"The Rise & Fall of the M/s Community: A Cautionary Observation" (Full Version)

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Mercnbeth -> "The Rise & Fall of the M/s Community: A Cautionary Observation" (8/25/2008 4:03:04 PM)

I was saddened to learn that our favorite presenter will not be presenting at this year's Folsom Fringe. Trying to find out where Master Skip will be during this year's Leather Week festivities in SF, I stumbled across a transcript of the most recent presentation he gave as the keynote speaker at the Master/slave Conference held in Washington DC earlier this month.

I hope that others may find it as interesting as me. Its a long read, 9 pages without pictures.

I've quoted the first paragraph, however the full transcript can be found here: http://www.masterslaveconference.org/assests/downloads/08Chasey_Keynote_Address.pdf
quote:

The title of my address is “The Rise and Fall of the M/s Community: A Cautionary Observation,” and my premise is this: there is a cancer growing within the Master/slave community that poses a serious threat to its sustained health and well-being. We must root it out now, before it becomes an entrenched part of the community’s dynamic, lest we soon find ourselves dysfunctional, demoralized, irredeemably stagnant, and, as individuals, deriving little value from our participation in the community. “And just what is this purported threat?” you ask. In a word, incivility, and during the next several minutes we’re going to examine this condition in some depth, as well as the impact that it’s having on our community. But before we do, I want to share with you the context from which I’ll be speaking so that you’ll understand and appreciate the passion that informs my opinions.



KnightofMists -> RE: "The Rise & Fall of the M/s Community: A Cautionary Observation" (8/25/2008 8:12:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

I hope that others may find it as interesting as me. Its a long read, 9 pages without pictures.



A very good read indeed....  I found the following phrase of particular interest.

"...,that two of the primary causes of chronic incivility are narcissism and poor self-esteem,..."

It strikes me a valid and perceptive point that shouldn't go unnoticed in the passionate address of 9 pages.  I do believe that it is not just narcissism and poor self-esteem at the extremes that lead to incivility that Master Skip addresses.  Even minor afflictions can lead to incidents of incivility.  It is also important to point out that such afflictions can be temporary occurance that lead to these destructive behaviors in the moment. 

But... if such afflictions are the primary causes of incivility... what is it that we must do to combat these causes.  Master Skip speaks at length is personal view point on this issue.  In large part I very much agree with what is he speaking for.   Besides the values that he speaks about, I also suggest that we as individuals work on building our own strengths of character.  Humilty is one character strength that I believe can serve a person well and increase the civility between those we interact with.  As many know, Michael as let the boards.  He made no secret that he was wrestling with his own demons that many could label as narissistic and/or esteem issues.  However, Michaels openness of his own personal perspective was very much an exercise working throw the challenges he faced.  In short, what he shared was an exercise of humilty that served him and many of us.  I believe that Michaels efforts are an example for us in many ways.

I believe that Master Skip is challenging us to stem the tided of incivility and change the direction that he sees the community (M/s specifically) heading.  As I have been doing and continue to do so.. I will work at being a better me.. which in large part is building and improving upon my strengths of character.



NeedingMore220 -> RE: "The Rise & Fall of the M/s Community: A Cautionary Observation" (8/25/2008 8:29:42 PM)

Thank you for sharing this piece.  The author has a lot of wisdom to offer, not only about the world of M/s, but about the world in general.  Deep reading late at night, but very worthwhile.  My favorite paragraph:
 
"An enforced doctrine fosters an “us vs. them” mentality, and in subtle and not-so-subtle ways
we’ve already got much too much of that going on in our community. There’s ageism, racism,
classism, and regionalism; hets vs. homos; gays vs. lesbians vs. bisexuals; the Old Guard vs. the
avant garde; M/s vs. D/s; and Goreans vs.…everyone else. My impression of Goreans is that
they’re kind of like our Catholics, viewing themselves as the “one true church.” But there’s an
even bigger problem with “us vs. them” than the incivility it engenders: it reinforces the illusion of “the other.” As Buddha, Abraham, Jesus, Mohammad, and Mr. Rogers have taught us, the greatest barrier to peace and spiritual enlightenment is the false perception that what we identify as “me” is separate and apart from the rest of creation. This illusion of “me” and “you,” of “us” and “them,” is the underlying cause of every war that’s taken place on this planet and is at the core of all of our personal suffering."



Leatherist -> RE: "The Rise & Fall of the M/s Community: A Cautionary Observation" (8/25/2008 8:56:23 PM)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlY-JlE5ZCo



NeedingMore220 -> RE: "The Rise & Fall of the M/s Community: A Cautionary Observation" (8/25/2008 9:08:07 PM)

Trippy video.  [;)]



catize -> RE: "The Rise & Fall of the M/s Community: A Cautionary Observation" (8/25/2008 9:28:31 PM)

 
Show me an organization, an agency, a group that did not have rude, uncivil, back stabbing members. 
It is a powerful speech, perhaps a necessary warning, but my cynical bent leads me to believe he is ‘preaching to the choir’ and the folks it is intended for do not have ears to hear it.    



Wildfleurs -> RE: "The Rise & Fall of the M/s Community: A Cautionary Observation" (8/25/2008 9:31:41 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists


A very good read indeed....  I found the following phrase of particular interest.

"...,that two of the primary causes of chronic incivility are narcissism and poor self-esteem,..."



I thought that the speech was interesting. Not ground breaking but interesting. But the one thing that struck me as ironic was the sentence quoted by KoM on narcissism from a person called Master Skip.

C~

Before it comes up I'm well aware of the concept and history of earning leathers, earning titles, etc - I still find it very ironic.



Archer -> RE: "The Rise & Fall of the M/s Community: A Cautionary Observation" (8/25/2008 10:30:48 PM)

LOLLLLLL

Know that the idea that Master Skip is somehow narsasistic because he has the honorific before his name is beyond silly to anyone who actually knows the man.
If someone knows Master Skip Casey for any length of time they know that he resisted the honorific for many years telling folks he didn't deserve the honorific.
He finally relented after many years comming to grips with the idea of receiving the honorific graciously from those who bear him great respect.
A man who struggles with it and then learns to graciously accept the heartfelt respect of his community is hardly naricism. Calling a man to task over something you don't know about the man is far closer to incivility than graciously after years accepting an honorific ever could be.



DMFParadox -> RE: "The Rise & Fall of the M/s Community: A Cautionary Observation" (8/26/2008 12:12:49 AM)

Meh.

Civility can fail to solve any number of problems this guy cites as reasons to promote it.

Water seeks its level.  'Civility' is accumulated over time and winnowing, it's the type of comfort that happens when you and your friends sit in your easy chairs so often that they form to you.  Except, it's the society that sits, and customs are the seats upon which they rest.  As happens so often, what seems 'nice' becomes unsettling to people that aren't in the know; eventually, those people are brutes to you, while to them you seem either quaint or foolish.  And who's to say they aren't right?  Oh, that's right, you are.

I prefer to enjoy 'civil' behavior without any illusion that it's truly needed, or that I have a right to demand it.  (Doesn't stop me from demanding it, I just have a Buddhist attachment to the outcome.)



Owner4SexSlave -> RE: "The Rise & Fall of the M/s Community: A Cautionary Observation" (8/26/2008 12:42:46 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

I hope that others may find it as interesting as me. Its a long read, 9 pages without pictures.



A very good read indeed....  I found the following phrase of particular interest.

"...,that two of the primary causes of chronic incivility are narcissism and poor self-esteem,..."

It strikes me a valid and perceptive point that shouldn't go unnoticed in the passionate address of 9 pages.  I do believe that it is not just narcissism and poor self-esteem at the extremes that lead to incivility that Master Skip addresses.  Even minor afflictions can lead to incidents of incivility.  It is also important to point out that such afflictions can be temporary occurance that lead to these destructive behaviors in the moment. 

But... if such afflictions are the primary causes of incivility... what is it that we must do to combat these causes.  Master Skip speaks at length is personal view point on this issue.  In large part I very much agree with what is he speaking for.   Besides the values that he speaks about, I also suggest that we as individuals work on building our own strengths of character.  Humilty is one character strength that I believe can serve a person well and increase the civility between those we interact with.  As many know, Michael as let the boards.  He made no secret that he was wrestling with his own demons that many could label as narissistic and/or esteem issues.  However, Michaels openness of his own personal perspective was very much an exercise working throw the challenges he faced.  In short, what he shared was an exercise of humilty that served him and many of us.  I believe that Michaels efforts are an example for us in many ways.

I believe that Master Skip is challenging us to stem the tided of incivility and change the direction that he sees the community (M/s specifically) heading.  As I have been doing and continue to do so.. I will work at being a better me.. which in large part is building and improving upon my strengths of character.


KnightofMists,

I have not read the 9 page address yet.  however, I think it should be a thought provoking read based on the posts made to this thread.   

I did not realize Michael left the boards.  I always enjoy reading his honest and open posts.  I actually felt and thought he came a considerable way in his personal growth.  When I first encountered him (well over a year ago I believe), I felt he was a bit of a blow hard chest thumper.   Needless to say my opinion of thoughts about him changed.  He has indeed being going through a lot of changes.  It takes a certain degree of courage to be open with people.  It is a bit of a forced excerise in working through challenges one is faced with.   In many regards, I have done the same.

I have shared things about myself, my past, my life, and my current demons at times on here.  To show or reflect my whole human nature.   The good, the bad, the caring, the judgemental, the weak, the strong, the experience, the lack of experience, my fears, my confidence, sarcastic moments, soap box moments, moments of compassion, and moments of join in snarky lynch mobbing of some obvious idiot.  There are moments when I have defended people as well.  

There are times when I have made posts and felt a bit stupid afterwards.  Moments of feeling like a complete idiot or jackass.  I've had the fine pleasure of having to admit I had my head shoved up my ass.  To publically say, you know what, you guys are right about this.  Thank you for opening my mind.

It takes honestly for their to be growth or change in ones life.  You have to be honest with yourself and other people.

I know I don't always appear to be a level headed guy at times.  If anything I'm just showing my humanity.  Strength and Weakness.  I'm far from perfect.

I enjoyed Micheal for the fact, he took the extra steps to be honest and open.  To show to people the full human being that he is.  Not some fake posturing idiot in a BDSM Dom costume.   I think everybody can agree, Micheal is anything but fake.  He's a very real person, and in my book a very real DOM.

I have yet to read the 9 pages that Master Skip wrote.  I am certain that it's worth my time to do so. 



Owner4SexSlave -> RE: "The Rise & Fall of the M/s Community: A Cautionary Observation" (8/26/2008 1:39:21 AM)

I will probally making some comments on a number of things Master Skip addressed.  I'm going make seperate posts, and perhaps over the course of the next day or two.   Anyways, I think he is addressing a very important issue.  This is one of the major problems with how complete strangers interact with one another online.
"Masters and other Doms should restrict their dominance to those who have consented to it; slaves and their submissive kin who inflict unsolicited subservience onto others should be deemed in violation of civility’s dictates. … And those on either side of the D/s coin, who find themselves unable or unwilling to control their nasty behavior, would do well to seek out the professional help they surely and sorely need."
 
I totally agree with him pointing to both sides of the D/s coin here.  Ironic as it is, I have experinced submissive types before trying to inflict unsolicited subservience.  It actually makes me feel really uncomfortable when it occurs.  If I'm not interested in a D/s relationship or even D/s play (online or real time) with somebody, all the subservience in the world won't make it happen. 
 
I'm not into doing D/s for the mindless sake of doing it.  I'm probally the last person that one has to worry about trying to force D/s upon anybody who is not consenting to it either.
 
It's a basic matter of respect for other human beings.  I would dare expound upon this being the result of people in the lifestyle attempting to excuse their behavior by seperating themselves from the rest of the human race.
 
I've made a number of posts on this message board, where I have expressed this as my own view or observation.  It actually irrates me, that many Doms/Masters go around expecting to force submission upon those who have not consented.  That submission is an act of free will.   That if it occurs it's a rather natural process.  Not something that is forced.
 
I know for a fact, that this kind of behavior has left a bad taste in many newbie subs/slaves just discovering "the lifestyle".   Not exactly a good experience for somebody new.  In fact I suspect this has scared away a number of completely wonderful submissives/slaves.
 
On a personal level comment, the girl I'm currently exploring things with.  Her experiences from her attempts at meeting a decent DOM have left a bad taste in her mouth.   To the point she simply refuses to proclaim being into "BDSM" but rather just D/s.   She basically does not want to associate herself with the "BDSM" label.   Mind you she's into D/s, Bondage, and rough crazy kinky sex.   I'm actually a little Amazed that she responded to my profile, because my username is rather extreme sounding.   She wants to be loved and cared for, and not some mindless doormat to be truely used and abused.   The downside, is that is what her impression about the "BDSM community" is all about.   After all the countless mindless emails from Dom/Masters.   Then with the few she started to get to know, and then them showing their true colors as time passed.
 
I want to refer to her as my little girl, but we are still in the getting to know one another stages.  However, I already have a bit of a place for her in my heart.  She's something more to besides a fuck steak dinner.  Anyways, her impression of what the majoritity of the BDSM community is not a good one.
 
I honestly believe that Master Skip is addressing some serious issues.  In terms of the Rise and Fall of the M/s Community.
 
My little girl, really looks down upon M/s relationships.  It's based mainly upon her interactions with DOMs/Masters so far.
Both of us have been getting to know each other as human beings.  Dropping the Dom and submissive pretext in the process.  If D/s is going to happen, it's going to be a natural process that occurs between our personalities.  Not something that's forced along playing out some fantasy stereotype.   Just because I'm a DOM, it's no excuse for bad manners and trying to force things along.   I do find what I nickname my "Dom Containment field" faulter rather naturally this this girl.  I think this might be a clue that the potential for a D/s relationship is there.  When little bubbles of D/s naturally flow without thinking about it, nor forcing it along.



masterforRT -> Hmmmm (8/26/2008 2:08:43 AM)

When I basically said the same thing a few weeks ago---I was treated uncivilly here!

The post was about how Doms should be respected for their position even though you might not respect them as persons.

Pot calling the kettle black, perhaps? I don't know...but he must have been thinking of THIS place when he wrote this.

Can this be turned around? I don't know....but a good start would be less nastiness in these very forums!



MzMinx -> RE: Hmmmm (8/26/2008 2:32:13 AM)

hmmmm  interesting interpretation mforrt .....  I would have thought a comment saying 'Dominants should keep their dominance to those who have agreed' says  exactly the opposite ,...  its not saying that any position  should be worthy of more respect ... but that every one should be more aware and more ethical in their dealings with all

and he certainly is saying civility etc is due to everyone... not more to  M or D's  than others



Owner4SexSlave -> RE: "The Rise & Fall of the M/s Community: A Cautionary Observation" (8/26/2008 2:50:49 AM)

Mercnbeth,

Have I told you guys today how much I love you guys. :-)  You guys Rock.  Thank you for taking the time to start this thread.

Dare I admit to this, I'm a bit of an outside when it comes to MAsT and other organizations.  I have not been a conference attendee type of guy either.  I enjoyed reading this very much so, thank you again.

I'm not certain what the future holds in store for M/s community, MasterSkip addressed the fact that the M/s Community as being one of Outsiders amoung Outsiders.  Which holds so true to begin with.   I know much heated debate can be raised regarding the differences of M/s compared to D/s.   The classic debate of submissive vs. slave and many other things.

It's clear that there are different Points of Views, schools of thoughts, between many people in "the lifestyle".   In fact much of what Master Skip wrote about can be seen and examplified in countless threads on the CM message boards.  The problem is holding things together and making it work for everybody.   People will tend to push for the Dogma of more substance and meaning to what M/s is or is not.

I'm going to break trend for a moment.  Express my own thoughts and observations regarding "The Lifestyle" and D/s and M/s relationships within.  

When it comes to what "The lifestyle" or what "BDSM" actually is.  I have held the stance that it covers all things kink and the variety of relationships associated with it.   That there is room for "Dom Couples", the kinky college girl that does not want the D/s but loves being tied up and spanked.   As long as you incorperate these things into your day to day life, or so desire, want or need this as part of your life.   You are welcome to "the lifestyle".

There have been defining moments on this message board, where I was attacked for supporting a so called "Watered Down" versions of "The lifestyle".   I am not against M/s or TPE at all.  In fact, I myself have been in such a relationship before.  Ironic that I myself should come underfire for wanting to water it down somehow.

Problem number one is the lack of understanding of the many different sub-cultures within the Kink Community itself.  That everything is not about M/s.   In fact D/s or M/s are not the only type of valid relationship structures one can live day to day life by.  Now in terms of the M/s community, it's the way to go.   However, what appears to be missing are Organized Communities supporting Dom Couples and other relationship structures.   These are even valid select options for user profiles on collarme.com.  

Back when I first met the little girl I'm currently exploring things with.  She said she was looking for a Daddy/Daughter relationship.   This spoke volumes of meaning instantly.   It was just not the fact she was looking for a D/s relationship alone.  This girl knew the specific type and was able to express it using Daddy/Daughter or little girl.

This is a far cry from reading profiles by girls who want to literally be kept prisoner in room, cage or in the basement.  Actually, I believe there should be a whole "Warden/Prisoner" classification that stands on it own,  just like Daddy/Daughter (little girl) does.  

I also believe there should be no shame people not having a desire for TPE relationships.  That D/s without complete and total power does and can work between two people.   It's the fact that somebody is the majority Authority share holder of the relationship itself.   So what is a D/s relationship turns out to be something a bit like  75% to 25% ratio of authority or power.   Does everything have to be 100%?   If the relationship is rock solid at 75 to 25 pecent of Authority transfered, does it somehow make it anymore solid at a 100% authority level.  What I'm expressing, is what is realistic and what works for people having a relationship, without the pressure to achieve something that is out of reach.  Anyways what is a good label to use for D/s relationships with Total Authority is not transferred to another person?  What is the best label to slap on those who's goal is to have complete Authority Transfered?

I have always had a strong mental coupling of M/s having the goal of complete authority or power exchanged.  That a M/s relationship was a D/s relationship geared to the more extreme end of things. Call it the Edge of D/s.   That none M/s D/s relationships involved a partial transfer of authority or power.  Where the D side was the majority holder of the transfer or exchange.

I know this has caused a stir at times, when I express my own views on what the difference are between the two.  However, I believe that there needs to be some form of seperation.  M/s relationship are in fact D/s.   However not all D/s relationship are M/s.    There are many submissives that don't want to become a slave.  The same can be said for Doms.  Not every Dom wants to become a Master.

The one thing that fucks with the concept I just presenting is that some people in D/s relationships as I outlined above will refer and call one another "Master" or "slave".  Case in point where words can carry on more then one meaning.   I can honestly see where some people looking for a TPE relationship, view other people as practicing a watered down version of M/s.  One big heated misunderstanding of Word and Context they are applied in.

The misunderstanding is seen time and time again, in the heated debates about submissive vs. slave and etc.

Personally, I have a new classification in my mind now.  Submissive, slave and prisoner.

But I digress...

We have

Submissive 50's household wifes.
Submissive Pets.
Submissive Daddy Girls.
Submissive house sluts.
Submissive slaves.
Submissive Prisoners.

Mind you the context to which I am using the words as labels and not as names of Endearment.

A Submissive 50's house wife might be subject to being called pet, little girl, slut, or slave.  

Honorific Labels vs. Names of Endearment....  This fucks everybody up all the time.

This is just some of my own thoughts, as to where I see divisions that occur. 

Please forgive me, I mean nobody any offense here.  I'm expressing my own thoughts on this matter.  I do not know what the solution is regarding some of the heated debates.

I know that how I define certain things is not how others look at it as well.

It's not my intention to proclaim that I have the solution all worked out here.   I'm just expressing my own loose thoughts, observations and how I myself manage to keep things clear in my own head.



Owner4SexSlave -> RE: Hmmmm (8/26/2008 3:07:20 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: masterforRT

When I basically said the same thing a few weeks ago---I was treated uncivilly here!

The post was about how Doms should be respected for their position even though you might not respect them as persons.

Pot calling the kettle black, perhaps? I don't know...but he must have been thinking of THIS place when he wrote this.

Can this be turned around? I don't know....but a good start would be less nastiness in these very forums!


In terms of what happened a few weeks ago, I shall go back and reread the thread.  I'm supportive of the M/s community.  However I'm not supportive of the M/s community thrusting itself down the throats of other in the "BDSM lifestyle".  I do not hold the view that M/s is the be all and end all of BDSM.

With regards to respect, I hold it to human standards.  Not to some automatically given stands.  Just because somebody is a DOM or Master does not mean they have my Respect.  It is something that is earned.

The problem is such.  There are Sociopaths, Assholes, and other guys.  That well frankly I have no respect for as a human being.  If I can not respect somebody as a human being, I'm not ready to automatically give to somebody just because they say they are a DOM or Master.   Actually many submissives and slaves have been burned by DOMs or Master Demanding respect.

The problem is that too many people act like they no longer belong to the human race, just because they are in this lifestyle.

Just slapping a label upon yourself and believing you are going to some how earn extra brownie respect points from me is totally out of the question.

Just because somebody might be a Doctor, or Attorney, does not mean that they have earned extra respect brownie points from me either.

If somebody came into a room and started demanding respect from me right from the get go.  I would have an issue with it.

Basically, some guys will treat a submissive like complete shit disrepecting her, and insisting that she give them respect in return.   I really have issues with this I AM A DOM, I DEMAND respect.   It's a two way street.   Some Doms don't want to play that way.

Anybody who demands respect without giving respect is not somebody I'm going to respect regards of color, creed, orientation, religion, sex or whatever else.

I honestly have not magically back peddled on you with this one.
I assure you, I'm not turning anything around.  

However it's a complete red flag to me, when I hear a stranger bitching and demanding my respect when I have not had the chance nor opportunity to interact with them yet. 

More time then not.  I have seen and encountered people that walk around Demanding respect, are the biggest violators of not respecting others themselves. 

I hope this post helps clear up some confusion regarding my own views on this matter.



Owner4SexSlave -> RE: "The Rise & Fall of the M/s Community: A Cautionary Observation" (8/26/2008 3:22:29 AM)

When it comes to respect.  I respect the likes of

Mercnbeth, KnightsofMists, SimplyMicheal, FukinToll, Leatherist, Archer, LA, LadyPact, MaamJay, MasterFireMaam... and countless others on this website.

None of these people asked for, nor demand my respect.  None of these people in fact even bitch about nor complain about not being respected either.

I think this says a lot about peoples true self esteem levels.  I respect them for thier insight and honestly.  I respect the fact they can hold thier own weight even when underfire of opposing views or thoughts.

Some people can hold it together under the snarkest of comments and remarks too, they simply fend for themselves very fine all on their own.  They don't resort to complaining about lack of respect nor demand it.   In fact, they deserve every once of respect they recieve from other people on this message board.

Mind you, everybody should be give a certain measure of respect automatically.

I think the confusion here, is the context and meaning of the word respect at times.

I realize that misunderstanding do and can arise because words carry different meanings.   Some people are really great at their reading comprehension skills.  Some people totally suck at it as well.



janigrey -> RE: "The Rise & Fall of the M/s Community: A Cautionary Observation" (8/26/2008 4:18:51 AM)

This was a fantastic read. 

Thank you for sharing it.

And while concerned about reading something without pictures- when its well written - that isn't a problem. *smiles*


jani



Alumbrado -> RE: "The Rise & Fall of the M/s Community: A Cautionary Observation" (8/26/2008 4:44:09 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: catize

 
Show me an organization, an agency, a group that did not have rude, uncivil, back stabbing members. 
It is a powerful speech, perhaps a necessary warning, but my cynical bent leads me to believe he is ‘preaching to the choir’ and the folks it is intended for do not have ears to hear it.    


I enjoyed reading the article, and would indeed like everything to move in the direction suggested, but at the end of the day, I agree with the above comments.

As long as we are dealing with people, we are going to get the same results as any other group.



Wildfleurs -> RE: "The Rise & Fall of the M/s Community: A Cautionary Observation" (8/26/2008 4:47:04 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

LOLLLLLL

Know that the idea that Master Skip is somehow narsasistic because he has the honorific before his name is beyond silly to anyone who actually knows the man.
If someone knows Master Skip Casey for any length of time they know that he resisted the honorific for many years telling folks he didn't deserve the honorific.
He finally relented after many years comming to grips with the idea of receiving the honorific graciously from those who bear him great respect.
A man who struggles with it and then learns to graciously accept the heartfelt respect of his community is hardly naricism. Calling a man to task over something you don't know about the man is far closer to incivility than graciously after years accepting an honorific ever could be.



Ummm I didn't call anyone to task. I said that it was ironic. If you read my post, I also said that I found the speech interesting (which wasn't a hollow compliment, I actually did find it interesting).

C~



ResidentSadist -> RE: "The Rise & Fall of the M/s Community: A Cautionary Observation" (8/26/2008 5:05:20 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
I hope that others may find it as interesting as me. Its a long read, 9 pages without pictures.

Dear Merc,

Thanks for the very affirming the link. 

-Kalon Eric
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[edit: I made no further comment because I feel he really pretty much said it all.  And now we can watch the ill manners of our fellow forum members prove his points about civility.]



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