quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

4) if your still feeling dissed ,there really isn't that much I can do for you I have seen too many tragedy's to move my position and heard too many cliche's from the pro-gun lobby to want to...

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ORIGINAL: kittinSol

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ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

I think the best 'solution' I ever hear came from a comedian (Chris Rock?) who said - make bullets cost $100/each and gun violence would go down dramatically.

Chris rocks, but I already hear the litany of pro-guns nutters as they whine against that too.

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ORIGINAL: slvemike4u
Is there a Constitutional argument to be made for affordable ammunition?

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ORIGINAL: DomKen

30 inches lets people have rifles and shotguns for hunting and home defense.

5 rounds means no one can go out and buy an AR-15 and a couple of 30 round magazines for the purpose of committing mass murder. Every time such a person must stop to reload is another chance for the shooter to be stopped. I acknowledge this sort of thing can't be prevented 100% but it can be made much more difficult without adversely affecting hunters or people defending themselves.

Modify a gun to go below the minimum length and you're pretty clearly planning to conceal it and that means your intent is either to kill or intimidate by threatening to kill.

Handgun ammo is shorter than equivalent caliber rifle ammo, I know there are weapons made that are exceptions to the rule, and I couldn't remember the technical term for the length of the round. I know caliber is the diameter of the round or the length of the barrel as compared to the bore diameter but I cannot remember the term for the diameter to length ration of a round.

Yes, it does mean that in that contrived situation or in any situation where the police confiscate a weapon that wouldn't be legal to buy that that wepon is destroyed if a conviction or guilty plea is the result. the goal is to get rid of handguns with simply confiscating all of them.

Legitimate purposes for guns? Hunting, target shooting and home defense. None of those require handguns. Handguns, I've already heard all the  rationalizations so don't bother,  are intended to kill people and that isn't a legitmate reason to have the things around.

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ORIGINAL: DomKen

Merc,

If I was you, and you're committed to living where the earth moves when Beth isn't around, I would get a good pump shotgun and a box of ammo for your kit. A big earthquake could turn Cali into the wild west for a few days. A big intimidating shotgun doesn't take skill or a lot of practice to use and is a very strong deterrent.

Also don't discount the dogs. I've seen dogs get very nasty when they thought their owners were in danger.

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ORIGINAL: igor2003
About 10 years ago i was out hiking with a lady friend when we were attacked by two dogs.  On was a very large Rothweiler, and the other was a mixed breed that was even larger.  I had a day pack that I ripped off my back and managed to keep between myself and the dogs while my friend stayed behind me.  A few minutes later (though it seemed like hours) the dogs owner came jogging by without so much as an, "I'm sorry".  That was the day that I decided I wanted a CWP. 

Here where we live we have probably hundreds, if not thousands, of hiking and bicycling trails within a 2 hour drive.  We share those trails with black bear and mountain lions.  We have also had people killed along those trails and in camp grounds by animals of a more fowl nature....man.  And not to mention just the every day people that will not keep their dogs under control.  Do I want to carry a full sized rifle or shotgun every time I go hiking or bicycling?  No.  But I'll tell you what...I don't want to carry a stick and only be able to shout, "Bang!  Your're dead!" in my defense either. 

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ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Do the United States have a high level of gun violence? Is it a violent society? I think the answer is 'yes'. Now, if there is a real political will to change that, it needs to start somewhere, doesn't it?

Why else would you have posted this thread, if it wasn't to discuss this particular subject?

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ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
beth's been lobbying for a shotgun for a long time. she's an old fashioned farm girl and this it the first time she's lived in a house without a gun. Me - I'm still too 'east coast' NYC oriented to think I need one.

However, Xmas is just around the corner!

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ORIGINAL: slvemike4u
Camille Police depts.all over this country arrest "bad" guys with guns every day,stop producing and selling guns at record numbers ,and before you know it...less "bad"guys have access to guns.It's called attrition and it's not a theory it works,the same old excuse for not doing anything is one of the contributing factors to these tragedy's....

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ORIGINAL: slvemike4u
...and as an extra added incentive LEGAL law Abiding citizens guns are now worth more....win win situation

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ORIGINAL: Vendaval

I am with beth on the shotgun idea, Merc.  I keep one here that was grand-fathered in from the family.  You guys can also go out shooting for practice at a local range, makes for a great bonding experience.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
beth's been lobbying for a shotgun for a long time. she's an old fashioned farm girl and this it the first time she's lived in a house without a gun. Me - I'm still too 'east coast' NYC oriented to think I need one.

However, Xmas is just around the corner!

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ORIGINAL: DomKen

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ORIGINAL: igor2003
About 10 years ago i was out hiking with a lady friend when we were attacked by two dogs.  On was a very large Rothweiler, and the other was a mixed breed that was even larger.  I had a day pack that I ripped off my back and managed to keep between myself and the dogs while my friend stayed behind me.  A few minutes later (though it seemed like hours) the dogs owner came jogging by without so much as an, "I'm sorry".  That was the day that I decided I wanted a CWP. 

Here where we live we have probably hundreds, if not thousands, of hiking and bicycling trails within a 2 hour drive.  We share those trails with black bear and mountain lions.  We have also had people killed along those trails and in camp grounds by animals of a more fowl nature....man.  And not to mention just the every day people that will not keep their dogs under control.  Do I want to carry a full sized rifle or shotgun every time I go hiking or bicycling?  No.  But I'll tell you what...I don't want to carry a stick and only be able to shout, "Bang!  Your're dead!" in my defense either. 

If you are attacked by either a cougar or bear a handgun is likely to make no difference. Cougars pounce from hiding and even little black bears are not going to be stopped by anything short of a very high caliber handgun. Pepper spray is a much better alternative.

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ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

FR:

The issue is indeed gun control.  Gun control is the problem, and a contributing factor to this shooting, and many others.

If everyone (or even just a large minority) of the adults carried guns, then such events would become rare.

Don't you think the shooter thought "Heh!  Church!  No one carries guns to church!  I won't have any problems killing me some ..."

If, on the other hand, it was normal for people to "carry" on a daily basis - church, college, airport, etc - there would be a greater deterrence to opportunistic terrorists like this.

Why don't we ever see any headlines like "10 killed, 20 wounded in local gun show, as armed man rampaged through showroom floor"?  [:D]

Yes, indeed, gun control is the problem.  Taking away, or discouraging the rights of people to have and carry guns is the central problem.

Firm

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ORIGINAL: philosophy

The thing is, in the US, gun culture is just that....part of the culture. It has nothing to do with whether or not guns make you safe (pay for your own study and trumpet its findings), nothing to do with preventing crime, nothing to do with anything really. It all hinges on the fact that some people want their guns and will go to any lengths to keep them. Imagine some government in the UK trying to ban football. Or a government in Russia trying to ban vodka.

Come up with any arguments you like, but the US will not be giving up guns any time soon.

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ORIGINAL: boytoy4female

This event brings to the surface, a personal struggle that I am facing. I have a concealed weapons permit, but I really do not carry except on rare occasions. Now I find myself thinking I should carry more often, even to church. Say I was sitting in the last pew, saw the events unfold and could have saved a life by acting as I am authorized. How would I feel, knowing I could have prevented some loss had I been  carrying a concealed weapon? I don't know what the answer is. Im not a gun fanatic, but I am well trained in their handling. Am I a fanatic if I carry everywhere? Am I not up holding my obligation, by not being prepared?

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ORIGINAL: DomKen

30 inches lets people have rifles and shotguns for hunting and home defense.

5 rounds means no one can go out and buy an AR-15 and a couple of 30 round magazines for the purpose of committing mass murder. Every time such a person must stop to reload is another chance for the shooter to be stopped. I acknowledge this sort of thing can't be prevented 100% but it can be made much more difficult without adversely affecting hunters or people defending themselves.

Modify a gun to go below the minimum length and you're pretty clearly planning to conceal it and that means your intent is either to kill or intimidate by threatening to kill.

Handgun ammo is shorter than equivalent caliber rifle ammo, I know there are weapons made that are exceptions to the rule, and I couldn't remember the technical term for the length of the round. I know caliber is the diameter of the round or the length of the barrel as compared to the bore diameter but I cannot remember the term for the diameter to length ration of a round.

Yes, it does mean that in that contrived situation or in any situation where the police confiscate a weapon that wouldn't be legal to buy that that wepon is destroyed if a conviction or guilty plea is the result. the goal is to get rid of handguns with simply confiscating all of them.

Legitimate purposes for guns? Hunting, target shooting and home defense. None of those require handguns. Handguns, I've already heard all the  rationalizations so don't bother,  are intended to kill people and that isn't a legitmate reason to have the things around.

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ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

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ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

4) if your still feeling dissed ,there really isn't that much I can do for you I have seen too many tragedy's to move my position and heard too many cliche's from the pro-gun lobby to want to...

Oh, yeah.  I missed this one.

By your own words, you are completely unwilling and unable to change your position. (Does the term "frozen" and "granite-like" resonate? How about "obstinate" and "stubborn"?  Or, even better "rigid" and "inflexible"?)  [:D]

And you decry the "lack of debate" from "the other side"?

Priceless!  [:)][:D]

Firm

(This is pure modern American liberalism at it's finest.  You are willing to debate, but only if the other side is willing to do what you demand.  Since they don't agree with your position - which you are totally unwilling to entertain modifications to - that somehow makes your opponents "inflexible"? Your definition "to debate" appears to be "to agree with me".)

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ORIGINAL: apiercedkitty

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

30 inches lets people have rifles and shotguns for hunting and home defense.

5 rounds means no one can go out and buy an AR-15 and a couple of 30 round magazines for the purpose of committing mass murder. Every time such a person must stop to reload is another chance for the shooter to be stopped. I acknowledge this sort of thing can't be prevented 100% but it can be made much more difficult without adversely affecting hunters or people defending themselves.

Modify a gun to go below the minimum length and you're pretty clearly planning to conceal it and that means your intent is either to kill or intimidate by threatening to kill.

Handgun ammo is shorter than equivalent caliber rifle ammo, I know there are weapons made that are exceptions to the rule, and I couldn't remember the technical term for the length of the round. I know caliber is the diameter of the round or the length of the barrel as compared to the bore diameter but I cannot remember the term for the diameter to length ration of a round.

Yes, it does mean that in that contrived situation or in any situation where the police confiscate a weapon that wouldn't be legal to buy that that wepon is destroyed if a conviction or guilty plea is the result. the goal is to get rid of handguns with simply confiscating all of them.

Legitimate purposes for guns? Hunting, target shooting and home defense. None of those require handguns. Handguns, I've already heard all the  rationalizations so don't bother,  are intended to kill people and that isn't a legitmate reason to have the things around.

Well shit... i'm behind the times then cuz my handgunS (yes, plural) have only ever been fired at targets - either on the back of my property (into a sandpit) or on range. i (and my kids - God forbid!!) love to target shoot.

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ORIGINAL: slvemike4u
we accept the government regulating who drives a car ,why should there not be more stringent regulations as to who owns a firearm...I don't want to take away your guns,I just want a society where there are less of them floating around on the street....