RE: Racist or not? (Full Version)

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Smith117 -> RE: Racist or not? (8/11/2008 3:32:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: hazelmae
I want to know if I am being too overly sensitive, because if I am I need to work harder on overlooking stuff like that.


I'd say yes, you're overly sensitive. If his comment was "racial" at all then so was the black female comedian (I can't recall her name) remarking that her boyfriend under a black light was nothing but "eyes, teeth, and dandruff."

Poking fun at one's color doesn't necessarily mean racism. It just means he went for the obvious joke. Of course someone *should* tell him that key lime pie isn't green, so the joke falls flat.



Smith117 -> RE: Racist or not? (8/11/2008 3:39:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59


It was the use of the word "jigga-boo",that got the Imus show canceled.His producer is an asshole and should be bitch-slapped for saying it.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ui1jPNDWArM


Ummm, that flap was about "nappy-headed hos" which is stated in the first few seconds of the link you posted. Where do you get "jigga-boo?"



Alumbrado -> RE: Racist or not? (8/11/2008 3:40:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikolette

quote:

And why should we change the legal, sociological, medical, or even popular usages of the word just because one specialty has an arcane definition for it?


Because its not accurately defining anything and leads people into the assumption that race functions in a manner it does not. Pigment is an inferior way to categorize "races". Thus moronic stuff like "racial pride".

(my own humble opinion yadda yadda)



I'm not following how medical research on diseases associated with racial groups like 'African-American', or legislation dealing with 'Native Americans', or sociological studies that group subjects into 'black/white.' etc.  leads to racial pride? 

You seem to be advocating taking the argot from one small subset of one small group of scientists, and insisting that others are not precise because they have developed their own parameters for their own jargon.... in which case my question about why not do the same with all words such as 'tangent', still stands



Alumbrado -> RE: Racist or not? (8/11/2008 3:44:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Smith117

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59


It was the use of the word "jigga-boo",that got the Imus show canceled.His producer is an asshole and should be bitch-slapped for saying it.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ui1jPNDWArM


Ummm, that flap was about "nappy-headed hos" which is stated in the first few seconds of the link you posted. Where do you get "jigga-boo?"



Apparently from that well known 'neo-con' Spike Lee...



Aynne -> RE: Racist or not? (8/11/2008 3:45:56 PM)

Calling them the smartest may not be but calling them mongoloids? Yes. That term does not carry favor with asians Popeye.

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

"Bottom line, racism is the belief that one group or another is superior or inferior because of being a member of that group. "

I disagree, that is called bigotry.

T


Hmmm, if I said that Asians (Mongoloids) are the smartest race would that be "racist?"
(I'd venture to guess that it's probably true.)



popeye1250 -> RE: Racist or not? (8/11/2008 3:56:47 PM)

Aynne, "Mongoloid" is their race.



Nikolette -> RE: Racist or not? (8/11/2008 3:56:50 PM)

quote:

I'm not following how medical research on diseases associated with racial groups like 'African-American', or legislation dealing with 'Native Americans', or sociological studies that group subjects into 'black/white.' etc. leads to racial pride?

You seem to be advocating taking the argot from one small subset of one small group of scientists, and insisting that others are not precise because they have developed their own parameters for their own jargon.... in which case my question about why not do the same with all words such as 'tangent', still stands


First of all, I'm not advocating anything necessarily. I'm just saying it drives ME batty and ~I~ find it to be inaccurate and overly simplistic. Because it IS from a biological point of view. And IF we let go of it we could have better, more accurate research and better, more accurate solutions.

As someone with a significant deal of blackfoot and fox tribes blood in me, I do not appreciate the term Native American at all. Its disgusting. And a slap in the face to all the tribes to loop them together and slap an all in one solution. So yeah: I'd really LOVE us to stop dealing with the "Native Americans" as ONE unit. I'm glad you brought that fiasco of the genocide of my forefathers to this discussion, because its painfully relevant.

And the pride thing occurs when you divide into groups. If I were you, I'd look into a long study/experiment a teacher did when she devided her class into groups and how their behavior changed almost instantly.

Edited to add: (I have errands to run. You are more than welcome to message me on the other side for more information on these topics.)



candystripper -> RE: Racist or not? (8/11/2008 3:59:34 PM)

Okay, I admit it...this topic amuses and engages me.  I'd like to gather together all the white pride nutjobs and blow them to Mars....or maybe carve out some Gawd forsaken part of some state (Newark, New Jersey?) and force them onto it like a reservation, quaratining them from the rest of us.  I'd like to live in a city, county, state, and nation where I never had to encounter any of this crap ever again.  It's one of my favorite fantasises.
 
When the census taker shows up next time I think I'll claim to be African-American, and refuse to change my answer.  My family is so full of asswipes I am certain without any doubt that I am, in some small part, and that I have DNA in common with some people who identify themselves as African-American.  Yes, the family bible says differently but the men (and some of the women) in my family have been catting around for generations and I am sure there have been children who have been left off the list.  Frankly I think this is the case with everyone....no one is 'pure' anything...and that Nikolette's post about the absurdity of identifying by 'race' is well-made.
 
candystripper



Alumbrado -> RE: Racist or not? (8/11/2008 4:07:14 PM)

I was referring to legislation that gives advantages to those who can prove they are members of a tribe, not just claiming Amerind heritage with nothing to back it up in the way of documentation. 
Again, if that sort of thing pisses you off, just like medical researh that helps African Americans, you will just have to stay pissed off.

And you can rest assured that you do not have any 'more' information on these topics on this side or any other...



Mercnbeth -> RE: Racist or not? (8/11/2008 4:10:44 PM)

quote:

white pride nutjobs and blow them to Mars....or maybe carve out some Gawd forsaken part of some state (Newark, New Jersey?)
Never knew it required a racist position to be against racism.

Tell me would you segregate a different part of the state for Black Pride, Irish Pride, Italian Pride? Would busing be involved?



persephonee -> RE: Racist or not? (8/11/2008 4:26:07 PM)

While mentioning someone's pigment may or may not be bigotted, to me it shows signs of it. My parents raised me to consider the person, not the color and i have been proud to tell people that they intentionally bussed me out of my neighborhood to schools that were more racially diverse as i was growing up. i am torn however in that i remember their reaction when my prom date was "discovered" to be black and later in life when my mother commented on my then girlfriend's wide set eyes being a sign of intelligence. (which is a comment more commonly heard when a person is speaking of a horse or a dog.) i find that i have difficulty describing strangers to someone i know as i somehow never remember to mention race in my description. i dont do this out of some false sense of politically correct behavior, i do this, i believe, because i really dont notice race at first. i may be blowing smoke up my own ass, but this is how i perceive myself. i have been heard to say...oh yeah...she is black...thats right...
To me, racial discrimination is a real and horrible reality and while its not typically reported as being as violent as it once was, i find the stories my friends tell me about police engagements and rental disputes to be just as damaging as if we were back in the ...not 50s...but certainly the 70s.
Just my two distinctly copper cents.

ETA..fast reply to forum in general.



AquaticSub -> RE: Racist or not? (8/11/2008 4:49:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

white pride nutjobs and blow them to Mars....or maybe carve out some Gawd forsaken part of some state (Newark, New Jersey?)
Never knew it required a racist position to be against racism.

Tell me would you segregate a different part of the state for Black Pride, Irish Pride, Italian Pride? Would busing be involved?


Heaven forbid I be proud of the fact that I'm Irish. If any skin color is something to be proud of, they all are. No exceptions.



Hippiekinkster -> RE: Racist or not? (8/11/2008 4:55:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Aynne, "Mongoloid" is their race.
Prove to me the existence of a "race" of humans which is genetically distinct from other humans.



Aynne -> RE: Racist or not? (8/11/2008 5:58:04 PM)

Popeye I know that used to be a commonly used term, but it is not in favor with most asians anymore, and it generally was applied to East Asian ethnic groups. It has negative connotations with most asians I know, and not that it matters, but my ex-husband is asian as is my Master. I am certain you did not mean it that way at all, I was just stating what I know from my experience.  See the below from Wiki:


The term "Mongoloid" is a variation of the word "Mongol", meaning "Mongol-like". It has been coined as a racial category to describe the distinctive appearance of East Asian peoples. Today it is most used in discussions of human prehistory, historical definitions of race and in the forensic analysis of human remains. The concept's existence is based on a now disputed typological method of racial classification.[1][2] In forensics, Mongoloid is considered a skull type that is used to determine the probable soft-tissue reconstruction of discovered human remains. The -oid racial terms are now often controversial in both technical and non-technical contexts and may sometimes give offense no matter how they are used.[3] This is especially true of "Mongoloid" because it has also been used as a synonym for persons with Down Syndrome, and in American English as a generic insult meaning "idiot".[4] Contrary to popular beliefs, Mongoloid refers to diverse ethnical groups, instead of a homogeneous group.



quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Aynne, "Mongoloid" is their race.



OrionTheWolf -> RE: Racist or not? (8/11/2008 6:58:37 PM)

There is a difference between racial remarks and racist remarks. Many PC, overly sensitive people may believe and say otherwise, but there are a few essays and such out there you can read about. It does depend upon intent and their beliefs of those not of their ethnicity. I know mine will not be the popular opinion but I am an equal opportunity asshole.

Some are so overly sensitive to the hardcore racist and bigots, that those that make racial comments are lumped in with them as well.



candystripper -> RE: Racist or not? (8/11/2008 8:21:31 PM)

Maybe I need to clarify what I meant.  I find nothing whatsoever offensive about the St. Patrick's Day Parade, the Festival in Little Italy, or in anyone's pride in their ancestry, regardless of their heritage.  By using the term 'white pride nutjobs' I meant to refer to members of the KKK, the Aryan Nation, and others of the same ilk.....those who are active hate mongers and have a history of violence towards those they perceive as 'others'.
 
If I offended anyone by my post earlier, I am sorry.  I was feeling a little tongue-in-cheek and I had thought that was apparent but once again, the written word failed to convey the humour.  I don't even have anything special against New Jersey, though it is kinda fun to ridicule.
 
candystripper



Archer -> RE: Racist or not? (8/11/2008 10:22:15 PM)

Termin8tor the term that would best describe the mindset you gave as example would be racially biased.
Showing a preference for one race preference rather than believing they are superiour.
One could be both racist and racially biased or one could only be racially biased.

Disagreeing with the dictionary is kind of silly since it is the established meaning of the word at any given time.
(allowing for living language changing connotations)
Dictionaries though have a review system that allows for the shift in definitions in common use, the editions system.

Others:

The shift from racial to national pride is a significant leap. Pride in the accomplishment of one's nation certainly though is also tinged with the idea of superiourity of one nation over another. Unless you have an objective criteria that the world has agreed to use ranking nations is kinda silly too.




Termyn8or -> RE: Racist or not? (8/11/2008 11:23:05 PM)

Well I will accept that. In my personal preferences when it comes to a concubine or Wife, those preferences will prevail. I will not hide from the truth.

However, in other matters everybody gets their chance. To do business with me, to become my associate or friend, speak up. Let me hear what you have to say. I have the right to decide, and I don't do it based on race, personal matters are a different story. I dream of genie with a dark brown hair and skin as white as it gets. See I don't want a blonde either. If one came along and I got hooked, well oh well.

That is my personal preference in a mate and if that is wrong, beam me up Scotty. However in matters of business I know only one color - green. And when it comes to social activities, I don't really care. People are people. Bore me with bullshit and you are just as out as anyone else. Say something smart, well maybe we can have a conversation, perhaps even become friends.

Really, I am not so sure your description fits either. That's what I said, there is no word for it. I prefer what I prefer in my bed. The rest of it, everybody is the same until they show that they are different, and I don't mean that in a good way. Say something to tell me that you have a brain, otherwise you are a scumbag like all the rest, of all races. Show me that you are not a brainless idiot, that you do posess the capacity for concious thought. Where does race come into that ? There is a shitload of people with white skin that I do not want in, or anywhere near my house.

So now has it become politically incorrect to discriminate against the stupid, the thieves, the neer do ells ? Thing is, if some of them are Black, so what ? White skin would not redeem then in any way.

My preferences in that matter pertain to who I might share my bed and my life with, nothing else. Noone is beneath me, I just assert that I am allowed to make those choices.

So "racially biased" might not be the right term either.

T



Vendaval -> RE: Racist or not? (8/12/2008 12:40:05 AM)

Hello hazelmae,
 
I think the more important question is how much are you bothered by his attitudes and comments and will having a conversation with him make the situation better or worse?  Is this friendship worth your time and energy or would you be happier spending time with people whose point of view matches your own?  Only you can decide.
 
[sm=welcome.gif] to the Forums.



Termyn8or -> RE: Racist or not? (8/12/2008 11:45:24 AM)

Nikolette, if you don't appreciate the term Native American, what would you prefer ?

Really, I thought it more respectful than Indian, because this is not India. I had heard that the term Indian was used because the early explorers who discovered this country thought they were in the West Indies, something like that. IIRC that's what they told us in school, but that is also not infallible.

But then is was White explorers who named this continent America, after Americo Vespucci. What was the name before that ? Would that be a more proper term ? I simply don't know and any enlightenment would be appreciated. I don't want to offend anyone, but with my opinions I wind up doing it inadvertently anyway.

And Archer, this is not the first time I have disagreed with the dictionary, and I am not the first to do it nor will I be the last. One of my peeves about the dictionary is that it does not effectively explain the difference between the terms engine and motor. There is a specific difference. I can explain the difference, but this is not the place for it right now.

Anyway, to revisit the OP, I think that poking fun at how someone looks is generally in poor taste. It falls into the category with picking on someone who is fat, deformed or has a speech impediment. It is very hard to do without offending. In that case I tend to think 'if that's the best you can do STFU'. In this case I think the jokester was poking fun at the clothes, not the person's skin color specifically. Of course the skin color might be what made the joke work for him, but the clothes are what really did it.

The problem is to figure out intent. That's a big one, and that's the problem with the hate crime laws. How do you know what is going on in another's mind ?

A shitty joke that is unkind to someone is not desirable, but it shouldn't get one drawn and quartered. The subject of race keeps popping up because we have a long way to go in learning. We need to embrace and accept our differences. And grow a skin. Tell me a good Polak joke and I will laugh with you. But make it a good one. The old "flush the punch bowl" is not going to cut it. What are you saying, that we drink out of the toilet like a dog ? And believe it or not, I would not take offense. But wait until I find out YOUR race, and you better be able to take it as well as dish it out.

Race is a very complex and sensitive issue, but that is because we make it that way. If we stop, it will become a non-issue in short order. Alot of people just can't seem to do that.

T



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