quote:

All you're doing is perpetuating a myth that puts other (granted, less experienced and perhaps with less common sense) folks in danger. Personally, I choose not to. I can live with that.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

Ok, let me simplify this whole issue. Please reply with a yes or no to the following questions:

Is death a limit for you?..I do not even equate death as part of wiitwd when I speak of limits. Death is not a issue or debate in Any relationship..so why on earth would I feel it is something soley related to wiitwd? I certainly never asked my ex-husband if death was a limit for him or even remotely felt compelled to tell him death was a limit for me before getting married.

Is dismemberment a limit for you? Same answer as above

Is bank robbery a limit for you? Same answer as above

Are activities that violate the TOS (don't wanna list them and get in trouble) a limit for you? Don't know what those are..but I do have enough sense I think to not discuss sensitive issue's or things that involve Non-consensenting parties.

Are ANY of these limits relative to who your Master is? Non of those top 3 are even within my logical thought process as being limits of wiitwd. Maybe they are in your realm.

Either you have those limits or you don't. I don't understand all the fuss in admitting reality. Those aren't limits. Those things are common sense..self preservation and are not things that just came out of the blue to be exclusive as part of a list in wiitwd.

To me..allow and accepting those as part of wiitwd is more harmful to those less experienced, and or with less common sense as you said, and to me makes about as much sense as trying to include washing your body as a "limit" in wiitwd.

Some things are just absurd, and the more people allow absurdities to fester the more blurred it will become.

starshine
Happy slave of Master Delvin

John

quote:

ORIGINAL: Theslavetrainer
Anyone can run away. Running away is not a right, it's an act of cowardice. It's a test of ones true self to stay on that path which ones has started and see it to its end. Of course, that is the old military man in me coming out.

quote:

ORIGINAL: starshineowned
Again..when I say I have "no limits"..I mean I have none of my own because the limits that are in place are those of my Owner.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren
Moving it back to a scene venue, the idea somehow that a relationship can stay right without a lot of effort on the part of both people reduced it to something out of a comic book or bad novel. When things go bad and one person's efforts are insufficient to bring them back, retreat is a sensible thing to do.

Of course, when the one hearing this is the one from whom others have run, that can smart a bit.

quote:

ORIGINAL: slavelinda
For this one, submissive is a personality trait and slave is a position or standing in a household. How could one be a true slave without being submissive?

quote:


There has never been a time in this one's life that she has been anything but submissive, even when she was a soldier she was submissive to her higher-ups and following orders obediently, willingly, and happily.

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After all, one can't be a slave without a Master.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: slavelinda
For this one, submissive is a personality trait and slave is a position or standing in a household. How could one be a true slave without being submissive?

Easily. I have a dominant personality but a slave orientation.

quote:


There has never been a time in this one's life that she has been anything but submissive, even when she was a soldier she was submissive to her higher-ups and following orders obediently, willingly, and happily.

Sounds good to me. My guess is there were also dominants with you who were submissive to higher ups and following orders happily.

quote:


After all, one can't be a slave without a Master.

Sure you can. At least I can.

quote:

ORIGINAL: anopheles
Lucky: Could you expound? I'm not sure I know exactly what you mean when you say slave orientation....

quote:

And many submissives have dominant personalities.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Sure. To me being a slave is an orientation, just like being heterosexual. To me it means "a person who is fulfilled in a primary intimate personal relationship by transferring all ultimate authority to another who accepts the authority over them."

This doesn't mean you are IN that relationship- simply that it is the relationship in which you will be fulfilled in.

I'm not owned, but I consider myself a slave because I know that is the type of primary relationship I am fulfilled in. Just as I may be a bisexual, even if I'm not having sex with anyone at a particular period in my life.

It's not a personality to me because many people have submissive or dominant personalities but are vanilla in orientation. And many submissives have dominant personalities.

quote:

ORIGINAL: fyreredsub

sure ,i'll share....disclaimer ....my opinions only...lol

1. i found as a sub i still had as much power in the relationship as i did when i topped, actually more as a sub,
(b/c my ex-subbie was training me to please his sammie needs,lol.)

as a submissive i have found that Doms will let me run the show[(my limits,how i want to be trained etc.) now perhaps its not all. maybe ,maybe not...just my experiences.] i felt as if i were the puppetmaster and they danced on my string and for their reward they got to have kinky sex.

2. i dont want my ass kissed, i want to be ruled. i will manipulate and use my womanly wiles to get my way in a heartbeat if a man isnt strong enough...to keep me in line...
someone posted once in the realist Gor Master thoughts ended w/ ......"the same woman that manipulate have a belly screaming for a man to own them"...or some such words.................well its true.at least for me.
*****
having a Master is diff than a Dom. b/c.....
re life decisions....
Master does allow me certain inputs into my life but basically the last decision i made was to be owned.He has the final say on everything and if i dont like it,its pretty much too bad.

i could be a lil wimp and beg release,lol, but if he says no,guess what again...sure i could run away but ...not me...

there will be days i get angry at master for breaking thro my walls, and taking some of the bad habits away.
there is pleasure in his building on the qualities he sees in me that attracted him to me in the first place.
there is joy in knowing how i please him and how proud he is of me.

Master is most wise and we do share the same goals for me professionally and i know my sexual limits will all be gone w/ the exception a very few and that is b/c those are his limits.

re:body....
i'm not controlling how far anyone can go w/ mine.my body is his and his manner is such that he will not cause me permanent harm..either physical or mental.

i asked a good many questions of him concerning many areas of my life before deciding if this was the way to go for me.
i do not commit my entire being for someone's use lightly.
i take this very seriously.....

hope this sheds some insight into what you were asking me *** still java deficient***

but bottom line
1.yes its all relative to the individual.....
2.limits are masters.........imo

quote:

ORIGINAL: brighthorizens

quote:

ORIGINAL: fyreredsub

sure ,i'll share....disclaimer ....my opinions only...lol

1. i found as a sub i still had as much power in the relationship as i did when i topped, actually more as a sub,
(b/c my ex-subbie was training me to please his sammie needs,lol.)

as a submissive i have found that Doms will let me run the show[(my limits,how i want to be trained etc.) now perhaps its not all. maybe ,maybe not...just my experiences.] i felt as if i were the puppetmaster and they danced on my string and for their reward they got to have kinky sex.

2. i dont want my ass kissed, i want to be ruled. i will manipulate and use my womanly wiles to get my way in a heartbeat if a man isnt strong enough...to keep me in line...
someone posted once in the realist Gor Master thoughts ended w/ ......"the same woman that manipulate have a belly screaming for a man to own them"...or some such words.................well its true.at least for me.
*****
having a Master is diff than a Dom. b/c.....
re life decisions....
Master does allow me certain inputs into my life but basically the last decision i made was to be owned.He has the final say on everything and if i dont like it,its pretty much too bad.

i could be a lil wimp and beg release,lol, but if he says no,guess what again...sure i could run away but ...not me...

there will be days i get angry at master for breaking thro my walls, and taking some of the bad habits away.
there is pleasure in his building on the qualities he sees in me that attracted him to me in the first place.
there is joy in knowing how i please him and how proud he is of me.

Master is most wise and we do share the same goals for me professionally and i know my sexual limits will all be gone w/ the exception a very few and that is b/c those are his limits.

re:body....
i'm not controlling how far anyone can go w/ mine.my body is his and his manner is such that he will not cause me permanent harm..either physical or mental.

i asked a good many questions of him concerning many areas of my life before deciding if this was the way to go for me.
i do not commit my entire being for someone's use lightly.
i take this very seriously.....

hope this sheds some insight into what you were asking me *** still java deficient***

but bottom line
1.yes its all relative to the individual.....
2.limits are masters.........imo

I absolutely love this answer and agree with you completely. I have always said the same thing, though not as clearly as you. Thank you for sharing that. It's nice to see others who see it the way I do.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LordODiscipline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Theslavetrainer
Anyone can run away. Running away is not a right, it's an act of cowardice. It's a test of ones true self to stay on that path which ones has started and see it to its end. Of course, that is the old military man in me coming out.

I would suppose that the answer to all of this rationalization is that you have now considered a tactical retreat as the very best strategy for a losing defensive line?

~J

quote:

ORIGINAL: Theslavetrainer
Not in the least LoD but some of us have other things to do then to sit all day and go around with someone that will tell one person they are right just because of the way she presented it and another that they are wrong because they presented the same idea in a different fashion. It's a myopic view of life and if this person does not wish to see anothers point of veiw from a different persepective then so be. It become a mute point. I have better amusements for my day.