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RE: Why Can't Many Muslim Women Compete in The Olympics? - 8/10/2008 6:02:02 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		When will your crusade,..err bad reference, when will your effort, to end discrimination in Saudi culture begin?

You`re truly an awesome dude to care.

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RE: Why Can't Many Muslim Women Compete in The Olympics? - 8/10/2008 6:07:49 PM   
FatDomDaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: opposingtwilight

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Fat people suffer a huge amount of discrimination,abuse and bigotry in most every culture.


Where`s the outrage?.....


I just read the thread twice and don't see what that has to do with anything else that was said here. I'm confused.



So is he.

Somehow he thinks George Bush is reponsible and that the discrimination against Women in Saudi Arabia is diffrent than the discrimination agains Blacks in the old South Africa.

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RE: Why Can't Many Muslim Women Compete in The Olympics? - 8/10/2008 6:07:57 PM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

crusade



Ha!

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RE: Why Can't Many Muslim Women Compete in The Olympics? - 8/10/2008 6:10:01 PM   
FatDomDaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

You`re truly an awesome dude to care.


Why don't you?

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RE: Why Can't Many Muslim Women Compete in The Olympics? - 8/10/2008 6:15:43 PM   
kdsub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

(fast reply to both)

Would you ever allow a majority white nation to ban black athletes?

Seriously... why do some find sexism more palatable than racism?

There are no doubt tens of thousands of Saudi women who wish they could 86 thier burkas and vails and compete in athletics.


You may be wrong... If whites were to band blacks it would be racism...but what if blacks did not want to compete because of their religion? Then it would not be racism at all.

I do believe the majority of Muslim women do not think it appropriate for women to compete under those circumstances.

Not every country or religion in the world has to agree with our mores…I think it is a choice even if we don’t agree with it.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 8/10/2008 6:16:42 PM >

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RE: Why Can't Many Muslim Women Compete in The Olympics? - 8/10/2008 6:27:38 PM   
FatDomDaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I do believe the majority of Muslim women do not think it appropriate for women to compete under those circumstances.




What about the minority that do?

< Message edited by FatDomDaddy -- 8/10/2008 6:31:24 PM >

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RE: Why Can't Many Muslim Women Compete in The Olympics? - 8/10/2008 6:30:38 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: opposingtwilight

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Fat people suffer a huge amount of discrimination,abuse and bigotry in most every culture.


Where`s the outrage?.....


I just read the thread twice and don't see what that has to do with anything else that was said here. I'm confused.



So is he.

Somehow he thinks George Bush is reponsible and that the discrimination against Women in Saudi Arabia is diffrent than the discrimination agains Blacks in the old South Africa.


<chuckles>




You get tonight`s  "putting words in other`s mouths"prize.

How did I say shrub is responsible?

I said Apartheid wasn`t quite the same thing as this.And it isn`t.

Where`s the death squads ,warm guns and shallow graves in Saudi Arabia over this?

You remind me of the members who always make nazi and Holocaust references to make their points.It makes them seem extreme and thoughtless.

I think you belittle  the suffering in SA durring Apartied ,by comparing it to this.

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 8/10/2008 6:34:34 PM >

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"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

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RE: Why Can't Many Muslim Women Compete in The Olympics? - 8/10/2008 6:37:44 PM   
FatDomDaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Where`s the death squads ,warm guns and shallow graves in Saudi Arabia over this?



Generally, the adulterous women, rape victims, women who dishonor their fathers by having premarital sex or by disobedience in dress, dishonoring their husbands, fathers, uncles, Imams and such are beaten or stoned to death, guns are not needed.

The shallow graves?

Well, perhaps the Arabian Desert will one day give up its dead.

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RE: Why Can't Many Muslim Women Compete in The Olympics? - 8/10/2008 6:37:47 PM   
kdsub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I do believe the majority of Muslim women do not think it appropriate for women to compete under those circumstances.




What about the minority that do?


Laws my friend are made by the majority...I'd love to smoke pot and walk naked down my street but the law says no...but I'm sure there is a minority that wants to do just that.

At least smoke pot...lol

Butch

(in reply to FatDomDaddy)
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RE: Why Can't Many Muslim Women Compete in The Olympics? - 8/10/2008 6:40:49 PM   
Naira


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Status: offline 		First question is why the Olympics are held in a country that treats their citizens so badly in the first place. A few weeks ago, the Chinese government had an entire neighborhood of Beijing destroyed to make way for development. They didn't compensate the people who were living there.

But yes...I also agree that keeping women from competing isn't the mark of a nation who's understanding of the spirit of the games.

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RE: Why Can't Many Muslim Women Compete in The Olympics? - 8/10/2008 6:47:56 PM   
FatDomDaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub


You may be wrong... If whites were to band blacks it would be racism...but what if blacks did not want to compete because of their religion? Then it would not be racism at all.

I do believe the majority of Muslim women do not think it appropriate for women to compete under those circumstances.

Not every country or religion in the world has to agree with our mores…I think it is a choice even if we don’t agree with it.

Butch


Saudi Arabia competes in the Olympic Games via the invitation of the IOC. The IOC has authority over who competes, not the laws of a Nation State.

The IOC has and does stop countries with discriminatory policies toward minority athletes from competing.

The Saudis and other Islamic countries are given a pass.

Why?


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RE: Why Can't Many Muslim Women Compete in The Olympics? - 8/10/2008 6:48:26 PM   
kdsub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Naira

First question is why the Olympics are held in a country that treats their citizens so badly in the first place. A few weeks ago, the Chinese government had an entire neighborhood of Beijing destroyed to make way for development. They didn't compensate the people who were living there.

But yes...I also agree that keeping women from competing isn't the mark of a nation who's understanding of the spirit of the games.


Hi Naira

I believe you are not reading the Chinese people correctly...In a Herald Tribune article a survey was taken by Pew Global Attitudes Project and found that eighty-six percent of the Chinese surveyed said they were content with the country's direction.

Only 23 percent of Americans surveyed said that.

Butch

(in reply to Naira)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Why Can't Many Muslim Women Compete in The Olympics? - 8/10/2008 6:51:20 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub


You may be wrong... If whites were to band blacks it would be racism...but what if blacks did not want to compete because of their religion? Then it would not be racism at all.

I do believe the majority of Muslim women do not think it appropriate for women to compete under those circumstances.

Not every country or religion in the world has to agree with our mores…I think it is a choice even if we don’t agree with it.

Butch


Saudi Arabia competes in the Olympic Games via the invitation of the IOC. The IOC has authority over who competes, not the laws of a Nation State.

The IOC has and does stop countries with discriminatory policies toward minority athletes from competing.

The Saudis and other Islamic countries are given a pass.

Why?




Because of the reasons I have already stated... they don't believe the laws of the majority in Islamic countries to be discriminatory

Butch

(in reply to FatDomDaddy)
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RE: Why Can't Many Muslim Women Compete in The Olympics? - 8/10/2008 6:56:44 PM   
FatDomDaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Naira

First question is why the Olympics are held in a country that treats their citizens so badly in the first place.


I could not agree more!

Still... the IOC made their decision and they are an independent organization.
It is their hypocrisy that does not allow discrimination for racial reasons but allows it for matters of sex that get me as well. I had to laugh at the IOC surprise and condemnation over Chi-Coms censoring the Internet for journalists. " But but but... THEY said they wouldn't,,,they said!"  

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RE: Why Can't Many Muslim Women Compete in The Olympics? - 8/10/2008 6:59:34 PM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

Chi-Coms



???

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RE: Why Can't Many Muslim Women Compete in The Olympics? - 8/10/2008 7:25:06 PM   
FatDomDaddy


Posts: 3183
Joined: 1/31/2004
Status: offline 		Chinese Comunists.

Ya know...

The ones that ban the free worship of religion, the ones that force reproductive policies against women who want children, the ones who, outlaw a free press.

Chi-Coms, surely you have heard of them?

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RE: Why Can't Many Muslim Women Compete in The Olympics? - 8/10/2008 7:47:21 PM   
Racquelle


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Status: offline 		In reality, it is not entirely correct to say that women are "banned" from competing by the countries in question.  They don't need to be banned.  As in many places, athleticism in women is discouraged and certainly unfunded.  Cultures may also consider the lives and physical bodies of women to be private - so competing in such a manner would be considered terribly immodest, and women themselves may simply not feel comfortable to compete openly in a bathing suit, shorts, tank top, etc.  Even since the advent of Title IX, in the United States, the funding for men's sports continues to exceed that for women's.  Facilities and equipment for men's teams tends to be newer, and better quality.  And do we not have a culture that makes women (and some men) self-conscious to the point of being unwilling to show thier bodies?  Perhaps we all need ti improve a bit?

Once again, here we are, generalizing about "Muslim countries" as if they all do and think and say the same thing, and the culture is entirely homogenous from Turkey to North Africa.  I don't think my liberal, white, Californian culture is particularly similar to the culture of a woman my age in a small village in Bolivia - but we could likely both be said to be from "Christian countries".  Perhaps it would be wise for the IOC and us to look at specific policies and laws, and not just blindly generalize.

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RE: Why Can't Many Muslim Women Compete in The Olympics? - 8/10/2008 8:01:17 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		 
Have you written to your Chi-Com-Symps in the white house ?

He has more influence than the IOC.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Again,your Apartheid reference is insulting and lame.


Question,were you outraged or upset when we helped install Sharia law in Iraq,setting millions and millions of people back a hundred years and guaranteeing all those things you mentioned?


Just wondering if you`re consistent.








Note for kittin: Chi-Com-Symp is short for Chinese Communist sympathizer.

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 8/10/2008 8:09:51 PM >

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

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RE: Why Can't Many Muslim Women Compete in The Olympics? - 8/10/2008 8:06:41 PM   
FatDomDaddy


Posts: 3183
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Status: offline 		No we are not Requella, we are talking specifically about Saudi Arabia. And in fact, there are many many women yearning to compete from Saudi Arabia. Read the links. The IOC has a specific thing to look at and many female Saudi expatriats, along with Muslim women outside of countries like Saudi Arabis and Syria are pushing for female inclusion. As I said, Jordon, Turkey, Iran all allow women, Nigeria, Mali, Indonesia, Malyasia, as well.... This discrimination against women athletes is happen in only a few nations and it should be stopped.

As to your statement about Title IX, womans facilities and funding are by law, equal to those of men. And in schools where football is played, the scholarship sports exceede those of men. It is true that Men's basketball and Football make far more money than any women sports but that is market driven. Usually, Football and Men's Basketball makes more than all of the sports (men's and women's) combined. Oh... and the revenues??? Split equally throughout the athletic departments. 

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RE: Why Can't Many Muslim Women Compete in The Olympics? - 8/10/2008 9:17:31 PM   
NeedingMore220


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Racquelle
Once again, here we are, generalizing about "Muslim countries" as if they all do and think and say the same thing, and the culture is entirely homogenous from Turkey to North Africa.  I don't think my liberal, white, Californian culture is particularly similar to the culture of a woman my age in a small village in Bolivia - but we could likely both be said to be from "Christian countries".  Perhaps it would be wise for the IOC and us to look at specific policies and laws, and not just blindly generalize.



That is an interesting point to make.  While watching the athletes marching in, it was easy to spot Muslim countries with easier rules for their women athletes and those who still insisted on traditional dress and headpieces - there was definitely a range among Muslim countries as to how they expected their female athletes to represent the country.  It ws nice to see it wasn't just burqas (sp?) and veils all around.  Some wore veils but regular clothes; others wore no veils and regular clothes, and still others wore the full burqa. 

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