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RE: Can there auctually be Real Slavery in this lifestyle? - 8/11/2008 5:04:57 PM   
ResidentSadist


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quote:

ORIGINAL: subiet
i have oftened wondered about this. How can someone be a true slave when they always have the option to walk away. Looking for example, at the slaves that were brought here from Africa and comparing them to this type of lifestyle, is true slavery even a reality?

Being a fellow tangible realist I have addressed this question and the answer is No.  As far as lifestyle comparisons to ownership of an African slave , your point is very realistic.  Lifestyle Master/slave relationships are not about being kidnapped against your will.  However there are two main applicable meanings to the definition of the word slave and lifestyle relationships that involve consensual slavery can truly use the term "slave" in the second scense of the definition .

1. a person who is the property of and wholly subject to another; a bond servant. 
2. a person entirely under the domination of some influence or person: a slave to a drug. 

#1 = “property of”
It is illegal for me to own it a human being in this country.  Despite the fact I may have ultimate authority over my "slave" and hold legal guardianship papers and a power of attorney, I cannot get a sales receipt for human being in this country.  I can prove I own my dog, I have a receipt.  I can prove I have authority over my slave, she obeys me.  However, the harsh reality of it is I do not own her and if I try to restrain her against her will the State and Federal government will come to free her from me.  As omnipotent is I would like to think I am, I would just be out numbered in a battle like that and lose my position eventually. 

#2 = “under the domination of”
My slave is “under my influence” and control.  Therefore by this definition of terms, she is under my domination and therefore my slave.  I may not have a receipt and despite recent court proceedings that rule poorly written BDSM slave contracts as invalid, it does not negate the fact that I control her.  So in this sense it is technically accurate to call her my slave.  With a well written service contract in the style of a major corporation’s employment contracts, I can even enforce all legal aspects of her service and prove this in a court of law. 

So with a well written service contract , guardianship papers and a power of attorney I can prove in court of law that my slave is "under my domination " even though I can't get them to issue me a god damn receipt for her.

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RE: Can there auctually be Real Slavery in this lifestyle? - 8/11/2008 5:17:57 PM   
KnightofMists


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quote:

ORIGINAL: subiet

i have oftened wondered about this. How can someone be a true slave when they always have the option to walk away. Looking for example, at the slaves that were brought here from Africa and comparing them to this type of lifestyle, is true slavery even a reality?


"Real slavery"... exactly what is that?

How about... Ethical Slavery and Unethical Slavery?

Seems to me the slavery you are making reference to is "unethical slavery".... I find those in the lifestyle seek to create an "Ethical slavery" dynamic.


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RE: Can there auctually be Real Slavery in this lifestyle? - 8/11/2008 5:23:01 PM   
AnnaOfAramis


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Status: offline 		Well, the question brings up an interesting point. If you look into slavery on wikipedia and then follow the additional subcategories through the various locations to get more articles on same, you will find that while slavery has existed for thousands of years, its forms have been quite varied. There was even consensual slavery- real slavery that was entered into by the consent of the slave! This occurred in Egypt, also with the Vikings, and in the Middle East to name a few. The reasons then varied, but were mostly financial. In addition, there were forms of slavery in which the person could leave. The q'uran allowed this in the slavery of the middle east. Slaves were allowed to ask to be allowed to purchase their freedom, and if they asked, they had to be allowed to earn and keep money. So... to say that because our slavery nowadays is consensual and we can leave, does not by itself make it less slavery.

In addition, sometimes there are bonds that are stronger than chains or laws. Sometimes you are held by your need to be owned by someone, by the depth of love you have for that person and they for you, and the need to be able to be who you truly are. In some relationships, this is what the Master is able to accomplish with his slave. People can and do walk out of marriages too, but does that mean that marriage doesn't really exist?

Just my two cents for what it's worth. Your mileage may vary.

anna

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RE: Can there auctually be Real Slavery in this lifestyle? - 8/11/2008 5:30:55 PM   
subtee


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Status: offline 		It seems to me the operative words are "in this lifestyle." No, is the answer. I watched a show last night about the dude who kept his daughter in the basement for 24 years and fathered 7 kids with her...that's slavery, but within the context of "the lifestyle." [Notice the quotation marks.]

Now the semantic arguments about "the lifestyle" can begin...


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RE: Can there auctually be Real Slavery in this lifestyle? - 8/11/2008 5:32:28 PM   
ProtagonistLily


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quote:


Status: offline i have oftened wondered about this. How can someone be a true slave when they always have the option to walk away. Looking for example, at the slaves that were brought here from Africa and comparing them to this type of lifestyle, is true slavery even a reality?

Big Yawn.....

PL


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RE: Can there auctually be Real Slavery in this lifestyle? - 8/11/2008 6:06:13 PM   
E2Sweet


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quote:

ORIGINAL: subiet

...How can someone be a true slave when they always have the option to walk away... Looking for example, at the slaves that were brought here from Africa and comparing them to this type of lifestyle, is true slavery even a reality?...


Heavily Edited... That's all I'm sayin'...

Yea, maybe its just best to say: The chances of you finding someone here who is more than willing to show you his or her view of what a slave is and does are probably better than average...


< Message edited by E2Sweet -- 8/11/2008 6:08:36 PM >

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RE: Can there auctually be Real Slavery in this lifestyle? - 8/11/2008 6:51:02 PM   
Huntertn


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Status: offline 		there is No legal slavery period, but there is illegal slavery.  but as far as having a title on a slave..that kind of legal..No, not anywhere

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RE: Can there auctually be Real Slavery in this lifestyle? - 8/11/2008 7:31:21 PM   
Leatherist


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RE: Can there auctually be Real Slavery in this lifestyle? - 8/11/2008 7:54:58 PM   
opposingtwilight


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Is it -legal- to enslave and keep someone else in this country? No.

However, it is possible to enslave someone. I'm not going to rehash the idea of consensual slavery and go on and on about devotion. If someone is devoted, they won't -want- to leave so it doesn't matter if they have the ability to do so or not. They're devoted. They don't wanna go.

Stopping just short of abuse, it is possible to legally create a physical and emotional environment whereby a person could -not- leave. Emotionally, a person can be manipulated to the point that the mere idea of actually trying to leave would never occur to them or if it did, it would be so frightening and so overwhelming that they would never act upon that thought on their own.

On the physical aspect of things if the slave hasn't had a job, doesn't have any sort of transportation or way of getting a job, has no money of their own and is entirely dependent upon the owner then how are they going to just get up and walk out? Its pretty easy to project our own situation onto someone else's and say, "Well, if it were me, I would just take a hike!" But it isn't you and that may just not be possible.

Are any laws being broken? No. And I imagine if the situation were to become desperate, the slave could find some way to leave and -if- they contacted legal authorities, it would not be lawful for the former owner to come and sieze the slave as a "runaway" but those are some pretty steep ifs.


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RE: Can there auctually be Real Slavery in this lifestyle? - 8/11/2008 10:47:47 PM   
candystripper


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Status: offline 		There is NO LEGAL WAY to enslave someone in the United States.  There are people held against their will...prisoners...forensic psych patients...nursing home residents....so if you truely desire a 'reality based' slave I suppose you could seek employment among these kinds of industries...but you had better not get caught having a D/s relationship with an inmate and you yourself will be subjugated to the will of superiors.
 
candystripper

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RE: Can there auctually be Real Slavery in this lifestyle? - 8/11/2008 11:56:00 PM   
opposingtwilight


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RE: Can there auctually be Real Slavery in this lifestyle? - 8/12/2008 1:04:28 AM   
rookey


Posts: 100
Status: offline 		Slavery is forced and non-consenual servitude.  So by definition the only way for it to real, would be to blackmail or kidnap someone. 

In the context of BDSM I think slavery is really a synonym for submission.

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RE: Can there auctually be Real Slavery in this lifestyle? - 8/12/2008 1:48:32 AM   
DomDolf


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

How about, Native Americans?  Spanish?  Portuguse?  English?  Chinese?  Slavery is a bit more diverse than the Africa slant, which I am guessing is used simply for the shock factor.
 
My suggestion, pull out a few books, particularly dictionaries and find the definition of slavery.  Then come back think about whether you might ask the same question.
 
the.dark.

 
I would have to challenge whether this was done for the shock factor. I have to admit that when I think of slavery, while I am very aware of all the others that have been enslaved, I think of slaves brought here from Africa. This got me thinking. I wonder if this is because of the amount of influence that slavery has had in our current society? An off topic thought that would be better served on the Off Topic list. I will leave it as an out loud thought.

Dolf

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RE: Can there auctually be Real Slavery in this lifestyle? - 8/12/2008 2:19:58 AM   
DomDolf


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rookey

Slavery is forced and non-consenual servitude.  So by definition the only way for it to real, would be to blackmail or kidnap someone. 

In the context of BDSM I think slavery is really a synonym for submission.


Consensual slavery exists. There are different forms and levels of submission. Slavery is not a synonym for submission. You must be submissive to be a slave but do not have to be a slave to be submissive.

Dolf

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RE: Can there auctually be Real Slavery in this lifestyle? - 8/12/2008 2:38:02 AM   
RCdc


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomDolf

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

How about, Native Americans?  Spanish?  Portuguse?  English?  Chinese?  Slavery is a bit more diverse than the Africa slant, which I am guessing is used simply for the shock factor.
 
My suggestion, pull out a few books, particularly dictionaries and find the definition of slavery.  Then come back think about whether you might ask the same question.
 
the.dark.

 
I would have to challenge whether this was done for the shock factor. I have to admit that when I think of slavery, while I am very aware of all the others that have been enslaved, I think of slaves brought here from Africa. This got me thinking. I wonder if this is because of the amount of influence that slavery has had in our current society? An off topic thought that would be better served on the Off Topic list. I will leave it as an out loud thought.

Dolf


Well I see it as purely 'shock factor' merely by stating african slavery.  Slavery existed and exists regardless or colour, race or sex.  And if people fail to realise how much unethical slavery exists in this fucked up, yet wonderful world we live on, then I find that incredibly naive.
 
I also find it pretty bizzaro the the people most likely to nod their heads and say, 'yes, yes - slavery is badbadbad and it cannot legal exist in the modern parts of the world(said in their best gruff voice) are the ones happiest to shop at K-mart (or Asda if your English) or purchase those cheap shoes or cloth from a discount store.

On the ethical front, legalities do not have to enter the equasion.  People do use slavery as a buzz word, ignoring the fact that slavery can even exist with one single person involved as leatherist has already touched - if in humour only.  But it still does exist and so negating peoples surrender to their own slavery is pretty sucky and in a sense, an act of non consensual slavery in itself.
Go figure.
 
the.dark.

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RE: Can there auctually be Real Slavery in this lifestyle? - 8/12/2008 2:41:23 AM   
DMFParadox


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Prinsexx

quote:

ORIGINAL: subiet

i have oftened wondered about this. How can someone be a true slave when they always have the option to walk away. Looking for example, at the slaves that were brought here from Africa and comparing them to this type of lifestyle, is true slavery even a reality?

true
slave
lifestyle
reality
these are all questionable constructs.....



Fvcking BRILLIANT.  Yes!!!!  Thank you.  Hell, I'm sending a friend request.

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RE: Can there auctually be Real Slavery in this lifestyle? - 8/12/2008 2:41:53 AM   
rookey


Posts: 100
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomDolf

quote:

ORIGINAL: rookey

Slavery is forced and non-consenual servitude.  So by definition the only way for it to real, would be to blackmail or kidnap someone. 

In the context of BDSM I think slavery is really a synonym for submission.


Consensual slavery exists. There are different forms and levels of submission. Slavery is not a synonym for submission. You must be submissive to be a slave but do not have to be a slave to be submissive.

Dolf


Like I say slavery is by definition non-consenual, so the expression 'consenual slavery' is a contradiction in terms.  In BDSM the term slavery has had it's meaning extended to become a synonym of submission, which can be consenual.

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RE: Can there auctually be Real Slavery in this lifestyle? - 8/12/2008 2:44:45 AM   
RCdc


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rookey
Like I say slavery is by definition non-consenual, so the expression 'consenual slavery' is a contradiction in terms.  In BDSM the term slavery has had it's meaning extended to become a synonym of submission, which can be consenual.


Firstly, welcome to the forums rookey!
 
I wanted to state that although slavery is by one definition, non consensual, it is only one definition.  As with many words in the dictionary, there are numerous definitions, non consent being one of them.  But there are many more.
 
the.dark.

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RE: Can there auctually be Real Slavery in this lifestyle? - 8/12/2008 3:03:03 AM   
rookey


Posts: 100
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rookey
Like I say slavery is by definition non-consenual, so the expression 'consenual slavery' is a contradiction in terms.  In BDSM the term slavery has had it's meaning extended to become a synonym of submission, which can be consenual.


quote:

ORIGINAL:Darcyandthedark
Firstly, welcome to the forums rookey!

 
Thank you Darcy and the dark, I'm glad to be here.

quote:

ORIGNAL:Darcyandthedark
I wanted to state that although slavery is by one definition, non consensual, it is only one definition.  As with many words in the dictionary, there are numerous definitions, non consent being one of them.  But there are many more.
 
the.dark.


To be clearer on what I'm trying to say.  The same word has different meanings attributed to it in different contexts.  In the broader context slavery means nonconsenual servitude.  Something which is, very unforunately, still with us. 

In the context of BDSM I see your point it means something different, it means a consenual realtionship.

Perhaps I was being a bit pedantic.

 

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RE: Can there auctually be Real Slavery in this lifestyle? - 8/12/2008 3:05:42 AM   
DomDolf


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rookey

Like I say slavery is by definition non-consenual, so the expression 'consenual slavery' is a contradiction in terms.  In BDSM the term slavery has had it's meaning extended to become a synonym of submission, which can be consenual.


I understood what you were saying. In BDSM there are paradoxical situations and there are things that you may feel are contradictions, but they exist. Your defining something, even if from a dictionary, in this lifestyle will not always make you right.

By the way, I join with the.dark, in welcoming you to the forums.

Dolf

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