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Can there auctually be Real Slavery in this lifestyle?


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Can there auctually be Real Slavery in this lifestyle? - 8/11/2008 2:03:36 PM   
subiet


Posts: 7
Joined: 10/21/2007
Status: offline 		i have oftened wondered about this. How can someone be a true slave when they always have the option to walk away. Looking for example, at the slaves that were brought here from Africa and comparing them to this type of lifestyle, is true slavery even a reality?
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RE: Can there auctually be Real Slavery in this lifestyle? - 8/11/2008 2:07:13 PM   
simpleplan2


Posts: 461
Joined: 7/5/2008
Status: offline 		There has to be a gazillion threads on this very topic.  Some people say yes...some people say no.  Take your pick.

(in reply to subiet)
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RE: Can there auctually be Real Slavery in this lifestyle? - 8/11/2008 2:08:58 PM   
CallaFirestormBW


Posts: 3651
Joined: 6/29/2008
Status: offline 		In the manner that you mean it, the answer has to be no, not legally. The practices that people participate in as an alternative lifestyle choice, and that are called 'slavery' have no real capacity for enforcement on legal grounds, and are completely bound by the activities and commitments of the individuals.

CFB

< Message edited by CallaFirestormBW -- 8/11/2008 2:09:47 PM >

_____________________________

***
Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

"Your mind is more interested in the challenge of becoming than the challenge of doing." Jon Benson, Bodybuilder/Trainer

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RE: Can there auctually be Real Slavery in this lifestyle? - 8/11/2008 2:15:07 PM   
ShreveportMaster


Posts: 899
Joined: 10/6/2004
From: Dallas, Tx
Status: offline 		  Tal and greetings,
Depends on what you mean by "real". If you mean legally recognized ownership of another human being, and you live anywhere in North America, then the answer is no. That manner of slavery is illegal, and as it was practiced, that is forced slavery, based soley upon the ethnicity of the person in question, was something that needed to be outlawed. Personally, I'd like to see some type of legal provision made for voluntary slavery, where ownership is legally recognized, but requirements are laid down for the healthy upkeep of the slave (Hey, we require it for pets, and domestic livestock, seems like a good idea!)
Now, legalities aside, can a woman be held so firmly in her slavery that legalities or not, she is incapable of leaving? yes that is possible. Rare, but possible.
                                           I wish you well,
                                                                   Shreve

< Message edited by ShreveportMaster -- 8/11/2008 2:30:25 PM >

_____________________________

"And to sooth the Bosk, there was found a Singing Cowboy. To soothe the Cowboy, a kajira is needed."

Riders of Gor
Book 37, Pg 298 ;-)

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RE: Can there auctually be Real Slavery in this lifestyle? - 8/11/2008 2:15:30 PM   
hopelessfool


Posts: 988
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		I dont think it honestly matters what one calls themself, be it slave or sub or cookie.   I think Im going to go with treasures thoughs on the the sub, slave, can there be cant their be. Theres will be a Daddy(him)/kitten(me) relationship with no lables beyond that.

I dont believe slavery and consentual work together in the same sentence. Thats just my opinion.


_____________________________

" I have nothing left to give, I have found the perfect end, You remain to make it hurt, disappear in to the dirt, carry me to heavens arms.....Dear Agony Just let go of me, suffer slowly, is this the way its gotta be, Dear Agony...."

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RE: Can there auctually be Real Slavery in this lifestyle? - 8/11/2008 2:22:04 PM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline 		How about, Native Americans?  Spanish?  Portuguse?  English?  Chinese?  Slavery is a bit more diverse than the Africa slant, which I am guessing is used simply for the shock factor.
 
My suggestion, pull out a few books, particularly dictionaries and find the definition of slavery.  Then come back think about whether you might ask the same question.
 
the.dark.

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RC&dc


love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

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RE: Can there auctually be Real Slavery in this lifestyle? - 8/11/2008 2:23:51 PM   
UR2Badored


Posts: 506
Joined: 2/3/2007
Status: offline 		Subiet,
You might find these threads of interests:



Romanticizing Slavery
So you think you are really a slave
slavery vs roleplay

Here are just three for starters

< Message edited by UR2Badored -- 8/11/2008 2:43:20 PM >

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RE: Can there auctually be Real Slavery in this lifestyle? - 8/11/2008 2:28:46 PM   
ShreveportMaster


Posts: 899
Joined: 10/6/2004
From: Dallas, Tx
Status: offline 		 Greetings hopeless,
An interesting perspective, Let Me ask you this... you have a person who, of their own free will (that is consensual) has given themselves wholly over, so far as the law allows to Another. That Other has legal power of attorney, legally owns all the possesions the one formerly held title to, Has durable healthcare POA, in other words can legally make life and death decisions about this person. This; lets call them "Master"  has access to all documents, credit records, financial info, bank accounts, etc, and is legally authorized to use them, or change them in any way He (let's suppose the "Master" is male) the law allows.This One is called Master by the other, and the other obeys in all things, as far as the law permits. This girl (lets say for the sake of argument that our supposed "slave" is female) has devoted her life to serving and pleasing her Master.
Granted, while the Master holds an extreme amount of power here, it does stop short of legal ownership of the slave. However, emotionally, and mentaly she is as much His property as she would be if the law changed and made physical ownership legal.
If you would not term such a person a consensual slave, I'd be interested in knowing how you would define such a relationship.  Thanks for your input, and opinion.
                                                                                    I wish you well,
                                                                                                             Shreve

_____________________________

"And to sooth the Bosk, there was found a Singing Cowboy. To soothe the Cowboy, a kajira is needed."

Riders of Gor
Book 37, Pg 298 ;-)

(in reply to hopelessfool)
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RE: Can there auctually be Real Slavery in this lifestyle? - 8/11/2008 2:35:47 PM   
CallaFirestormBW


Posts: 3651
Joined: 6/29/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ShreveportMaster

If you would not term such a person a consensual slave, I'd be interested in knowing how you would define such a relationship.  Thanks for your input, and opinion.
                                                                                 I wish you well,
                                                                                                          Shreve


I would call those who reached that state with us "bound servants" or "indentured servants", depending on whether or not our household eventually decides that it will need to write up a contract of indenture for servants who go this far in their service. Up until this past weekend, we would have called them "collared servants", but the whole collar thing is being scaffolded for renovations.

CFB



< Message edited by CallaFirestormBW -- 8/11/2008 2:37:07 PM >

_____________________________

***
Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

"Your mind is more interested in the challenge of becoming than the challenge of doing." Jon Benson, Bodybuilder/Trainer

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RE: Can there auctually be Real Slavery in this lifestyle? - 8/11/2008 2:40:02 PM   
ShreveportMaster


Posts: 899
Joined: 10/6/2004
From: Dallas, Tx
Status: offline 		 Smiles,
Greetings Calla,
Thanks for Your input. Same concept, different words, always interesting. Also of interest, the Bible refferes to such as Bond Servants...very close to bound servants eh ;-)

_____________________________

"And to sooth the Bosk, there was found a Singing Cowboy. To soothe the Cowboy, a kajira is needed."

Riders of Gor
Book 37, Pg 298 ;-)

(in reply to CallaFirestormBW)
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RE: Can there auctually be Real Slavery in this lifestyle? - 8/11/2008 2:46:38 PM   
CallaFirestormBW


Posts: 3651
Joined: 6/29/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ShreveportMaster

Smiles,
Greetings Calla,
Thanks for Your input. Same concept, different words, always interesting. Also of interest, the Bible refferes to such as Bond Servants...very close to bound servants eh ;-)


I had forgotten about that phrase... I think I like it better than "bound servant"... I'm going to share it with the Crew later on. Thank you!

The reason I avoid the whole "slave" word is purely out of my fetish for accuracy. Slavery has -always- been non-consensual. Servitude, though, has at least some history of being voluntary (though even "voluntary" forms of servitude, like indenture, have been used in a manner that truly mirrored slavery and where the only difference truly -was- the word used). Our idea of a "bond servant" (see... I really -do- like that one!), if you'll forgive me the reference, would be someone like "Alfred" -- a lifelong servant to a household, perhaps through generations, whose service was such a part of that person that it truly defined hir existence... but where xhe technically -did- have the choice to walk away.

CFB


< Message edited by CallaFirestormBW -- 8/11/2008 2:47:24 PM >

_____________________________

***
Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

"Your mind is more interested in the challenge of becoming than the challenge of doing." Jon Benson, Bodybuilder/Trainer

(in reply to ShreveportMaster)
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RE: Can there auctually be Real Slavery in this lifestyle? - 8/11/2008 2:51:24 PM   
MasterHermes


Posts: 136
Joined: 5/23/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: subiet

i have oftened wondered about this. How can someone be a true slave when they always have the option to walk away...


She doesnt have option to walk away until she thinks so. She needs to be thinking and giving that option to herself. People think they can walk away, and  always compare their current situation with how else it could be and if they still want to stay. What if she doesnt? Are we going to say, you have got legal rights and you have to start thinking otherwise?

Hermes

< Message edited by MasterHermes -- 8/11/2008 2:54:02 PM >

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RE: Can there auctually be Real Slavery in this lifestyle? - 8/11/2008 2:52:22 PM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline 		So assuming you mean the classical definition of slavery, eg: the legal ownership of another... not in north american anyway.  Did you really want that?  Really, when you get down to it, as used by the BDSM community, "slave" in some way refers to a sub with, in some way or another, more relaxed boundaries than most.  The word "slave" clearly goes in that direction plus has the added shock factor which the kinky crowd always loves... gotta be edgy don't you know.  It is my thought that very few of the "slaves" on this site would  find the actuality of true powerlessness very appealing.  The simple proof of that is straightforward.  If what someone wanted was "real" slavery, they could get that tomorrow...  one quick plane flight to Thailand or any number of similar places would enable them to sell themselves into enforced slavery.  Simple... certain.... way less hassle than dating on collarme.

However, when you say "real slavery", it's important to remember that words themselves get defined and redefined through time.  So what "slavery" meant in Thomas Jefferson's day is not necessarily what it means now.  So tell you what... how about you go find a good working definition of the term "slave" as it is used by "the bdsm community" and then I'll tell you whether that really exists or not *laughs*

< Message edited by leadership527 -- 8/11/2008 2:56:06 PM >

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

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RE: Can there auctually be Real Slavery in this lifestyle? - 8/11/2008 3:16:46 PM   
IvyMorgan


Posts: 729
Joined: 7/5/2007
From: Midlands, UK
Status: offline 		There's still modern day "white slavery" (not just of white girls, just called white).  And that can (frequently) have an element of D/s or kink in the lives of the slaves (and here I don't mean where the owners decide it's fun to beat compliance into their property, ebcuase there are far more effective and less costly in terms of profit ways of doing that.)  They'd be "true" slaves in the non-consensual, kidnapped, can't walk away sense of the word.


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RE: Can there auctually be Real Slavery in this lifestyle? - 8/11/2008 3:17:27 PM   
Prinsexx


Posts: 4584
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: subiet

i have oftened wondered about this. How can someone be a true slave when they always have the option to walk away. Looking for example, at the slaves that were brought here from Africa and comparing them to this type of lifestyle, is true slavery even a reality?

true
slave
lifestyle
reality
these are all questionable constructs.....


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Metawhore.... the sound of a metaphore when gagged
Free woman
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To my stalker:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LN2lP_7J7GI&feature=fvwrel

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RE: Can there auctually be Real Slavery in this lifestyle? - 8/11/2008 3:24:13 PM   
ShreveportMaster


Posts: 899
Joined: 10/6/2004
From: Dallas, Tx
Status: offline 		 Smiles, a female version of Alfred...I Reallly like that one. Especially as I am a huge Batman fan. Now, if she looks like Barbara Gordon (I've got a thing for redheads) I'm definitely in love.

_____________________________

"And to sooth the Bosk, there was found a Singing Cowboy. To soothe the Cowboy, a kajira is needed."

Riders of Gor
Book 37, Pg 298 ;-)

(in reply to CallaFirestormBW)
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RE: Can there auctually be Real Slavery in this lifestyle? - 8/11/2008 3:26:47 PM   
hopelessfool


Posts: 988
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ShreveportMaster

Greetings hopeless,
An interesting perspective, Let Me ask you this... you have a person who, of their own free will (that is consensual) has given themselves wholly over, so far as the law allows to Another. That Other has legal power of attorney, legally owns all the possesions the one formerly held title to, Has durable healthcare POA, in other words can legally make life and death decisions about this person. This; lets call them "Master"  has access to all documents, credit records, financial info, bank accounts, etc, and is legally authorized to use them, or change them in any way He (let's suppose the "Master" is male) the law allows.This One is called Master by the other, and the other obeys in all things, as far as the law permits. This girl (lets say for the sake of argument that our supposed "slave" is female) has devoted her life to serving and pleasing her Master.
Granted, while the Master holds an extreme amount of power here, it does stop short of legal ownership of the slave. However, emotionally, and mentaly she is as much His property as she would be if the law changed and made physical ownership legal.
If you would not term such a person a consensual slave, I'd be interested in knowing how you would define such a relationship.  Thanks for your input, and opinion.
                                                                                   I wish you well,
                                                                                                            Shreve


in your example...

My parents until i turned 18, had every right to make every medical decision, every thing I did they had the right and rhyme to order me to do as they pleased, I was happily complient to my parents wishes, Did it make me their slave? No It made me their child.

Just because Someone has EVERY ammount of power over someone a slave is someone who is FORCED, ie. NON consent. meaning the girl in your senario with my definition, wouldnt wish you to have this power over her.

But again, to me it doesnt matter if people wish to be called slaves, submit to the level of being a slave gives over every right and peice of property. If thats their kink thats their kink. To me it doesnt make them a slave they can always leave.
Slavery and consent just to me is an oxymoron. I personally dont care about the label, as long as im kitten and hes Daddy


_____________________________

" I have nothing left to give, I have found the perfect end, You remain to make it hurt, disappear in to the dirt, carry me to heavens arms.....Dear Agony Just let go of me, suffer slowly, is this the way its gotta be, Dear Agony...."

(in reply to ShreveportMaster)
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RE: Can there auctually be Real Slavery in this lifestyle? - 8/11/2008 3:27:04 PM   
littlesarbonn


Posts: 1710
Joined: 12/3/2005
From: Stockton, California
Status: offline 		What it boils down to is OTHER people interject their opinions on your relationships, and for some reason we give them the power to do so. It's why I stopped arguing with people on this subject. There are so many people who don't even care about the lifestyle, but they care about being semantically right, no matter how many people they alienate along the way.

_____________________________

<---- FYI, this picture looks JUST like me


http://www.littlesarbonn.com/Stickman/Stickman.htm
The Adventures of Stickman and the Unemployed Lego Spaceman

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RE: Can there auctually be Real Slavery in this lifestyle? - 8/11/2008 3:28:08 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

Looking for example, at the slaves that were brought here from Africa and comparing them to this type of lifestyle, is true slavery even a reality?


why would you even compare the two in an effort to define "real" and "true"?  a consensual Master/slave relationship and the buying/selling of an individual for forced labor are two different things.
 
the word "pussy" has more than one meaning.  the fact that this slave was born with one as a female doesn't mean the feline animal that lives in this house isn't a "real" pussy, as well.
 
one can be "gay" without being a "true" homosexual.  all they need do is be "real"-ly happy, and they can refer to themselves accurately as "real"-ly gay.

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RE: Can there auctually be Real Slavery in this lifestyle? - 8/11/2008 4:41:15 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: subiet

i have oftened wondered about this. How can someone be a true slave when they always have the option to walk away. Looking for example, at the slaves that were brought here from Africa and comparing them to this type of lifestyle, is true slavery even a reality?


If you define true slavery as being unable to leave legally than that is impossible in North America. However, there are a few legal steps like becoming an indentured servant that make it harder or there is the option of moving to a country where slavery is still legal. Or one can consider that, as with many words, the term can have many different meanings. To some it describes a healthy, wonderful relationship. To others it describes horror and families being split apart. I suppose the real issue is what does the word mean to you and yours?

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

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