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A question about labels - 11/26/2005 2:48:13 PM

InTheMind

Posts: 5
Joined: 10/29/2005
Status: offline

Greetings,

I've been wondering how people pick between the labels 'submissive' and 'slave'. I know that in this community there are more or less standard definitions of terms, but surely most submissives and slaves have there own internal beliefs which don't neatly fit any definition.

A book titled The Lesbian S/M Safety Manual, edit by Pat Califia, attemps to break down sumissive/slave mentality into nine sub-types, from Kinky Sensualist to Consensual Total Slave With No Limits. I'd be very interested in a survey of how slaves/submissives on this board fit into these categories, if at all. Here's a link: http://www.mistressmatisse.com/slavetraining.html. The categories are at the end of the page. The material is copyrighted and a bit long, so I don't want to post it here.

Even if you don't want to read the list, I'd really appreciate hearing thoughts on the issue.

Regards,
ITM

Post #: 1

RE: A question about labels - 11/26/2005 3:05:24 PM

slavejali

Posts: 2918
Status: offline

i would fit somewhere between 8 and 9. i deliberately included 9 as my personal "limits" do not exceed Masters own limits, so there is never a question about being told to do something i couldnt do (even if i hesitate at first or ..) and there is no play Master likes that i would have any problem with, so for me, there are no limits in our relationship as far as my slavery goes with Master.

(in reply to InTheMind)

Post #: 2

RE: A question about labels - 11/26/2005 3:13:17 PM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

Oh god I hate that levels thing. If there's anything that most reinforces the notion that slaves think they are hotter stuff than subs...it's that.

I decide based on my own definitions, my own resonances, and my own orientations. Nothing more or less.

A ton of people would tell me I'm completely wrong. A ton of people would tell me I'm completely right.

None of that matters.

(in reply to InTheMind)

Post #: 3

RE: A question about labels - 11/26/2005 3:15:59 PM

JohnWarren

Posts: 3807
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Delray Beach, FL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Oh god I hate that levels thing. If there's anything that most reinforces the notion that slaves think they are hotter stuff than subs...it's that.

I decide based on my own definitions, my own resonances, and my own orientations. Nothing more or less.

A ton of people would tell me I'm completely wrong. A ton of people would tell me I'm completely right.

None of that matters.

I'm with you on the hierarchy thing. What matters is how well the behavior fits the person not where it lies on someone's list. If someone wants to be spanked a few times in the bedroom, that's what's perfect for them and no one has the right to claim "I'm better than you."

_____________________________

www.lovingdominant.org

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 4

RE: A question about labels - 11/26/2005 3:22:45 PM

slavejali

Posts: 2918
Status: offline

i love looking at lists and doing little tests and things, for me its not about seeing that your better than anyone else, its just a self evaluation thing.
i think the only time anything becomes a "im better than you thing" is from an individual whose sense of self worth needs looking at...a list itself doesnt do that.

its all fun *grin*

(in reply to JohnWarren)

Post #: 5

RE: A question about labels - 11/26/2005 3:24:24 PM

InTheMind

Posts: 5
Joined: 10/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

Oh god I hate that levels thing. If there's anything that most reinforces the notion that slaves think they are hotter stuff than subs...it's that.

I can totally understand why someone would hate trying to label so specifically, or even at all. I don't know that the original list was intended to imply that slave is better than sub, though, as the definition of 9 begins with "A common fantasy ideal which probably doesn't exist in real life."

I'm not particularly interested in the labels myself. But I am very interested in knowing what types of power exchange are more or less common, and this seemed a good way to ask the question.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 6

RE: A question about labels - 11/26/2005 5:14:00 PM

mossy

Posts: 189
Joined: 2/21/2005
Status: offline

i am grateful to you for bringing this up at this moment. i had all but given up on my slave status completely. After reading this list which i was surprised to find was very informative, i find myself more on the slave side by a mile. Yet i find it interesting.....that after a failed relationship with a "master".....healing done, time past, i was so ready to respond to you that i was a sub/slave. Truly believing....that by now i was 50/50. i guess somehow...thinking and feeling...the failure of being a live-in...combined with not having a Master now? Somehow made me less of a slave....lol.

Funny...thank you, for asking. Labels? What i label myself...is far worse then what anyone could ever label me.
But! i am catching on

_____________________________

~~inner peace & mental clarity~~

(in reply to InTheMind)

Post #: 7

RE: A question about labels - 11/26/2005 5:22:25 PM

darkinshadows

Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline

These tables and lists have no relevance on how a person serve, behaves, or is...
It's something else for people to feel more important than others.

Peace and Rapture

_____________________________

.dark.

...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to InTheMind)

Post #: 8

RE: A question about labels - 11/26/2005 5:52:07 PM

Rayne58

Posts: 746
Joined: 2/22/2005
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline

Just what I think - To me the word "slave" conjures up the meaning of having no rights and no limits. I am a submissive. I have limits, I have safewords, I can say "no" and explain why not. I live with Master but we have a relationship first and the D/s comes second. It is part of our lives but it is not a "lifestyle".

(in reply to InTheMind)

Post #: 9

RE: A question about labels - 11/26/2005 6:09:41 PM

MHOO314

Posts: 3628
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline

I believe there are somewhere ( hmmm need to check the Loving Dominant or a few websites)--that attempt to define those terms--but I have found that it happens in the negotiation, when the relationship is defined--but I'm sure others would disagree--

_____________________________

SLUTS: Southern Ladies Under Tremendous Stress...

Mistress Hathor

(in reply to InTheMind)

Post #: 10

RE: A question about labels - 11/26/2005 6:29:57 PM

InTheMind

Posts: 5
Joined: 10/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

I believe there are somewhere ( hmmm need to check the Loving Dominant or a few websites)--that attempt to define those terms--

Thanks for your response. I personally agree that it happens in the relationship (that'll certainly be the case for me, since I have almost no experience, just goals).

I should say that I certainly didn't mean to be asking "what's the diff. between slave and sub?" I know there are lots of threads to deal with that question. I'm more interested in the psychological variations and the personal opinions. Also, ala slavejali, some people really enjoy lists and quizzes and such.

-ITM

(in reply to MHOO314)

Post #: 11

RE: A question about labels - 11/26/2005 6:32:45 PM

starshineowned

Posts: 1551
Joined: 4/19/2005
From: Texas
Status: offline

quote:

i would fit somewhere between 8 and 9. i deliberately included 9 as my personal "limits" do not exceed Masters own limits, so there is never a question about being told to do something i couldnt do (even if i hesitate at first or ..) and there is no play Master likes that i would have any problem with, so for me, there are no limits in our relationship as far as my slavery goes with Master.

Agree

quote:

i love looking at lists and doing little tests and things, for me its not about seeing that your better than anyone else, its just a self evaluation thing.
i think the only time anything becomes a "im better than you thing" is from an individual whose sense of self worth needs looking at...a list itself doesnt do that.

Agree

starshine
Happy slave of Master Delvin

(in reply to slavejali)

Post #: 12

RE: A question about labels - 11/26/2005 7:07:40 PM

OsideGirl

Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Oh god I hate that levels thing. If there's anything that most reinforces the notion that slaves think they are hotter stuff than subs...it's that.

I decide based on my own definitions, my own resonances, and my own orientations. Nothing more or less.

A ton of people would tell me I'm completely wrong. A ton of people would tell me I'm completely right.

None of that matters.

Yup. I think the whole submissive vs slave debate is drivel.

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 13

RE: A question about labels - 11/26/2005 7:09:12 PM

ImpGrrl

Posts: 575
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: InTheMind

Greetings,

I've been wondering how people pick between the labels 'submissive' and 'slave'. I know that in this community there are more or less standard definitions of terms, but surely most submissives and slaves have there own internal beliefs which don't neatly fit any definition.

There is *no* standard. It's all about the people *IN* the relationship.

(in reply to InTheMind)

Post #: 14

RE: A question about labels - 11/27/2005 5:00:56 AM

MsSonnetMarwood

Posts: 1898
Joined: 2/10/2005
From: Eastern Shore, Maryland
Status: offline

quote:

I'm with you on the hierarchy thing. What matters is how well the behavior fits the person not where it lies on someone's list. If someone wants to be spanked a few times in the bedroom, that's what's perfect for them and no one has the right to claim "I'm better than you."

Yes and no.

9 Levels is on my "read this!" list for potentials that I'm talking to. While I agree that "ranking" as hierarchy is rather silly, I do think that the article itself is an excellent tool in discussing the possibilities of where these relationships can go. Much like the Kinsey scale, I think "where" one is at on 9 Levels is fluid and changes depending on where one is at in their life and influenced by who one is with. I do find a lot of people though think serving is "all or nothing" or they're well aware they lay somewhere in the middle but have a hard time communicating that.

< Message edited by MsSonnetMarwood -- 11/27/2005 5:02:03 AM >

_____________________________

~Ms. Sonnet Marwood~

Deja Moo: The feeling you've heard this bull somewhere before.

(in reply to JohnWarren)

Post #: 15

RE: A question about labels - 11/27/2005 5:08:23 AM

Littlepita

Posts: 1430
Joined: 10/6/2005
Status: offline

Well heck the link didn't work for me!

I will say however that I'm very much against labels being put on people. When I first started reading about D/s and being a sub or a slave I often found myself being frustrated. I don't like to cram myself in some mold where I don't get to grow and change as the need or desire arises.

In the words of Popeye; "I am what I am"

_____________________________

“I, with a deeper instinct, choose a man who compels my strength, who makes enormous demands on me, who does not doubt my courage or my toughness, who does not believe me naive or innocent, who has the courage to treat me like a woman.” – Anais Nin

(in reply to MsSonnetMarwood)

Post #: 16

RE: A question about labels - 11/27/2005 8:48:51 AM

Wildfleurs

Posts: 1650
Joined: 9/24/2004
From: Connecticut
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: InTheMind

Greetings,

I've been wondering how people pick between the labels 'submissive' and 'slave'. I know that in this community there are more or less standard definitions of terms, but surely most submissives and slaves have there own internal beliefs which don't neatly fit any definition.

A book titled The Lesbian S/M Safety Manual, edit by Pat Califia, attemps to break down sumissive/slave mentality into nine sub-types, from Kinky Sensualist to Consensual Total Slave With No Limits. I'd be very interested in a survey of how slaves/submissives on this board fit into these categories, if at all. Here's a link: http://www.mistressmatisse.com/slavetraining.html. The categories are at the end of the page. The material is copyrighted and a bit long, so I don't want to post it here.

Even if you don't want to read the list, I'd really appreciate hearing thoughts on the issue.

Regards,
ITM

I've seen the list before and frankly I just don't find things like that very... illuminating or helpful.

I will say that I identify as his slave because well .... I am his and belong to him. I wish I had some more evolved or complex answer but thats about it.

C~

_____________________________

"Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid." -despair.com

~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
The heart of it all - http://www.wildfleurs.com
~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

(in reply to InTheMind)

Post #: 17

RE: A question about labels - 11/27/2005 10:21:23 AM

veronicaofML

Posts: 1317
Joined: 11/19/2005
From: from iowa..now in wisconsin
Status: offline

i HATE labels.......

but ok
i am definitely #8.......

but you knew that.

MY issue is;
this limits thingie? if........IF you readily agree and assume we are not discussing crazy stuff...no dead things and such........no animals....just common reference daily stuff??
i can say there is a LOT i am unfamiliar with and with the RIGHT Ms i am willing to do just about anything within reason.
and i mean within reason.
"I" find it unreasonable to be in that deprivation thingie..since as a child i was locked in closets and not enjoyed it.
just like pain. i dont care where it comes from....i hate pain. it just trips my temper.

MY childhood was brutal enough that MOST things in this lifestyle are just reminders......
it is WHY i like domestics ONLY.
take care
best wishes
happy holidays

_____________________________

drugs sex and rock n roll,...drugs are good and so is the rock n roll, sex is over rated"
=============
"go straight to hell, do not pass go and do not collect $200"

(in reply to InTheMind)

Post #: 18

RE: A question about labels - 11/27/2005 10:23:07 AM

LadyMorgynn

Posts: 800
Joined: 11/25/2005
From: N. Carolina
Status: offline

that's because the end of sentence "." got included in the link. Just copy the link, then paste it into your web browser and delete the "." after .html and it'll work.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Littlepita

Well heck the link didn't work for me!

_____________________________

---
Lady Morgynn
www.farhorizons.net/LadyMorgynn

(in reply to Littlepita)

Post #: 19

RE: A question about labels - 11/27/2005 10:33:53 AM

veronicaofML

Posts: 1317
Joined: 11/19/2005
From: from iowa..now in wisconsin
Status: offline

contribute an amount equaling approximately half the household budget.
=========
You are TOO nice......
i am used-to----------giving up my entire acct for my Ms.....

happy holidays to You.

_____________________________

drugs sex and rock n roll,...drugs are good and so is the rock n roll, sex is over rated"
=============
"go straight to hell, do not pass go and do not collect $200"

(in reply to LadyMorgynn)

Post #: 20

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