RE: Sleeping man decapitated on Greyhound Bus (Full Version)

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Marc2b -> RE: Sleeping man decapitated on Greyhound Bus (7/31/2008 6:26:21 PM)

quote:

Nice theory....hardy har har. At least it damn well wasn't Country Style Donuts or Dunkin Domuts. ~SNORT~


Tweaking Canadian’s noses about their excessive number of Tim Horton’s donut shops is a weird obsession of mine.




Thadius -> RE: Sleeping man decapitated on Greyhound Bus (7/31/2008 6:31:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

I wonder what's going to happen to the killer.  Canada isn't exactly known for being hard on criminals.  I imagine this guy is going to be sent to a funny farm for awhile, but that's it. 


Well if he can skate they might sentence him to play for Le Habitants, they need some more muscle.  And perhaps limit his visits to Tim Hortons....

Just saying,
Thadius

P.S. This crime is horrific, and a little humor is never a bad thing to interject (even when it is very little humor).




angelicbitch -> RE: Sleeping man decapitated on Greyhound Bus (7/31/2008 6:47:00 PM)

What a horrible thing.. good god I can't imagine what those people on the bus must have felt like. The dude I am sure was off his beam just a wee bit .... either way he should and I am sure shall be punished. I agree the bus driver is a hero ... for caging the dufus and not letting him get away.


Peace

Angelic




NeedingMore220 -> RE: Sleeping man decapitated on Greyhound Bus (7/31/2008 6:47:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Just drive thruthe state ,that's all I'm sayin....oh close your windows first
Maybe it's just New York snobbery...but Jersey sucks! [;)]


Yes, it's New York snobbery...  it all depends where in Jersey you are .. north on the Turnpike, yes, it stinks and looks awful. Central Jersey ... coastline, beaches, family towns ... very nice indeed.  If it wasn't, so many New Yorkers wouldn't be moving here in droves. 

Now, I have no idea what this has to do with the thread, lol, but I had to say it, Mike!




Vendaval -> RE: Sleeping man decapitated on Greyhound Bus (8/1/2008 1:11:57 AM)

One of the passengers, the driver and a trucker at the scene kept the murderer from escaping until the police could arrive.  They are the heroes in this horrible situation.




MzMia -> RE: Sleeping man decapitated on Greyhound Bus (8/1/2008 6:39:18 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

One of the passengers, the driver and a trucker at the scene kept the murderer from escaping until the police could arrive.  They are the heroes in this horrible situation.


At the end of the day, THAT is what is important.
They are hero's in every since of the word, they kept their wits, made a plan
and kept him on the bus!
They kept other passengers from being injured or killed.
They are to be applauded and are real modern day hero's!
  [sm=applause.gif][sm=applause.gif][sm=applause.gif]




christine1 -> RE: Sleeping man decapitated on Greyhound Bus (8/1/2008 6:54:57 AM)

i can't imagine what the family of the victim is going through knowing he died in such a horrible way.  i keep thinking what if it was my son and it makes me both terribly sad and furious at the same time. 




sirsholly -> RE: Sleeping man decapitated on Greyhound Bus (8/1/2008 7:21:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: christine1

i can't imagine what the family of the victim is going through knowing he died in such a horrible way.  i keep thinking what if it was my son and it makes me both terribly sad and furious at the same time. 


oh Christine...try not to even go there. The victims family, the passengers, the rescue teams that had to view that...i cannot imagine how they will ever get over it.




winterlight -> RE: Sleeping man decapitated on Greyhound Bus (8/2/2008 10:59:05 AM)

He had a 6 inch knife and everybody fled from the bus in terror. I think at some point he walked up the aisle to the front of the bus and the driver and others
kept him from getting off the bus so he wouldn't hurt others.

Absolutely frightening is how i take this story. Probably somebody that needs to be in a locked psych ward. I think the mental health system needs to be
fixed. I have nothing against mentally ill people but when you have somebody this deranged something should be done.




soul2share -> RE: Sleeping man decapitated on Greyhound Bus (8/2/2008 1:53:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

kitten, at least you got it. It does show how more gun laws are a waste of time though. hope you all have a nice weekend....


Well for what it's worth, I got it too!  But my sense of humor is pretty dark and I really appreciate good irony!  [:D]




L8bloomer -> RE: Sleeping man decapitated on Greyhound Bus (8/2/2008 2:14:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

I think we need more laws restricting guns in the States..


See, you make a joke - whether it's funny or not is pretty irrelevant - and people take it literally. There's no hope for irony around here, there really isn't [:D] .



How true...




L8bloomer -> RE: Sleeping man decapitated on Greyhound Bus (8/2/2008 2:40:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

Crimes like this go un noticed by the anti gun crowd here. It always seems to me that they are anti gun and not anti crime. Another armed passenger could have saved this passenger...


From what I read, regardless of how quickly another passenger may have acted, it is likely the young victim would have died anyway. His body wouldn't have been desecrated in the manner it was, but dead is dead.

quote:

ORIGINAL: beargonewild

Having another passenger armed is one solution yet you fail to understand that the overall mentality of Canadians are of the mindset that "it ain't my business so I ain't getting involved."  It's this attitude of indifference and this is quite evident in  any of our major cities like Toronto, Vancouver, Edmonton etc. Unfortunately the days of strangers helping strangers is far and few between. The way society's attitudes have changed over the years has done much to contribute to this attitude of "not my problem" BS.



I respectfully disagree. I don't think you can make a blanket statement like that. Perhaps this is your experience, but it isn't mine. (Yes I live in the USA right now, but I'm a Canadian who has spent most of her life in Canada.)

quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

...and the alternative? Societal paranoia, which is also not a good thing. Trust is not the problem, a little more trust in the world would be a good thing. You still wont get perfect security, thats impossible, but you will get far less of the low grade abuse that inevitably follows the absence of trust.


I agree.

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

I wonder what's going to happen to the killer.  Canada isn't exactly known for being hard on criminals.  I imagine this guy is going to be sent to a funny farm for awhile, but that's it. 


Sadly I (mostly) agree with you. Canada's judicial system is a joke. But since this crime has received such notoriety, there is a chance he may be kept locked up one way or another for longer than most. After all, Clifford Olsen is still in prison and is unlikely to ever be released. Ditto for Bernardo. The only reason his wife got out was due to the deal that was made before the trial. That was a mistake because, at the time, they didn't realize the extent of her involvement - or perhaps it's more accurate to say they gave her too much credit as to her innocence. She's now living in the Antilles and that galls me. She literally got away with murder.

But I digress.

As others have mentioned...it is such a tragedy for the young man who died and his family and friends. My heart goes out to them. I hope the young man died before he fully comprehended what was happening to him. That, at least, would be one small comfort for those who loved him.





Aswad -> RE: Sleeping man decapitated on Greyhound Bus (8/2/2008 3:12:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: faerytattoodgirl

fact remains is how the hell did a rambo type knife (as they say) get onto a bus in the first place????


Frankly, I would be less concerned with a rambo type knife than a small, discreet one.

Up here, the blade length you may carry outside a bag in a public place is ridiculously short, at 5cm (2") or so. And, of course, you can't take it on a plane, either. It doesn't really change anything, since I can still get to all vital areas with a legal length blade, and a sideways sharpened pencil is legal on a plane, which will still do the job, albeit it will be harder if you don't have a hardwood pencil (they sell those, sharpened the way I mentioned). Jugular, carotid, subclavian, brachial, heart and kidneys. Those are the spots worth aiming for, and none of them are inaccessible to a small, discreet knife.

The difference is that while a discreet knife can kill someone before anyone has a time to notice it, a huge knife like the one in the story will allow you to decapitate someone. Which will alert everyone to what you are doing, as well as splattering blood all over a dozen people who can positively I.D. you in a lineup. Clearly not something you want, if you are giving any thought to what you are doing. Hence, the looney bin seems to be where this case is best sorted. Either that, or a major grudge. And in both cases, there's nothing you can do about it that will make the threat go away.

The real question is whether barring a million stable, sane individual like myself from carrying an ornamental blade (say, a wakizashi), a huge combat knife that you will see from a mile away, or anything similar, is a price worth paying in order to force one crazy or determined killer to use a different way of killing the target. I doubt it. A determined killer will generally not find such measures to be significant obstacles, and a crazy one will not care about risks. Stopping a crazy person with a huge knife from entering the bus will probably lead to more deaths. And decapitation really isn't the worst way to go, although it does leave a mess for others.

"World not safe. Pleasant illusions shattered for busload of people. News at 11."

Ostrich tactics don't work, and the alternatives aren't worth it.

We get as much security as we're willing to live with.

Health,
al-Aswad.




Aswad -> RE: Sleeping man decapitated on Greyhound Bus (8/2/2008 3:16:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: youngsubgeoff

damn, I used to take the greyhound down to columbus almost every other weekend. Looks like Im spending the extra money for gas when I go


Calculate the number of people killed on Greyhound buses, divided by the number of people who travel via Greyhound.

Then calculate the number of people dying in traffic accidents, road rage incidents, etc., divided by the number of drivers out there.

You may arrive at exactly the same conclusion that a lot of reasonable people have over the years: save the extra money for an extra fire alarm and take the bus.

Health,
al-Aswad.




slaveboyforyou -> RE: Sleeping man decapitated on Greyhound Bus (8/2/2008 3:32:07 PM)

quote:

Up here, the blade length you may carry outside a bag in a public place is ridiculously short, at 5cm (2") or so.


The legal length in my state is 3.5 inches.  The knife I've always carried is a Buck Hunter lockblade folder.  It has a 3.75 inch blade, but I've never been hassled for it.  I've been stopped by police and asked if I had any weapons on me.  I've always shown them my knife, and they've never cared.  I live in a rural area, so everyone carries pocket knives here.  I really don't consider my knife as a weapon.  It's utilitarian; I use it for opening bags, cutting rope, paring fruit, cutting up fish, etc. 




Aswad -> RE: Sleeping man decapitated on Greyhound Bus (8/2/2008 4:10:50 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

Crimes like this go un noticed by the anti gun crowd here. It always seems to me that they are anti gun and not anti crime. Another armed passenger could have saved this passenger...


The thing about guns is that they give you range, putting multiple targets in your kill zone right off the bat.

A knife is far superior to a gun for a point blank range kill, but even in a packed crowd, there will be no more than 4-6 people in your kill zone, and just pinning your arm with corpses will put an end to the aggression before you do any more harm. Can you recall any instances where anyone took a knife to church, school, work or the bus, and then proceeded to kill a shitload of people with it? How many instances of the same have happened with guns in the same space of time, if you can even think of one incident?

Risk management is about net cost vs net risk, and public risk management does this at a population level.

My pencil has legitimate, non-violent uses. It is also a useful pointed weapon, i.e. knife. My razor has legitimate, non-violent uses. It is also a useful edged weapon, i.e. knife. There is no item in my household that makes a useful firearm that has any legitimate use other than to serve as a exactly that: a firearm. It is a given that if I buy a firearm that is not a registered antique or somesuch, it will be used as a firearm, or not used at all. Meaning that I can't realistically say that I have anything other than violence, or potential violence, in mind for it. Not so for a number of useful knives. I don't buy pencils and razors specifically for violent uses (most of the time, anyway); I buy those for other uses. Hence, I have legitimate, non-violent reasons for acquiring items that will serve me well as knives if I want one.

Banning guns only limits violent use.

Banning knives only limits non-violent use.

The former is also a less expensive measure than the latter is, making the tradeoff a simple one. Also bear in mind that accidental killings are a factor. The number of accidents have been more favorable lately, as I recall. But the ratio between lives saved and lives taken is still in the red, and there are no secondary uses for a firearm. That makes it one of those cases where you actually don't really care if a criminal has one or not, but you do care that random people don't. Simply put, accidents and the fact that this guy could have shot a number of people before anyone got him, plus the aforementioned ratio, makes any argument of prevention null and void at the interesting level.

Exceptions may exist for areas that mandate carrying a firearm and knowing how to use it, for all eligible citizens.

Note that whether only criminals have guns doesn't really matter, as unbannable homemade weapons would do just as well for most of the violent crime out there. Or would you care to forward the notion that a woman is more likely to fight back at a guy with a knife than one with a gun? Or that people would be more inclined to fight a robber with a knife than one with a gun? If so, and provided you're right, then Darwin wins again. And if not, then you'd have to agree that it gets the job done: the criminal gains. In fact, guns may very well contribute to keeping the standards of criminals lower.

Besides, a gun has less chance of killing non-criminal citizens if it belongs to a criminal.

I'm not anti-gun. Guns do have a legitimate civilian use: insurgency.

Just stop confusing the issue with crime, crazies and such.

Health,
al-Aswad.




Irishknight -> RE: Sleeping man decapitated on Greyhound Bus (8/2/2008 4:25:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad
Banning guns only limits violent use.

Banning knives only limits non-violent use.

You are actually 100% incorrect.  Those who are going to commit crimes with either guns or knives will not abide by bans so crime will not be reduced AT ALL.  Law abiding citizens will find themselves in positions where they have fewer options to defend their homes and families.  Criminals, by their very nature, will ignore the law.
AS for the hoopla about esecuting mentally ill people, I agree with Ron White.  We need to stop lumping all of them in the same category.  I'll gladly pay to feed you for life if you just roll terds into little balls.  If you kill productive, law abiding members of society, I'll be glad to pay for the execution to protect other members of society.  If someone is too crazy to realize that cutting someone's head off is wrong, keeping them alive is a danger to society.




Aswad -> RE: Sleeping man decapitated on Greyhound Bus (8/2/2008 4:26:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

It has a 3.75 inch blade, but I've never been hassled for it.


Mine has been measured three times to see if they could confiscate it. We're anal that way, sad to say.

quote:

I've been stopped by police and asked if I had any weapons on me.  I've always shown them my knife, and they've never cared.  I live in a rural area, so everyone carries pocket knives here.  I really don't consider my knife as a weapon.  It's utilitarian; I use it for opening bags, cutting rope, paring fruit, cutting up fish, etc.


Same thing, except I don't fish and the cops here do care (until I explain that it's my flashlight they should be worried about). [;)]

But I always remember that a blade is deadly if used for that purpose- I just don't have such a use in mind.

Health,
al-Aswad.




dcnovice -> RE: Sleeping man decapitated on Greyhound Bus (8/2/2008 4:30:26 PM)

<fast reply>

And yet another hideous tragedy shrivels to an opportunity to score points in the great gun debate.




L8bloomer -> RE: Sleeping man decapitated on Greyhound Bus (8/2/2008 5:37:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

<fast reply>

And yet another hideous tragedy shrivels to an opportunity to score points in the great gun debate.


Agreed.






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