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RE: Obama's speech. - 8/29/2008 1:30:18 AM   
Celeres


Posts: 166
Joined: 3/9/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

The reason I don't like Obama is because he's too much of a Leftist weenie.
If we caught Bin Laden alive Obama would want to give him a "trial!"
And he'd make sure he had a muslim bible in his jail cell!
McCain would attach a chain around Bin Laden's neck attached to a 200 pound block and give him a kick and push him right into the pit at "Alligator Adventure."


Haha, gotta love Street Justice... "a nation of thugs" is what we will become.

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Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Obama's speech. - 8/29/2008 1:33:04 AM   
MatureDSinNY


Posts: 11
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline 		Seems many people keep asking "how"?  How will he do this or that...?  How will he create these programs and pay for them...?  How will he cut taxes and for who...?  How will he provide health care coverage for all Americans?  The same is true for Obama and McCain.  I ask how can you expect a politician to lay out all the details in a speech?  If he chose just one topic - say health care - and explained in detail how he would accomplish his goal it would be a snooze fest.  Speeches like these are meant to inspire...  When JFK said we would put a man on the moon by the end of the decade he did not go on to explain the costs, how NASA would build the rockets...  It was to inspire Americans to think big.  To remember we can accomplish anything we set our minds to and come together to accomplish! 

Honestly if you want to know the details on anything Obama or McCain are proposing there are volumes of policy papers you can read.  Go to their web sites and read the details...  Do a little work...  Don't expect them to explain it all in a sound bite, a 30 second commercial or even a 40 minute speech. 

But then my guess is most people will not do that work.  They will not take their responsibility as citizens to make an informed decision if they have to read a policy paper to get the facts.  Hell, most will not even be moved to vote! 


(in reply to meatcleaver)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Obama's speech. - 8/29/2008 1:37:48 AM   
Celeres


Posts: 166
Joined: 3/9/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MatureDSinNY

Seems many people keep asking "how"?  How will he do this or that...?  How will he create these programs and pay for them...?  How will he cut taxes and for who...?  How will he provide health care coverage for all Americans?  The same is true for Obama and McCain.  I ask how can you expect a politician to lay out all the details in a speech?  If he chose just one topic - say health care - and explained in detail how he would accomplish his goal it would be a snooze fest.  Speeches like these are meant to inspire...  When JFK said we would put a man on the moon by the end of the decade he did not go on to explain the costs, how NASA would build the rockets...  It was to inspire Americans to think big.  To remember we can accomplish anything we set our minds to and come together to accomplish! 

Honestly if you want to know the details on anything Obama or McCain are proposing there are volumes of policy papers you can read.  Go to their web sites and read the details...  Do a little work...  Don't expect them to explain it all in a sound bite, a 30 second commercial or even a 40 minute speech. 

But then my guess is most people will not do that work.  They will not take their responsibility as citizens to make an informed decision if they have to read a policy paper to get the facts.  Hell, most will not even be moved to vote! 




One should also mention that no one at the time of JFK even knew what space was like or how far the moon was. =) I agree that a lot of Americans, when they saw that CBS, ABC, CNN, etc were showing the DNC or even the GOP next week, they'd rather switch to MTV or VH1. Not all, but a good many.

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Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Obama's speech. - 8/29/2008 3:07:05 AM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

You're a joker popeye, the Republicans have had seven years to capture Bin Laden and spent most of that time fighting the wrong war.

Why does everyone assume that capturing Bin Laden is a good idea?

Which is more dangerous?  Bin Laden the Martyr or Bin Laden the Cave Dweller?




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RE: Obama's speech. - 8/29/2008 3:41:35 AM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

You're a joker popeye, the Republicans have had seven years to capture Bin Laden and spent most of that time fighting the wrong war.

Why does everyone assume that capturing Bin Laden is a good idea?

Which is more dangerous?  Bin Laden the Martyr or Bin Laden the Cave Dweller?





Wasn't it Bush who said he was going to get Bin Laden so you would be better asking him and you could ask him what Iraq had to do with the 'war on terror'.

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 8/29/2008 3:42:01 AM >

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RE: Obama's speech. - 8/29/2008 3:47:38 AM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
Status: offline 		I am very well aware of what Bush said.  I am not making inquiry about what Bush said.  I am making a general inquiry about why capturing Bin Laden is good strategy for the war on terror.

Personally, I rather like the idea of Bin Laden hiding out in a cave far removed from everything.  He should not be captured, and if he is killed it should be done with zero fanfare and media attention.  The worst outcome for Bin Laden is to just fade away.


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Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Obama's speech. - 8/29/2008 4:54:34 AM   
BIllCT


Posts: 160
Joined: 9/14/2004
Status: offline 		Obama is agreat orator only period. His speech was a contridiction in and of itself . But, I think in the end the democrats made one hell of a mistake which means we may get stuck withy McCain for 4 years next.
Obama has no susbstance to what he says or how he will do anything. Find me substanc e in how he will get us Health Care, How will he save Social Securitya nd Medicare how is he gonna get the money fo rthese things and isn't he reaching too far without giving the american public a firm answer to any of these questions?
I also don't like the fact he disrespected the Clinton Legacy, The clintons and Hillary period. He didn't even talke dto her about the VP position or vet her. Then He picks Joe Biden as his running mate, I think that blew the whole election for him there.
His Speech of acceptance was nice it wa snot great, it mad epromises but contridicted itself and in the end gave people some hope but no substance at all on how he will do these things. Did you also notice no mention of the enviroment or global warming, no answer  where the cash will come from for his programs means we will have to pay to straighten out the last 8 years of Bush.


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Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Obama's speech. - 8/29/2008 5:21:03 AM   
Aneirin


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Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		I caught Obama's speech and what struck me when listening to it, was our news caster saying history has been made, the first African American candidate for the U.S. presidency. True you have come so far, it is excellent to see that colour is no longer the issue of so many.

Other than that, his promise to cut taxes for the 95% and by ten years time not be reliant on the middle east for oil, that I want to see, and wish him the best of luck in achieving his aim.

Perhaps a step in the right direction ?


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Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Obama's speech. - 8/29/2008 5:22:32 AM   
bipolarber


Posts: 2792
Joined: 9/25/2004
Status: offline 		Considering that prisoners in US jails can run crime operations from their cells, issuing coded orders via letters and phone calls, I think OBL would be able to do far, far worse from his cave, equipped with a satillite phone and a kidney dialisys machine.

You're talking utter bullshit, CL.

The worst thing we could do is let the evil bastard live, and become a rallying symbol for the vast numbers of new AQ recruits that Bush has created in Iraq.

Oh, and I loved the speech. At one point, it seemed almost like he was channeling rev. MLK.

I'm sure McCain, taking a cue from Communist China's olympics coverage,  is already directing his TV crew to use special effects to make the crowd at whatever ice rink they'll be holding "Fascist Fest" at, to make it look like the crowds are even halfway the size of the Denver Satdium... Maybe After Effects has a "political fervor" application? They can actually dial up enthusiasam using canned crowd noises, and some green screen to drop a few ethnic faces into the all white crowd.

(in reply to BIllCT)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Obama's speech. - 8/29/2008 5:24:30 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		You cannot repair eight years of catastrophic policies if you're not at the center of the decision making: Obama probably fully realises that concrete answers to the problems that plague this country will come with action. It's easy to demand an ultra detailed plan: it's not always possible to provide one. A presidential campaign is mostly about PR, and that goes for all the candidates. That's the way the system works: it's a popularity contest, just like in high school (and that's the indictement of the American political system), and people are literally 'falling in love' with Obama's personality and charism, and I think it's fantastic.

As for those who don't... well, they can go to bed with Emperor Palpatine :-) .

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RE: Obama's speech. - 8/29/2008 5:46:39 AM   
caitlyn


Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline 		Have you considered that those wanting to see a more detailed plan ... not ultra detailed, but a good general framework would be nice ... are the same folks that would like to get away from the popularity contest of our current system?

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RE: Obama's speech. - 8/29/2008 5:53:02 AM   
Sanity


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Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
Yeah, okay, for some all it takes to make a sell is some slick (shiny! shiny!) packaging.

Others can be more demanding...

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

You cannot repair eight years of catastrophic policies if you're not at the center of the decision making: Obama probably fully realises that concrete answers to the problems that plague this country will come with action. It's easy to demand an ultra detailed plan: it's not always possible to provide one. A presidential campaign is mostly about PR, and that goes for all the candidates. That's the way the system works: it's a popularity contest, just like in high school (and that's the indictement of the American political system), and people are literally 'falling in love' with Obama's personality and charism, and I think it's fantastic.

As for those who don't... well, they can go to bed with Emperor Palpatine :-) .


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Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Obama's speech. - 8/29/2008 6:01:25 AM   
Hippiekinkster


Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

The reason I don't like Obama is because he's too much of a Leftist weenie.
If we caught Bin Laden alive Obama would want to give him a "trial!"
And he'd make sure he had a muslim bible in his jail cell!
McCain would attach a chain around Bin Laden's neck attached to a 200 pound block and give him a kick and push him right into the pit at "Alligator Adventure."


You're a joker popeye, the Republicans have had seven years to capture Bin Laden and spent most of that time fighting the wrong war.
Yep, the Repubs have demonstrated their complete impotence regarding capturing OBL. No amount of Viagra will help those limp dicks.





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Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Obama's speech./ - 8/29/2008 6:06:37 AM   
BIllCT


Posts: 160
Joined: 9/14/2004
Status: offline 		Many say well you can't ask for concrete solutions to the problems this country is now having between two wars, the economy, jobs, health care and more. But you can and should if Hillary could stand befor ethe America Public and tell you how she will pay for health care and more so should Obama.

I think many here are forgetting something vital about the next 70 or so many days, it is not the democrats or the republicans who wil decide who the next President is or what way this country goes but the Independents in overwhelming numbers like me. And as it goes right now the candidate who come sup with concrete solutions to the problems facing us and can explain how he will pay for them will get my vote. Not just Obama cause he is smart, and good looking and African American, or anything else, McCain because he was a POW and has Sentate experience. The truth be told you want the White House an dThe Position they should tell the truth, and come up with the solutions and give concrete ones. Other wise come November, many democrats will sit out, many independents will vote McCain and Obama/ Biden will just be another page in the history books, 90 thousand people at a rally or not.

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Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Obama's speech. - 8/29/2008 6:07:21 AM   
Hippiekinkster


Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

I am very well aware of what Bush said.  I am not making inquiry about what Bush said.  I am making a general inquiry about why capturing Bin Laden is good strategy for the war on terror.

Personally, I rather like the idea of Bin Laden hiding out in a cave far removed from everything.  He should not be captured, and if he is killed it should be done with zero fanfare and media attention.  The worst outcome for Bin Laden is to just fade away.

Letting OBL "fade away" sends the message to any terrorist who pays attention to such things that one can attack the US with impunity, stir up a hornet's nest, and watch the Americans go batshit running around looking for targets.

Killing him makes him the most popular hero/martyr in the Islamic headcase world.

Capturing him sends a powerful message that there is absolutely no place on this planet for them to hide. Nowhere. 

< Message edited by Hippiekinkster -- 8/29/2008 6:09:28 AM >

_____________________________

"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

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Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Obama's speech. - 8/29/2008 6:37:47 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		For all the clamouring that there aren't any details, I disagree: I thought his outline was specific enough. What did you expect? A five hour long detailed presentation of every single thing that four years of presidency will bring?

This was a nomination acceptance speech that advocated the need for national unity and cohesion in the country's effort to get out of this disgusting mess. He ralied everybody, and it was well done. You can only pack so much in forty minutes and the electorate is supposed to do a little bit of homework too.

As you know, I am not American, yet this speech made me feel optimistic towards a future that has seemed increasingly bleak. As for my husband, he is fiercely independent, and he was moved too. That's telling, as far as I'm concerned  .

The political debate in this country is skewed. You can work towards reforming it. But if you didn't like the speech, you should address your grievance to the executives of the Democratic party.

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RE: Obama's speech. - 8/29/2008 6:38:58 AM   
SummerWind


Posts: 314
Joined: 7/4/2007
Status: offline 		Free health care, more jobs, higher wages, more money for school............. blah, blah..........while cutting taxes for 95% of us?

Mostly.......I'm fascinating by the sheep who fall for this crap every four years.......


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RE: Obama's speech. - 8/29/2008 6:41:09 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SummerWind

Mostly.......I'm fascinating by the sheep who fall for this crap every four years.......



Count me out  . I've only fallen for it once: this year  .

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Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Obama's speech. - 8/29/2008 7:10:01 AM   
RealityLicks


Posts: 1615
Joined: 10/23/2007
Status: offline 		On first hearing, he seems to be implying that he will fund tax cuts by curbing allowances to corporations.  There was some mention of tightening loopholes for firms who move jobs overseas.  He also suggested that government programmes which don't deliver will be curtailed.  Within the context of US finance, I have no idea whether this will fund his proposed changes but then, I have no idea how high the tax cuts he's promising will be.  He did indicate that all this would take place over ten years though, which gives him plenty of room to manouevre.

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Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Obama's speech. - 8/29/2008 7:19:28 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

I am very well aware of what Bush said.  I am not making inquiry about what Bush said.  I am making a general inquiry about why capturing Bin Laden is good strategy for the war on terror.

Personally, I rather like the idea of Bin Laden hiding out in a cave far removed from everything.  He should not be captured, and if he is killed it should be done with zero fanfare and media attention.  The worst outcome for Bin Laden is to just fade away.



Lol ,..

Yup.



Neo-con logic says that letting obl get away with murder is not failure,but rather a brilliant strategy.



Yup.lol


You`ve been asked to axplain this "logic" and square it with reality.


Here`s another chance.


WTF are talking about?!?!???

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Profile   Post #: 60
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