RE: Cuckolding

RE: Cuckolding (Full Version)

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malakas -> RE: Cuckolding (7/5/2006 9:55:41 PM)
I totally agree with MistressLorelei that "a cuckold relationship is usually not about sex games, but is a special relationship, that contains a dynamic and emotions that can not be understood by someone who does not have these desires." I hope I didn't give the impression that my ex and I were dabbling superficially in cuckoldry. I didn't suggest cuckoldry as a "sex game." I had a genuine desire to explore the unique "dynamic and emotions," but until we took the journey I honestly didn't know if the reality would fulfill the fantasy, if the fulfillment of the desires would be what I envisioned. It is a very intense dynamic that entails self-sacrifice not usually found even in "true love." The physical aspect is only the tip of the iceberg: to me, the unique intensity of cuckoldry is in the mind. It was only after about a year of being in the cuckold relationship that I concluded it would not fulfill me in all the ways I need to be fulfilled. But it was no game while we were doing it.

malakas -> RE: Cuckolding (7/5/2006 10:13:20 PM)
I don't think Akasha and MistressLorelei are in disagreement because each is viewing a cuckold relationship from a different perspective. Whether intentionally or inadvertently, Akasha's description is spot on from the perspective of the cuckold: the humiliation, objectification, emasculation, physical discomfort from denial of relief and feelings of inadequacy are precisely what created the desired intensity for me as the cuckold. That's what turned me on. MistressLorelei accurately describes what my ex told me turned her on about cuckolding and how my ex viewed the relationship. My ex would have been more than willing to have the relationship MistressLorelei describes, but that description does not coincide with the factors at play for me as the cuckold.

MistressLorelei -> RE: Cuckolding (7/5/2006 10:30:37 PM)
AAkasha wrote: quote: But does what you describe fall more under the category of "poly" than "cuckold"? It seems to me that there are some common underlying themes in the cuckold relationship, often focussing on the submissive being denied, sometimes with humiliation as part of the core of it, and sometimes being "forced" to service the man brought into the relationship. The common themes I see in cuckold fantasy are not about a loving couple where the woman takes on additional lovers and her mate is happy for her and they feel complete; more often, she is taking on other lovers to tease, humiliate and make her primary partner feel objectified, humiliated or inadequate. I have not heard of many cuckold fantasies where the woman takes on the additional lovers and the primary is not involved, humiliated, objectified or somehow involved; he is not merely acting as a removed third party, happy she is content, with a "don't ask, don't tell" rule. If a femdom decides to take on additional male lovers just because she's seeking additional pleasures, and the primary partner is ok with that and is happy because it makes her happy, to me that's very different from a cuckold relationship where the submissive's role is as a secondary, a humiliated victim, an objectified and denied player in the game. The way you describe the feelings as being something someone could not understand to me sound more like "poly" vs. "monogamous" -- but maybe I am missing something. I could much easier envision myself as poly with my current lover/relationship; that's not a leap at all. However, to consider a cuckold relationship would change the dynamic entirely. I can reflect on relationships where I might have been able to very successfully integrate cuckolding; however, in all those cases, the man is so entirely replacable as a lover that he's also replacable as a primary mate, and thus wouldn't last long as a life partner. For a hot fling over a period of time -- absolutely! But as a lifelong relationship? If the sexual dynamic is based on his inability to fulfil then he's doomed to fail, in my opinion. Akasha I respect your views, and know that we will continue to see things differently, but to clarify... What I describe is a cuckold relationship as I know it to be. Perhaps not the common "slut wife" scenarios we read about, but an ideal cuckold relationship nonetheless. The inability to fulfill would also describe the secondary partner... as his role, even if perfect sexually, does not stand alone. The cuckold plays a huge role in being able to fulfill my needs. There may indeed be humiliation, objectification, and denial involved in the cuckold relationship, as humiliation and chastity are areas that excite me to the extreme. Having the cuckold participate in acts with a lover is a strong possibility as well.... but these things don't mean that I wouldn't care about my cuckold. In fact, the bond shared because of these things would only grow stronger. If I am fulfilled in a relationship which includes denial and humiliating my partner in whatever way, and having sexual (or any) relations outside of the cuckold relationship; and if the cuckold is fulfilled by having an intense bond with a satisfied (however that may be) partner, while he remains chaste, and is used as she deems necessary, and both care enough about the other enough to endure anything... the relationship is not always destined for doom, even in the long-term.

LTRsubNW -> RE: Cuckolding (7/6/2006 10:10:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MistressLorelei A cuckold relationship ... is a special relationship, that contains a dynamic and emotions that can not be understood by someone who does not have these desires; Really well said. 20 years ago someone took me to a fabulous museum showing of some of Piccaso's (sp?) work. Prominently on display were some of his "cubism" works. Other than in magazines and such, I'd never seen any Piccaso and certainly not up close as on that day. Now, as the years have progressed, I've come to appreciate more art that entirely eluded me in my youth, but I can tell you without question, even as a dozen well respected, knowledgeable art patrons were ooooing and awwwwing all around this display extolling how fabulous the art was, how ground breaking Pablo was for his time, how cubism literally changed everything we knew about art and representation, I can honestly tell you, 20 years later...I just flat out don't get it. But, the people that pay 20, 30 and even 100 million dollars for works of this type, they "get it". Bully for them. Cuckolding, I get it. (And I'm glad, 'cause it works for me)

tantalized -> RE: Cuckolding (7/6/2006 12:38:20 PM)
This is a fascinating thread, especially to one who finds the fantasy of cuckolding incredibly enticing, played around with at least unequal infidelity and threesomes when much younger, but lives in a purely monogamous relationship. Let's admit up front that Akasha is quite right that sexual emotions are very powerful things which cannot be controlled. And let's also admit that it's perfectly possible (and not infrequent) that someone in a perfectly vanilla marriage can meet and fall in love with another. Sometimes that love destroys the marriage. Sometimes, the person just walks away. But you cannot predict when a fire will be lit, even with the best of "it's only sexual" intentions. I'd like to go back to Akasha's earlier post for a moment: quote: ORIGINAL: AAkasha I think this is an example of a sub male fantasy that is desired to an "extreme" level, thus making it more unattainable (especially if you want an otherwise mutually loving, affectionate, traditional relationship/marriage) or almost impossible. Why does the cuckold sub desire it to the extreme, and why is a compromise or "just a taste of it" not enough? <snip> To me, the cuckolding quest is similar to a masochist who will never settle for some spanking and occassional intense pain play, but sets his sights on a full-on sadist who wants to beat him bloody 4 - 5 times a week. Or a submissive who does not want to even consider entering a relationship where he may have the opportunity to serve; instead, he is "holding out" for a woman who will cage him 24/7 and keep him serving constantly. What I think she's describing (and with all respect for those who have maintained successful cuckold relationships) is something that has been entirely scripted by sub before anything has actually taken place. That's what I find so frequently unrealistic in many internet cuckold posts. We're not talking about going to a professional here, where you say, "Here's the scene I want." We're talking about an actual relationship. Frankly, I've never seen anyone who's relationship goes according to a preconceived script. Life is just too complicated. What was an absolute turn-on yesterday may not be the thing which turns you on tomorrow. Frankly, I often don't know if my love wants lovemaking until we get into bed, and then I don't know if it's going to be kinky, vanilla, short, long ... you get the idea. And that's just sex. Throw jobs and friendships and money and kids and illness and stress into the mix, and all prediction goes out the window. In my experience, everyone changes all the time. Either you grow together or you grow apart. But you don't have stasis, and a scripted relationship just reeks of stasis. Akasha's later point about her breath-control fantasy is very apt. I love to be teased. I love to be denied. And if when teasing and denying me, I'm threatened with never entering my love again, I go off like a rocket. But do I actually want that? Never? Probably better left for fantasy. What happens if the cuck discovers that he can't handle it? What happens if the woman (as one poster here discovered) finds that what was once fun is now not what she wants? It's one thing to be open to incorporating some aspects of cuckoldry into your play. It's another entirely to say, "This is the way it is going to be and this will never change." I've watched another guy's cock slip into a college gf and found it very, very hot. I had a lover who never let me penetrate her and found it very, very hot. But I've never been in a relationship which was unchanging over time. At the same time, the fantasy (at least in some variation) is as hot as anything I know.

MistressLorelei -> RE: Cuckolding (7/6/2006 3:45:03 PM)
I agree with you. I do not want to live someone else's script. I want to write the play as we go along. There are some things I know I need in a relationship, and there are also many variables. This seems common in most any type of relationship. I would prefer a submissive male who will care enough about me, and be happy to endure whatever I deem necessary, rather than one who is a "cuckold" in waiting. Relationships do change throughout time, and being involved in a cuckold relationship will undoubtedly have changes and surprises along the way. Many people aren't certain how they will react in a long-term D/s relationship, or how it will really feel to be a full-time slave, etc. A cuckold scenario is no different in this respect. If I care enough about someone to make him my cuckold, then I am going to do whatever it takes to help him get through whatever comes our way. Sexual emotions are of the most highly charged... but everyone has different triggers, and people respond differently to sexual stimuli. A cuckold relationship could be a traumatic, horrifying experience for one, and a bonding, meaningful, lifelong experience for another. Communication, support, and knowing the person you are getting involved with is crucial to this type, or any type of relationship. If I said 'yeah, but what if....' every time I really wanted something, or felt strongly about something, I wouldn't have experienced half of what I have in my life. What if my former submissive 'can't tolerate (physically or emotionally) breath play, long-term chastity, bondage, extreme humiliation?' I may have wondered these things, but, I now know that the answer is wow, could he ever.

tantalized -> RE: Cuckolding (7/6/2006 6:05:11 PM)
There's one more thing which I should add that wasn't in my post: I truly don't get/believe the "pathetic male" part of the fantasy. I believe it takes a great deal of strength and self-assurance to trust that one's partner is going to fuck someone else and still come back to you, no matter what type of poly relationship one has. I can understand, "I am going to deny you but not another man" as a form of torture/control/what have you. But, again, it's almost "I can deny you because you're strong enough to take it." If I'm not good enough (and here's where I agree entirely with Akasha) then why are you with me and not the other man? In fantasy, I can imagine I can take it. In life, it might not work so well. If there's love involved, both partners would have to adjust or else move on.

MistressLorelei -> RE: Cuckolding (7/6/2006 9:27:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tantalized There's one more thing which I should add that wasn't in my post: I truly don't get/believe the "pathetic male" part of the fantasy. I believe it takes a great deal of strength and self-assurance to trust that one's partner is going to fuck someone else and still come back to you, no matter what type of poly relationship one has. I can understand, "I am going to deny you but not another man" as a form of torture/control/what have you. But, again, it's almost "I can deny you because you're strong enough to take it." If I'm not good enough (and here's where I agree entirely with Akasha) then why are you with me and not the other man? In fantasy, I can imagine I can take it. In life, it might not work so well. If there's love involved, both partners would have to adjust or else move on. It seems that a cuckold relationship may not be right for you, and that's fine. Many cuckold relationships fail; many vanilla relationships fail, as well as many of a bdsm nature. We are all hoping to beat the odds when relationships are concerned. Indicating that a cuckold relationship can not work outside of a fantasy seems a moot point, as there are many successful, mutually fulfilling, long-term cuckold relationships; many happy cuckolds and women who keep them. Many of these relationships do exist beyond fantasy, even if they may not exist beyond yours. Pathetic is often a state of mind. I do agree that most submissive males, especially ones who are cuckolded, are some of the strongest males around. I do not understand why so often, cuckold relationships are picked apart so literally. I would think that being humiliated, feminized, made to wear diapers, being defecated or urinated upon; made to behave as an animal (puppy/pony); being tied up, gagged, spanked, etc. could all be construed in some way, as being "pathetic". Most of us choose a partner who we consider to be a valuable human being, regardless of if the word pathetic is used to describe that person. There are many circumstances where a strong, capable person may be in a relationship situation where he may indeed be made to feel pathetic... and many people are more than okay with feeling this way. Some find comfort and contentment in such a feeling. It has been a positive aspect of my experiences. You may not be "good enough" in some aspects of the relationship, where she would be with another man instead. I think it's the combination of all the relationships, and the meaning they each take on, that really satisfies the "good enough".

michaelGA2 -> RE: Cuckolding (7/6/2006 9:33:22 PM)
if i understand correctly "cuckolding" is a form of voyerism. i will never understand it though. i've got burned out on porn so why would i want to go watch strangers put on a live show?

malakas -> RE: Cuckolding (7/7/2006 1:19:32 AM)
The point Akasha is making is well taken. A cuckold marriage is unsustainable because cuckoldry necessarily entails fundamental disrespect for the cuckold. Indeed, that's the turn on for the cuckold. I speak as someone who explored a cuckold relationship for a year with an open mind and who got off and gets off on it. I would not try to incorporate cuckoldry into a marriage because it is a lost cause. I have known several couples that tried to incorporate cuckoldry into a marriage. Out of the five married couples I can think of off the top of my head, two broke up after a couple of years because the woman fell in love with a bull and left the cuckold, two broke up within five years because the woman lost respect for her cuckold husband and one broke up after about five years because the cuckold lost respect for himself and had a nervous breakdown.

MistressLorelei -> RE: Cuckolding (7/7/2006 6:40:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: malakas The point Akasha is making is well taken. A cuckold marriage is unsustainable because cuckoldry necessarily entails fundamental disrespect for the cuckold. Indeed, that's the turn on for the cuckold. I speak as someone who explored a cuckold relationship for a year with an open mind and who got off and gets off on it. I would not try to incorporate cuckoldry into a marriage because it is a lost cause. I have known several couples that tried to incorporate cuckoldry into a marriage. Out of the five married couples I can think of off the top of my head, two broke up after a couple of years because the woman fell in love with a bull and left the cuckold, two broke up within five years because the woman lost respect for her cuckold husband and one broke up after about five years because the cuckold lost respect for himself and had a nervous breakdown. I guess someone should notify the couples who are in the midst of enjoying successful cuckold marriages, and tell them they aren't really successful after all. Most of us here at Collar Me have experienced uncuccessful D/s relationships.... should we all just give up looking now? Everyone's point of view is valid for their relationships. Truth is, there is no black and white, or right or wrong on this lifestyle choice.

MistressLorelei -> RE: Cuckolding (7/7/2006 6:53:57 AM)
Posted twice instead of editing previous post. Deleted

LTRsubNW -> RE: Cuckolding (7/7/2006 9:41:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MistressLorelei Most of us here at Collar Me have experienced uncuccessful D/s relationships.... should we all just give up looking now? EggZAKLY :) (And as for me personally...instead of giving up...I'd be more inclined to somehow legalizing shooting my ex)

SDFemDom4cuck -> RE: Cuckolding (7/7/2006 12:05:51 PM)
quote: The point Akasha is making is well taken. A cuckold marriage is unsustainable because cuckoldry necessarily entails fundamental disrespect for the cuckold. Indeed, that's the turn on for the cuckold. I speak as someone who explored a cuckold relationship for a year with an open mind and who got off and gets off on it. I would not try to incorporate cuckoldry into a marriage because it is a lost cause. My first question would be why you feel a cuckold marriage is a lost cause? What happened within the cuckold relationship that changed your interest in it to proclude attempting it within a marriage?? While I'm sure that there are unsuccessful cuckold marriages just as there are unsuccessful vanilla marriages. Personally I was in a successful cuckold relationship for 6 years and were it not for the death of My cuck I would still be with him today. Of course you're probably saying that I can't possibly know that. However I can. Because a cuckold relationship, as with any relationship, grows, changes and evolves just as the two people within it do. It will (and does) work as long as there is communication and trust. O/our relationship evolved and changed on a continual basis as well as having a bi-annual "negotiation" for want of a better word on what was working and what wasn't for both parties.Without communication that brings in frustration and anger. When those two things break down so does the relationship in most cases. A cuckold relationship is perfectly sustainable as long as BOTH parties are intent upon its doing so and work at it to survive. Of course this is simply My personal opinion.

lanwolf -> RE: Cuckolding (7/7/2006 3:30:14 PM)
I have never been a cuck but I have done puppy play, be in a relationship where forced feminization was done and I am intrigue with water sports and being a cuck and to me I see nothing humiliating or pathetic about any of this type of play. I have been told puppy play is humiliating and my response is not if you enjoy it. If I find I enjoy being a cuck and my Partner enjoys the cuckold relationship as well it will work because we both are happy. I cannot see how having this type of relationship is any different then any types of relationship if both partners are happy and there needs are met. As has been stated before every relationship changes with time as well. Both partners wants and needs will change as they grow and develop this is not a bad thing as long as both communicate these changes in a positive way. I would hope that in a cuckold relationship there is a lot of communication between both because a one sided relationship in my opinion will never work.

malakas -> RE: Cuckolding (7/7/2006 6:55:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MistressLorelei quote: ORIGINAL: malakas The point Akasha is making is well taken. A cuckold marriage is unsustainable because cuckoldry necessarily entails fundamental disrespect for the cuckold. Indeed, that's the turn on for the cuckold. I speak as someone who explored a cuckold relationship for a year with an open mind and who got off and gets off on it. I would not try to incorporate cuckoldry into a marriage because it is a lost cause. I have known several couples that tried to incorporate cuckoldry into a marriage. Out of the five married couples I can think of off the top of my head, two broke up after a couple of years because the woman fell in love with a bull and left the cuckold, two broke up within five years because the woman lost respect for her cuckold husband and one broke up after about five years because the cuckold lost respect for himself and had a nervous breakdown. I guess someone should notify the couples who are in the midst of enjoying successful cuckold marriages, and tell them they aren't really successful after all. Most of us here at Collar Me have experienced uncuccessful D/s relationships.... should we all just give up looking now? Everyone's point of view is valid for their relationships. Truth is, there is no black and white, or right or wrong on this lifestyle choice. Fair enough. I will concede that it can work in theory, but I have yet to encounter one that worked in practice over the long haul. The very nature of a cuckold relationship entails an implicit recognition of sexual inadequacy in the cuck which in my opinion renders the relationship fundamentally unsustainable long-term. By "inadequacy," I'm not necessarily referring to dick size or stamina but to all the intangibles that combine to give the woman sexual fulfillment. That's why the woman chooses to cuckold the cuck. If the cuck could sexually fulfill her, she would have no interest in cuckolding him. This implicit inadequacy and the attendant humiliation of how it played out, i.e., by my ex resorting to other men, is precisely what turned me on about being a cuckold. The consequences of this dynamic which I have seen play out in several cuckold relationships I know of personally, are one or more of the following: (1) the woman falls for a bull and leaves the cuck; (2) the woman loses respect for the cuck and walks; and/or (3) the cuck loses respect for himself and walks. Of course I cannot say it is impossible. What I can say is that the number of women and men interested in a long-term cuckold relationship is very small. The chances are very slim that a man who is exceptional even among cuckolds in being able to handle it long-term will meet a woman who is exceptional even among cuckoldresses for being able to handle it long-term. The chances are not zero, but they're very close to zero - in my opinion based on what I've personally experienced and couples I personally know.

LTRsubNW -> RE: Cuckolding (7/7/2006 7:33:39 PM)
Who the fuck are any of you? (Sorry..I felt an urge). Those of you that have a slight grasp (or more)..."get it". Those of you that don't...don't. And that's the way it is. I don't {"get it"} (about your thing), and frankly I don't understand why you don't "get" my thing...but here's the thing; It's my thing, and as I understand it...it ain't your thing. I'm all good with that. And you know what? It's a good thing. Truly. It's fabulous. In fact, right now, I'm thinking about that thing. (I'm actually having a problem, thinking about that thing because...it's a crazy motherfucker). And I have to tell you...it's beyond good.

malakas -> RE: Cuckolding (7/7/2006 8:29:40 PM)
I am not questioning your right to "your thing"; nor am I passing moral judgment on "your thing"; nor am I questioning your personal definition or understanding of whatever "your thing" happens to be. I am contending that if "your thing" is a sustainable long-term cuckold relationship - in real life rather than in the realm of fantasy - then "your thing" is a mirage. "Who the fuck" I am is irrelevant. What the fuck I'm saying is valid. That's what matters.

LTRsubNW -> RE: Cuckolding (7/7/2006 8:59:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: malakas I am not questioning your right to "your thing"; nor am I passing moral judgment on "your thing"; nor am I questioning your personal definition or understanding of whatever "your thing" happens to be. I am contending that if "your thing" is a sustainable long-term cuckold relationship - in real life rather than in the realm of fantasy - then "your thing" is a mirage. "Who the fuck" I am is irrelevant. What the fuck I'm saying is valid. That's what matters. Ya know...I can't argue that. It is what it is. And what you said is valid. Because you said it. Ergo, sum.

SDFemDom4cuck -> RE: Cuckolding (7/8/2006 1:34:23 PM)
quote: I am contending that if "your thing" is a sustainable long-term cuckold relationship - in real life rather than in the realm of fantasy - then "your thing" is a mirage. With all due respect, in your opinion it may very well be a mirage, that doesnt mean that it is for every person searching for a successful cuckold relationship. I've known couples that had sustainable cuckold marriages for now more than 20 years. Iwas in one for over 7 Myself. It does exist and it is sustainable. Simply because you have not experienced it or seen it occur does not mean it doesn't or cannot. It only means you haven't experienced it and you have then come to the conclusion that it isn't something you wish to attempt to persue in your life. What you're saying is potentially valid, in conjunction to your personal experience. Mine would be wholy the opposite however.

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