly.  YET... if someone had taken Me, at that very tender time of learning and said... "Hey.. did you know that you can use whips on men.. and they'd love it??" I would have been overjoyed.   My point is this... often new people have serious fantasies that they cant even express because they feel they are soo dark, so taboo.  Going to the safety of a single House, with just a very few people in it to talk about your secret desires, for some people.. maybe much better for them, than to go to a very public place.   What I am suggesting isnt for everyone.. but for people who are learning, or want to learn different ideas and thoughts.

I have done talks on the House.  Its because I have done so, and questions came up that were along the lines of.. "So how does this, or this, or this, really work..."  that caused Me to write and ask slaves what they thought.

The idea was to offer this to people within the community that other mentors knew needed/wanted/ more information or simply just a different way of looking at the same thing.

I have considered what sort of impact it would have on My current House.  You may be quite right that it may impact it negatively.  If that happens, I'd quit this project. 

Your last comment is exactly what I have in mind.. to offer people "the experience."  Not, never to suggest that this is the "only way" or the "right way"... but simply to show "one way."  This wouldnt work for everyone, especially those who have already set up their BDSM House and know exactly what they are seeking.  This is for people who are new and want to learn more, or those who have deep seated desires and no venue for feeling safe to explore them. 

There are a lot of professional people who are scared to death to go to a public place.   This would be a space that they could learn from, yet have complete safety and anoniminity (sp?).

Thanks for your questions.. they were awesome.. and now have Me thinking in a whole new area.

Femme
ButchFemDomCpl




ButchFemDomCpl -> RE: In-House training? (7/26/2008 9:56:12 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheIslandofO

My two cents  is, we tried a few years back to legally set up such a enterprise in Las Vegas as well here in sunny Florida, both times we faced serious legal obstacles that in the end made it monetarily unfeasible. Unless you are willing to risk serious financial ruin, it is becoming extremely difficult to open such a place in the USA or the UK. A Lot will be willing to argue this, however this is the main reason we went offshore. Our due diligence by our board for a few years looking at real possibilities and spending considerable sums of time effort and money.Good Luck


Was this reported in the local papers?  If so, I'd sure like to read about it to find out more. 

Thanks
Femme




ButchFemDomCpl -> RE: In-House training? (7/26/2008 10:14:12 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

The only argument is one you have created, by refusing to answer the most basic questions about details.  I regret asking Leatherist to back off, because you jumped down his throat like a 13-year-old when I stepped between the two of you.  He had you pegged better than I did.  It's happened before.

If you want support from anyone with any experience at all, I'd suggest you return here with (1) a list of actual practical skills that would be taught, (2) proof that you've done even 10 minutes of legal research -- oh, and (3) keep the attitude at home.



Had Leatherist not said that I was "disrespectful" about Old Guard, and made false claims that I claimed to be "Old Guard" I wouldnt have been so offended and wrote as such.   He didn't "peg' Me, he was taking pot shots.  Sorry.. I dont go for that.

List of skills?   I am sorry that you arent understanding the concepts I am asking about.  This isnt about a list of skills, but to open people to new ideas, new concepts, things they may not have considered when talking about 24/7.  Legal aspects, work aspects, service aspects, these are the base start points for discussions within the House. It goes from there into practical information about safety, family and the like. 

The idea is not to teach someone "This is how I do it and this is how you should do it to"... but ... more like.. "This is how we do things here, some of this may work for you, some of it may not work for you, but at least you'll get an idea of what you may want in your own house and what you may not want." 

Ten minutes research?   Look up "City of LiveOak vs Slightly Sinful" in the city of Live Oak, California, Sutter County in 1992.   That was My company, and yes, I did win. I still have the same legal cousel.

As far as "attitude" goes, dont jump down My throat, and I wont jump down yours.  If you read Leatherists posts, he has already set up his own House.  He feels that he knows everything he needs to know, he has no interest in learning anything else.  He wont consider that new people arent the same as him.  This IS his right to think that way.  I would defend his right to the death to say what he thinks. 

His comments were NOT constructive crits, or positive ideas, merely pot shots.   Had he not been so offensive with his comments, chances are, I wouldnt have been so offended.

Femme
ButchFemDomCpl




ButchFemDomCpl -> RE: In-House training? (7/26/2008 10:56:43 AM)

My idea is to show the structure of a House.  What do I mean by “Structure?”
1. Giving people ways to document a clear delineation of beliefs, authority, responsibilities, obligations, policies and procedures within YOUR House.


2. You may ask yourself  "Why do we need written documents to define our relationship?"
When people take the time to write down what they want and how they want to run the house, it allows both Owners and sub/slaves the time to evaluate their partners and find partners with shared values.  The written word is powerful.  It can be twisted rather quickly, case in point.. posters who have fogged the original question I wrote.  Writing things down forces all parties to confront the reality of what they are about to do.  For many, slavery is about personal fulfillment.  Writing house documents (policies, procedures and the like) defines everyones desires and expectations within the House. Once this step is done, it often reduces the likelihood of disappointment or confrontation as the result of memory lapse.  By writing everything down, this establishes informed consent


  3. You may ask yourself "What sort of documents should we create or what sorts of documents are created within My house?" A List of Fundamental Beliefs, Deciding how you want your Application Process set up for your house, Policies and Procedures of your House, and lastly a Lifestyle Agreement (contract).  People considering 24/7 could choose to use ALL of this, or none of it.  Again.,. its what works for the two people.

  4. You may ask yourself "What is the list of Fundamental Beliefs regarding M/s relationships (your values)?"   Topics that I would cover is writing a Statements of beliefs to allow a candidate to readily identify divergent values.  Provide multiple examples of statements of belief.  For some, It may be helpful to create statements of belief regarding the following:
The nature of M/s relationships, what is the the Dom/mes authority and responsibilities, The slave’s obligation to obey, The relationship between service, slavery and play, what is the role of sex in M/s relationships, when is punishment justified and what is it purpose?, What is the importance of forgiveness, and what should family, friends, employers and children know about your activities?


The written word is power.  By having these sorts of documents written out in the BDSM Household it helps omit “memory lapse” by either the slave or the Owner.


  5.You may want to see examples of Application Process (petitioning) There would be discussions of why the evaluation of long-term potential is really important for all parties.  When you break an evaluation down into logical steps, its much easier for two people to enter into a BDSM relationship.  There would be multiple samples of different application form, discussions over the amount of Medical history that should be uncovered.  

6. New people may want to see examples of Household Policies and Procedures. By writing policies or statements regarding what is to occur, this gives the slave a great degree of comfort.  By nature, slaves WANT to make their Owners happy.  If they know exactly what is expected of them, they tend to be far happier.  Writing these sorts of documents are not easy, but a policies and procedures document allows a candidate to get a good indication of what serving a particular Owner will be like.   These sorts of documents help the Owner avoid conflicting orders and expectations.
Some things on the table for discussion in this document would be, Behavior and courtesies, Clothing, Communication, Duties, Emotional needs, Failure to comply with orders, Friends and family, Finances, Food and lodging, Health and hygiene, Obedience and cooperation, Personal and intellectual property,            Recreation and special privileges, Religion, Restraints, and then to review and revise these documents as a living, breathing part of your House.

  7. For those that ask “why do all that?”  its to have good structure within your house so there are less disappointments, more understanding, better expectations. Structure is all about anticipating, planning and writing it down.  Once House documents are written, both Owner and Slave will quickly realize if their partner is one that shares the same BDSM values as they do, this forces all parties to confront the reality of what they are about to do, it defines desires and expectations, it reduces the likelihood of disappointment or confrontation as the result of memory lapse, and most of all, it  establishes informed consent.


  These are the documents that I thought should be discussed.  It may take an entire weekend just to develop this, for some, it may take a year.  For others, they have never been exposed to setting up a house like this and they may like it, or they may reject it. ALL of those things are fine. 

  I believe many protocols have a military background.  Perhaps what I should say is the House documents are much like writing a good business plan?   A good plan often yields a prosperous business.  After these documents are in place, then My house would serve to show how the documents can be implemented.   I feel like a broken record here, but what I was thinking of offering is a way to show people in My house may or may not work for them, but it SHOULD get their fertile minds working to come up with ideas, goals, procedures and the like for their own house. 

I hope this posting helps define what I was considering doing in my House.  If this sort of thing wouldnt work for you, then dont respond, just ignore this topic. I am seeking responses from people who have little experience.  I am seeking responses from those who are experienced, and have positive questions/comments on why it would or wouldnt work, by all means, please respond. 

Femme
ButchFemDomCpl




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