Politically Conservative BDSMers? (Full Version)

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Augustone -> Politically Conservative BDSMers? (8/1/2008 1:20:13 AM)

I'm not going to pretend to be tolerant. I'm not. I won't.

I discriminate based on my experience of the world. The decision to do so is no different than deciding to discriminate aesthetically.

To the point:

Either I've not paid enough attention before or there are simply more submissives who describe their politics as 'conservative' than I recall. Those submissives (I've seen too many lately) that describe themselves as conservative usually stipulate that they want a conservative Dom.

I don't recall the scenes where I was introduced to BDSM practice ( I loathe the term lifestyle) having anyone willing to identify as conservative.

Let me be blunt. The politically conservative are inextricably affiliated with 'official' culture. Official culture is imposed culture. BDSM, arising spontaneously from need, is authentic unofficial culture.

Never the twain shall meet.

It frankly turns my stomach to think of milk (conservatives) and blood (BDSM) mixing.





Diphon -> RE: Politically Conservative BDSMers? (8/1/2008 2:08:54 AM)

Knowing ahead of time how this thread, like two tanker planes colliding head-on in mid air, going to erupt into a massive ball of fire and twisted metal. I contemplated just not going here, but I am anyway.

I am a "Conservative." My slave is for all intents and purposes a Socialist. Politics however do not form the foundation of our love or our relationship  I know many dominants and submissives who are also conservatives. I have no idea what your talking about "imposed" culture I do not, nor any other conservative I know believe in or support  imposing our beliefs on others. Most of us feel that people should be allowed to carry out their lives as they see fit with a minimum of societal or government involvement in said lives. but then again maybe I'm just a bad conservative who spent more time reading about Siberian Shamanism than the christian bible. maybe I spent too much time on a horse when I was a kid when I should have gone to Sunday school. Why don't you spend more time helping the EVIL IGNORANT CONSERVATIVES to become educated and understanding of BDSM instead of so much effort worrying about our having the same interests.

P.s. love the milk and blood comment it was cute.



submisty323 -> RE: Politically Conservative BDSMers? (8/1/2008 2:18:59 AM)

no offense to you, but that is very naive thinking, I don't think u fully understand what a "conservative" point is



submisty323 -> RE: Politically Conservative BDSMers? (8/1/2008 2:21:36 AM)

Diphon.....cheers, love ure response, right on



submisty323 -> RE: Politically Conservative BDSMers? (8/1/2008 2:29:26 AM)

oh and btw, no offense, but you misinterpret  nietzsche in your quote on your profile...but that of course is just my opinion



Augustone -> RE: Politically Conservative BDSMers? (8/1/2008 3:24:57 AM)


Dictionary.com:

Conservative -

1. disposed to preserve existing conditions, institutions, etc., or to restore traditional ones, and to limit change.


I think my use of the phrase "official culture" is a fairly accurate paraphrase of that definition.


As for the new sub who questions my interpretation(?) of Nietzsche. I'll not dignify her wee puff of misty bullshit with a reply.


Diphon Quote: "I do not, nor any other conservative I know believe in or support imposing our beliefs on others."

If that statement is in fact true then good on you and those you know.
Unfortunately, if it's politics we are talking about when using the word conservative then by default that means laws and policy.
Conservative laws and policies are (like the dictionary definition) disposed to preserve existing conditions, institutions, etc., or to restore traditional ones, and to limit change.
Again, that sounds like official culture to me.

I've lived long enough to see conservative policies try to preserve discrimination against blacks, women and gays. I've seen conservative legislators try to legislate the preservation of traditional marriage by denying same sex couples the right to marry. I've seen conservative policies and laws force my best friend (15 at the time) to get an abortion in a Mexican border town.

Now, Diphon, you and your friends can claim to not "believe in or support imposing our beliefs on others" till the cows come home. But if you espouse, promote, vote for, and support politicians that identify as conservative then you and your friends (by proxy) impose your beliefs on others through law and enforcement.

BDSM is not looked on kindly (although it is practiced secretly behind closed & privileged doors by our conservative brethren) in conservative circles. And in regions of the world where conservative politicians and policies prevail it's against the law.

Now, I submit that closeted gay conservative politicians who vote against gay anti-discrimination law and vote for preservation of marriage acts ( a euphemism for laws that deny same sex couples the right to formalize love unions) and continue to fuck their same sex partners are hypoctites ....and folks who claim to be BDSM positives and conservative at the same time fall neatly into the category of philistine as well. Both of these deviant political sub-sets are as one. They depend on privilege of one kind or another to continue to indulge in what they make difficult or impossible for others less privileged to indulge in without the risk of experiencing the weight of law.

I am old enough to remember vice squads breaking in on public and private BDSM scenes. Believe me when I tell you it wasn't the politically progressives who sent the cops it bwas conservatives.

Plain and simple enough for you to understand now?






Lynnxz -> RE: Politically Conservative BDSMers? (8/1/2008 3:37:07 AM)

I'm going to ignore the awkward argument going on above for a second, just to point out that a couple of pro dommes and I have noted that 99% of our clients tend to be older, white, conservative men. [>:]  Soo... can't really agree with you on that one.



RCdc -> RE: Politically Conservative BDSMers? (8/1/2008 3:37:10 AM)

You are just spewing hate propaganda and misinformation, no different to any other fundementalist.  I see you no different to any fundemental conservative who spews their own agenda - it's nothing more than like for like.
 
the.dark.



Focus50 -> RE: Politically Conservative BDSMers? (8/1/2008 4:04:41 AM)

And you think the problem is with all these "conservative" submissives?  They usually recommend some form of therapy for those so caught up in their own self-importance that they obsess over matters so petty....  They even made an award winning comedy along a similar theme; headlined by an equally elitist radio shrink in Seattle - sound familiar?
 
Anyhoo, is it not remotely possible that those describing themselves as "conservative" (or seeking the same) weren't even talking about politics?
 
Focus.



Level -> RE: Politically Conservative BDSMers? (8/1/2008 4:08:45 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

You are just spewing hate propaganda and misinformation, no different to any other fundementalist.  I see you no different to any fundemental conservative who spews their own agenda - it's nothing more than like for like.
 
the.dark.

 
I agree with the pretty lady.



Allondra -> RE: Politically Conservative BDSMers? (8/1/2008 4:17:46 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Augustone

It frankly turns my stomach to think of milk (conservatives) and blood (BDSM) mixing.



Here's some Pepto Bismol, sweets.  Not sure what'll help the insufferable ego problem, though....





FirmhandKY -> RE: Politically Conservative BDSMers? (8/1/2008 4:22:45 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

You are just spewing hate propaganda and misinformation, no different to any other fundementalist.  I see you no different to any fundemental conservative who spews their own agenda - it's nothing more than like for like.
 
the.dark.


uhhhhhh.   Bingo! Excellent observation dark!

I've found as many (if not more) "liberals" to be closed minded than many "conservatives" that I've known in my life.  And I've known many of both strip.

Observation:

Notice the parens around both terms.  There is good reason for that, as both terms are variously defined, used and misused and depend much on the politics of the individual, as well as their national and cultural environment.

The OP's profile says New Zealand, yet he talks about experiences in the US (friend having an abortion in Mexico), so I assume he is an ex-pat.

Firm



TreasureKY -> RE: Politically Conservative BDSMers? (8/1/2008 4:23:16 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Augustone

It frankly turns my stomach to think of milk (conservatives) and blood (BDSM) mixing.


Then don't think of it.  [8|]



thishereboi -> RE: Politically Conservative BDSMers? (8/1/2008 4:44:22 AM)

I have had many people tell me, that if you are gay, then you can not be conservative.

I thought that had to be one of the silliest things I had ever heard. Then I read the OP......



Dnomyar -> RE: Politically Conservative BDSMers? (8/1/2008 4:48:40 AM)

Whatever. The Mod is going to remove this post from here anyway.



katie978 -> RE: Politically Conservative BDSMers? (8/1/2008 4:51:43 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Augustone
It frankly turns my stomach to think of milk (conservatives) and blood (BDSM) mixing.


So what are liberals then? Soda? Whiskey? Chocolate milk? ...It frankly turns my stomach trying to imagine an appetizing mixture including blood and any other liquid.

 I hardly believe that any liberal politician is going to be pro-BDSM. They might go so far to say, "People can do whatever they want, it's none of my concern", but I can't really picture Obama at a pro-kink event. Do you think he'd wear leather to respect our culture?

  You clearly state that you believe all conservatives are exactly like their politicians. The anti-gay politician screwing men in airport bathrooms. However, in my experience, limited and un-important though it might be, there are no stereotypes living in our world. Undoubtedly there are some conservatives who are exactly as the ones you describe, stoic and uncompromising in their beliefs, moral and righteous up the wazoo, and leading some sort of naughty sexual double life.
    However, the majority of conservatives I have met on my travels were well-spoken, open to political debate, and incredibly well-versed on the subject of their beliefs. That's much more than I can say for most of the liberals I meet (since they believe sticking the "I hate Bush" bumper sticker on their car qualifies).
  
    To me, political or religion or class or any other determining characteristic doesn't make a person. I'd rather date a staunch conservative (I'm liberal, my own self. Or, somewhere in between), than a hippie with unbending beliefs that they are unwilling to discuss or consider, lest consideration lead them to change their minds.

  I would, however, avoid the self-righteous fanatical asses at either end, since I don't believe there is "one twue way" for anything in life.



Augustone -> RE: Politically Conservative BDSMers? (8/1/2008 4:53:50 AM)

Oooooooh a message board cluster-fuck. Now I remember why I don't bother with virtual life, message boards and unmoderated group-think.

Well, this is a hotbed of intellectual exchange, debate and discussion, isn't it.

No one has (to this point) addressed a thing (or things) I've contended. Just the usual low-brow ping-pong.

What I've gotten for my time invested is ad hominem attacks and a Greek chorus of vague rejoinder and group self-congratulation.

Congratulations....I can't bothered.

Perhaps I should have identified myself as a Male Heterosexual Dominant of Long Experience (which I am). Or mentioned that I'm well known, respected and highly paid in my field....creative professional. Y'all respond to authority? There's some for you. I don't usually bother with that either.

Instead of advocating for sexual, gender, and political rights for those on the margins of official culture I should have claimed authority. The heat would have been less intense - I suspect my prominent mention of gay people brought out the worst sort of sublimated fear and loathing.

Although I'm sexually straight, gay folk (in S.F./NYC early on) took the time to mentor me in the fine art of BDSM (how to Top as I'm 100% Dom) before all the regular folk (like y'all) showed up.

Now, let me see. I've been accused of spewing hate by the two-headed collaboration darcyandthedark a... bad poet and a cheesy aesthete from the UK, of being an insufferable egoist by Allondra a Gorgon Headed Grandma Clampett Domme. That's gagger enough for me. I'm outta here.

One last thing....and as for Firm Hand in KY (the jelly-lube or the state?) my profile clearly says I'm an American expat - I'm not hiding it.
I couldn't stomach paying taxes there anymore - I pay more and earn less in New Zealand but I sleep better at night.

Took a punt on the boards - but like every other 'community board it's lowest common denominator rules - and now I'm back to real life for good and all (talk to and congratulate each other) .

Bye all.






Dnomyar -> RE: Politically Conservative BDSMers? (8/1/2008 4:56:18 AM)

I wonder if I bust this guys ballon he will fly in zig zag fashion.



Asmodeus -> RE: Politically Conservative BDSMers? (8/1/2008 5:01:07 AM)

I actually have a post about people like the OP in my journal here. Otherwise normal seeming people who at some point in their profile or conversation begin to spew some sort of odious bile about another group with whom they don't agree, usually based on race, politics, or socio-economic position.

People like that tend to have other irrational hatreds that are rarely confined to the single topic that they think will garner enough support to spout about in public. And they will often retreat to their vacuous high-ground when they realize that the audience they are preaching to isn't their choir.

ETA - LOL. The OP followed the standard pattern while I was responding having only seen the thread to the message a couple posts above his "exit flame".

These types are always pretty funny; standard response mechanisms then a self-gratifying exit speech that makes the inane presumption that anyone actually cares what they have to say after they have outed themselves as a "insert troll species here."



Allondra -> RE: Politically Conservative BDSMers? (8/1/2008 5:04:42 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Augustone

I I've been accused of [....] being an insufferable egoist by Allondra a Gorgon Headed Grandma Clampett Domme.



Heyhey, the Great One noticed me!  And now I have a quote to put in my .sig!!  Oh, this is a great day so far.

-- Allondra the Gorgon Headed Grandma Clampett Domme.  *snort*



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