RE: Is this dominance to you?

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RE: Is this dominance to you? - 10/3/2008 6:26:59 PM

tsatske

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Joined: 3/9/2007
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The safeword was important because it insinuated that the couple had a safeword. Most people feel that a safeword, if in place, if it is ever violated, is absolutely inexcusable.
OTOH, if anyone I was in a relationship with EVER threatened to call the cops, that would be the end of the relationship. I can't imagine, in any relationship I would be willing to be party to, what we would be disagreeing on that our own ability to work out would deterorate to the point of needing medation in blue uniforms.
I think any rational Dom, confraonted with "I'm about to call the cops on you" as a form of a safeword, would respond by stopping immedeatly, and helping the slut pack
And I am not of the 'kick 'em to the curb' school. I am usually of the 'beat them, talk it through, work it out and move on' school. But a 'call the cops' threat so badly fucks up the workings of that that there could be no possible salvaging the relationship, imo.
Now, if you meant, 'what if she clearly, clearly, CLEARLY let Him know that she wanted this to stop', I would have to say - again, a slave who is not in the habit of saying No, He better figure out what went on to make her say no this time. If she is saying it all the time, maybe they should reconsider their relationship configuration - maybe TPE isn't for them, or maybe one or both are not yet ready for it and need a couple years to work towards it. But, if this was a one time thing, they it is imperritive they spend the next several hours talking intensely and nonstip to find out WHY.
But, once that is done, if Master decides to punish her - her 'really, really not agreeing with being punished' is a moot point.
If it is not at the begining of punishment, but in the middle when she is communicating the sudden 'you really, really need to stop' - again, He really better find out why. But, once he determines that he feels it is SAFE to continue - her not agreeing with that decision is, just like all other such decisions, a moot point. It is really all up to him, and, no, that does not make it abuse.
If it makes HER feel abused, then they better renegotate the relationship basis, or something like that. truly. Because that IS what TPE means - and, no, I am not giving a narrow definition lecture, I am saying, it seems to be what it meant in this story, for them, when they negoated - at least as I read the story - and, if that is no longer working for her, some deep serious talks are in order. Maybe she did not relize what she was getting into.

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RE: Is this dominance to you? - 10/3/2008 7:15:04 PM

SlayerZ

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Joined: 3/28/2005
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None of this resembles "dominance" in my book.

There's a point where dominance ends and abuse begins, I'm afraid this sounds like more of the latter than the former.

I can only speak from my own point of view here, if a girl didn't want to do something, if she felt she vehemently about it that she would actually shed tear and begin screaming then I would get the message that the aforementioned activities weren't pleasurable for her, therefore I would cease and feel ashamed of myself for letting it get that far.

Call me old fashioned but if a girl (doesn't matter if it's vanilla, D/s or whatever) wasn't enjoying herself, if she was doing something against her will, if she had no way of stopping the "activity" then I would call that rape. I don't care if that's a strong word, I don't care if people are offended by it. To me doing something to a girl without her consent and doing something that is completely out of her control is rape. Period.

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Post #: 182

RE: Is this dominance to you? - 10/4/2008 12:10:06 AM

CallaFirestormBW

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Joined: 6/29/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SlayerZ

I can only speak from my own point of view here, if a girl didn't want to do something, if she felt she vehemently about it that she would actually shed tear and begin screaming then I would get the message that the aforementioned activities weren't pleasurable for her, therefore I would cease and feel ashamed of myself for letting it get that far.

I think this is where some of the shades of gray come in for me... see, I wear body modifications. I do -not- have a high 'supplemental pain' threshold... my body spends so much time in chronic pain that -any- pain over my 'baseline' is agonizing for me and I get no 'kick over' into an endorphin rush--though meditation does allow me some surcease in some situations, and music can help. The point is, though, that early in the process, in particular... I scream... I cry... I beg for it to be over... but my artists know me, and they also know that I -despise- the idea of leaving the studio with an unfinished piece -- even if we have to spend 14 hours completing a piece of work (which is what it took to finish my shoulder tat). I warn them up front that I am apt to be both emotional and verbal -- and let them know that, in this case, 'stop' doesn't mean 'stop' or 'stop forever'... and its one reason I -hate- having to get a new tattoo artist or piercer... someone else to have to train not to squick when I start screaming. I know I'm not the only one for whom tears, crying, screaming, and begging are just ways of coping with that 'supplemental pain', NOT a desire to actually not have something done. This is, in fact, one reason why I am pretty clear that, when I'm on the table getting a piece of work done, I'm definitely 'bottoming'.

Especially for WIITWD, there is such a vagueness in statements like "'if xhe 'clearly' doesn't like this, I'm going to stop". Perhaps it is a difference between the practitioners of SM who -also- practice D/s, and those who practice D/s, but who do not also practice SM.

Calla Firestorm

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Post #: 183

RE: Is this dominance to you? - 10/4/2008 2:20:09 AM

WyldHrt

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quote:

The point is, though, that early in the process, in particular... I scream... I cry... I beg for it to be over... but my artists know me

This reinforces a point I brought up earlier. Your artists know you, as a D in a TPE should surely know his/her sub. I assume that if something bad happened during a body mod (allergic reaction to a new dye or such) the artist would know from your tone that something was REALLY wrong and stop long enough to find out what it was, rather than strapping you down and going even harder at it without wondering why you are turning purple.

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Post #: 184

RE: Is this dominance to you? - 10/5/2008 9:46:23 PM

DavanKael

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The OP stated several posts back that the safeword was included more as a formality and what if the threat to call the cops was used instead.
First, a safeword is an actual concept (Whether folks use it or not), so interjecting it into a scenario and then eliminating it renders the scenario entirely different.
If someone is threatening to call the cops, there's something really wrong going on, be it actual abuse occurring, manipulation on the part of the submissive, and/or some other permutation of things being really f*cked up. Regardless, the 'scene', at the very least, needs to stop and some re-working and re-assessment, and possibly some running, screaming, from the relationship needs to happen...run, do not walk, to the nearest exit is my inclination on this one.
Davan

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Post #: 185