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Morality - 11/16/2005 11:43:19 AM   
candystripper


Posts: 3486
Joined: 11/1/2005
Status: offline 		In a D/s or M/s relationship, does the submissive or slave abrogate their morals and "adopt" those of their Dom or Master or Domme? What happens if a submissive or slave is asked to do something or not do something that is morally reprehensible to them but not their Dom/Master/Domme?

candystripper
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Morality - 11/16/2005 11:45:35 AM   
darkinshadows


Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline
Ideal situation is that you will not have submitted to someone to whom you could ever say no to. He or She would have the same morals, same ethics as yourself in the first place. Morals are not about limitations. They are part of who you are.

Peace and Rapture

_____________________________
.dark.



...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to candystripper)
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RE: Morality - 11/16/2005 11:47:30 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: candystripper
In a D/s or M/s relationship, does the submissive or slave abrogate their morals and "adopt" those of their Dom or Master or Domme?

If they choose to.
quote:

What happens if a submissive or slave is asked to do something or not do something that is morally reprehensible to them but not their Dom/Master/Domme?

You either obey or ask to be released. Same as always.

(in reply to candystripper)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Morality - 11/16/2005 11:48:05 AM   
daddysprop247


Posts: 1712
Joined: 6/24/2005
From: DC Metro area
Status: offline 		as slave, my personals morals, ethics, values, and what have you are irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. obviously before becoming his we knew that we were on the same page about many things of that sort, but no two people are perfectly matched (and how boring it would be if that were possible!). some things are morally reprehensible to me and they are not so to him...and since it is his needs and desires that matter, one just has to learn to set personal feelings aside and just focus on serving. focus on the pleasure that will be on his face and in his heart when he sees that you have served well, without question or hesitation or attitude.

(in reply to candystripper)
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RE: Morality - 11/16/2005 11:50:54 AM   
candystripper


Posts: 3486
Joined: 11/1/2005
Status: offline
quote:

as slave, my personals morals, ethics, values, and what have you are irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. obviously before becoming his we knew that we were on the same page about many things of that sort, but no two people are perfectly matched (and how boring it would be if that were possible!). some things are morally reprehensible to me and they are not so to him...and since it is his needs and desires that matter, one just has to learn to set personal feelings aside and just focus on serving. focus on the pleasure that will be on his face and in his heart when he sees that you have served well, without question or hesitation or attitude.

daddysprop247


i cannot imagine doing as you have suggested. i was asking about Morally Repugnant acts or ommissions; i could not choose any Man over my Honor.

candystripper

(in reply to daddysprop247)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Morality - 11/16/2005 11:56:25 AM   
daddysprop247


Posts: 1712
Joined: 6/24/2005
From: DC Metro area
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: candystripper


i cannot imagine doing as you have suggested. i was asking about Morally Repugnant acts or ommissions; i could not choose any Man over my Honor.

candystripper



it is not about choosing any man over one's honor. it is about accepting the fact that i am owned and do not have the freedom to refuse him, that this relationship is not about what pleases me or even what keeps me healthy and sane...it is about serving and pleasing HIM, period. and it may be sad for a bit if that means crossing moral boundaries, but it is simply the way it is. such is life, and there's no sense in dwelling over it or going crazy over it.

(in reply to candystripper)
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RE: Morality - 11/16/2005 12:03:48 PM   
starshineowned


Posts: 1551
Joined: 4/19/2005
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: candystripper

In a D/s or M/s relationship, does the submissive or slave abrogate their morals and "adopt" those of their Dom or Master or Domme? What happens if a submissive or slave is asked to do something or not do something that is morally reprehensible to them but not their Dom/Master/Domme?

candystripper


As stated already..hopefully such things as personal morals, ethics would of been a primary issue in talking before agreeing to submit. If the sub/slave did not put forth their feelings of such possibles..then it is pretty much their own fault.

Bottom line..you either obey or you don't. The leaving part could be asked or suggested by either Owner or sub/slave at that time.

starshine
Happy slave of Master Delvin

(in reply to candystripper)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Morality - 11/16/2005 12:06:04 PM   
slavejali


Posts: 2918
Status: offline 		i think the possiblility of that coming up should be addressed before you commit to the relationship. How you live your life ethically and morally is a big part of who you are.

Addition: There are parts of Masters life that i do adopt though but none of those things infringe on my morals or ethics. Things like, ive never taken a martial arts class in my life before meeting Master, yet it is a big part of his life, so now its a big part of mine. Master likes to have a beer of an evening or socially, i never used to drink, i have a glass of wine with him now...stuff like that.

< Message edited by slavejali -- 11/16/2005 12:11:14 PM >

(in reply to candystripper)
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RE: Morality - 11/16/2005 12:28:11 PM   
Wolfie648


Posts: 600
Joined: 9/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

In a D/s or M/s relationship, does the submissive or slave abrogate their morals and "adopt" those of their Dom or Master or Domme? What happens if a submissive or slave is asked to do something or not do something that is morally reprehensible to them but not their Dom/Master/Domme?


In my little corner of the universe (hardly reflective of the general community here I think - not a slur but a point of reference):

A slave would 'adopt' their owners, should there be a discrepency. (Those romans were onto something! :-)

A submissive has the option of saying no and/or release.

D (owner of j)




_____________________________

Possibly.

(in reply to candystripper)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Morality - 11/16/2005 12:52:23 PM   
sub4hire


Posts: 6775
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Ideal situation is that you will not have submitted to someone to whom you could ever say no to. He or She would have the same morals, same ethics as yourself in the first place. Morals are not about limitations. They are part of who you are.


I agree with Angel, when choosing a significant other whether vanilla or lifestyle oriented you have to consider who they are. You choose the person who best matches your morals. If they don't, do you submit? Or rather should you submit? What if you have children and they say they don't want them. Do you walk away as any decent parent would or do you give your children up?

There are things from time to time my dom asks me to do that is a bit uncomfortable for me. Although, I also know he has my best interest at heart. He won't tell me to do something that would harm me or anything that is against my moral code.

(in reply to darkinshadows)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Morality - 11/16/2005 12:56:45 PM   
fyreredsub


Posts: 3403
Joined: 10/7/2005
Status: offline 		Sir and i do not share the same philosophy's re: religion and politics. however, he has stated that he would not impose his beliefs on me but it would please him i;'m sure if one day mine were to be more adaptable to his and perhaps become my own. however it is not a hard limit for him nor myself. we are on the same wave length w/ everything else so far,yet i have had him to push some of my soft limits to be more accepting to his ways.it is all part of pleasing and finding my personal freedom within my submission to him.


quote:

ORIGINAL: candystripper

In a D/s or M/s relationship, does the submissive or slave abrogate their morals and "adopt" those of their Dom or Master or Domme? What happens if a submissive or slave is asked to do something or not do something that is morally reprehensible to them but not their Dom/Master/Domme?

candystripper



< Message edited by fyreredsub -- 11/16/2005 12:58:51 PM >

_____________________________

"Accordingly, men must then either fulfill their nature, or deny it, and in denying their nature, deny us ours, for ours is the complement to theirs. " Renegades

(in reply to candystripper)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Morality - 11/16/2005 1:01:47 PM   
ownedjulia


Posts: 218
Joined: 10/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

quote:

What happens if a submissive or slave is asked to do something or not do something that is morally reprehensible to them but not their Dom/Master/Domme?

You either obey or ask to be released. Same as always.


Quite correct.

to question an order is to question the Master and is unacceptable.



_____________________________

~julia
owned slave and proud of it!

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Morality - 11/16/2005 1:03:02 PM   
fyreredsub


Posts: 3403
Joined: 10/7/2005
Status: offline 		but pink what is repugnant to one perhaps isnt to another.when one submits they find honor is being pleasing by doing as they are told.now there are hard limits i would never cross the line over.i would have to beg release so i DO understand what you are saying but some of a subs/slaves honor is in doing exactly what sir/master/dom says.that is what submission is All about.


quote:

ORIGINAL: candystripper

quote:

as slave, my personals morals, ethics, values, and what have you are irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. obviously before becoming his we knew that we were on the same page about many things of that sort, but no two people are perfectly matched (and how boring it would be if that were possible!). some things are morally reprehensible to me and they are not so to him...and since it is his needs and desires that matter, one just has to learn to set personal feelings aside and just focus on serving. focus on the pleasure that will be on his face and in his heart when he sees that you have served well, without question or hesitation or attitude.

daddysprop247


i cannot imagine doing as you have suggested. i was asking about Morally Repugnant acts or ommissions; i could not choose any Man over my Honor.

candystripper



_____________________________

"Accordingly, men must then either fulfill their nature, or deny it, and in denying their nature, deny us ours, for ours is the complement to theirs. " Renegades

(in reply to candystripper)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Morality - 11/16/2005 1:03:06 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedjulia
to question an order is to question the Master and is unacceptable.

Well I didn't go THAT far. Questioning an order or a master is sometimes exactly the right and best thing. Some dominants even encourage it.

Questioning is not the same as disobeying, unless it's used as a stall tactic (and that's pretty easy to spot).

(in reply to ownedjulia)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Morality - 11/16/2005 1:05:15 PM   
ErosPsyche


Posts: 46
Joined: 11/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: candystripper

quote:

as slave, my personals morals, ethics, values, and what have you are irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. obviously before becoming his we knew that we were on the same page about many things of that sort, but no two people are perfectly matched (and how boring it would be if that were possible!). some things are morally reprehensible to me and they are not so to him...and since it is his needs and desires that matter, one just has to learn to set personal feelings aside and just focus on serving. focus on the pleasure that will be on his face and in his heart when he sees that you have served well, without question or hesitation or attitude.

daddysprop247


i cannot imagine doing as you have suggested. i was asking about Morally Repugnant acts or ommissions; i could not choose any Man over my Honor.

candystripper



And she answered your question - you just didn't like the answer. You were "asking about Morally Repugnant acts or ommissions" and her answer directly addressed that: she's property and her slavery's dicate is to serve and obey.

There's something distasteful about you asking a question and then getting pissy at answers that don't reinforce your conclusion. You're not even disagreeing in the sense of addressing her articulation of slavery - you're just bitching.

(in reply to candystripper)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Morality - 11/16/2005 1:05:49 PM   
Phoenxx


Posts: 253
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: Swift Current
Status: offline 		A lot of it depends on the dynamics of your relationship. If you have agreed that you will give control over in all areas, then you either have to adapt or leave. If you have set limits then you can discuss it. And it depends too on if your talking about something that is illegal or not. Becoming your Master’s drug runner is a bit on the outside. Going into a ploy relationship may be something you talk about.

As always open and honest communication is the key to any relationship.
Tony



(in reply to candystripper)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Morality - 11/16/2005 1:24:19 PM   
ownedjulia


Posts: 218
Joined: 10/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross


quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedjulia
to question an order is to question the Master and is unacceptable.

Well I didn't go THAT far. Questioning an order or a master is sometimes exactly the right and best thing. Some dominants even encourage it.

Questioning is not the same as disobeying, unless it's used as a stall tactic (and that's pretty easy to spot).


What I meant was that even after questioning, discussing and everything else all that remains is his order and your reaction to it.

Your obey or suffer the consequences.

_____________________________

~julia
owned slave and proud of it!

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Morality - 11/16/2005 2:34:05 PM   
candystripper


Posts: 3486
Joined: 11/1/2005
Status: offline
quote:

And she answered your question - you just didn't like the answer. You were "asking about Morally Repugnant acts or ommissions" and her answer directly addressed that: she's property and her slavery's dicate is to serve and obey.

There's something distasteful about you asking a question and then getting pissy at answers that don't reinforce your conclusion. You're not even disagreeing in the sense of addressing her articulation of slavery - you're just bitching.

ErosPsyche


i am not The Answer Lady; i do not know what is right for others. i merely disagreed with the concept that i would abdicate my need to live an Honorable Life once i was collared.

And i never "just bitch" my bitch sessions are legendary. You'll certainly know when one is posted.

candystripper

(in reply to ErosPsyche)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Morality - 11/16/2005 2:39:14 PM   
KittenWithaTwist


Posts: 490
Joined: 8/3/2005
Status: offline 		The point of any relationship, vanilla or D/s or whatever, is to find someone who carries the same morals and values that you do. If they don't, how on earth do you plan to get along?


_____________________________

"Time travel: It's a cornocopia of disturbing concepts." ~Ron Stoppable

(in reply to candystripper)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Morality - 11/16/2005 2:54:51 PM   
KittenWithaTwist


Posts: 490
Joined: 8/3/2005
Status: offline 		And to reply to what some others have said,

I wouldn't ever enter into a relationship where my morals and values (the things that matter most to me and make me who I am) were of no importance, UNLESS my morals and values were matched by my dominant. And I mean to the T. If my potential believed that stealing or sport hunting was a-okay and expected me to adopt those beliefs, I would say no way. But that's just me. Those are things that matter to me on a very deep level. Everyone has different morals and ethics.

As far as questioning and disobeying, in my relationship I am mostly allowed to ask questions of my dominant regarding orders that are uncommon. As far as disobeying, I have yet *knock on wood* to be so offensive as to be asked or demanded or even suggested to leave. I believe some people throw that kind of issue around, as though it's this or that and that's it. I guess my dom and I are different in that respect.

Of course, if it ever came to that, my personal integrity is infinitely more important to me than breaking my moral code for someone else, anyone else.

_____________________________

"Time travel: It's a cornocopia of disturbing concepts." ~Ron Stoppable

(in reply to KittenWithaTwist)
Profile   Post #: 20
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