The Predator Dom- arch-villain or over-hyped phantom ? (Full Version)

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Jacques1000 -> The Predator Dom- arch-villain or over-hyped phantom ? (11/18/2005 5:20:04 AM)


Recently, I responded to a post about Covenants of Care and Protection and it got me thinking.

I have an agreement with a a woman of 18 who is vulnerable, adorable, but has been open to unscrupulous predation by Doms who have exploited rather than nurture her.
The culprit is on this site, and acting in a way that was totally inexcusable, at one stage threatening the under-age girl with releasing compromising pictures to the Principal of the school where she attended. He is also known to me as I had occassion to cut one of his victims down from a very hardcore session that the sub was unaware was about to unfold. Hard limits such as blood, knife and needle play were not observed. The poor woman was traumatised but lucky she had a voice-recognition cellular phone. However, she has been lost to the 'commununity' because of this.

The second example is a much older woman who is "dipping her toes" into BDSM. She got involved online with a UK Dom who was an absolute asshole and deceived her very badly. She had a very intense online relationship, and partly due to inexperience, dived into the deep end. She came to me asking if I thought the Dom she was involved with was acting appropriately. He was clearly not, and was clearly inexperienced and probably married and almost certainly a good groomer and liar. Needless to say, when she and I tried to organise a conference chat on Yahoo, he scarpered.

It seems to me that those newest to BDSM communities, or those that are psychologically vulnerable are the most susceptible to predators. I have been around for a long time (but not necessarily in communities like this) and I always advise newbies to give themselves six months and have as much fun and learning as they can handle. Of course, this never happens, but.......my question is:

WHAT ARE YOUR EXPERIENCES OF THE PREDATOR DOM AND WHAT TACTICS AND TECHNIQUES HAVE YOU USED TO REPEL THEM ?

I have often thought there should be a retaliatory dungeon for serious and serial offenders and when living in Europe heard (urban legend?) accounts of miscreant Doms being ambushed and abducted for "re-education" by small group of 'vigilante Doms'. In a r/t ftf environment sanction and censure is easier.

WHAT MECHANISMS ARE NEEDED TO ENSURE PREDATOR DOMS ARE IDENTIFIED APPROPRIATELY and FAIRLY and RE-EDUCATED ?

I'd welcome your views.


Master Jacques





LuckyAlbatross -> RE: The Predator Dom- arch-villain or over-hyped phantom ? (11/18/2005 5:43:31 AM)

I've never had a predator that I couldn't laugh in the face of OR just cut out of my life by not taking their calls and blocking them (and I've only had to do that twice).

If you spend your life being hero to cute little girls, you're never going to be happy and always disappointed. You're not a therapist, you're not a healer, these are adult women who need to learn how to make good judgements for themselves and possibly a lot more. They might be submissives but they obviously have lacking life skills.

Dealing with predators online simply means ignoring them as soon as you realize what they are (and, except for the very very few dangerous ones, you can learn to spot them within 2 minutes).

Dealing with predators offline means telling them to stop, explaining what the consequences will be if they do not, make your CLOSE FRIENDS aware of the situation and move on with your life (not send out random bulletins to every single message board you are on). If the issue becomes more dangerous, I fully advocate making reports to the police.

As far as re-education, that's only going to happen if the person wants- this is for both the predator and the prey.







MstrssPassion -> RE: The Predator Dom- arch-villain or over-hyped phantom ? (11/18/2005 5:47:41 AM)

There are numerous threads that have addressed this very subject.

I respect your concern, but there really is no resolve.

Abuse happens in every aspect of society. Even in 'accepted' quote/unquote "NORMAL" relationships, abuse happens. Law-makers have not adequately covered these type of relationships.

I hate to hear about persons being abused in the manner you described, but these people have to assume some responsibility of self. Often they jump in & place themselves in unsafe situations.

There are even cases of long-term relationships that blow-up with accusations of abuse.

We cannot even hope to police our type of relationships. Very sad, but true.





Jacques1000 -> RE: The Predator Dom- arch-villain or over-hyped phantom ? (11/18/2005 5:55:42 AM)


a couple of assumptions I like to pick up on...

Firstly, I am happy and contented, both with play partners and life partner. Neither precludes me from taking an active interest in the welfare of others...in BDSM or vanilla contexts....to me this is the very ethos of vibrant community.

As with welfare extended to people in other aspects of my life it has nothing to do with me being a hero but merely engaging the world as a halfpie caring, compassionate human being. Their Life skills has nothing to do with, not does their intelligence. I am grateful you've never had to be cut down, or raped and whilst reporting to the Police is theoretically fine for sub-criminal offences there remains little remedy.

Perhaps I am engaged in "prey education" then.




IrishMist -> RE: The Predator Dom- arch-villain or over-hyped phantom ? (11/18/2005 5:56:27 AM)

Well, seeing as how I fit into the "category" of inexperienced...

I have found that the best way, so far ( and I have in no way been exploited the way that your friends have), is to keep a level head, arm myself with knowledge, be totally honest in what I want, and not back down when I am insulted.

I have already had a few instances of hate mail because I refuse to either give out my phone number, participate in a "cyber" session, etc. I just laugh, delete, and then forget these so called men.

Now, the few experiences that I have had in a scene related way, have all been extremely positive. The Dom I was with was very patient with me, very understanding, and very respectful of the fact that I did not know my own limits. I was never pressured to try something that I felt I could not handle ( it only ended because of distance issues ).

I really do believe that those who are "the predator Dom", are very easy to spot. If someone is pushing for information too fast, telling you that you are too "agressive" in your denial, etc...for me, they are pretty easy to spot; and therefore, to ignore. But, on the other hand, I have had alot of time to sit back, educate myself ( arm myself in other words), and just kind of watch others and learn.




Jacques1000 -> RE: The Predator Dom- arch-villain or over-hyped phantom ? (11/18/2005 5:59:54 AM)


thanks, a very thoughtful response which made me think alot.

OK, but this has occurred, He is on this site with picture proudly adorning profile....I am not sure why this site just doesn't have a messageboard which is a free for all where these people can be taken to task. I am not sure how even archiving this would help the new and unsuspecting....and it is these people who are the most susceptible....they don't know about safewords or safety precautions--why would that ?
There are high on trust and intoxicated by finding a community that shares their interests......great post.





Jacques1000 -> RE: The Predator Dom- arch-villain or over-hyped phantom ? (11/18/2005 6:01:20 AM)


agreed, that online is easier. The Offline stuff is harder to guard against....




LuckyAlbatross -> RE: The Predator Dom- arch-villain or over-hyped phantom ? (11/18/2005 6:02:11 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jacques1000
I am not sure why this site just doesn't have a messageboard which is a free for all where these people can be taken to task.

And then who would prevent someone like me making awful horrible accusations about you?

quote:

they don't know about safewords or safety precautions--why would that ?

If they are mature responsible adults, they know all the safety precautions they need to know to avoid someone who's going to be a bad influence in their lives.




candystripper -> RE: The Predator Dom- arch-villain or over-hyped phantom ? (11/18/2005 6:04:10 AM)

i've been lead down the garden path a few times, and now, i feel it is easier to spot SOME liars...but i also accept i'll never be better than the best of them, so i insist on verifiable information before we meet in r/l; i do not meet Men in my home; i do not play/have sex with someone i just met; etc.

There are also precautions i have used as per my computer.

In the end, looking back, i can say in each case my instincts were telling me something i did not want to hear....and i have resolved to listen to them more.

candystripper




IrishMist -> RE: The Predator Dom- arch-villain or over-hyped phantom ? (11/18/2005 6:04:42 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jacques1000


agreed, that online is easier. The Offline stuff is harder to guard against....


Very true, I will grant you that. I am a cautious and suspicious person though ( mainly because when asked to meet someone, it's not only me that I have to think of, I also have a child to consider), so, I go at a very slow pace when asked for a meeting of any kind.




Jacques1000 -> RE: The Predator Dom- arch-villain or over-hyped phantom ? (11/18/2005 6:11:00 AM)


People would be free to make awful allegations against me.

By my deeds, rather than my words, shall I be know.

In any case, there is a 'body of evidence' created however loose and discursive,
and people could make up there own minds. People posting there know the
other person has the right of reply.

However, if anyone had come forth in over 6 years then I would hope that I would know about it. If I have done things illegal, I'd hope people would prosecute.




OsideGirl -> RE: The Predator Dom- arch-villain or over-hyped phantom ? (11/18/2005 6:24:10 AM)

This is one of the reasons why I think it's important for submissive to have a mentor that is a submissive within their own community. Things like ignoring limits, ignoring safewords and abuse spread pretty quickly.

The things is that a large portion of people throw common sense out the window when they come into the D/s BDSM realm. The information needed is out there, they just need to go looking for it. Many don't bother doing any due diligence. Many of these people end up being serial victims because of their own choices.

You can't prevent all of it, but using your head will prevent most of it.




subaltern1 -> RE: The Predator Dom- arch-villain or over-hyped phantom ? (11/18/2005 6:28:18 AM)

I agree with you. I wish I had had this myself when I was a newbie.

I would have also liked a GuardianDom like Jacques1000 was proposing. Both would have been great. Because I am Indian there is a fair degree of opposition to alternative lifestyle in the community i grew up in....I had virtually no support. I read widely so was well-informed but there is nothing like some experienced guiding hands.

I note that may subs are willing to do this but not many Doms. Why is that ?




LuckyAlbatross -> RE: The Predator Dom- arch-villain or over-hyped phantom ? (11/18/2005 6:30:45 AM)

The problem of course being that if they aren't using their skills and good heads enough to avoid yucky doms, how are they going to avoid yucky mentors? Blind luck?




RiotGirl -> RE: The Predator Dom- arch-villain or over-hyped phantom ? (11/18/2005 6:51:08 AM)

hiya Jacques,

i'm gonna go against the majority here and say it can be very hard to distinguish good guys from bad guys. Usually because the bad guys are really good at disguising themselves into good guys. Many people never seem to realise this. If all bad guys looked like a bad guy, we wouldnt have a problem kicking them to the curb. If one has ever been down the road, and actually been prey, they come to realize this. IMO i think everyone becomes prey at one time or another. Just different faces/types of evil.

As for criminal recourse.... Gawd, NEVER go to the cops. Cops literally, rhetorically, and consistantly suck. i could cite incident after incident of them just being too lazy and not caring enough. Seriously folks, these days the cops would rather shoot our kitties out of the tree then save them. Remember folks, its all about the quota - whether its you or the bad guys filling it, the cops dun really care.

BEST WAY TO SPOT EM

i havent got a clue, except for my own methods. i watch the story line. Does it add up? i watch the lines of the story, do they add up? i watch between the lines of the story, does it add up? Basically, does the picture they paint of themselves consistant? Does any of their words conflict with any of their other words? Finally, do the things they dont say, their actions conflict or add up to what they say and do? Usually, their actual words are meaningless to me. i could care less if they like animals, or do this or that, or are like this or are like that. What do they do? Do the words add up to what they do? Of course, do the words add up together, what kind of picture do they WANT me to see?

i maybe abit jaded, but i never take anything at face value. Once i have actions, and words, and between the lines, i put the pieces together. Does my puzzle equal what they SAY their puzzle is, or is it different? (usually its different)

Of course, i always look at how they react to me. My most jaded view is, i always look for their motive in talking to me. What are they hoping to get, what do they want, whats the point/purpose. i look, i push, i pull i test.

And on top of all that, i keep my emotions out of it. i keep myself back. Way far back. i dont personally get involved, i dont invest myself. i dont show myself. You get really good when, you seem to invest yourself, or invest enough of yourself that they THINK you are invested. Which is a real bonus, because once the predators THINK you are invested, they tend to start moving in. The picture starts to become clearer. You start to see them for who they really are. You can see them start to use YOUR words to manipulate you, to play you, twist your mind.

they're are preds who are really good at being preds
they're are preds who are really very dumb
they're are preds who are just plain amatuers.

The best way to stop them, is to become one yourself. The more you deal with, the more you see, the easier it is to put the pieces to the puzzle together.

This is the little dance i call Poker for life. (finding out whats in the others persons hand, before they see yours)

Remember : Dont invest yourself.

AS for Vigilantism

Sure, i'd go after ppl i knew were screwed up. But as for people OTHER people say are screwed up, well then i'd have to figure out their motives and put the pieces of the puzzle together again.

people lie and people only want you to know the best things about them




subaltern1 -> RE: The Predator Dom- arch-villain or over-hyped phantom ? (11/18/2005 7:00:10 AM)


no, not blind luck...would it not be that is where the community kicks in ?




happypervert -> RE: The Predator Dom- arch-villain or over-hyped phantom ? (11/18/2005 7:07:11 AM)

quote:

I would have also liked a GuardianDom

Of course the best tactic for the predator is to portray himself as the guardian, mentor, or knight in shining armor. Maybe having a guardian dom isn't such a good idea.




LuckyAlbatross -> RE: The Predator Dom- arch-villain or over-hyped phantom ? (11/18/2005 7:12:20 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: subaltern1
no, not blind luck...would it not be that is where the community kicks in ?

Kicks in how? All these guys we're talking about- the good and the bad are ALL in "the community." A sucky guy to you might just be this persons dreamboy.

It's not our place to say who can have relationships with who and how they can do it. I don't want to be meddled with in my choices.




Jacques1000 -> RE: The Predator Dom- arch-villain or over-hyped phantom ? (11/18/2005 7:15:22 AM)


appreciated your post. I am not so sure EVERYONE wants to tell you ONLY the good things.
A conversation with me would be pretty short :D


The point about investing is a good one. I guess from my point of view, having identified that they are people out there who need to be informed, how do you that so both Ds and Subs can act.

Should I, for example, send a copy of this thread to the sadist I referred to, and then what ?
He simply puts his photo, changes his profile and goes merrily about his business...

Unfortunately, just taking a kalashnikov and shooting him is illegal in this country :D




Jacques1000 -> Don't you hate duplicate posts (11/18/2005 7:15:31 AM)

:D




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