RE: So, you are a "slave"

RE: So, you are a "slave" (Full Version)

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Leatherist -> RE: So, you are a "slave" (7/28/2008 7:09:25 PM)
I agree with you about the shamanic mindset. I think what a potential servant really sees in an owner is a vision that resonates in thier core. Another thread had some rather silly people incessantly arguing semantic details over this sort of a connection. And trying to apply logic to something much more spiritually based. And by spiritual, I do not mean religion. It's about feelings, an itch that drives one to seek a potential-and a feeling of homecoming, where you click into a place you knew was made for you.

ResidentSadist -> RE: So, you are a "slave" (7/29/2008 12:35:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: opposingtwilight quote: ORIGINAL: Leatherist Stupid little 20 year old girls who just come on here to yank people's chains dude. -frowns- Ok, you're right. I and my 20-something friends who also identify as slave are jokes. We're just here to yank your chain. We show off our perky titties and our cute round bottoms and in the end we have no real interest in finding someone who literally compells us to utterly submit to their every whim. Wait, what? Hmmm. I hate seeing the age card played out. Its so unfair because really what can one say to that? I can't deny being young. It is what it is. I am a young girl with some extremely submissive tendencies. I identify as a slave because I like how it sounds and how it feels to be treated like a slave. That said, I wouldn't let you pierce my nipples either. After all the mess I've heard about healing times, rejections, gunk coming out of your body ... Nah, my nips are beautiful and perfect and wonderful just as they are. If it aint broke, don't fix it. You know? Perhaps that makes me a joke or a player or not a slave or whatever. I guess there are worse things I could be. Honestly, the tone of your posts in this thread kind of scream ANGST!!! And I'm sorry that whoever messed around with you, got to you. Its no fun when that happens. Someone got to me too recently and it really hurts. I'm not going to post a thread about it though. Its really no one else's business and I'm going to learn from the experience and move on. Hope you get to feeling better soon. Um… ok. You identify as a slave but no one else would think you one. You can also identify as a raccoon if you wish but it would be equally misplaced. The fact you even think you would be allowed the choice to speak like you do “I wouldn't let you pierce my nipples” shows that you are not suited for a TPE relationship. Even if you were allergic to piercings, it is your duty to inform your owner that doing something would hurt you but it is not your choice. Further, you would give up a relationship rather than wear a symbol identifies you as property to your Master? The nipple piercing itself is no big deal… but having Masters steel in your body as a symbol, that is a big deal. Knowing that having a slave ring your nipple makes you more appealing than a woman without pierced nipples is a big thing. I can’t imagine a slave that wouldn’t want to be more appealing to her Master. I can’t imagine a slave that wouldn’t want her nipples constantly in her Master’s mind so that every time he looked at her he knew there was a pair of service rings hanging from the nipples of his property. If your Master asked you to pierce your nipples and you had a sexual mind, you wouldn’t hesitate for heartbeat because you know you would be getting laid twice as often. Also, a property tag on a loop hanging from your hood and bouncing against your clit all day long is another standard method of marking slaves. Imagine your owner’s name on a steel tag that’s banging against your clit every time you walk… That is a big deal. So you are just playin' babygirl. Stay away from TPE. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Come on people… D/s verses M/s, get a grip on it. You are on CollarMe, treat this place with a modicum of respect and acknowledge that “wouldn’t obey” options are only accepted in a D/s negotiated submission. That is not what a slave in a TPE does. No slave refuses to wear the steal of her Master or his mark. She is to act as property. My car never told me whether it didn’t want to wear the license plate. My slave sure as fuck would never tell me whether she would have a nipple pierced or not.

Prinsexx -> RE: So, you are a "slave" (7/29/2008 12:55:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Leatherist I agree with you about the shamanic mindset. I think what a potential servant really sees in an owner is a vision that resonates in thier core. Another thread had some rather silly people incessantly arguing semantic details over this sort of a connection. And trying to apply logic to something much more spiritually based. And by spiritual, I do not mean religion. It's about feelings, an itch that drives one to seek a potential-and a feeling of homecoming, where you click into a place you knew was made for you. If you have arrived at the concept of kismet then all is resolved. Now which one brings the kismet to the table when Owner and slave meet....there's the question.

Prinsexx -> RE: So, you are a "slave" (7/29/2008 12:59:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist If your Master asked you to pierce your nipples and you had a sexual mind, you wouldn’t hesitate for heartbeat because you know you would be getting laid twice as often. stop stop stop with the remote viewing......[:D]

ResidentSadist -> RE: So, you are a "slave" (7/29/2008 1:27:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Prinsexx quote: ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist If your Master asked you to pierce your nipples and you had a sexual mind, you wouldn’t hesitate for heartbeat because you know you would be getting laid twice as often. stop stop stop with the remote viewing......[:D] So you are saying I am perving you via remote psychic viewing? Let me open a channel and see what I see right now? [sm=sex.gif] Oooooooooops. Sorry to interrupt. ….Love you too sweetheart.

Prinsexx -> RE: So, you are a "slave" (7/29/2008 2:04:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW This is my issue with the whole terminology of 'slavery'. {.............} I see slavery as an externally forced, non-consentual process. The mindset that you describe, Prin (which I completely recognize, and truly value) is not the mindset of a slave, however -- it is the mindset of a conscious individual who lives in service by -choice-... that doesn't describe a slave. Historically, slaves have been unhappy, unwilling participants in their own servitude. They have been compelled through race or social/religious background to work against their will for another human being. They were typically either broken, and completely devoid of spirit or will, or they were looking for a way to escape their slavery and live as free men. i think these problems arise because of the wide range and historically and contextually different uses of the term slave. i think it may be herem or on another thread, i have checked and i cannot find where you ask the very pertinent question of why do we cling to the term slave anyway? (Anyway question about what a slave brings to the table relies upon defining or agreeing upon the term slave tself does it not?) It got me thingking about the function of language itself and two terms which i am fascinated by; the terms antithetic and metathetic. Why do we cling to the word slave? http://www.pep-web.org/document.php?id=PAQ.053.0038A Freud's view (and i am not a Freudian, which is obvious i hope) of primal or first simple words emphasized their origins in the vocal acquisition of language and their similarity to primary process behavior in young children. Our English vernacular or everyday use of words is rich in word play of reversals and antitheses, (antithetics). Examples are hot=cool, crazy=acceptable, farout = truly understandable/at hand. Some words being truly ancient, historical and cross-cultural, Others originate in the subversions of slang and in the child's penchant for mirror imaging and other primary process play. In the regression of analytic work, according to the Freudian approach, the uttered word can combine with dream imagery and behavioral enactment to convey the antitheses abounding the early psycho-sexual concerns of the individuating child acquiring language. Other approaches suggest different explanations for the change of language focusing on how we make use of language as metaphor. What I am suggesting is that in bdsm the term slave has not only been contextualized or used in its antithetical sense (ie consensual slavery) but also in its metathetical sense as a term conveying a wide field of experiential phenomena, Hence the numbers of ‘slaves’ who will jump to their own defense of the meaning of the word.Added quite simply: i dream also as who i am. See also: Lakoff, G., and Johnson, M. (1980). Metaphors We Live By. Chicago: U. of Chicago Press Lakoff, G. (1987). Women, Fire, and Dangerous Things. Chicago: University of Chicago Press Kramer, M., (1991). Dream Translation: A No associative Method for Understanding the Dream. Dreaming, Vol 1, No. 2. Prin ......xx....hoping that brings something to the table.

missturbation -> RE: So, you are a "slave" (7/29/2008 4:42:25 AM)
quote: That said, I wouldn't let you pierce my nipples either. quote: The fact you even think you would be allowed the choice to speak like you do “I wouldn't let you pierce my nipples” shows that you are not suited for a TPE relationship. Even if you were allergic to piercings, it is your duty to inform your owner that doing something would hurt you but it is not your choice. I think you are maybe being a little unfair here RS. A slave still has the right to hard limits and if they are set out at the beginning and agreed upon, there is no reason she could not be a slave. Maybe not to you as you quite possibly would not agree to this, but there are those who would.

ShiftedJewel -> RE: So, you are a "slave" (7/29/2008 5:24:06 AM)
quote: He wanted someone who would do exactly what he wanted - regardless of the situation he put them in. He wanted someone he could count on to be there when she said she would and not be there when she said she wouldn't. He wanted someone whose proclivities or at least the willingness to try out his proclivities matched his own. He wanted someone who understood where he was coming from, where he was going and why he was doing what he was doing. He wanted someone who would do all these things and more. In short, he wanted someone who matched what he was looking for to take care of what he wanted taken care of when he wanted it taken care of. And he wanted it all with no argument - not because she was unthinking, but because when she thought about it, she was more than willing to give things a try and she really wanted to submit - on his terms, not hers. *juliet... you said that so well. That is exactly it.* *Jewel*

simpleplan2 -> RE: So, you are a "slave" (7/29/2008 5:43:20 AM)
I guess what I don't understand is why anyone cares what anyone else calls him or herself. We all have our own opinions of who and what we are. As long as it isn't hurting another...what's the difference?

thetammyjo -> RE: So, you are a "slave" (7/29/2008 5:54:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: camille65 So you see 'slave' as a position, not disposition? Yes, I see it as a relationship model. Submissive or service-driven I see as more personality or personal identity types. I apply the same criteria to claims of being an owner/mistress/master as well.

thetammyjo -> RE: So, you are a "slave" (7/29/2008 5:58:55 AM)
I wouldn't attempt to try and rid BDSM of the term "slave" I merely see it as consensual and historically and institutionally while they were very very rare, slaves did enter into service consensual and slaves have had legal and social rights of varying degrees in various cultures. My comment was merely how I see the terms myself and use them myself. For me they are a relationship title, not a personality type or philosophy within BDSM.. anything outside BDSM isn't what I do and I'd only discuss it as a civil rights or historical matter not a kink matter. quote: ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW quote: ORIGINAL: thetammyjo This is just my pet peeve here talking, but unless one is owned I don't think one can be a slave. Same why that I cannot be an owner without someone I own. Slave and owner (or it's various titles) are relationship titles. No relationship = no title in my opinion. I agree. I debate whether it is even possible to be a "consensual" slave. It is a dichotomous term... being a slave implies having no free will -- and nearly every "slave" I've talked to in more than a decade in this way of life is very clear about having their will be intact and undamaged. Even the "Owners" I've talked to discuss how to "claim" a slave without "breaking" hir and such. Sorry, folks, this -isn't- slavery. Slavery is an act of compulsion. It is the absence of freedom. It is lack of ownership of -anything- in one's life... one's dignity, one's body -- even one's name. I prefer the term "servant". It accurately represents what my Darling and I are looking for, is very clear about the status of the individual in the household, and makes no claims of denying the consensual nature of the relationship. They come and serve. They can choose not to, and I can't do a darned thing about it. They can quit whenever they want, and I have no recourse to force them back to work (or to force them to do something they're determined not to do). If they have a choice, they're not slaves. Submissiveness is a state of being. Slavery is a state of existence -- it has nothing to do with individual philosophy. Slavery compels regardless of the individual's nature, and forces even the unwilling to accept. It is also illegal and cannot be enforced. Submissiveness is within a person, but slavery is an external force and has nothing to do with the depth or completeness of one's capacity to submit to another. Calla Firestorm

thetammyjo -> RE: So, you are a "slave" (7/29/2008 6:05:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: calice For me being a slave is who i am, even though it took me years to reconginze the signs. Having the heart of a slave has nothing to do with whether I am owned at that moment or not. I could make a list of examples, trying to show how the slave in me shows through in everyday life, but in light of the fact that slaves are all different i know that wouldn't begin to cover peoples experiences. I realize that being an unowned slave is a hard thing for some people to comprehend but slavery isn't about who i serve it is about what i am at my very core. No i don't need anyones stamp of approval as to whether I'm a slave or not; however, I do want to point out that making blanket judgements about people usually ends up in a wrong assumption I didn't think I was making a judgment; I thought I was stating my opinion. Sorry if you were offended. Call yourself and identity yourself however you feel is appropriate but that unfortunately or fortunately depending on your viewpoint will not affect how others use the terms within their own lives. The OP was about people using a term then not giving much more.. my reaction to that is "whose slave are you?" But if someone says "I'm a slave and this is why I feel this way/this is how I live that nature" they have given more and are not simply relying on one term which will be and is used differently by different people. That is the nature of human languages -- constantly though slowly changing over decades and differing by culture, subculture, and person.

thetammyjo -> RE: So, you are a "slave" (7/29/2008 6:10:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sublizzie Don't pilots need proven "air time" before they are licensed? I am not a slave but I have slave-like tendancies. That means that I could become a slave given the right owner. I tend toward slave-like behaviors whether I am owned or not, which tends to not be healthy for me. It makes it easier if I see myself as a slave and recognize that only my Dominant has a right to use me in that way. It's a protective measure I've learned to take to keep myself safer. I think this is very true in my experience. Fox has very strong submissive drives but he was also raised to be a leader and in terms of BDSM he is a switch. It took the right person, that is me at this time, to earn his devotion so that he became a slave. He would not, however, call himself a slave but my slave. He'd identify himself outside of our dynamic as a sub, a bottom and a top, a latex/rubber fetishist, and a furry. Outside of our dynamic I see him as a really good human being.

Leatherist -> RE: So, you are a "slave" (7/29/2008 6:27:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist quote: ORIGINAL: opposingtwilight quote: ORIGINAL: Leatherist Stupid little 20 year old girls who just come on here to yank people's chains dude. -frowns- Ok, you're right. I and my 20-something friends who also identify as slave are jokes. We're just here to yank your chain. We show off our perky titties and our cute round bottoms and in the end we have no real interest in finding someone who literally compells us to utterly submit to their every whim. Wait, what? Hmmm. I hate seeing the age card played out. Its so unfair because really what can one say to that? I can't deny being young. It is what it is. I am a young girl with some extremely submissive tendencies. I identify as a slave because I like how it sounds and how it feels to be treated like a slave. That said, I wouldn't let you pierce my nipples either. After all the mess I've heard about healing times, rejections, gunk coming out of your body ... Nah, my nips are beautiful and perfect and wonderful just as they are. If it aint broke, don't fix it. You know? Perhaps that makes me a joke or a player or not a slave or whatever. I guess there are worse things I could be. Honestly, the tone of your posts in this thread kind of scream ANGST!!! And I'm sorry that whoever messed around with you, got to you. Its no fun when that happens. Someone got to me too recently and it really hurts. I'm not going to post a thread about it though. Its really no one else's business and I'm going to learn from the experience and move on. Hope you get to feeling better soon. Um… ok. You identify as a slave but no one else would think you one. You can also identify as a raccoon if you wish but it would be equally misplaced. The fact you even think you would be allowed the choice to speak like you do “I wouldn't let you pierce my nipples” shows that you are not suited for a TPE relationship. Even if you were allergic to piercings, it is your duty to inform your owner that doing something would hurt you but it is not your choice. Further, you would give up a relationship rather than wear a symbol identifies you as property to your Master? The nipple piercing itself is no big deal… but having Masters steel in your body as a symbol, that is a big deal. Knowing that having a slave ring your nipple makes you more appealing than a woman without pierced nipples is a big thing. I can’t imagine a slave that wouldn’t want to be more appealing to her Master. I can’t imagine a slave that wouldn’t want her nipples constantly in her Master’s mind so that every time he looked at her he knew there was a pair of service rings hanging from the nipples of his property. If your Master asked you to pierce your nipples and you had a sexual mind, you wouldn’t hesitate for heartbeat because you know you would be getting laid twice as often. Also, a property tag on a loop hanging from your hood and bouncing against your clit all day long is another standard method of marking slaves. Imagine your owner’s name on a steel tag that’s banging against your clit every time you walk… That is a big deal. So you are just playin' babygirl. Stay away from TPE. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Come on people… D/s verses M/s, get a grip on it. You are on CollarMe, treat this place with a modicum of respect and acknowledge that “wouldn’t obey” options are only accepted in a D/s negotiated submission. That is not what a slave in a TPE does. No slave refuses to wear the steal of her Master or his mark. She is to act as property. My car never told me whether it didn’t want to wear the license plate. My slave sure as fuck would never tell me whether she would have a nipple pierced or not. People come up with a lot of excuses and misdirections whenever you smack down thier fantasies, and insist on seeing some sacrifices and work. I don't let it bother me, it only shows that they don't get it. Not worth arguing over.

missturbation -> RE: So, you are a "slave" (7/29/2008 6:40:15 AM)
quote: People come up with a lot of excuses and misdirections whenever you smack down thier fantasies, and insist on seeing some sacrifices and work. I don't let it bother me, it only shows that they don't get it. Not worth arguing over. *knickers in twist alert* Firstly why would you smack someone elses fantasies down? If they don't match your ideals let them know but not by being dismissive of what they want. Sacrifices and work. Doesn't that go both ways? It's not all about the slave giving everything. Taking for example the nipple piercing, if thats the only thing that you don't share the same opinion on is it worth saying ' well fuck you then'? How about just maybe the Dom sacrifices his need for this. They don't get it. What don't they get? Your definition of slavery? They don't have to get your definition of slavery do they? Does it ake them wrong and you right?

Leatherist -> RE: So, you are a "slave" (7/29/2008 6:54:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: missturbation quote: People come up with a lot of excuses and misdirections whenever you smack down thier fantasies, and insist on seeing some sacrifices and work. I don't let it bother me, it only shows that they don't get it. Not worth arguing over. *knickers in twist alert* Firstly why would you smack someone elses fantasies down? If they don't match your ideals let them know but not by being dismissive of what they want. Sacrifices and work. Doesn't that go both ways? It's not all about the slave giving everything. Taking for example the nipple piercing, if thats the only thing that you don't share the same opinion on is it worth saying ' well fuck you then'? How about just maybe the Dom sacrifices his need for this. They don't get it. What don't they get? Your definition of slavery? They don't have to get your definition of slavery do they? Does it ake them wrong and you right? Because some fantasies are just stupid beyond all reason. Try living life as a racoon furry 24/7, and see what your boss and customers on the sales floor think. And why make sacrifices of things you think are important? Isn't that just sort of whimpy? You can only compromise some things to a certain point,then it becomes settling-and that very seldom works.

missturbation -> RE: So, you are a "slave" (7/29/2008 7:02:53 AM)
*Can't hold tongue any longer* I luff you RS, you rock but......................... quote: Um… ok. You identify as a slave but no one else would think you one. Speak for yourself, not me. quote: The fact you even think you would be allowed the choice to speak like you do “I wouldn't let you pierce my nipples” shows that you are not suited for a TPE relationship. Even if you were allergic to piercings, it is your duty to inform your owner that doing something would hurt you but it is not your choice. Or maybe she could negotiate at the beginning and state that it is something she is not willing to do. Up to the Master to decide whether that condition of service is acceptable. quote: Further, you would give up a relationship rather than wear a symbol identifies you as property to your Master? Would you give up a relationship with a slave for the sake of one restriction? quote: The nipple piercing itself is no big deal… but having Masters steel in your body as a symbol, that is a big deal. For you maybe. For me anything which involves needles is a huge deal. Why is a piece of steel such a big deal? quote: Knowing that having a slave ring your nipple makes you more appealing than a woman without pierced nipples is a big thing. I can’t imagine a slave that wouldn’t want to be more appealing to her Master. Its not appealing to everyone. I don't think she is saying she doesn't want to be more appealing to her master. I think she is saying that a nipple piercing would be a deal breaker for her. Which is her RIGHT> quote: If your Master asked you to pierce your nipples and you had a sexual mind, you wouldn’t hesitate for heartbeat because you know you would be getting laid twice as often. Speak for yourself again. I would certainly hesitate and as far as Sir and i concerned i am a slave. quote: So you are just playin' babygirl. Stay away from TPE. By your definition of TPE maybe. But your definition is not universal or the one truth. quote: D/s verses M/s, get a grip on it. You are on CollarMe, treat this place with a modicum of respect and acknowledge that “wouldn’t obey” options are only accepted in a D/s negotiated submission. No. As a slave i still have the right to negotiate. quote: That is not what a slave in a TPE does. No. That is not what a slave involved with YOU in a TPE does. quote: No slave refuses to wear the steal of her Master or his mark. See answer above. Just as an aside, i personally would fit into your idea of a TPE as i would not refuse Sir anything. That doesn't mean i think my / your way is the only right way though. It just happens to suit us both.

missturbation -> RE: So, you are a "slave" (7/29/2008 7:09:33 AM)
quote: Because some fantasies are just stupid beyond all reason. Try living life as a racoon furry 24/7, and see what your boss and customers on the sales floor think Stupid, nah. Noones fantasies are stupid. They may be impractical, not possible, but not stupid. quote: And why make sacrifices of things you think are important? Isn't that just sort of whimpy? Depends how important they are compared to throwing away a relationship that otherwise could work very well. Making a sacrifice is wimpy? Nah i don't think so. I think it shows great strength to be willing to compromise on something of importance. Of course if it gets to the point of settling as you mention then yeah i agree. However there is a way to tell someone they don't 'fit' your ideals without smacking them down.

lally3 -> RE: So, you are a "slave" (7/29/2008 7:10:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Leatherist I agree with you about the shamanic mindset. I think what a potential servant really sees in an owner is a vision that resonates in thier core. Another thread had some rather silly people incessantly arguing semantic details over this sort of a connection. And trying to apply logic to something much more spiritually based. And by spiritual, I do not mean religion. It's about feelings, an itch that drives one to seek a potential-and a feeling of homecoming, where you click into a place you knew was made for you. this made my heart go all pitty patty - i think im in love with you all over again! i cant comment about slave profiles, dont read them. i know that for some people 'slavery' is riven with conditions - but maybe thats just insecurity and not really knowing what it is to be completely submissive to a D. its not until you feel - really feel that feeling that all of those conditions and safety blankets can be given up.

Leatherist -> RE: So, you are a "slave" (7/29/2008 7:14:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lally3 quote: ORIGINAL: Leatherist I agree with you about the shamanic mindset. I think what a potential servant really sees in an owner is a vision that resonates in thier core. Another thread had some rather silly people incessantly arguing semantic details over this sort of a connection. And trying to apply logic to something much more spiritually based. And by spiritual, I do not mean religion. It's about feelings, an itch that drives one to seek a potential-and a feeling of homecoming, where you click into a place you knew was made for you. this made my heart go all pitty patty - i think im in love with you all over again! i cant comment about slave profiles, dont read them. i know that for some people 'slavery' is riven with conditions - but maybe thats just insecurity and not really knowing what it is to be completely submissive to a D. its not until you feel - really feel that feeling that all of those conditions and safety blankets can be given up. TPE these days tends to come when people with similar visions come together and it gives them a feeling of safety and fullfillment. The big things are already taken care of. Anything beyond those is just small details. I see a lot of people in these forums who seem insecure and jealous of people who can go there-so they nit pick on the details instead (the sky is falling,the sky is falling!)-since there is nothing else for them to create drama over. [:D]

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