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RE: Politically Conservative BDSMers? - 8/1/2008 5:22:33 PM   
AtlantisKing111


Posts: 181
Joined: 1/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:



"Let me be blunt. The politically conservative are inextricably affiliated with 'official' culture. Official culture is imposed culture. BDSM, arising spontaneously from need, is authentic unofficial culture. "

"Conservative -

1. disposed to preserve existing conditions, institutions, etc., or to restore traditional ones, and to limit change.


*sigh*  Here we go again.  Sometimes I wonder why I bother.

So college Professors who impose their 'official' culture of no-free-speech zones, disallow guns at all (even for self defense) on campuses, who only allow like-minded Liberals to obtain tenure, and who limit change by fighting to preserve those existing conditions are Conservatives?

So Marxists who impose their 'official' culture of state-run welfare, confiscatory taxes, abolition of private property and denial of their citizen's right to be able to defend themselves are Conservative?

So European politicians who impose their 'official' culture on the masses through Socialistic institutions are Conservative?

By that definition Obama is a Conservative because he wants to preserve the traditional role of Democrats being in charge of the country, restore the tradition of high taxes against the 'rich' and preserve the institution of confiscatory taxes.

Liberals have their 'official culture' and 'traditional institutions' too.  And they too try to limit change by fighting against any attemt to move away from their cultural norms.

One person's Progress is another person's Regression.  Always has been, always will be.  Liberals are just as hypocritical as Conservatives.  They are not about change.  They are about the status quo.  Just a different status quo is all.

(in reply to Augustone)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: Politically Conservative BDSMers? - 8/1/2008 5:23:36 PM   
flower2007


Posts: 120
Joined: 4/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Augustone

It frankly turns my stomach to think of milk (conservatives) and blood (BDSM) mixing.


Awesome.  I made someone's stomach turn.  That's quite a bit of power that I have, isn't it?

(in reply to Augustone)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: Politically Conservative BDSMers? - 8/1/2008 5:41:54 PM   
Roselaure


Posts: 672
Joined: 4/12/2008
Status: offline 		The people that I've encountered in the lifestyle run the political gamut.  The two things don't seem to be related to each other.  IMO, one's sexual predilections are pretty much hardwired and one's political ones are learned, so, not really a correlation there.

_____________________________

Once conform, once do what other people do because they do it, and lethargy steals over all the finer nerves and faculties of the soul.
-Virginia Woolf

(in reply to Augustone)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Politically Conservative BDSMers? - 8/1/2008 6:05:33 PM   
TieNTeas


Posts: 101
Joined: 11/15/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Augustone
<snip>
Congratulations....I can't bothered.
<snip>
Bye all.

Wow.  You almost lasted 4 hours on here and made up your mind about everyone an everything. 

(in reply to Augustone)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: Politically Conservative BDSMers? - 8/1/2008 6:27:46 PM   
katie978


Posts: 352
Joined: 7/21/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aynne

You are a liberal? Please....this entire post slams liberals, you refer to them as "they" and infer that our political prowess is summed up by a bumpersticker, meanwhile prasing the merits of conservatives?

OP, trust me. Not all submissives are conservative. In the least. Politically or otherwise.  



Apologies if I come off like this. I was merely showing that I was not so obsessed with my political viewpoint that in my eyes no liberal could do no wrong and every conservative is a Bible-thumping demon. As for calling them "they", that was more about grammar than any deragotory comment. Believe it or not, sometimes I refer to my family as "they" and fellow kinksters as "they" and I even call my boyfriend "him". I apologize if my pronouns offended.

Certainly there are many extremely well-versed liberals, and I do admit to having met a higher number of them than conservatives (due to geographics, mostly). I've also met a buttload of bandwagon hanger-oners who simply enjoy making fun of our president, rather than having any actual liberal ideologies.


  Oh noes! The OP finally told us all how wonderful and authoritative he was and then he made fun of us all and left. Such a shame and a loss to the boards. If he's got problems with conservative subbies...well...that just leaves more available for the rest of us!

_____________________________



"That's the plan. Rule the world. You and me. Anyday ::wink::"



(in reply to Aynne)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Politically Conservative BDSMers? - 8/1/2008 7:34:54 PM   
hardbodysub


Posts: 1654
Joined: 8/7/2005
Status: offline
quote:

So Marxists who impose their 'official' culture of state-run welfare, confiscatory taxes, abolition of private property and denial of their citizen's right to be able to defend themselves are Conservative?
- AtlantisKing111


Yes. Believe it or not, this is true. "Conservatives" in the USSR, were exactly so, committed to preserve the "establishment", to maintain the positions of those in power. The definition of "conservative" in post-revolutionary China is the same. Conservatives in a communist state are the same as in a democratic republic in that they don't want anything to change. The only difference is the form of government that they're trying to preserve.


(in reply to AtlantisKing111)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Politically Conservative BDSMers? - 8/1/2008 7:36:19 PM   
DomDolf


Posts: 363
Joined: 7/11/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Augustone

Oooooooh a message board cluster-fuck. Now I remember why I don't bother with virtual life, message boards and unmoderated group-think.

Well, this is a hotbed of intellectual exchange, debate and discussion, isn't it.

No one has (to this point) addressed a thing (or things) I've contended. Just the usual low-brow ping-pong.

What I've gotten for my time invested is ad hominem attacks and a Greek chorus of vague rejoinder and group self-congratulation.

Congratulations....I can't bothered.

Perhaps I should have identified myself as a Male Heterosexual Dominant of Long Experience (which I am). Or mentioned that I'm well known, respected and highly paid in my field....creative professional. Y'all respond to authority? There's some for you. I don't usually bother with that either.

Instead of advocating for sexual, gender, and political rights for those on the margins of official culture I should have claimed authority. The heat would have been less intense - I suspect my prominent mention of gay people brought out the worst sort of sublimated fear and loathing.

Although I'm sexually straight, gay folk (in S.F./NYC early on) took the time to mentor me in the fine art of BDSM (how to Top as I'm 100% Dom) before all the regular folk (like y'all) showed up.

Now, let me see. I've been accused of spewing hate by the two-headed collaboration darcyandthedark a... bad poet and a cheesy aesthete from the UK, of being an insufferable egoist by Allondra a Gorgon Headed Grandma Clampett Domme. That's gagger enough for me. I'm outta here.

One last thing....and as for Firm Hand in KY (the jelly-lube or the state?) my profile clearly says I'm an American expat - I'm not hiding it.
I couldn't stomach paying taxes there anymore - I pay more and earn less in New Zealand but I sleep better at night.

Took a punt on the boards - but like every other 'community board it's lowest common denominator rules - and now I'm back to real life for good and all (talk to and congratulate each other) .

Bye all.






Edited to add: I only got to the above quoted post before replying.

I think it was Doc who said "I'll be your huckleberry."

I am a conservative. There are extremes to the right and to the left, as you well know. I can assure you that there are a great number of folks towards the middle of the road. People like me that take nothing for granted and assume nothing based on affiliation or political views. We all have our reasons for holding the card we do. You have yours and I have mine. If live and let live is not good enough for you then you must take your card and say "Bye all" and I'm outta here" But I will debate my position until the end of time with you.

I have nothing against BDSM obviously, I have no problem standing out in the open and saying that I am a Dominant man and I like - scratch that- adore dominating a submissive. And I also say that I support our troops 100% and I support decisions to go after terrorists and I denounce anyone doing anything for the almighty dollar alone. I am a believer in the bible and all that it says about marriage and relationships and that is why I am not holding my liberal card.

Do I believe you have the right to view things the way you do? Yes, and I put my ASS on the line so that you could while you were an American. Do I believe in gay marriage? NO. Do I believe that you should have the same legal rights as a married couple without the marriage? Yes. Enough said. I'm done with my examples of why I hold the card I do. One of the great things about being an American is that I do not have to justify my beliefs to you or anyone unless I choose to.

You can come here on this or any other list and anounce that you are 100% real and imply/say that others are not, and I agree many are not, but your childish rampage made you look like a complete ass with no control. Which, I can assure you screams anything but Dominant to me. So, come back and call me names so I can chuckle to myself at how right I am and how well you prove my point. Or be a man, a Dominant and admit that you lost your cool and control. Dominants, those like myself, those not in the extreme right or the extreme left, are forgivers of all imperfection. And by the way, when you are ready to be an American again, this country will accept you regardless of your attitude.

Dolf

< Message edited by DomDolf -- 8/1/2008 7:45:47 PM >

(in reply to Augustone)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Politically Conservative BDSMers? - 8/1/2008 7:51:47 PM   
hardbodysub


Posts: 1654
Joined: 8/7/2005
Status: offline 		I think this whole thread is pretty funny. That goes for the OP as well as many of the responses. The OP actually had a legitimate point, but practically everyone failed to recognize it because he screwed up on a couple counts: (1) he didn't distinguish between fiscal and social conservativism, or acknowledge that a person could be one, yet not the other; (2) he used such an abrasive tone that people simply got their hackles raised and responded with the typical knee-jerk reaction flames. Emotions turn on --> brains turn off. Not to say that every response had no logic, but most of them missed the point rather badly.

General comments regarding the words "conservative" and "liberal":

The original (and I would say "correct", although that's just my opinion) definition of "conservative" is pretty much as the OP suggests. However, the right wing "noise machine" for the past 20 years has run a thoroughly planned propaganda campaign to redefine the words "conservative" and "liberal", by continually repeating phrases such as "tax and spend liberal", and associating the word "conservative" with virtues such as fiscal responsibility, rational thinking, pragmatism, patriotism, strong national defense, individual freedom, and defense of the Constitution.

They've been very successful. They've re-defined patriotism, convincing a lot of people that it means wearing flag lapel pins and marching unquestioningly in lock-step with the right-wing government, rather than loving your country and wanting to help it live up to the ideas and principles that it stands for. They've got a lot of people thinking that liberal is a dirty word meaning tax-and-spend, tree-hugging, wishy-washy, weak on defense, etc., etc., despite the fact that "liberal" has nothing to do with any of those things, and everything to do with open-mindedness, forward-thinking, willingness to accept new ideas and adapt to changing circumstances. Repeat a lie enough times, and a lot of people will eventually believe it.

The main actions of conservatives in our government during those 20 years have been to erode liberty (do I even have to list the stunts they've pulled here?), ignore fiscal responsibility (out-of-control spending coupled with tax breaks to the rich, leaving absurd deficits and squeezing the middle class to death), and abandon rational thinking and pragmatism (ignoring overwhelming scientific evidence of global climate change, not to mention evolution), in favor of policies that entrench the already rich and powerful, and to make our country less safe by pursuing a hidden agenda in the so-called war on terror. President Dwight D. Eisenhower, Republican, was a harbinger of the abuse of power in today's government when he warned against the emerging power of the "military-industrial complex". Such a comment would virtually get him tossed out of the Republican party today. Barry Goldwater was considered a staunch conservative in his time; most of his principles and policies would be considered liberal in today's climate.

"Political conservative" today means nothing at all, because the word has been so bastardized that nobody really knows what the hell they're talking about.

I'm an independent. I don't like the Democratic Party. But I dislike the Republican Party much more. They've been telling the most egregious lies, and doing so much in direct opposition to the most important principles of our country. Shameful.

(in reply to AtlantisKing111)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: Politically Conservative BDSMers? - 8/1/2008 8:07:41 PM   
DomDolf


Posts: 363
Joined: 7/11/2008
Status: offline 		When making a point, it is not always possible to cover all perceptions and angles but to fail to recognize how inappropriate your post is and how it will likely be received is unacceptable. There is no responsibility in that

Hardbodysub, while I do not hold your exact views, I do appreciate that your comments have some facts and are well-written. Posts like that are fuel for the alert and hungry mind. Which is why I come to these forums, to feed my mind.

Dolf

(in reply to hardbodysub)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Politically Conservative BDSMers? - 8/1/2008 8:49:10 PM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline 		Well, I am starting to think that Collarme.com is the yin that brings into balance the yang of Fox News Radio's use of the word "liberal".

I suppose that I could mention that the focus on traditional value is only one part of conservative political philosophy. There is also the focus on small government influence, business growth, capitalism, free market, personal freedom and rights, and less taxes.

Which is more than enough for any novice buisness owner and indepedant like myself to self identity as part of conservative thought....

There's also that fact that socialism doesn't work and never will....

So...you know....not all bad....

_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to Augustone)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: Politically Conservative BDSMers? - 8/1/2008 8:54:57 PM   
hardbodysub


Posts: 1654
Joined: 8/7/2005
Status: offline 		I accept your apology (in my best Stephen Colbert impression voice)
and your imperfections.

I come to these forums to get my rocks off, but every once in a while some bastard makes me think.



(in reply to DomDolf)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: Politically Conservative BDSMers? - 8/1/2008 10:01:10 PM   
DomDolf


Posts: 363
Joined: 7/11/2008
Status: offline 		Well, that took me a while to get... I was thinking apology?!?!? Then realized the Colbert reference... He cracks me up.

I guess I'm not done commenting... lol

I understood his point, no matter how much I disagreed with his delivery or the content. I also disagree with many opinions about conservatives, but have no problem with the the fact that those with them have them. I am a republican, a business owner, a father of four and very in tune with reality. I do not agree with everything the republicans do or have done. I also don't hold grudges against liberals for the problems (my opinion) they have caused in our country over the years.

My very individual and selfish opinions are formed in large part due to observations made while serving in the service under Reagan, Busch, Clinton and G.W. Busch and witnessing first hand the affect that our CONGRESS has had in things. Another large part is my views as a father and hopes and dreams I have for the world my children will raise their children in.

Our country's popular political opinion is formed around a president often without recognizing the congress in session. It would be horrible for a democratic congress to allow good things to happen and to not make fun of or blame a republican President for all the woes that began with a democrat in the oval office. Often forgotten is that we have a Doppler Effect that sometimes causes waves seen only after the next President or congress is in place. Working as a team to accomplish important goals would be too much to ask because the politics of getting your party in the oval office is more important than the people and their needs. For those that may not be following my point... To do anything to achieve a bi-partisan goal at this point would only help make the President look good and that might prevent Obama from getting in office. Observe this, our next President WILL get undue credit for things he has had zero to do with just because the positive things done recently will not show until after he is in office.

I posted my comments because the OP sounds like someone that is demanding respect through BS and smoke and mirrors. I almost have to ask whether the submissive he was probably making a point to was impressed with his domliness.

Like I said in an earlier post, I cannot cover all perceptions. I hope we are all mature enough to understand the points made don't necessarily mean that all possible information is offered and mature enough not to point out how obvious it is that not everyone is that mature. I have a fairly strict policy of not discussing politics, which I am obviously doing. I will not be posting on the political side of this topic again. It truly is a hot button for many. I'm too tired to have written this post... lol


Off topic-

Inevitably there will be some out there doing the math on my experiences, so as a one time explanation, I am posting it here. I will be 37 this month. I joined the military when I was 17 and am a disabled veteran. I am not disfigured or by any means as bad as many, my injuries were a dislocated shoulder, broken back and over-extended knee that ended my career early. Other than some limited range of motion, I am in perfect health. I was offered a desk job, but that would have killed me to see all the other guys having all the fun.

Now for a proud father moment... I have three boys and a girl aged 19 to 10. My oldest joined the Army yesterday. Of course I wish we were not at war and he would not be exposed to things I have been. He has decided to become a combat medic because he wants to help people. I could not be more proud of his decision to do so. If he would have wanted to follow in my foot steps and go Airborne Infantry I would be proud too, but his desire to help others is an overwhelming testament to his becoming a good man. 

Dolf

< Message edited by DomDolf -- 8/1/2008 10:17:21 PM >

(in reply to hardbodysub)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: Politically Conservative BDSMers? - 8/1/2008 10:41:04 PM   
hardbodysub


Posts: 1654
Joined: 8/7/2005
Status: offline 		Good to have you here, Dolf. Someone I can respectfully disagree with, and maybe even agree on some things.

(in reply to DomDolf)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Politically Conservative BDSMers? - 8/1/2008 10:54:30 PM   
DomDolf


Posts: 363
Joined: 7/11/2008
Status: offline 		Thank you hardbody. My sentiments exactly.

Dolf

(in reply to hardbodysub)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Politically Conservative BDSMers? - 8/1/2008 11:14:05 PM   
Leatherist


Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline 		Conservatism is perfect for bdsm.

D/s and perversity-it's very republican.

_____________________________

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I'm not taking custom orders.

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RE: Politically Conservative BDSMers? - 8/2/2008 8:03:05 AM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scare_quotes

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

Never heard of "scare quotes" however.

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Politically Conservative BDSMers? - 8/2/2008 8:17:04 AM   
SteelofUtah


Posts: 5307
Joined: 10/2/2007
From: St George Utah
Status: offline 		** Bashed Head into Wall for 30 Minutes to Achieve Proper Mental Faculties for this thread**

Look I'm a Conservative. Not Staunch, there is plenty of shit I don't care about, like what happens in people bedrooms or who marrys a Goat or thier own sister for that matter. I don't care if Gays are in the Military, in fact I kinda want the person who is supposed to be coverin my ass to be slightly attracted to it, cause that Bastard will be making sure I make it out alive.

I do care about the current condition of my great nation of America, I am concerned about what America now stands for. I am More conserned that apparently we need to be accepting of everyone and everyone is supposed to do whatever they want and who cares about maintaining an economic shelf give everyone who wants one a piece of the american pie.

HOWEVER to me I cannot understand what the hell Conservative, Liberal, or Democratic has to do with BDSM? Each individual makes thier own minds up. I found what worked for me and I try not to discuss Politics, Religion, or Virginity with people who aren't involved in my life in a personal stake... and Why don't I do this?

Because I'm not a glutton for punishment.

Steel

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(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: Politically Conservative BDSMers? - 8/2/2008 8:18:51 AM   
Aynne


Posts: 740
Joined: 1/25/2008
Status: offline 		 
I agree. Dolf, if you haven't already check out the Offtopic discussions, you can definitely add to the fray over there.

You mention your views on gay marriage and I respect that you don't feel the need to explain them, fair enough. I am always confused tho when someone says that gays should have all of the same rights except the actual marriage. I have heard the same arguments that it is for religious reasons, or for reason of child rearing. Both of those bear no weight with me being childless by choice and a secular humanist. Well actually they would not hold weight barring those circumstances either. Hopefully someday this country will evolve enough to allow two consenting adults to participate legally and fully in the marriage process.  As a straight heterosexual woman I certainly don't  think that allowing gays and lesbians the right to marry will somehow effect my marital status, or anyone else's.


quote:

ORIGINAL: hardbodysub

Good to have you here, Dolf. Someone I can respectfully disagree with, and maybe even agree on some things.


_____________________________

*Yes I know I have no profile at this time...

I looked in your eyes
Without saying a word
I told you what I am
And I hoped that you heard

~Owned and Loved by Master Sifu~

*founder of I Love Lushy Inc.*

(in reply to hardbodysub)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Politically Conservative BDSMers? - 8/2/2008 8:22:08 AM   
Aynne


Posts: 740
Joined: 1/25/2008
Status: offline 		Look I'm a Conservative. Not Staunch, there is plenty of shit I don't care about, like what happens in people bedrooms or who marrys a Goat or thier own sister for that matter. I don't care if Gays are in the Military, in fact I kinda want the person who is supposed to be coverin my ass to be slightly attracted to it, cause that Bastard will be making sure I make it out alive.
 
 
 
Yay Steel!  Great post.




_____________________________

*Yes I know I have no profile at this time...

I looked in your eyes
Without saying a word
I told you what I am
And I hoped that you heard

~Owned and Loved by Master Sifu~

*founder of I Love Lushy Inc.*

(in reply to SteelofUtah)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Politically Conservative BDSMers? - 8/2/2008 9:05:26 AM   
slavekal


Posts: 1486
Joined: 7/20/2004
Status: offline 		To be in this lifestyle and align with social conservatives is true masochism.  Those bible thumpers would have us all in prison if they could.  Libertarian is really the only thinking person's philosophy.  If you believe that the government should not and does not have the right to tell you what to do behind closed doors (or in public for that matter), then you are libertarian.

(in reply to Augustone)
Profile   Post #: 80
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