RE: "The Rise & Fall of the M/s Community: A Cautionary Observation" (Full Version)

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ExSteelAgain -> RE: "The Rise & Fall of the M/s Community: A Cautionary Observation" (8/26/2008 12:11:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists
As many know, Michael as let the boards.  He made no secret that he was wrestling with his own demons that many could label as narissistic and/or esteem issues.  However, Michaels openness of his own personal perspective was very much an exercise working throw the challenges he faced.  In short, what he shared was an exercise of humilty that served him and many of us.  I believe that Michaels efforts are an example for us in many ways.


I don't claim to be so connected that I know what's going on with all the regular posters, but it seems like I saw posts by Michael, who used to be SimplyMichael, a few days ago? I enjoyed his posts is why I noticed what you said. Did he write in some post I missed that he is leaving the boards or was this said in a different way?

Edited to add that I just got an IM with a link to his goodbye post. Too bad, I enjoyed his thoughts.  




CallaFirestormBW -> RE: "The Rise & Fall of the M/s Community: A Cautionary Observation" (8/26/2008 12:48:13 PM)

~fast reply~

Ok, this is kinda long -- the following paragraph had a profound impact on me:

quote:

I believe that comparison holds even truer for our M/s community, because unlike the “Top” and
“bottom” of an SM scene, whose energies are generally centered in the physical body, the energy
of a Master/slave relationship, because of its archetypal nature, is centered in the spiritual body.
That being the case, then as I said to those gathered at that LLC, “when spiritual teachings and
practices—and that includes SM and our M/s-D/s culture—are fashioned into a communal
doctrine , a dogma, really, pollution sets in. As the community then evolves into an institution,
whether by design or otherwise, the pollution increases, and the underlying intention of the
community’s leaders mutates from that of facilitating the awakening of the students to
maintaining the institution at all costs. When that happens, the community’s pursuit of
freedom—freedom in its most profound sense—is pushed aside by a toxic tribal dynamic of
coerced reverence, oppression of new ideas and the vilification or banishment of those who
would question either the dogma or the authority of those who created it.”


I've been exploring the relationship between BDSM and spiritual expression since I became actively involved in the community a little over a decade ago. I've been walking a path, over the past 26 years, that is so far outside the mainstream of spirituality that we have abandoned most doctrine (I can't say 'all' doctrine -- we do have aspects of our path that we hold close... but they are more 'practice' related than 'perspective/concept' related). I've seen my journey reflected in my attitudes and behaviors in the D/s community, and seen my comprehension of BDSM and D/s reflected in changes to my understanding of spiritual expression. In the process, I've become much less judgemental, I think, about other people's choices, placing my boundaries at the point at which an individual gives consent or accepts consent from another regarding any given action. In the same way, on a spiritual level, I do not find myself judgemental about how an individual recognizes and expresses hir presence and awareness of existence (hir own or the Universe's) as expressed through hir spirituality and religious choices. I've found that, for me, the flexibility of doctrine has made it possible to develop meaningful relationships with individuals whose beliefs are dichotomous to my own belief structures, made it possible for me to share concepts without inciting hostility in others or creating a hostile environment for communication, and has broadened my own experiences and understanding profoundly, since I can hear others ideas without seeing the persons or the ideas as a 'threat' to my dogma, and recognize when someone else's concept has a value that might clear a cloudy space for me, or open up an area of expression that I hadn't considered. Both my D/s life and my spiritual life have flourished.

I believe that existence is a unique experience for each person, and that this is important -- because it is this unique perspective that each of us has, even when we share experiences, that broadens the knowledge in the Universe... I cannot judge the value of someone else's experience or perspective. In the same way, no-one can judge my perspective or experience. It is completely subjective, and even when we choose to share information about how we perceive, we and our listeners are both bound by the perception of what is being shared. At the same time, while I may recognize that someone else's perceived experience (and therefore, the concepts xhe derives from that experience) cannot be -wrong-, I can also recognize that it may not be functional for -me-... that something in my own perceived experience makes that perspective ineffectual or invalid in my own life pattern. It doesn't mean that the other person is bad, wrong, or mis-informed... it just means that we're working with incompatible data sets.

I think that the biggest issue, and the greatest threat to our capacity to exist in civil cohesion comes from our need for external validation of our practices and beliefs. If we believe, within ourselves, that what we are doing is right FOR US, we don't seem to need to knock other people down in order to validate our own power. For the people who accept and embrace their own power (whether they use or yield that power), these individuals don't seem to feel the need to be rude, or crass, or judgmental. They are willing to offer knowledge where it is asked for, and they are both able and willing to accept that another's different choices do not negate their own.

Before we can lead, we must accept that we have a right to -be- leaders. That validation cannot come from outside... no matter how many people say that someone is 'good', that person is unlikely to believe it until xhe recognizes hir own worth -inside-. By the time that happens, xhe doesn't -need- people outside of hirself to validate that xhe is a 'good' person or a skilled master/dom/keeper or a quality servant -- xhe already understands hir own worth, and is comfortable and healthy in that place, regardless of what outsiders think or say.

CFB






WinsomeDefiance -> RE: "The Rise & Fall of the M/s Community: A Cautionary Observation" (8/26/2008 1:05:06 PM)

As someone who has, in the past, walked away from involvement in the BDSM "Community," I found Master Skip's address rather interesting.  Why did I walk away?  Because when I looked around, it seemed all I could see were vultures and victims - and I wanted no part of it. 

I still see vultures and victims in the BDSM public scenes, as well as references to them in the posts etc., but I see a great deal more once again.  What changed?  Certainly not humanity as a whole.  In fact, I can't really claim to believe there is anything new under the sun.  The only shift in the equation is myself, my own perceptions and my own awareness of things around me.

It would seem to me that what Master Skip was eluding to, was a desire for people to be more aware of their own actions, and how those actions impact others.  I think enlightenment happens, not when one takes notice of other's faults, but rather when one becomes aware of their own strengths and weaknesses, and how those strengths and weakness impact their environment. 

It reminds me of the 'pay it forward' way of thinking.  If Master Skip's keynote address reaches just one person, and that peron becomes more aware of their own actions, shares why with a few others and those people become more aware of their actions - who isn't to say that a single idealistic notion couldn't change the construct of a group dynamic?   Yes, it is idealistic, but it is an idealism that I could embrace.





ResidentSadist -> RE: "The Rise & Fall of the M/s Community: A Cautionary Observation" (8/26/2008 4:56:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: WinsomeDefiance
... when I looked around...

/ditto
<---fellow idealistic dreamer




KnightofMists -> RE: "The Rise & Fall of the M/s Community: A Cautionary Observation" (8/26/2008 5:23:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ExSteelAgain

Edited to add that I just got an IM with a link to his goodbye post. Too bad, I enjoyed his thoughts.  


He will be back... when it right for him to do so...




MasterFireMaam -> RE: "The Rise & Fall of the M/s Community: A Cautionary Observation" (8/26/2008 7:26:34 PM)

I'll pipe in here...

In the end, when it comes to hatred, incivility, judgment...call it whatever you will, it's all based on fear. Fear is the opposite of love (something I've heard from several places, including Master Skip). Until we are willing to look at ourselves...improve ourselves...and come to know our true Self, we will never find the love that is simply there, waiting. Until we find it, we cannot feel it for ourselves or others...and we will remain living in the fear that comes from narcissism and a lack of self-esteem.

I feel this is of what Master Skips speaks. Others that know him and know him as a 'Priest in Black Leather' as I do will probably agree.

How do we end the cycle of fear (and everything that stems from it)? Stop. Just stop. Stop hating, stop judging, stop doing anything but offering one another love, acceptance and compassion. It's that easy...and that hard. Learning how to stop is each individual's journey.

Master Fire




Leatherist -> RE: "The Rise & Fall of the M/s Community: A Cautionary Observation" (8/26/2008 9:01:17 PM)

What bothered me the most about "the scene" was the "high school with whips and chains" idiocy. I hated that shit then,and now is no different.




WhiplashSmile2 -> RE: "The Rise & Fall of the M/s Community: A Cautionary Observation" (8/27/2008 5:34:37 AM)

I was very impressed with Master Skips 9 page address.  This morning I decided to Google this guy up and see if I could find other things he has wrote.

I found this outline of Qualities of a Master.
http://www.mastertaino.com/Qualities_of_a_Master.htm

As I was going down the list, I spotted places where I myself have had stuggles.  Also, I was thinking about how many of these points become center stage to Debates and Topics people post about on the message boards here.

OK, I'm very impressed because Master Skip really appears to be with reality when it comes to D/s or M/s relationships.

I'm going to print a copy of this list out and hang it somewhere I think.










persephonee -> RE: "The Rise & Fall of the M/s Community: A Cautionary Observation" (8/27/2008 6:09:26 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

The thing that I find very sad about such an article is not that it will be taken negatively or not received at all, but it will be received in a positive way! People will read it and applaud it, say "Things need to change!", and cast an eye downwards to all "those" people who are breeding incivility, when most likely, their own behaviors contribute to the issue.

We like to fall prey to the delusion that our actions are above right and wrong. Personally, I know I can get caught up in the bullshit that is churned by social group dynamic interaction, more so on the Internet, and sadly in my realtime life as well.


~applause~




heartfeltsub -> RE: "The Rise & Fall of the M/s Community: A Cautionary Observation" (8/27/2008 6:17:42 AM)

Would love that link as well, if you have it. Thank you in advance.

heartfelt




WhiplashSmile2 -> RE: "The Rise & Fall of the M/s Community: A Cautionary Observation" (8/27/2008 7:01:50 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: heartfeltsub

Would love that link as well, if you have it. Thank you in advance.

heartfelt


I would love the link as well.




KnightofMists -> RE: "The Rise & Fall of the M/s Community: A Cautionary Observation" (8/27/2008 7:08:01 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhiplashSmile2

quote:

ORIGINAL: heartfeltsub

Would love that link as well, if you have it. Thank you in advance.

heartfelt


I would love the link as well.


would this be the link you mean?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_2082728/tm.htm




heartfeltsub -> RE: "The Rise & Fall of the M/s Community: A Cautionary Observation" (8/27/2008 7:22:29 AM)

Thank You.




Bethnai -> RE: "The Rise & Fall of the M/s Community: A Cautionary Observation" (8/27/2008 10:09:55 AM)

I have never heard of him. That was very interesting. What should the core values be then?




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