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RE: Morality - 11/20/2005 4:21:36 AM   
arayofsunshine55


Posts: 545
Joined: 8/1/2004
From: San Francisco, CA
Status: offline 		When looking for someone with whom I am compatible, norals and values are pretty primary on my list of compatibility. And at 43 these are not things I seek to change.

_____________________________

Sunshine

Is it not most transformative, most earthshaking, to pierce the veils of self-deception and illusion, and crack the eggshell of ignorance, to most intimately encounter oneself? Lama Surya Das

(in reply to Chaingang)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Morality - 11/20/2005 5:33:50 AM   
fyreredsub


Posts: 3403
Joined: 10/7/2005
Status: offline 		how easy do you think it would be to be released when you let your owner have your soul?



quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelMI

personally, i think that, if things are discussed "before" a collar is offered or excepted (from a submissive's point of view) then these things would not be a factor. slaves, on the other hand, are basically "stuck" with two choices, do as you are told or ask for release.

my Mistress knows of my hard limits and has told me She would never make me do things i find "morally reprehensible".



_____________________________

"Accordingly, men must then either fulfill their nature, or deny it, and in denying their nature, deny us ours, for ours is the complement to theirs. " Renegades

(in reply to michaelMI)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Morality - 11/20/2005 5:36:00 AM   
fyreredsub


Posts: 3403
Joined: 10/7/2005
Status: offline 		if they keep coming back for more and feel slighted when they don't get it---oh yes Sir, you got that one right.
they are using that excue to make themselves feel better b/c they can't deal w/ the fact that they are nasty lil girls,,,lol



quote:

ORIGINAL: ExistentialSteel

LAM said it well, but let me say it again in everyday terms. Few subs let a dom make them do anything that is against their morals.

I have heard subs say they were made to do this and that, yet, they kept going back for more and felt rejected when the dom tired of them.

So whatever they did was done willingly and they felt excited doing if they are honest with themselves.




< Message edited by fyreredsub -- 11/20/2005 5:42:42 AM >

_____________________________

"Accordingly, men must then either fulfill their nature, or deny it, and in denying their nature, deny us ours, for ours is the complement to theirs. " Renegades

(in reply to ExistentialSteel)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Morality - 11/20/2005 11:02:30 PM   
LATEXBABY64


Posts: 2107
Joined: 4/8/2004
Status: offline 		thats a loaded question show me a dom with good morals i will show you a leperichon with a pot of gold lol. anyhow heres my point. bdsm is factions of what people think life should be we are forever changing and ever comming up with new ways to justify right and wrong a lot of time wrong heres is why great loves are always selfless they give into each other. and when we veiw things we views things the american way not the world way keep in mind morals of this country are ony 400 years old so our morals may not work with morals of another country. all a point of view dont you think
namaste :)

(in reply to fyreredsub)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Morality - 11/20/2005 11:11:14 PM   
michaelMI


Posts: 421
Joined: 2/18/2005
Status: offline 		i never said it would be easy...far from it. you can serve Someone and be miserable (going against your own personal morals), but what kind of life would that be. it should be about mutual happiness (IMO). if a sub/slave is miserable all the time, how does that reflect upon their owner? think about it.

(in reply to fyreredsub)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Morality - 11/20/2005 11:15:16 PM   
veronicaofML


Posts: 1317
Joined: 11/19/2005
From: from iowa..now in wisconsin
Status: offline 		hopefully you only enter in committed relationship
--------

nope. NOT committed to anyone anywhere.......i am a free soul.


_____________________________

drugs sex and rock n roll,...drugs are good and so is the rock n roll, sex is over rated"
=============
"go straight to hell, do not pass go and do not collect $200"



(in reply to Morgaine289)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Morality - 11/21/2005 1:27:38 PM   
fyreredsub


Posts: 3403
Joined: 10/7/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelMI

i never said it would be easy...far from it. you can serve Someone and be miserable (going against your own personal morals), but what kind of life would that be. it should be about mutual happiness (IMO). if a sub/slave is miserable all the time, how does that reflect upon their owner? think about it.


i could not serve under a master that did not care if i was happy.

_____________________________

"Accordingly, men must then either fulfill their nature, or deny it, and in denying their nature, deny us ours, for ours is the complement to theirs. " Renegades

(in reply to michaelMI)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Morality - 11/21/2005 4:32:05 PM   
veronicaofML


Posts: 1317
Joined: 11/19/2005
From: from iowa..now in wisconsin
Status: offline 		thats a loaded question show me a dom with good morals i will show you a leprechaun with a pot of gold lol.
==========
then i guess "I" am the leprechaun?
i know personally some male doms with good morals.
oh........and i corrected your spelling.


_____________________________

drugs sex and rock n roll,...drugs are good and so is the rock n roll, sex is over rated"
=============
"go straight to hell, do not pass go and do not collect $200"



(in reply to LATEXBABY64)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Morality - 11/21/2005 4:36:41 PM   
Padriag


Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: veronicaofML

thats a loaded question show me a dom with good morals i will show you a leprechaun with a pot of gold lol.

Well, I am Irish...

_____________________________

Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

(in reply to veronicaofML)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Morality - 11/22/2005 5:53:39 AM   
sothernnyte


Posts: 95
Joined: 11/22/2005
Status: offline 		i think if one chooses wisely, there will not be many moral dilemmas in the first place between a sub/slave and their Owners. However, i found that anything is negotiable. i was lucky enough to have an incredible Femme Domme train and own me. And one thing She emphasized to me, is that if something makes you think hard enough to question it in your mind, it is important enough to request a discussion on that subject. Many of the Dommes i have come into contact with appreciate honesty above all rather than a mindless submissive that has no thoughts of their own. of course, i am a SAM...lol. but seriously, it doesn't have to be "do or die". there are possible outs, limitations, questions and any Dominant that has any sense of caring about Their sub/slave will more than likely take into consideration a sub's/slave's feelings upon the matter.
sincerely
sothernnyte

(in reply to KittenWithaTwist)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Morality - 11/22/2005 7:01:24 AM   
riskrewarded


Posts: 23
Joined: 8/26/2005
Status: offline 		M/s is an art not a science.
Ive never met a good artist who was satisfied with thier art.
Masters and slaves are people therefore human and rife with flaws, their decisions riddled with mistakes.
Anyone with a perfect Master or slave has low expections or is blind.
M/s exists in the instances where two people disagree, if this wasnt the case there would be no need for a Master and people would just be in harmony.
We work, we do our best, so that we can look at ourselves in the morning with respect because this is what we ask of ourselves.
This is what we demand of ourselves.
The Morality of M/s is in the attempt of the impossible and soldiering on when it doesnt go the way we hoped or planned.
Man makes plans and god laughs.
Sorry sweetpeas but your Master isnt god and guess what big bad masters?
Your slave isnt either.

(in reply to arayofsunshine55)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Morality - 11/22/2005 8:17:14 AM   
GentileDomNY


Posts: 13
Joined: 11/20/2005
Status: offline 		This is a far more complex question then it appears or then many of the answers suggest; the only simple answer would be that "it depends."
I agree with the people who have said that sub should have almost absolute freedom to raise questions and make their thoughts known. I also agree that there is a point at which things have been fully aired and D can cut off the continuing discussion.
Its simply wrong, and unacceptable, for a D to demand of an s something that s truely finds morally repugnant; that is simply doing a form of intentional permanent injury, mentally and emotionally rather than physically, and no D has license to willfully and intentionally do permanent injury to any s.
There are also all kinds of things that may be considered morally repugnant. A strict vegitarian may consider it morally repugnant to eat eggs or drink milk, and a D may recognize a potential or developing nutrition risk and direct the consumption of eggs and skim milk for a while. That is a whole different thing then, for example, asking a mother to neglect or abandon her child.
That said, its also the role of the D to expand the horizons and push the limits of s. Often, in doing that, D knows things that s doesn't, on purpose, and it has to stay that way to have the desired effect. If s knew the reality they would have no problem with it, but if they knew the reality it also wouldn't be a growth experience. After the desired effect has set in, D may fill in the missing pieces if they think that will grant some piece of mind, but sometimes its OK to never fill in the missing pieces. I can think of countless examples of that.
In part it comes down to how much responsibility for s is D taking on. I believe that it should be almost total and absolute, but I know that it is commonly none at all, and that's really where the problem comes about. Someone must take responsibility for s, it should be D, but if it isn't, then it must be s, and only the particular people involved and the particular circumstances can determine what is right in a particular case.

(in reply to candystripper)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Morality - 11/22/2005 1:07:09 PM   
Patrick2005


Posts: 19
Joined: 1/27/2005
Status: offline 		I generally agree with the premise that you should not submit to anyone with great differences in moral standards. However, that is often a bit idealistic in the real world- sort of like "you should maintain your weight in proportion to your height and age", and "you should always strive for perfection in everything you do". Relationships always involve compromises.

As admirable as the principle of unquestioning obedience is; when you come to the sooner or later inevitable conflict, I happen to believe that morality is more important than blind obedience. Ask yourself the question: "Would I want to submit to a person who has so little regard for my moral values that he requires me to violate them?"


(in reply to Morgaine289)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Morality - 11/23/2005 11:10:51 PM   
beneathfeet


Posts: 28
Joined: 1/21/2005
From: East Stroudsburg PA, USA
Status: offline 		Kudos to You candystripper for inspiring an extremely engaging and lively thread of discussion, there have been many and varied view points represented here, and of course i would throw my $0.02 in as well.

Morality is one of the high order ideals that define an individual at their most elementary levels. i even went so far as too look up the definition at www.dictionary.com and the most compelling point that i found there;

quote:

Arising from conscience or the sense of right and wrong: a moral obligation


For what value my opinion might carry as a very strong believer in total subjugation of my will to that of a Woman who would own me is that the context of the situation must be considered before the question can adequately be addressed;

The first and perhaps easiest context for me is that if it is an issue that affects me alone, then the Domme who owns me has full and unquestionable reign.

The second and more complex context is one that involves others. If being moral is truly an obligation, which i believe it is, then i as the Domme's property am obligated to raise an objection. Should that objection be duly noted and still the Domme insists, it would be my obligation to refuse in the best interests of protecting the safety of a non-consenting party.

The second context is one that i believe so strongly in that i have vowed in the past to lay my life down to protect, and will to this day suffer the consequences of my actions in order to protect those who can not protect themselves.

In summation, do unto me what You wish with out regard or limit for i am merely an extension of Your will and desire. Butt use me not as a weapon upon the unsuspecting or non-consenting.



_____________________________

**********************************
While i have fought for the liberty of others...
my heart beats beneath the feet of a Woman!

Semper Stomped
-jay-
**********************************

(in reply to candystripper)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Morality - 11/25/2005 11:49:32 PM   
LATEXBABY64


Posts: 2107
Joined: 4/8/2004
Status: offline 		why thank you for correcting my spelling thats better then spell lol :P oh wow a dictionary a great coffee table book
life is the great lesson teacher of all no text book or school can teach you that morals give us a foundation to work from
princables that give us balance and structure. i always love people that are very intellectual some how the common sense factor seems to be fleeting shrugs i guess in short just have fun enjoy life make as many smiles as you can and how gives a damn what people think after all when look in the mirror you can say i had a good day :)

(in reply to beneathfeet)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Morality - 11/26/2005 6:47:33 PM   
candystripper


Posts: 3486
Joined: 11/1/2005
Status: offline 		So true. i have no skills in some pretty fundamental areas of life -- would definately not be someone to take on a safari -- and yet have enough degrees for a thermometer. Go figure. Sometimes i think education (formal) reaches a critical mass for a person; anything after that just pushes out important information; such as do not allow the pot to remain on a hot stove after the water has boiled away (one i actually did, amoung 1,000 examples i could give).

Thank Gawd for friends, LOL.

candystripper

(in reply to LATEXBABY64)
Profile   Post #: 56
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