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Defining what exactly is a "Pro Domme" - 8/27/2008 1:48:53 PM   
goddessAVA


Posts: 221
Joined: 11/2/2006
Status: offline 		Reputible anyway........Yes this is an ugly can of worms I want to open.......I'm crabby and not feeling well so I swooped in on my broom and read the money threads and was VERY annoyed by all the misconceptions regarding this subject. 
I'm constantly dismayed by eager niave' newbie submissives that post OVER and OVER on this same subject, there seems to be lots of confusion and the Queen is here to help (JUST KIDDING ON THE QUEEN PART!).  Top Professionals advertise on very well known venues, none of which are lifestyle sites, they do not ask for deposits unless they are traveling or think you are a total flake.  In my experience we chat and warn each other about bad clients and are very aware of each other's existence and reputations.  Many of us DO cater to specific fetish/fantasies, craft sessions based on mutual interests and offer complete discretion and lack of emotional demands after the session ends-SO WHAT!  You will almost always see us in some kind of expensive fetishwear in a dungeon atmosphere and can find copius reviews of what we are like in session at the usual places.  The clients we see can be lifestyle switches who do not want people to know their subside, married or non-married men who want to scratch an itch but not have it take over their lives and newbies who just want to see if they like it.  There is a tremendous responsibility on us to provide a safe clean secret playtime.  The Pros in it just for the money usually do not last very long-make of that what you will.
We might meet before a session but that is not standard practice and you will have to jump through many hoops to get an appointment if you are not contacting a commercial dungeon.  SOOOOOOOO when the impossibly 18-to 20year old in the pic with a bikini asks for money, it is most likely a scam and NOT a pro, likewise if they seem real but are not on the major sites and ask for money-YOU ARE MOST LIKELY BEING SCAMMED!  Btw, my collared slave never gave me any money when we met-I like to keep the personal and professional seperate.

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RE: Defining what exactly is a "Pro Domme" - 8/27/2008 4:08:28 PM   
softpjOS


Posts: 398
Joined: 6/7/2005
Status: offline 		Personally, i find nothing wrong with Professionals providing they are upfront about it.  Far too often one finds out that the Dommes they are talking to is strictly in it to scam subs out of money.  And i believe that is where the majority of the complaints come from. 
 
Do i believe Professionals are truly prostitutes? Only if they engage in sex with their client.  The debate over what constitues *sex* tends to get ugly, and as such, i'm not going *there* today. lol  I will say i believe there can be a very fine line between some activities in a  scene and sex. 
 
Honesty goes a long way, and i have much more respect for those standing up and saying "this is what I do" as opposed to those who jump up and down screaming " well You shouldn't!" 
 
Not everyone is going to agree on the subject, not everyone is going to accept it and they don't have to.  I can see both sides of the coin and agree with points each side makes.  Just because I'm not in total agreement, doesn't make either side *wrong*.   
 
As in any other profession/service situation, there are those who genuinely wish to provide a service and those who simply want to make a fast buck.  I'd say those who are seriously considering seeing a Professional, need to take the time and effort to check the reputation and references; otherwise don't complain about being scammed. 
 
To each their own.  In my opinion, the moral majority often jumps up and down over issues but rarely have other solutions to offer. 
 
just my 2 cents
 
pj
 
 

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RE: Defining what exactly is a "Pro Domme" - 8/27/2008 4:17:16 PM   
goddessAVA


Posts: 221
Joined: 11/2/2006
Status: offline 		EXACTLY!!!!!!! that is all I'm trying to educate people about........the lack of the complaining male subs who whine about money requirements responding to a rational analysis speaks VOLUMES about their intentions.  Thanks for responding to my thread.

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RE: Defining what exactly is a "Pro Domme" - 8/27/2008 5:03:57 PM   
pinnipedster


Posts: 217
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Status: offline 		My only real complaint about Pro Dommes is simply that I can't afford them....

(And that is a complaint about my own finances, not about the prices they charge.  Sure, it may seem expensive, but when you consider their expenses, and the creative time and energy a good dominant can put into a scene, the rates don't really seem unfair to me.  It's just that I don't have hundreds of dollars to spend for a few hours pleasure -- also, given my tastes, an hour or two frequently would be nowhere near enough.)

I think the profesional dominant fills a very valuable role, in catering to specific fetishes that customers might otherwise find great difficulty in having fulfilled, and in not requring a commitment (beyond the actual money) for men who can have their needs met by an occasional session, but for various reasons cannot get into a committed D/s relationship.  I have some qualms about men (or women) who might patronize a pro without informing their own spouse or relationship partner, but that's their issue, not that of the pro domme.  Also, let's face it, since it's part of their living, professional dominants often can afford to invest in some really cool toys. :)

I don't think a professional dominant, even if I could afford to visit reasonably often, would fulfill all my own needs and/or wants.  On the other hand, I can definitely imaging patronizing one, specifically to have a play session that catered directly to my fantasies (as a paying customer), or involved some kind of equipment or situation that was otherwise hard to replicate.  

The only other issue was raised at a munch I was at -- a guy was griping that the demand in California for pros is so high that any woman who is at all good at it can make a good living as a pro, which (according to him) had an adverse effect on the supply of lifestyle/non-pro dominants.  I don't know if that's really true.

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RE: Defining what exactly is a "Pro Domme" - 8/27/2008 6:07:46 PM   
RedMagic1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pinnipedster
a guy was griping that the demand in California for pros is so high that any woman who is at all good at it can make a good living as a pro, which (according to him) had an adverse effect on the supply of lifestyle/non-pro dominants.  I don't know if that's really true.

It's bogus.  Prodommes date, and have lives.  See the last sentence of the OP of this thread for an example.  Personally, I can report that the woman I'm spending a lot of time with right now was a prodomme for a while.

< Message edited by RedMagic1 -- 8/27/2008 6:11:24 PM >

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RE: Defining what exactly is a "Pro Domme" - 8/27/2008 6:14:59 PM   
AAkasha


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pinnipedster

My only real complaint about Pro Dommes is simply that I can't afford them....

(And that is a complaint about my own finances, not about the prices they charge.  Sure, it may seem expensive, but when you consider their expenses, and the creative time and energy a good dominant can put into a scene, the rates don't really seem unfair to me.  It's just that I don't have hundreds of dollars to spend for a few hours pleasure -- also, given my tastes, an hour or two frequently would be nowhere near enough.)

I think the profesional dominant fills a very valuable role, in catering to specific fetishes that customers might otherwise find great difficulty in having fulfilled, and in not requring a commitment (beyond the actual money) for men who can have their needs met by an occasional session, but for various reasons cannot get into a committed D/s relationship.  I have some qualms about men (or women) who might patronize a pro without informing their own spouse or relationship partner, but that's their issue, not that of the pro domme.  Also, let's face it, since it's part of their living, professional dominants often can afford to invest in some really cool toys. :)

I don't think a professional dominant, even if I could afford to visit reasonably often, would fulfill all my own needs and/or wants.  On the other hand, I can definitely imaging patronizing one, specifically to have a play session that catered directly to my fantasies (as a paying customer), or involved some kind of equipment or situation that was otherwise hard to replicate.  

The only other issue was raised at a munch I was at -- a guy was griping that the demand in California for pros is so high that any woman who is at all good at it can make a good living as a pro, which (according to him) had an adverse effect on the supply of lifestyle/non-pro dominants.  I don't know if that's really true.



As a career woman who has done the math, that's just not true.  I think I could have a pretty good clientele and live near a good bdsm market. There's no way I could make a living as close to the one I have now with my degree and normal job.  Guys just take the pro domme rate per hour, multiply by 40 hrs a week (or THIRTY, and then they feel they're being generous with the numbers) and come up with some crazy annual salary.  Not taking into consideration no shows, how many sessions a day can be done, vacations, sick days, equipment, lawyer, medical, marketing and advertising, etc.  And, the reality that it's clearly a job with a lifespan for most pros - you don't see many women working 30+ years and retiring a pro. The burnout rate is high and a woman's packaging and "look" also has a lifespan, like it or not.

I considered for a short (very short) period of time going into pro domming for a little break from corporate hell when I was in my mid 20s and suffernig burnout from the entire rat race.  I am so glad I didn't pause my career and take the detour. 

Akasha


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RE: Defining what exactly is a "Pro Domme" - 8/27/2008 6:19:54 PM   
goddessAVA


Posts: 221
Joined: 11/2/2006
Status: offline 		yes we do and for the record I have heard ca is a tough market for pro's-note the lack of traveling pro's out there......anyway the point is the no-names asking for $$$$$ ARE FAKES AND IT'S PRETTY OBVIOUS!!!  The problem is wishful thinkers-I'm just trying to clue them in.  Thanks for your thoughtful reply I wish the trolls who start the money threads would chime in.

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RE: Defining what exactly is a "Pro Domme" - 8/27/2008 6:35:35 PM   
goddessAVA


Posts: 221
Joined: 11/2/2006
Status: offline 		yes you are on to the answer-we do have personal lives that involve bdsm, I am here for that reason alone; trying to give sub males a clue-if you can't find the Domme anywhere else well.......you make the judment........my gothicbisub was found right here but his life is no fantasy.....I'm a very hard demanding sadistic mistress

< Message edited by goddessAVA -- 8/27/2008 6:36:45 PM >

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RE: Defining what exactly is a "Pro Domme" - 8/27/2008 8:02:38 PM   
TermsConditions


Posts: 446
Joined: 11/13/2007
Status: offline 		I am definitely pro-Domme.

Yay Dommes! Go Dommes! Wooo Hooo.

The more Dommes the better, I say.

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RE: Defining what exactly is a "Pro Domme" - 8/27/2008 9:21:22 PM   
Paulnz


Posts: 411
Status: offline 		When I talk to anyone thinking of going pro I remind them of the need to take the Prostitution Reform Act into account:-

http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2003/0028/latest/DLM197822.html


commercial sexual services means sexual services that—


  • (a) involve physical participation by a person in sexual acts with, and for the gratification of, another person; and


  • (b) are provided for payment or other reward (irrespective of whether the reward is given to the person providing the services or another person)
    Then I get ready to have the long argument about whether what they plan on doing is Prostitution or not.
     

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    RE: Defining what exactly is a "Pro Domme" - 8/27/2008 9:22:15 PM   
    ineedotk


    Posts: 109
    Joined: 8/17/2006
    Status: offline     		Thanks so much for all the advice about scammers.  I was not aware of this.

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    RE: Defining what exactly is a "Pro Domme" - 8/27/2008 9:33:38 PM   
    Paulnz


    Posts: 411
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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: AAkasha

    And, the reality that it's clearly a job with a lifespan for most pros - you don't see many women working 30+ years and retiring a pro. The burnout rate is high and a woman's packaging and "look" also has a lifespan, like it or not.





    Not necessarily so. A good pro-domme can work that long and retire. It is a skill not entirely based on looks or age.


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    RE: Defining what exactly is a "Pro Domme" - 8/27/2008 10:11:47 PM   
    LadySunn


    Posts: 102
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    Status: offline     		I'm a brand spanking new Pro-Domina, as of 3days ago. The going rates are good here in Atlanta GA. I signed on with a group so that I can learn the legal do's and don'ts.  My employment background is 7 years in corporate america.  I have been a lifestyle Domina for years.  I agree that being up front is important.

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    RE: Defining what exactly is a "Pro Domme" - 8/27/2008 10:30:52 PM   
    Lynnxz


    Posts: 4813
    Joined: 10/3/2006
    From: Atlanta
    Status: offline     		LadySun, there's supposed to be a kind of info session/class thing for Prodommes, etc in Atlanta, at Domcon in October- you should check it out. I'm trying to go, but haven't gotten any confirmation back from them.

    As far as being a pro-anything as a career, I don't think I could do it. I'm not that much of a people person... so I'm just doing it while I'm in school.

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    RE: Defining what exactly is a "Pro Domme" - 8/27/2008 11:25:22 PM   
    MamaDomme1


    Posts: 377
    Joined: 1/12/2008
    Status: offline     		~~FR~~

    I was a Pro for many years... burnout and a Katrina hit pretty much took it all out of me.  Don't get me wrong-- I love the activities, but no longer wish to provide services at a whim for someone else.  It would cost way too much to try to begin replacing all the equipment, clothing and other supplies that I lost literally overnight, and I just don't have the heart for it anymore I suppose.

    Nowdays, I think I just want to find me a lovely pet slave and sit back and watch the sunsets.

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    RE: Defining what exactly is a "Pro Domme" - 8/28/2008 1:04:37 AM   
    Paulnz


    Posts: 411
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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: LadySunn

    I'm a brand spanking new Pro-Domina, as of 3days ago. The going rates are good here in Atlanta GA. I signed on with a group so that I can learn the legal do's and don'ts.  My employment background is 7 years in corporate america.  I have been a lifestyle Domina for years.  I agree that being up front is important.


    I hope your business prospers. From what I know having talked to pro-dommes in the USA, it is important to know the difference between what constitutes a misdemeanour and felony. Just saying.

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    RE: Defining what exactly is a "Pro Domme" - 8/28/2008 8:03:19 AM   
    MsIncontrol


    Posts: 261
    Joined: 10/3/2007
    Status: offline     		Thank you Ava for this post.  I am very much a big fan of Professional Dommes.  But the key word is Professional.  I have several friends here locally that I recommend on a regular basis.  You provide a service that is valuable and necessary for many.  If someone can't clearly see the difference between a professional with a dungeon, advertisements and references and a scammer...they have bigger problems..than losing a few hundred bucks.

    The problem most men have is accepting the fact that some of them have no other options than to pay for their needs to be met.  Either they are married, need a lot of discretion, are the "do me" types or socially inept....most men who fall into the latter categories are the ones who have the most difficult time accepting that they have to pay for something that many men get for free.

    Whether or not what you do is prostitution is based entirely on your practices and the laws of your state.   It is a risk you take as a sex worker...or someone who is providing a service that is deemed sexual.  Just as the risk you take for assaulting someone in other states.  In our state (OH) the laws are more strict on not being able to consent to assault than they are on what constitutes prostitution...strangely enough....you are more likely to be arrested for assault & battery than pandering.

    Thank you for your well written post and making a clear definition between a professional and a money grubbing poser.  You don't always get what you pay for.

    Men, remember that if there wasn't a demand for these services, there would be no supply.  So, the bottom line is..do your research....don't give money blindly...and if no one wants to play with you for free...find a good reputable professional.

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    RE: Defining what exactly is a "Pro Domme" - 8/28/2008 10:56:35 AM   
    Coupleofwhats


    Posts: 280
    Joined: 6/4/2008
    Status: offline     		I think the problem is that a lot of men don't differentiate between the different levels and niches of the sex industry.

    If I see a pretty girl in a bikini advertising professional domination, I don't expect much: judging by the presentation, she's not very interested in kink on its own, or in taking it seriously as a business. Plenty of men just see hot-chick-in-bikini-where's-my-wallet? Then they get burned by a not-so-serious domme who wants to be paid, and they tar the whole lot of professional dominants with the same brush.

    And really, where is all this easy money that I hear is supposed to come out of Pro Domination? I've WORKED for all mine.

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    RE: Defining what exactly is a "Pro Domme" - 8/28/2008 11:26:25 AM   
    pinnipedster


    Posts: 217
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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: MsIncontrol  In our state (OH) the laws are more strict on not being able to consent to assault than they are on what constitutes prostitution...strangely enough....you are more likely to be arrested for assault & battery than pandering.


    I always wonder how they rationalize football games under these laws, let alone boxing matches....

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    RE: Defining what exactly is a "Pro Domme" - 8/28/2008 12:27:50 PM   
    MistressRouge


    Posts: 876
    Joined: 3/18/2005
    From: Birmingham West Midlands UK
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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Paulnz

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: AAkasha

    And, the reality that it's clearly a job with a lifespan for most pros - you don't see many women working 30+ years and retiring a pro. The burnout rate is high and a woman's packaging and "look" also has a lifespan, like it or not.





    Not necessarily so. A good pro-domme can work that long and retire. It is a skill not entirely based on looks or age.




    I agree Paulnz :)

    A reputable Pro-Domme (mid fifties) I know personally, is retiring at the end of the year. Some of her clientele, have sessioned with her for 25 years, so as the Domme ages, so do her subs/clients lol.

    A Domme is in her mid forties, early fifties is in her prime, I have so many more decades to look forward to

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