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RE: Obama's speech. - 8/29/2008 7:21:57 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		Independently from Obama's speech, I loved this line from this ordinary guy from Indiana, Barney Smith: "We need to put Barney Smith before Smith Barney." It pretty much says it all.

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RE: Obama's speech. - 8/29/2008 7:26:57 AM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
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quote:

Senator Obama is a very good speaker, no doubt. I would be willing to drink the kool-aide if he would take one of the many things he has promissed to do, and explain how he intends to make it reality. He can even pick the promise.

Then again, I did have my tires checked and one needed a little air, and gas prices have been dropping ever since.


Politicians don't get elected stumping for realism. I often wonder if we could improve our political process by devising a system of political measure-ables against which those in public office could be graded. Then political salesmanship could be juxtaposed against a third-party accounting system.


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Profile   Post #: 62
RE: Obama's speech. - 8/29/2008 7:29:38 AM   
RacerJim


Posts: 1583
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Obama's speech?  Sameo, sameo....
"All show and no substance."
"All that glitters is not gold."
"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."
"You can fool some of the people some of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time."

MLK redeux? No way, no shape, no form.

NObama.


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Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Obama's speech. - 8/29/2008 7:32:01 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RacerJim

MLK redeux? No way, no shape, no form.



Can you explain the above?

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RE: Obama's speech. - 8/29/2008 7:42:56 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		Explain?




Shallow insults with no substance.

Whinny complainy frustration and blather.

Real jealousy and envy,hidden by cliche.

A feeling of dread that one day,busshies will be eating crow seasoned with middle eastern sand. 

It`s not easy to cope with carrying a basket of dog poop on your shoulder.

Folks should have pity and not hold their lack of control against neo-cons.

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 8/29/2008 7:46:50 AM >

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"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

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RE: Obama's speech. - 8/29/2008 7:55:16 AM   
gina0055


Posts: 111
Joined: 11/17/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RacerJim

Obama's speech?  Sameo, sameo....
"All show and no substance."
"All that glitters is not gold."
"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."
"You can fool some of the people some of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time."

MLK redeux? No way, no shape, no form.

NObama.




I love the smell of fear in the morning.
 
OBAMA 08

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Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Obama's speech. - 8/29/2008 8:05:11 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: gina0055

I love the smell of fear in the morning.
 
OBAMA 08



:-)

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RE: Obama's speech. - 8/29/2008 8:13:07 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: gina0055

I love the smell of fear in the morning.
 
OBAMA 08



:-)





_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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RE: Obama's speech. - 8/29/2008 8:19:37 AM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster
]Letting OBL "fade away" sends the message to any terrorist who pays attention to such things that one can attack the US with impunity, stir up a hornet's nest, and watch the Americans go batshit running around looking for targets.

Killing him makes him the most popular hero/martyr in the Islamic headcase world.

Capturing him sends a powerful message that there is absolutely no place on this planet for them to hide. Nowhere.

Two questions:

1. If Al Qaieda is undiminished, where the hell are they?

2. Once you capture bin Laden, what do you propose to do with him? A show trial where he can preach more hatred to the world? Imprisonment without trial--and when you do imprison him, how do you keep him from becoming a living martyr, a la Nelson Mandela?

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RE: Obama's speech. - 8/29/2008 8:23:21 AM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

You're a joker popeye, the Republicans have had seven years to capture Bin Laden and spent most of that time fighting the wrong war.

Why does everyone assume that capturing Bin Laden is a good idea?

Which is more dangerous?  Bin Laden the Martyr or Bin Laden the Cave Dweller?





Uh?  Justice?

So do you not think Al-Quaida is more emboldened by our impotent attempts to capture him? 

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RE: Obama's speech. - 8/29/2008 8:28:10 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster
]Letting OBL "fade away" sends the message to any terrorist who pays attention to such things that one can attack the US with impunity, stir up a hornet's nest, and watch the Americans go batshit running around looking for targets.

Killing him makes him the most popular hero/martyr in the Islamic headcase world.

Capturing him sends a powerful message that there is absolutely no place on this planet for them to hide. Nowhere.

Two questions:

1. If Al Qaieda is undiminished, where the hell are they?

2. Once you capture bin Laden, what do you propose to do with him? A show trial where he can preach more hatred to the world? Imprisonment without trial--and when you do imprison him, how do you keep him from becoming a living martyr, a la Nelson Mandela?



Ummmmm Mandela was a national hero.Ummmm ,obl was behind 9/11.

Just to bring you up to speed.

I said "square with reality",not repeat your strange theory.

After what you said,I think it`s up to you to convince folks and explain it in terms people can understand.

Most people I know think justice delayed is justice denied.

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

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RE: Obama's speech. - 8/29/2008 8:34:28 AM   
subtee


Posts: 5133
Joined: 7/26/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster
]Letting OBL "fade away" sends the message to any terrorist who pays attention to such things that one can attack the US with impunity, stir up a hornet's nest, and watch the Americans go batshit running around looking for targets.

Killing him makes him the most popular hero/martyr in the Islamic headcase world.

Capturing him sends a powerful message that there is absolutely no place on this planet for them to hide. Nowhere.

Two questions:

1. If Al Qaieda is undiminished, where the hell are they?

2. Once you capture bin Laden, what do you propose to do with him? A show trial where he can preach more hatred to the world? Imprisonment without trial--and when you do imprison him, how do you keep him from becoming a living martyr, a la Nelson Mandela?


General Praeus interview with Newsweek:

Al Qaeda's top leadership has turned its attention to Pakistan and Afghanistan. Why then don't we just say it?: Al Qaeda in Iraq has been defeated.

"You won't find a single military leader in this theater who will say that," says Petraeus.


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Don't believe everything you think...

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RE: Obama's speech. - 8/29/2008 8:45:46 AM   
rulemylife


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Joined: 8/23/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

Have you considered that those wanting to see a more detailed plan ... not ultra detailed, but a good general framework would be nice ... are the same folks that would like to get away from the popularity contest of our current system?


Maybe it's the folks like you who make it a popularity contest.  It's not hard to find the answers to the questions that have been raised here, but you're not going to find them listening to one or two speeches and a few sound-bites on your evening news. 

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RE: Obama's speech. - 8/29/2008 8:55:49 AM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59
Ummmmm Mandela was a national hero.Ummmm ,obl was behind 9/11.

Ummmm.....Osama bin Laden is a hero to the purveyors of radical fundamentalist Islam--who have shown more than ample willingness to kill and die for their beliefs. What we think of him is immaterial--what has relevance is what his followers think of him. To the South African government, Nelson Mandela was a terrorist, and we would do well to remember that: the cliche that "one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter" holds true even for bin Laden.

As for justice:

The goal of every terrorist is to draw the eyes of the world upon himself. The terrorist wins when everything people do they do looking around for warning signs of the next terrorist attack. The terrorist wins when we make him relevant. The terrorist loses when we make him irrelevant.

Bin Laden behind bars is bin Laden forever at center stage. Bin Laden killed in a hail of gunfire is a martyr to Islam and a hero on a par with Saladin. Both outcomes are bin Laden victorious.

Giving bin Laden the victory he craves is not my idea of justice.

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RE: Obama's speech. - 8/29/2008 8:59:20 AM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SummerWind

Free health care, more jobs, higher wages, more money for school............. blah, blah..........while cutting taxes for 95% of us?

Mostly.......I'm fascinating by the sheep who fall for this crap every four years.......




What I'm fascinated by is the people that fall for the crap that we can't afford Social Security, we can't afford health care, medicare, or other social programs that would cost a fraction of the trillions we have managed to find to pay for a senseless war.   

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RE: Obama's speech. - 8/29/2008 9:03:00 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		 

Yeah,hero to a hand full of kooks,who mean nothing.

You neo-cons give an awful lot of respect and "props" to obl and al-queda.

Frightening.

Was the plan was to let obl go,and then milk it for all it was worth,while pretending to be going after him?

Mission accomplished.

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

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Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Obama's speech. - 8/29/2008 9:09:02 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112
Osama bin Laden is a hero to the purveyors of radical fundamentalist Islam-- <snip> To the South African government, Nelson Mandela was a terrorist, and we would do well to remember that: the cliche that "one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter" holds true even for bin Laden.



Awful hijack, by the way, clord.

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RE: Obama's speech. - 8/29/2008 9:24:06 AM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59
Ummmmm Mandela was a national hero.Ummmm ,obl was behind 9/11.

Ummmm.....Osama bin Laden is a hero to the purveyors of radical fundamentalist Islam--who have shown more than ample willingness to kill and die for their beliefs. What we think of him is immaterial--what has relevance is what his followers think of him. To the South African government, Nelson Mandela was a terrorist, and we would do well to remember that: the cliche that "one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter" holds true even for bin Laden.

As for justice:

The goal of every terrorist is to draw the eyes of the world upon himself. The terrorist wins when everything people do they do looking around for warning signs of the next terrorist attack. The terrorist wins when we make him relevant. The terrorist loses when we make him irrelevant.

Bin Laden behind bars is bin Laden forever at center stage. Bin Laden killed in a hail of gunfire is a martyr to Islam and a hero on a par with Saladin. Both outcomes are bin Laden victorious.

Giving bin Laden the victory he craves is not my idea of justice.


Again, is it not a victory that he remains free?  Especially after Cowboy Bush's "dead-or-alive" speech.  You don't think that makes us look weak and foolish in the eyes of the rest of the world, particularly the terrorists?

Far be it from me to question your motives, but somehow I think that if this had been an Al Gore administration you and every other conservative Republican would be beating the "why haven't we captured Bin Laden?" drum.  

< Message edited by rulemylife -- 8/29/2008 9:28:41 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Obama's speech. - 8/29/2008 9:31:38 AM   
RealityLicks


Posts: 1615
Joined: 10/23/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

Bin Laden behind bars is bin Laden forever at center stage. Bin Laden killed in a hail of gunfire is a martyr to Islam and a hero on a par with Saladin. Both outcomes are bin Laden victorious.


You'd think he'd have let himself be caught then.

Incidentally, four al Qaeda supporters were arrested in the UK over the last week for threatening* to assassinate Gordon Brown.

*not "planning" as earlier stated

< Message edited by RealityLicks -- 8/29/2008 9:48:37 AM >

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RE: Obama's speech. - 8/29/2008 9:44:58 AM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
Status: offline
quote:


Again, is it not a victory that he remains free? Especially after Cowboy Bush's "dead-or-alive" speech. You don't think that makes us look weak and foolish in the eyes of the rest of the world, particularly the terrorists?

For what it's worth, I thought then Bush made a mistake with that "dead-or-alive" bit. Great theater, lousy policy. It is far too easy to make a martyr of him--and that would be the antithesis of justice.

Bin Laden free and hiding in a cave is not a great outcome, merely the best outcome. Even Arafat usually managed to find a decent hotel.

quote:

Far be it from me to question your motives, but somehow I think that if this had been an Al Gore administration you and every other conservative Republican would be beating the "why haven't we captured Bin Laden?" drum.
I can only speak for myself and say you would not--for the reasons I have already outlined.

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