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RE: Need advice from this side - 8/30/2008 8:24:27 PM   
mbes


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"A stranger" may well seem easier to her. There would be definite roles, in predetermined situations, with well-defined limits and no habits to break.
That's not what she has, though. She has a husband who loves her, and wants to work with her on this. Whether she knows it or not, that's a huge advantage.
Maybe you can use the roles, situations and limits to begin the exploration?

(in reply to HarleyMan2008)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Need advice from this side - 8/30/2008 8:34:29 PM   
HarleyMan2008


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She has seen this site. Im the one that found it and showed her before I signed up. She knows I have spoke of her on here but she at this point says she doesnt want to read it.

(in reply to mbes)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Need advice from this side - 8/30/2008 10:35:09 PM   
desertdancer


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First let me say that many fun toys can be found right in your own kitchen.  A wooden spoon, a basting brush with bristles, a long toothed  meat fork can all be made into some very fun times.  Let's not forget the old soap in the mouth your mom used to use as a punishment as well...run of the mill but still humiliating when dished up by your husband.

Now for my boring advise, which you may take or leave, but I hope you think about.

 Your marriage is 14 years old..this means that rolls and tempers and the way your day to day life is played out have already been established.  Your wife may be afraid that if she submits to you, she will be giving up daily say over the things she normally has "Say" over.  She could be worried that promoting you to Master in the bedroom may promote you to Master in all areas, thus taking away her normal rights and say.  She could fear that she will loose say in money, in house work in..gosh many areas.

If I were you, I would do what my Husband did and sit her right down, and ask her what she invisions, what the fantasy means to her, ask how she would see this playing out in your relationship.  Maybe she is only focused on the sexual aspects, maybe she thinks she'd want more but doesn't want to give up all her power...right off, or not at all.  Listen to what she is saying, ask her to clarify if she needs to, so that you can be very clear on what she wants..and if she can't see YOU as the Master in her fantasy, ask her what she would invision with just some random guy as Master.  You need to know what she is thinking and feeling and focusing on at this point.  You both need to be on the same page starting out, later you re-ask her all these questions.

Then once you have listned to what she wants, you tell her what your feeling, thinking and "seeing" as to how this would play out.  Be HONEST, don't be fearful, tell her what you want, tell her that you've been wanting control, tell her you didn't know how to fit it into the relationship but that you are pleased that she is intrested.

 Let her know that she doesn't need to be fearful of feeling theses things, nothing to be embarrassed about..then let her know that you'd like her to focus these feelings into YOUR relationship, not  a pretend one on Second Life.  Let her know that the things she's been dreaming of can happen and that YOU will be the one to make them happen for her, your the one willing to make those dreams come true, if she will let you. 

Remember that submitting is easier over a keyboard pretending to give up control, then it ever is face to face in the heat of the moment.  She may like the idea of submitting but not actually realize the struggle and effort it takes to do so in real life.  If she likes sex one way it can be very very hard to be patient whilst her Master contols the sex, if she likes it hard and is used to shouting "fuck me harder' it can be very hard to control herself whilst you are controling her.  The idea of the real life struggle may be what's holding her back.

I would also let her read..read a lot on here and elsewhere..she can find out a lot about what she things she would like and NOT like by reading. 

I  also think it may be important for you to think about how you really feel about this other "Master" on the game.  If you truely don't mind then it's nothing..but remember that he will also be giving her orders and whilst you two are working these things out, you may not want another "voice" in her head, distracting her from you.

Also remember a very simple "Good girl" whispered into her ear can go a very very long way.........


_____________________________

* Shimmy Shimmy *

(in reply to HarleyMan2008)
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RE: Need advice from this side - 8/30/2008 11:20:33 PM   
scottishdove


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"The other day she was at work and I asked her to go masterbate but not cum as I was going to have her build her tension and release at a later time. She was dead set against it and giggled."

The giggling is a good sign. I can 'giggle' a lot as a submissive when I am talking to a Dominant I am interested in. If I really don't take a Dominant seriously, I tend to be more matter of fact, even impatient. I think she is tempted by you but very uncertain, indecive (hello.. we are talking submissive here!).

It is really up to you to impress her enough to shift her perspective on you such she sees you as her Dominant. This is a real challenge.. but who ever said being Dominant is easy? For this some Dominants have given you some very good, impressive advice.

As for giving her commands or orders.. well, even I find I am more disobedient and evasive the farther I am physically from a Dominant, in some situations in the getting to know you stage. I would limit Dominating activities for when you are physicaly in the same location until such time as you have established more control.

I think the main thing to remember, is she WANTS to be controlled. You just have to do the work to find the approach which triggers her submissive feelings towards you. I agree with other posters.. you have 14 years of trust as a huge advantage. I think it is quite possible to overcome the previous ways of relating with that foundation of trust.

"Yes. I want her to masterbate in front of me when I say. I am trying to contain myself because this has gotten me so intense with intrigue. "

Very hot, getting her to masturbate in front of you. I would suggest tying her up first, in such a way she is immobilized except has enough freedom to do the masturbation activities she uses.. and is immobilized in such a way that she is helpless to stop you if you choose to 'interupt' and use her as you wish. 

You have been advised to avoid punishment and pain to keep her initial associations pleasant for her. I agree with that except for a minor exception.

A touch of fear helps trigger the submissive urge, and helps a submissive perceive the Dominant as having power. You can 'punish' without really hurting.. such as an act that is mildly humiliating (bending over knee and giving a few playful spanks), grabbing the hair on the back of her head and controlling her with it.

If you want to 'punish' initially, use one of these in a non-painful way to show her you are displeased but approaching it as a playful reprimant. Then, if she responds well, at some point you can increase the intensity to the point of pain, but within her limits.

Good luck.. i really hope the best for in introducing the lifestyle into your marriage.

Alice

(in reply to desertdancer)
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RE: Need advice from this side - 8/30/2008 11:35:41 PM   
aravain


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Hmm...

Can I ask a favor? :) Ask her to read what I'm about to type with you. It's not a command or anything, just a simple request from an anonymous bunch of text and it's up to her if she wants to read it or not. What I say may seem slightly patronizing, but it's not meant in such a context, really, it's just me trying to simplify things so that I can actually articulate what I'm trying to say. If I type on a more advanced level I'll probably just wind up confusing everyone but myself because of how unclear I can be.

Ok... I'll wait for you to get her...

Alright, now that you're here, let me open up a little. I'll refer to the husband as Dom, and the wife as Sub for simplicity. I have three sections, one to the couple, one to the sub, and one to the dom. You can both read all or just the ones that pertain to you :)

To the couple: When starting on the road of marriage your life was probably interesting and sparkled with brightness. This was, most likely, very similar in your sex life, and now you've found that it's a slight bit more normal, natural, and even slightly unfamiliar (in the sense that there's little intimacy in the act of making love). This is normal for a marriage, but also normal is the desire to extend the passion, the spice of the newness of a relationship. There is, however, a difference between adding in more sugar, to use a metaphor, and adding a pinch of curry or chili powder. Essentially, it's the same difference as trying to recreate the passion of a vanilla relationship, and adding BDSM to try and create new passion. You've got to be careful with both actions, either can ruin a relationship if done too much, too fast, or too soon.

The biggest, most important thing about BDSM, especially adding it to a well-established relationship, is communication. Both of you will need to sit together and discuss exactly what you're looking for, exactly when you're looking for. There have been excellent suggestions so far of taking it slow, and starting only with discreet, short 'sessions' of BDSM. My suggestion is that, for your first few at least, you can even make these scripted in a sense so that, while nothing will 'surprise' you in the encounter, you will still both experience something 'new' in it. A script can be anything from a list of actions in order of when they'll be performed (with a sidebar of possible 'punishment' if requests are not fulfilled adequately), to a full out set of non-distinct 'lines' and actions. The choice is yours... together. Below you'll find some additional notes to both of you, with a suggested build-up to what I think should be the first 'full' BDSM encounter.

Sub: You need to communicate more. At the moment, you're giving your dominant very little to go on. As I understand it, you've expressed a vague interest in BDSM to him without much backup or specific desires, fantasies, or anything else. I need you to do a few things to make sure that this is really what you want...

1) Set your limits. This can be either talking them out with your Dom, or contemplating them on your own. In either situation you should write them down and keep them in a safe place. Usually these written notes, for people new to the lifestyle, will consist of a few different categories, not unlike the ones on this site, such as 'Like,' 'Curious,' 'Tolerate,' and 'Hard Limit.' Under these categories write down everything, and I do mean everything, that you can think of. Don't want to be forced to wear diapers? Put in under hard limit. Want to be spanked (and you know you like it)? Put it under like. Want him to use a paddle, but never had one used on you? Put it under Curious. In general anything that you have never experienced before, but that you want to try will be put in Curious. KEEP THIS LIST and update it! Show it to your Dom! Discuss with him, tell him WHY what's a limit is a limit, WHY you have something under Tolerate (for instance, if you have pet play under 'Tolerate' because you don't want to be percieved as a non-human entity, but it's not a hard limit, explain to him... it may just be an effective 'punishment' and even propell it to the 'like' column eventually) WHY you're curious about something. Clarify why you like what you like, and what you like about it! Communication and understanding is KEY to making this work.

2) Start seeing him as your Dom. You've told him, apparently repeatedly, that you wouldn't be able to submit to him. I have a feeling that this is because of all the history between you... you're so used to seeing him as an equal, as your husband, not as an authority figure. The easiest way to do this is for you to start 'pretending' that he is your dominant. Pick a title with him (Sir works well, especially for newer couples) which is the only thing that you'll call him during a 'session' or, even, when you're alone and let him pick a title for you (though you should have ultimate veto rights. I know some girls who aren't comfortable being called 'slut' by their dominant, so the dominant picks another word) which is the only thing he'll use whenever he's dominating you. The main difference is that you will be constantly submissive, while he will have a different 'word' to use in order to give you an order in the idea of dominance. You'll find that, not long after starting such 'pretending' he will be YOUR Dom, and you'll not only believe it, but you'll be possessive about it too!

3) Pick a safe word. You should have one safe word, and it should be yours. Your safe word is the utter proof that power is really in the submissive's hand, because it has the power to completely stop whatever is going on. The number one ideal in practical BDSM is consensuality... and having an established safe word, which NEVER changes, is the easiest way to show complete non-consensuality in a situation where begging, or saying 'no' might be appropriate to the activity at hand. Safe words should be obvious, short, and, if possible, jarring. Some of the best safewords that I've heard from friends are: I'm PREGNANT (especially for a gay couple or a couple avoiding children), popcorn, trumpet, and ciggarrette. If gags or some other speech or hearing impediment is likely, come up with either a physical action that is obvious, or a sound that can be made (test it with each gag you'll use first!) that will be an obvious signal to the Dom. Your safeword, above all else, is a representation of yourself, so pick it carefully and revere it.

4) Test yourself. Once you have done the other three it's time to test yourself. This is most effectively done in a non-sexual situation. My best suggestion for someone completely new to it is to have their Dom set up the room with everything required to test the 'Curious' and 'Tolerate' columns of your list that they can. These are what will be tested. You will have, effectively, four different signs in addition to your safe word in this situation... RED: Immediately throw this item into the 'Limit' category. YELLOW: still curious. Come back to it later. PURPLE: Throw it into the 'Tolerate' category. GREEN: Add this item to the 'Like' category. In this situation you will have something tested out on you. Once you have had enough of the situation, and if you want to continue testing other items, say the appropriate color. If you want to discontinue testing period call out your safe word.

With these steps I'm sure that you'll be able to find a fullfilling dominant in your chosen life-partner! You'll also learn a lot about yourself, and what you truly want... and remember, that list does not have to stay static. If something in the limit category starts to make you curious... change it, and let your Dom know!

Dom: I understand that it's frustrating to operate on very little information and input but it's your place to understand and comfort your future Sub to make her comfortable with the idea of entering her fantasy and making it reality. Remain careful, tentative... but above all attentive to her. You've been married/involved for a good long time, and you probably know her better than most other people. If you think something's wrong or that she's holding something back, immediately end whatever you're doing... and open the lines of communication. Constantly assure her that you're there to listen... but more than that, be WILLING to listen to her. Don't lose your head, listen and don't judge, let her get everything out... and don't try to 'fix' anything unless she asks for it. Just like for your sub, I've got some steps I want you to take as well!

1) Respect her limits and set your own. This is IMPORTANT. While there is a difference between 'pushing' limits and going too far in any BDSM situation, especially when you're starting out even 'pushing' may seem too far! If she comes up with a limit, RESPECT it and do not even touch on it. Occassionally subs will put something on a limit because they're truly frightened of it, or cannot deal with it... and you need to be willing to accept that. The worst possible scenario is that you do not respect it, and your Sub does not mention a hard limit because she's afraid that you'll use it (either in reference or threat). Help her create her limits, and don't push... support! Tell her it's ok, let her make her own decisions... if she's not sure, ask her questions about it to try and help her! Most of all this is a passive step, but the active part is that YOU must initiate contact, YOU must ask her her limits... you need to show that you love her enough to want to know them. As a last note, don't forget to set your own limits! Don't be afraid to talk to her about this, why something is a limit and why you won't do it.

2)Start seeing her as your Sub and a person at the same time. While this doesn't sound like it's been much of a problem for you so far, there's some other things that you need to keep in mind. No matter what, above all else, she is your wife, and is your partner, the one that you chose to spend your life with! Remember this during every second of every day, even if it is just in the back of your head. Help her come up with a title for yourself, and give her guidelines on when she uses it. Come up with a title for her, and use it whenever you're dominating her (at least at the beginning it's a good idea not to use it all the time, but just when you're acting as her dominant). It'll help you because she'll almost always address you as an authority figure, though you'll not exercise that authority all the time.

3) Come up with a clear beginning and end. This is more of a personal opinion, but until you start a 24/7 BDSM dynamic (unless you're not planning on that) it is a really good idea to give any 'sessions' that you have a clear cut beginning and ending ACTION. Talk is cheap, I'm talking actually doing something. One of the best starts to a scenario is collaring the Sub. This signifies that the Sub is your submissive from then until the end of the session, among many other dynamics if you choose to involve them. UNcollaring the sub, however, might not necessarily be a good 'end' to a scene. My best suggestion would be something tender, something loving that, even if you were completely loving in the 'session' cannot be misconstrued. My favorite choice is a kiss on each of the Sub's eyelids. I think it's short, sweet, and a romantic gesture that's not usually done. The most important aspect of this step, of course, is to understand that your Sub's safeword is sacrosanct at all times. It means, beyond all doubt, no, stop, and any other number of words. The moment you hear the word uttered the session is shattered and you will do everything in your power to help her feel comfortable.

4) Test your Sub. When you feel comfortable that you've achieved all of the above steps... it's time to test your Sub to solidify what is acceptable and what is a limit. This is best done in a completely non-sexual situation for a clearer head, and you'll be doing some writing! Don't forget number 3 above! You're going to take your Sub's list and take everything in the 'curious' or 'tolerate' categories that you can and set them up to test on her. Basically your Sub will have a few different signals. RED: Immediately throw this item into the 'Limit' category. YELLOW: still curious. Come back to it later. PURPLE: Throw it into the 'Tolerate' category until she brings it up again for testing. GREEN: Add this item to the 'Like' category. An uttered safeword means a COMPLETE STOP to the testing entirely. Continue each activity till your Sub gives a signal and immediately stop and put it in the proper new category on a piece of paper. Don't forget to assure her as you go and be loving.

With all of those in place, I'm sure that you'll do great, and enjoy it too!

(in reply to HarleyMan2008)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Need advice from this side - 8/31/2008 7:50:03 PM   
Daddyssweetpea


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aravain,
good advice.

i learned a lot (and very similar to aravain's posting) from reading "The Topping Book" and "The Bottoming Book."  I forget the authors' names.

(in reply to aravain)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Need advice from this side - 8/31/2008 9:04:08 PM   
DesFIP


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From: Apple County NY
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Do start by talking to her about what she will and won't feel comfortable doing. Where was she supposed to masterbate? At her desk? Was she supposed to be focused on doing her work and earning an income, if so then your order was inappropriate as it is counterproductive to her doing her job well. Not to mention that smelling of sex at the office is frowned upon.

Start with it in the bedroom. And find out how she feels about public displays of her sex life before you demand it. As far as punishments go, you don't get to punish someone for not doing something they never agreed to do in the first place. You've put the cart before the horse here. First you negotiate about what each of you will do, then you get to give orders, once she's agreed to take them.

Because if she felt that your order was out of line, then you punishing her without her agreement becomes abuse.

The other thing here is your history together. What kind of a decision maker are you? Do you do things spur of the moment and then have to fix mistakes? Because if so, you aren't trustworthy as a dominant. Good intentions aren't good enough if you're demanding total financial control yet you spend unwisely. Do you blow up and only find out afterwards that you were mistaken? Moods and mistakes that can be accepted in a power equal relationship can be devastating in a D/s one since without the checks and balances that exist in a power equal relationship you could inflict major damage.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to HarleyMan2008)
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RE: Need advice from this side - 9/1/2008 12:49:57 AM   
aravain


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Dossie Easton and Catherine Liszt (I knew what they were but couldn't remember so I did a google search :)?

I've never read them... are they good reads? I haven't wanted to spend the money on them without being able to peruse a little, but they're hardly the type of thing you'd pick up in an open Borders and start to page through in the wide open!

Most of my ideas come from personal experience, exploration and a healthy dose of talking to other folks.

(in reply to Daddyssweetpea)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Need advice from this side - 9/1/2008 12:55:20 AM   
JohnWarren


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quote:

ORIGINAL: aravain

Dossie Easton and Catherine Liszt (I knew what they were but couldn't remember so I did a google search :)?

I've never read them... are they good reads? I haven't wanted to spend the money on them without being able to peruse a little, but they're hardly the type of thing you'd pick up in an open Borders and start to page through in the wide open!

Most of my ideas come from personal experience, exploration and a healthy dose of talking to other folks.



They are both excellent writers Janet Hardy (Catherine Liszt) is a former advertising copywriter who also runs Greenery Press) and Dossie Easton is a sex therapist.  They are both active switches and very active in the scene so aside from being able to write well they both know of what they speak.

You really can't go wrong with them.   Personally, I think Ethical Slut is their best book.


_____________________________

www.lovingdominant.org

(in reply to aravain)
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RE: Need advice from this side - 9/1/2008 1:03:39 AM   
aravain


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Cool! I'll have to look into picking them up at my next paycheck :D

(in reply to JohnWarren)
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RE: Need advice from this side - 9/1/2008 1:13:13 AM   
desertdancer


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Whilst I was in Borders, with my mom and dad I snuck off and bought John Warren's book for my Husband.. I figuered I don't look through the books my parents were buying they wouldn't look through mine.  :)   I thought maybe I'd feel like a naughty school girl, but I didn't.

_____________________________

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(in reply to aravain)
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RE: Need advice from this side - 9/1/2008 5:41:59 PM   
DestroyingAngel


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some really good advice here! yes the idea that it's hard for her to submit to someone she knows so well already makes sense but it's also your biggest strength. it's as much a question of attitude as anything. contact Me if you like, I may be able to help.

(in reply to HarleyMan2008)
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RE: Need advice from this side - 9/1/2008 7:04:02 PM   
angelslave77


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Here is another left of centre idea, find a Dom/Domme as a mentor have them guide you, this doesnt have to be in any way sexual, but it gives her the excitement of having "another"  there and you gain "hands on" training with bondage, flogging or whatever else you chose, plus you get to see how she responds to a dominant and get some clues on phrases and comands that work well with her.

It sounds to me like she has what many on here call sub frenzy, she has found her submissive side and has a burning urge to satisfy it "right now".  I am sure almost every sub on here understands that feeling and in time it will pass.

But the big damger I see here is she is tempted to go outside you marriage without you and it would seem you are not comfortable with this, that is why I suggest you both find a mentor together (and probably not the one she is talking with now). The vital thing here is that you make her understand your feelings, and i tell you now she is a lucky woman having a husband who loves her so much he is willing to follow her down this path.

(in reply to DestroyingAngel)
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RE: Need advice from this side - 9/1/2008 7:13:22 PM   
Icarys


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You do it for her then..if she's not responding to being told then try tying her up then stimulate her to the point you want and refuse to go further..so on and so on. Tha way you have control over the situation better. Become the problem solver. if she doesnt respond to a certain thing then try something else to get her to where you want. 

_____________________________

submission - the feeling of patient, submissive humbleness - the state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.

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(in reply to HarleyMan2008)
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RE: Need advice from this side - 9/1/2008 7:20:22 PM   
Icarys


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This is a good suggestion but can be a bad one if they didn't get a Dominant that was trustworthy or respectful of their marriage. Which I'm not sure his female really was either. so i would be careful bringing another Dominant into your life unless your okay with the consequences. Don't go in with blinders on.

_____________________________

submission - the feeling of patient, submissive humbleness - the state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.

Alaska Bound-The Official Countdown Has Started!
http://tinyurl.com/872mcu3
http://alturl.com/mog7m

(in reply to angelslave77)
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RE: Need advice from this side - 9/1/2008 7:27:19 PM   
Daddyssweetpea


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or you could simply just ask her to write down what she would like. 

(in reply to Icarys)
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RE: Need advice from this side - 9/4/2008 9:47:14 PM   
trueshadow


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I sort of feel the same way as your partner.  I enjoy submitting in a casual relationship, but not to a relationship I've had all along.  It comes down to the fact that I'm only submissive in the bedroom.  I'd love to start out being entirely submissive to my Owner, but for some reason I couldn't do that to a person I've been in a relationship for a while.  It's all quite difficult and messy.  I really love (and expect) to run things, but I have a strong slave streak as well.

It makes life very difficult...

(in reply to Daddyssweetpea)
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RE: Need advice from this side - 9/4/2008 10:00:36 PM   
silkenfire


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Jeez, Aravain, write a book why don't you....

*wink*

Mostly good advice. Sorta surprised at the "you need to do these things" mentality coming from you... but mostly good advice...

Safewords are an interesting concept though as you seem to be declaring that she has to learn how to top from the bottom ... and I'm slightly confused by that ... and this sentence would make a lot more sense if someone wasn't distracting me.  

(in reply to trueshadow)
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RE: Need advice from this side - 9/5/2008 3:24:35 AM   
ShiftedJewel


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My advice? Listen to Leadership... he knows from whence you came...
 
Seriously, if you love her like you say you do then this is not something you want to just jump into with both feet. Read... then read more. Then talk about it with her, then talk more. Take your time and listen to good advice. Dom frenzy is just as serious as sub frenzy.
 
Jewel

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Don't ask, trust me, you won't like the answer... no one ever does.

(in reply to silkenfire)
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RE: Need advice from this side - 9/5/2008 9:36:41 PM   
aravain


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It's more of a guideline for a couple who have, quite literally, no experience...

I would say that it's really not safe for there to not be a safe-word for a submissive at first... especially if both the sub AND the dom are new!

But the whole situation is sort of a 'one time' deal. It wasn't meant to be a guideline for the bdsm in the relationship (that would just get boring) but more of an idea on how to create the right *beginning* for a relationship. Everyone changes (sometimes that's even fortunate) but having done this once, it gives the starting couple a set of guidelines that will make a transition into the lifestyle much, much easier.

And for a sub that has a brand new dom... no, I don't see a problem with 'topping from the bottom' at first, at least until the dom has enough experience to not need it and still be safe/reactive to his partner in the right ways.

I could go on and on... but the only other thing I'll say was that I tried to tailor it (a little) to the couple themselves, though I have a distinct impression (by the fact he never posted again) that he gave up on subs' advice when he posted a thread in the Masters' forum. In this case, yes, she DOES need to start seeing him as her dom... and vice versa! Otherwise they'll never make the transition! It's like making a long jump with no running start, instead of clearing the landing you might (and I'd like to emphasize it by repeating that word) MIGHT just barely hold on to the edge with your fingernails, but you're even more likely to plummet.

One of the things I do on days that I'm bored, though, is contemplate BDSM :P I've got a head full of ideas!

(in reply to silkenfire)
Profile   Post #: 40
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