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RE: Communicating with the slave or lack there of - 9/6/2008 9:35:19 PM

lusciouslips19

Posts: 9792
Joined: 9/8/2007
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if a Master I was collared to was punitive in a non-communicative way it would get the wrong result as it is not a healthy or a mature form of correction. For a punishment to be positive, you talk of the behavior and why it was wrong. then you ask for apologies that are sincere and a punishment thats fits the crime. Not knowing why I am being punished or a withdrawal of affection and positive open communication would lead me to be resentful and tend to make me withdraw and not trust the master.

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(in reply to NuevaVida)

Post #: 101

RE: Communicating with the slave or lack there of - 9/6/2008 9:36:20 PM

MasterAramis

Posts: 279
Joined: 7/29/2008
From: Connecticut
Status: offline

quote:

Not to mention, your description of "Internal Enslavement" belongs in fantasy land.

Hmmm, What because you haven't encountered it. I try to read the profiles of people who I engage in conversations with to get a better understanding of them. If your age is correct, I am not sure how much experience you would have garnered in your life to make that assumption. I mean really, how many slaves have you owned at 25 that you can make that claim?

< Message edited by MasterAramis -- 9/6/2008 9:37:22 PM >

(in reply to MadRabbit)

Post #: 102

RE: Communicating with the slave or lack there of - 9/6/2008 9:38:05 PM

MadRabbit

Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterAramis

quote:

Not to mention, your description of "Internal Enslavement" belongs in fantasy land.

Hmmm, What because you haven't encountered it. I try to read the profiles of people who I engage in conversations with to get a better understanding of them. If your age is correct, I am not sure how much experience you would have garnered in your life to make that assumption.

And reading your posts, your opinions fail to stand on their own nor does your treatment of "slave, submissives, and Masters" bare any resemblance to reality outside of the Internet.

I've got enough experience to know when someone is full of hot air.

_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to MasterAramis)

Post #: 103

RE: Communicating with the slave or lack there of - 9/6/2008 9:38:56 PM

NuevaVida

Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterAramis

quote:

But eventually, if a person is not fed, the person ceases to thrive.

Well thank you and I am sorry you had to go through this. This is exactly the thing I wanted to get to. Recently I have known several Master's who have tried, to utilize this tactic as a form of control or punishment and I believe it has the adverse effect.

Thanks for sharing this.

Aramis

You're welcome. My situation was not born of punishment, but due to some life circumstances that were not handled optimally.

I do have a thought, though, regarding acceptance and surrender. I've never liked the word surrender, because I've always thought of it as giving up something you didn't want to, such as surrendering in a war. Yes, one can accept his/her slavery, and when one is willing, can grow and evolve over time into greater depths - of self, of commitment, of love, of submission, etc. That's what KoM was trying to get at, I believe. There is no one or the other. There is one, another, another after that, and it goes on, and everything in between. My "surrendered" level of slavery four years ago was nothing compared to what it became by the time it ended. And should I enter into slavery again, I imagine it will be a much different slavery than the last time. Whether it is your intention or not, it appears you are kind of pidgeon-holing a process into one type or another. Or am I misunderstanding you?

(in reply to MasterAramis)

Post #: 104

RE: Communicating with the slave or lack there of - 9/6/2008 9:43:08 PM

MasterAramis

Posts: 279
Joined: 7/29/2008
From: Connecticut
Status: offline

quote:

I've got enough experience to know when someone is full of hot air.

Well you are the one who has almost 3000 posts here. It would seem you spend a fair amount of time on the net. I own property currently and have for some time. After reading your posts, here and elsewhere I wonder where all this "experience" comes from, books perhaps? Well a that's a good start but how about some real experience, flesh to flesh? I tend to doubt it, not at 25.

(in reply to MadRabbit)

Post #: 105

RE: Communicating with the slave or lack there of - 9/6/2008 9:45:51 PM

lusciouslips19

Posts: 9792
Joined: 9/8/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterAramis

quote:

I've got enough experience to know when someone is full of hot air.

Well you are the one who has almost 3000 posts here. It would seem you spend a fair amount of time on the net. I own property currently and have for some time. After reading your posts, here and elsewhere I wonder where all this "experience" comes from, books perhaps? Well a that's a good start but how about some real experience, flesh to flesh? I tend to doubt it, not at 25.

One Twue Master alert!

_____________________________

Original Pimpette,
Keeper of Original Home Flag and Fire of Mr. Lance Hughes
Charter member of Lance's Fag Hags,
Member of the Subbie Mafia
Princess of typos and it's my prerogative

(in reply to MasterAramis)

Post #: 106

RE: Communicating with the slave or lack there of - 9/6/2008 9:46:13 PM

MasterAramis

Posts: 279
Joined: 7/29/2008
From: Connecticut
Status: offline

quote:

There is no one or the other. There is one, another, another after that, and it goes on, and everything in between. My "surrendered" level of slavery four years ago was nothing compared to what it became by the time it ended.

Yes I would agree with this, I believe I said it even in one of the post that it isn't a line, but a progression.

Thanks again!

Aramis

(in reply to NuevaVida)

Post #: 107

RE: Communicating with the slave or lack there of - 9/6/2008 9:48:53 PM

MadRabbit

Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
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Rather than deal with pettiness such as the age card, I'll deal with your opinion directly.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterAramis
This is where the slave has released herself completely to her Master, and her slavery is now held by the Master.

Yes, through the process of time and the development of history between two people, we eventually drop our guards and allow ourselves to become emotionally attached to our partners.

quote:

Even if she wanted to leave for whatever reason in time, the hold on her that the Master has is so great she cant.

Yes, emotional bonds and attacment grow incredibly strong and make leaving a committed relationship incredibly difficult, but to try and make this out to be some kind of absolute where they CANNOT ever leave in ANY circumstance is a false absolute and devoid of reality.

quote:

Even if she is able to walk out, the chains that held her are so tight that it may take years for her to feel fully released and become functional again.

Okay....so she might just able to even though she can't? Emotional attachment and the heart break in it's aftermath can take years for anyone in a deeply committed emotional relationship.

That's what drives me nuts about some of the Internet jockeys and theorists out there. You read the Internal Enslavement website, read romantic depictions on Gorean forums, and then come here and lecture on something you really have no perspective about.

The deep emotional entwinement between two people is no different than what poets and romantics have been dreaming of and trying to achieve in any relationship over the last 2000 years.

But a powerful and intense emotional bond doesn't equate to some inescapable non-consentual emotional state where a person just CANNOT leave the relationship.

< Message edited by MadRabbit -- 9/6/2008 9:50:55 PM >

_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to MasterAramis)

Post #: 108

RE: Communicating with the slave or lack there of - 9/6/2008 9:50:03 PM

MadRabbit

Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterAramis

quote:

I've got enough experience to know when someone is full of hot air.

Well you are the one who has almost 3000 posts here. It would seem you spend a fair amount of time on the net. I own property currently and have for some time. After reading your posts, here and elsewhere I wonder where all this "experience" comes from, books perhaps? Well a that's a good start but how about some real experience, flesh to flesh? I tend to doubt it, not at 25.

Getting condescending and super-inflating your ego isn't going to impress me nor is it going to make my arguments go away. Grow up and reply to my points.

_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to MasterAramis)

Post #: 109

RE: Communicating with the slave or lack there of - 9/6/2008 9:53:21 PM

lusciouslips19

Posts: 9792
Joined: 9/8/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterAramis

quote:

There is no one or the other. There is one, another, another after that, and it goes on, and everything in between. My "surrendered" level of slavery four years ago was nothing compared to what it became by the time it ended.

Yes I would agree with this, I believe I said it even in one of the post that it isn't a line, but a progression.

Thanks again!

Aramis

Original: KnightofMist

quote:

In fact.. I would say it better to say people are on a specific path rather than a particular box. Box seems to imply they are stagnant. But as I said.. people are full of change and many are on a path of slavery and there are many addresses along the path, many detours, many streets to turn on to. It is a busy road with many on it... and I have found that it is foolhardy to try and put them into little boxes. I have found that they are much more complex than that.

No actually, it wasnt you who said that. It was Knight of Mist who alluded to that and you just poo pooed and shut him down. Way to go for recognizing wisdom and taking credit for it!

_____________________________

Original Pimpette,
Keeper of Original Home Flag and Fire of Mr. Lance Hughes
Charter member of Lance's Fag Hags,
Member of the Subbie Mafia
Princess of typos and it's my prerogative

(in reply to MasterAramis)

Post #: 110

RE: Communicating with the slave or lack there of - 9/6/2008 9:53:25 PM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

becareful... you are judging him! oh shit.... not only am I arrogant... I am sarcastic

guilt as charged!

Yup, I'm judgmental. A term that means I know how to judge to determine the optimal choice. I'm proud to be judgmental, meaning smart enough not to ever get involved with blowhards.

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Slave to laundry

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(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 111

RE: Communicating with the slave or lack there of - 9/6/2008 9:59:35 PM

MasterAramis

Posts: 279
Joined: 7/29/2008
From: Connecticut
Status: offline

quote:

But a powerful and intense emotional bond doesn't equate to some inescapable non-consentual emotional state where a person just CANNOT leave the relationship.

For the most part I might have agreed with you, but your last line above - when she is able to leave that is when he has broken his Mastery over her which if she had still felt enslaved she wouldn't be able to leave.

Now as it relates to your comments regarding Goreans, it shows how little perspective you have of the Gorean philosophy. Goreans are anything but romantic and if you strip out all the fantasy that Norman put in his books, most of the representations were taken directly from our own history. While I am not Gorean and never have claimed to be, I do believe some of their viewpoints are spot on.

Aramis

(in reply to MadRabbit)

Post #: 112

RE: Communicating with the slave or lack there of - 9/6/2008 10:03:19 PM

MasterAramis

Posts: 279
Joined: 7/29/2008
From: Connecticut
Status: offline

quote:

Grow up and reply to my points.

No young man, you need to obtain some experience and then come back to the table.

(in reply to MadRabbit)

Post #: 113

RE: Communicating with the slave or lack there of - 9/6/2008 10:07:25 PM

MasterAramis

Posts: 279
Joined: 7/29/2008
From: Connecticut
Status: offline

quote:

No actually, it wasnt you who said that. It was Knight of Mist who alluded to that and you just poo pooed and shut him down. Way to go for recognizing wisdom and taking credit for it!

I think your sunglasses are too dark. I did in fact say that in my comment to Mad, go back and read before you post.

(in reply to lusciouslips19)

Post #: 114

RE: Communicating with the slave or lack there of - 9/6/2008 10:07:31 PM

MadRabbit

Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterAramis
For the most part I might have agreed with you, but your last line above - when she is able to leave that is when he has broken his Mastery over her which if she had still felt enslaved she wouldn't be able to leave.

See...now your just playing with words and backtracking.

Yeah...."Broken his Mastery" over her....right....in the real world, that translates into "started acting like a dipshit until she lost respect for him and packed up her bags and walked out the door".

I am sure nobody would want to leave my relationship (or "wouldn't be able to leave") if I was the greatest guy in the world and provided for my partner on a physical, emotional and spiritual level.

But you know...when those things become lacking and the relationship turns shitty and the *coughs* Mastery is broken, then people do tend to pack up and leave.

Here watch this....

when she is able to leave that is when she isn't love with him anymore which if she was still so deeply in love with him, she wouldn't be able to leave

Boy, it isn't that special and unique and sooooo different then all other relationships out there, when I put it like that, huh?

As I said before, you can play the age card all you want to try and intimidate me out of this thread, but your own opinions speak from your own lack of experience and education about relationships.

quote:

Now as it relates to your comments regarding Goreans, it shows how little perspective you have of the Gorean philosophy. Goreans are anything but romantic and if you strip out all the fantasy that Norman put in his books, most of the representations were taken directly from our own history. While I am not Gorean and never have claimed to be, I do believe some of their viewpoints are spot on.

Aramis

Where did I say anything about "Gorean philosophy"? I referenced a group of people, the "Goreans", who in my experiences talk a lot about and engage in TPE and IE type relationships.

_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to MasterAramis)

Post #: 115

RE: Communicating with the slave or lack there of - 9/6/2008 10:08:05 PM

KnightofMists

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
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oh my god............ go watch alittle Dexter! and come back and see that I missed a bigger blood bath here!!!!

Damn!

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Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to MasterAramis)

Post #: 116

RE: Communicating with the slave or lack there of - 9/6/2008 10:08:40 PM

MadRabbit

Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterAramis

quote:

Grow up and reply to my points.

No young man, you need to obtain some experience and then come back to the table.

Yeah...because your so just whooping my ass in this discussion as far as reality and experience go....

_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to MasterAramis)

Post #: 117

RE: Communicating with the slave or lack there of - 9/6/2008 10:10:06 PM

KnightofMists

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterAramis

quote:

No actually, it wasnt you who said that. It was Knight of Mist who alluded to that and you just poo pooed and shut him down. Way to go for recognizing wisdom and taking credit for it!

I think your sunglasses are too dark. I did in fact say that in my comment to Mad, go back and read before you post.

mmmmmmmmm last time I checked.. that was actually after I put the intellectual thought out there....

As I suspected.... you are hardly an orginal thinker.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to MasterAramis)

Post #: 118

RE: Communicating with the slave or lack there of - 9/6/2008 10:11:15 PM

marieToo

Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

oh my god............ go watch alittle Dexter! and come back and see that I missed a bigger blood bath here!!!!

Damn!

I think penis measurements would end this once and for all.

_____________________________

marie.

I give good agita.

(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 119

RE: Communicating with the slave or lack there of - 9/6/2008 10:11:23 PM

KnightofMists

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

That's what KoM was trying to get at, I believe. There is no one or the other. There is one, another, another after that, and it goes on, and everything in between. My "surrendered" level of slavery four years ago was nothing compared to what it became by the time it ended. And should I enter into slavery again, I imagine it will be a much different slavery than the last time. Whether it is your intention or not, it appears you are kind of pidgeon-holing a process into one type or another. Or am I misunderstanding you?

I think you are understanding it very well.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to NuevaVida)

Post #: 120

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