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Evolution Instruction in FL - 8/24/2008 5:55:13 PM   
thornhappy


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Hi folks--

There's a great article about a science teacher who teaches evolution in FL, where many of the students are taught that the Bilble is inerrant:

"Some come armed with “Ten questions to ask your biology teacher about evolution,” a document circulated on the Internet that highlights supposed weaknesses in evolutionary theory. Others scrawl their opposition on homework assignments. Many just tune out."

The full article is here.

thornhappy
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RE: Evolution Instruction in FL - 8/24/2008 6:20:38 PM   
Raechard


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It's amazing what I took for granted growing up i.e. there was never any question about the theory of evolution not being taught.  I can't really understand what makes it so controversial, what is to fear in hearing another explanation? Those kids that weren't taught it are not only going to have a gap in their knowledge in terms of how other people see the world but also are not going to learn about a man that had an amazing methodical approach to finding answers and that's a real shame. 

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RE: Evolution Instruction in FL - 8/24/2008 6:37:23 PM   
Alumbrado


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The fundies don't care about evolution any more than the Church cared about the solar system... it is about making sure that the kids don't get the idea that they can use what they learned in school to rock the boat.

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RE: Evolution Instruction in FL - 8/24/2008 6:47:54 PM   
Jeffff


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

The fundies don't care about evolution any more than the Church cared about the solar system... it is about making sure that the kids don't get the idea that they can use what they learned in school to rock the boat.


Word!

Galileo Galilei

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RE: Evolution Instruction in FL - 8/24/2008 7:09:05 PM   
wulfgarw


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

The fundies don't care about evolution any more than the Church cared about the solar system... it is about making sure that the kids don't get the idea that they can use what they learned in school to rock the boat.


I'll second that!  Knowledge has always been the enemy of the church.  If not for religion and Xtianity, we would have had a man on the moon by the year 700.

But the truth always prevails, even after 1200 years of supression.

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RE: Evolution Instruction in FL - 8/24/2008 7:17:02 PM   
Thadius


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Ah the part you are missing is that many of the schools are not wanting folks to think for themselves, they just want folks to believe what they are taught and leave it at that.  Critical thinking is not taught or encouraged, which is really a shame.  The current debate on climate change is a good example, there is an entire generation that has been taught that global warming is fact, as opposed to encouraging the questions related to the subject (is the globe warming, if so why, if not why not, what can be done to continue or change that path... etc.).  You know the type of thinking that make people buck convention and seek answers beyond the conventional wisdom.

Religions have done so for centuries, and secularists are doing the same these days...

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RE: Evolution Instruction in FL - 8/24/2008 7:22:17 PM   
Alumbrado


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Of course the fundies weren't in the least bit interested in 'critical thinking' until they subverted the term as code for 'forced teaching of creationism, and fraudulent critiques of science'.

http://japark.newsvine.com/_news/2008/06/25/1609169-creationists-push-for-critical-thinking-no-joke-scientific-blogging

http://chronicle.com/news/article/4668/darwin-defeated-in-the-bayou-louisiana-encourages-critical-thinking-about-evolution


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RE: Evolution Instruction in FL - 8/24/2008 7:26:55 PM   
Thadius


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I am not referring to just this subject, I am talking about all subjects.

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RE: Evolution Instruction in FL - 8/24/2008 7:34:13 PM   
Alumbrado


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Bottom line, in all subjects, the fundies insist on blind faith, and play semantic games to reject logic and science... calling that 'critical thinking', and labelling the scientific method curriculum as 'not allowed to think for themelves', because students are 'forced' to accept evidence and results over personal belief in church doctrine is a dead end... it promotes ignorance, superstition, and intolerance, yet produces no breakthroughs in improving the human condition..... and Newspeak won't change that.


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RE: Evolution Instruction in FL - 8/24/2008 8:08:32 PM   
GreedyTop


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GOd love Mr. Campbell :)

(and I'm not just saying that cause he's a fellow clansman...LOL)

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RE: Evolution Instruction in FL - 8/24/2008 8:16:24 PM   
kittinSol


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Great article, I read it in the Boston Globe. Embarrassing question: who are these fundies you speak of?

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RE: Evolution Instruction in FL - 8/24/2008 8:18:15 PM   
Jeffff


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The school board and others that hold the purse strings.

Jeff

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RE: Evolution Instruction in FL - 8/24/2008 8:58:37 PM   
Termyn8or


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Oh boy this could be a hot topic indeed. I just did a search for "Ten questions to ask your biology teacher about evolution" and what I found was not convincing to say the least.

First of all they seem to attack Darwin specifically, saying photos were fake and all that. That the whole theory is based on non-facts. At the same time they are selling us non-facts that are much more far fetched. Preposterous I say, to say the least. they point out what they call faked evidence and fixed photos, yet in the Bible there are some pictures. Do you think these are actual photos of Jesus, Moses and whoever else ?

When you are in chemistry or metallurgy classes and they put up a representation of a molecule, do you think you are really looking at a molecule ? Hell no. Nobody has ever seen one, but for some reason the science and technology built upon such representations seem to work, or there would be no transistor, no internet, no alot of things. Truth is science has proven itself a hell of a lot more than religion.

The fact that you can read this post proves that their ideas on metallurgy and electronics was correct. The common transistor, of which there are millions in your computer proves they were on the right track. The building block of those ICs therein contain these transistors, and even though they couldn't see it, they figured out the silicon, doped with gallium (I think) produces a polarized material, and when sandwiched between layers of silicon doped with arsenic produces a device that can control a larger current by application of a smaller current, thus amplification. The very (CRT) monitor you may look at uses phosphorous similarly doped to produce the different colors. They are made into tiny dots and you can see them with a magnifying glass.

Now just how would these people come up with all this if their representative models as well as theories and conclusions were wrong ?

Really though, even as a dictator, I would only mess with this in one way. As a leader of a country such as this, abiding by the Constitution, creation via evolution. I have questions for the evolutionists as well.

The first day God created the Earth, how long was a day ? Were there people with calendars there to mark each passing day by our definition of a day ? Surely any one of them with a brain cell would admit that before the word day was defined, it could have been millions of years.

Some other day, God created Woman. Thing is God created every other species on the planet and gave them gender and reproductive abilities, why would an omnipotent being even think not to do that in the first place when creating his masterpiece, the pinnacle of Earthly domain ? To joke, because the subject is a joke but a very sad one, I guess Adam was allowed to jack off when he got his morning woodie. Onanism had not yet been defined.

Then to forestall the perception of incest they write that someone goes off to the land of Nod to get a Wife. Wait a minute, I thought there were only two people on the planet not long ago, what did this guy find, a non-human ?

Then they get to this tree of knowledge. That's the real kicker. Adam and Eve realize they are naked and sew fig leafs to cover their genitals. Do they contend that we were supposed to remain naked like animals and just stay in the garden of Eden forever ? That this is what our Creator wanted ? There is no way I believe that, and if true, why was the tree of knowledge even there ? To test them, like a Dom testing a sub or something. If that is the case why do we have the spirit to excel and to outdo ourselves and others ?

You ask creationists these questions and I can almost guarantee an answer that will be gibberish. They won't stop, you have to grab them by the throat and choke them, and say "Listen, none of this had happened yet". They have no conception of a timeline, nor anything else. It is all faith.

Last but not least, the Vatican has more gold than the US government, but they need your money.

That sums it up IMO. I firmly, and strongly believe that children can be taught the ways of their Parents, but under NO circumstances should anybody be allowed to indoctrinate them with religion. It is the most crippling thing that can happen tyo the human mind, and I think that exposing kids to religion should be punished by death.

Someone said we would have had a Man on the Moon in the year 700, at first I was going to express doubt about that statement, but having read what I have written, I am not so sure. The church has made great scientists and scholars of the past recant their most brilliant theories, well they did give them the choice of being burned at the stake.

I will agree that 90% of my problems are of my own making, but the problems of the world, I would say that religion has caused about 70% of it. Look around you, if you take the blinders off you can see almost. Look past the surface, and while you may not like what you see, it is better to know that it is there.

T

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RE: Evolution Instruction in FL - 8/24/2008 9:02:35 PM   
Vendaval


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It would funny as hell to watch them try the same tactic in a shop class.  I'm just saying...
 
Thanks for posting this, thorny. 

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RE: Evolution Instruction in FL - 8/24/2008 9:31:16 PM   
bipolarber


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Yes, Timmy, you can use your faith to stop that steel, carbide tipped rip blade from harming your fingers as you push the wood through the fence of the table saw... all you need is faith in Jesus. Remember, Jesus was a carpernter too...

(Insert horrible whine of a table saw as it suddenly comes in contact with flesh, flinging blood and mangled digits...)

Oh, Timmy, looks like your faith faltered there for a second... Okay class, everyone up to the sixth floor roof... we're going to test your faith against the illusion of gravity...another "theory" put forth by those godless heathen scientists."

This "teach the controversy" bullshit is EXACTLY that. Total and utter bullshit! Intelligent Design is no more a scientific theory than the story of Sleeping Beauty a primer for the science of cryonics. This is an attempt to dumb kids down, and push one religions' take on the world over established scientific method. Teach the controversy? THERE IS NO FUCKING CONTROVERSY! On one side you have religious fairtales with NO EVIDENCE at all, and on the other you have decades of fossil records, evidence of transitionary forms, and most recently, EXPERIMENTAL PROOF that evolution takes place. (A 20 year study of how bacteria adapted and flourished in changing conditions.)


Religion has fostered critical thinking and new ideas, Thad? REALLY? You can actually say that with a straight face? The church threatens anyone with a new idea...They used to often torture and kill anyone who challenged church authority. They threatened Gallileo's family with the inquisition, they burned Bruno at the stake for the idea that there might be life elsewhere in the universe... (The church didn't even officially admit that their model of  the universe was wrong until December of 1968, when Apollo 8 orbited the Moon!)

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RE: Evolution Instruction in FL - 8/24/2008 9:36:41 PM   
Thadius


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bipolarber

Religion has fostered critical thinking and new ideas, Thad? REALLY? You can actually say that with a straight face? The church threatens anyone with a new idea...They used to often torture and kill anyone who challenged church authority. They threatened Gallileo's family with the inquisition, they burned Bruno at the stake for the idea that there might be life elsewhere in the universe... (The church didn't even officially admit that their model of  the universe was wrong until December of 1968, when Apollo 8 orbited the Moon!)



Where did I say foster? I think I said repressed...  You have an interesting way of reading things, which explains alot.  I might even suggest that you try taking off the blinders, and doing a bit of critical thinking of your own.  Know what I mean?



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RE: Evolution Instruction in FL - 8/24/2008 9:38:37 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

GOd love Mr. Campbell :)

(and I'm not just saying that cause he's a fellow clansman...LOL)

Makes note to never go to sleep around GT.

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RE: Evolution Instruction in FL - 8/24/2008 9:49:07 PM   
Termyn8or


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bipo, I am not so sure you read Thad's post right. It does seem to contradict itself in the last line. He left a bit of a blank, it may have meant that now scientists, or the scientific community is engaged in the suppression that religion used to practice.

I myself am not sure. Perhaps you can clear it up Thad ? Now that someone brought it up, I am not sure exactly how you meant it.

Please clarify, because the last thing we need is an argument between people who might actually agree but chose the wrong word here and there, or whatever.

T

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RE: Evolution Instruction in FL - 8/24/2008 9:52:25 PM   
Thadius


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Term,

That is exactly the way I meant it and wrote it.  Allowing for an example of the process that some folks lack, to think about a missing piece of information.  I drew a straight line, talking about the lack of critical thinking being taught and the reason why... then skipped to saying it was the same thing that religion has done for centuries and what secularists are doing now.

As always,
Thadius

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RE: Evolution Instruction in FL - 8/24/2008 9:52:40 PM   
Termyn8or


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You beat me to it Thad. At least now I know.

Thing is, something I am still learning is that all people have to go on is your words. There is no inflection, tone of voice, nothing. I took it one way, he took it another, and you got in edgewise. OK, that's life on CM.

T

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