Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

Which Ticket Really Will Deliver Change Voters Want?


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> Which Ticket Really Will Deliver Change Voters Want? Page: [1] 2 3   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Which Ticket Really Will Deliver Change Voters Want? - 9/4/2008 7:21:41 AM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
Status: offline 		Which Ticket Really Will Deliver Change Voters Want?

quote:

While McCain, born in 1936, comes across as a quintessential 20th-century politician, his economic program could help the United States adapt to 21st-century competitive challenges -- provided he's also willing to invest in education and infrastructure instead of simply slashing domestic spending.

And while Obama, born in 1961, seems a 21st-century figure, his and (especially) his party's economics are a throwback to the New Deal and Great Society -- redistributionist, high-tax and heavy on government regulation and direction, beholden to labor unions and trial lawyers. But he does favor investment in human capital and infrastructure.

Perhaps Obama is not such a change as some would have voters believe, while McCain may be more of a change than some dare suspect.


_____________________________
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Which Ticket Really Will Deliver Change Voters Want? - 9/4/2008 9:14:33 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		CL, eight years ago I would be with you on this. Four years ago no. Now no.

The only one who would come close is Ron Paul, and he isn't getting the big chair unless a comet destroys half the planet. To me supporting Obama is indeed the lesser of two evils, because if Bush's plans are furthered, we are looking at some big trouble.

Are you aware of the new Cuban missile crisis Bush is starting ? He wants to put sites up around Russia, and Medvev (sp) has said that if that is the case, Russia's missiles will be in Cuba. There is some doubt as to whether Cuba will allow it, but they probably will given their wonderful relationship with the US. If not there are a few South American countries that might allow it. Welcome to a new cold war in addition to the "hot" wars already going on. We simply can't afford this. Bush and McCain have absolutely no responsible sensibility in the fiduciary sense.

People can spout off all they want about the economy being fine, citing numbers like the GDP, but that doesn't take into consideration that almost all the money which supports that GDP is borrowed.

T

(in reply to celticlord2112)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Which Ticket Really Will Deliver Change Voters Want? - 9/4/2008 9:35:08 AM   
bipolarber


Posts: 2792
Joined: 9/25/2004
Status: offline 		Considering McCain voted with Bush 90% of the time, and wants to expand our military actions in the Middle East, the fact that he has admitted he "doesn't know anything about the economy" and has such poor ass judgement to pick a total neophyte as his running mate...  But you know that litany, just as well as I do.  This stuff isn't even my main concern. If McCain wanted my vote, and indeed the vote of a TON of the American Public, all he would have to do is pledge to return hebeas corpus to the Constitution, and vow to give up all the special powers that the GOP has been ladling onto the Administrative Branch. Eradicate PARTIOT II, and make surveilance of US citizens without judicial oversight a crime again.

Of course, he won't do that.

I'd say I'd rather side with Obama... in THIS case, it's definitely better to go with the devil you DON'T know, arather than the one you've been screwed over by, for the last eight years. As a Constitutional Professor, there's a far better chance that he'll bring us back into compliance with the document (the blueprint for what it means to BE an American), than McCain and the fascist republicans will.

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Which Ticket Really Will Deliver Change Voters Want? - 9/4/2008 9:55:46 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		Astrologically, Palin's Aquarius is a poor match for McCain's Virgo (I speak from experience) - I sense that McCain is an idealist, whereas Palin is a pragmatic materialist: there's not much love there. (No offense to Aquarians on the boards, but they're typically stingey and obsessed with money.)

A Leo like Obama is well matched with a Scorpio like Joe Biden. They're radically different star signs, but they are equally intense and will probably make a dynamic combination.

I thought you'd appreciate some rational thinking in reply to your enquiry . Presidential tickets are like love matches, after all  .

_____________________________



(in reply to celticlord2112)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Which Ticket Really Will Deliver Change Voters Want? - 9/4/2008 10:01:38 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		bipo, I didn't know that Obama is a Constitutional scholar of a sort. I do remember one of his very early speeches in which he blasted the patriot act, something like "We don't do that here".

No candidate, even Ron Paul could bring us into compliance with the Constitution. I don't think it is even possible in two terms. However I would rather see the US going toward it, rather than away from it.

T

(in reply to bipolarber)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Which Ticket Really Will Deliver Change Voters Want? - 9/4/2008 10:09:36 AM   
cjan


Posts: 3513
Joined: 2/21/2008
Status: offline 		M'laird, your self-delusions ( are there any other kind ? ) never cease to amuse and bemuse me. Never change, dude, as I'm quite sure you won't.

_____________________________

"I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A bird will fall ,frozen , dead, from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself."- D.H. L

" When you look into the abyss, the abyss also looks in to you"- Frank Nitti



(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Which Ticket Really Will Deliver Change Voters Want? - 9/4/2008 1:53:34 PM   
Bethnai


Posts: 492
Joined: 11/8/2007
Status: offline 		I don't think the right questions are posed.  Until they are posed then no satisfying change will ever occur because the expectations will always fail.  I will vote for Obama because at least he is closer to the change that is necessary now for this country.

I think that those questions should be:
How do YOU define the general welfare clause?
How do YOU define the regulate commerce?
How do YOU define necessary and proper?
How do YOU define war powers and their limitations?




(in reply to celticlord2112)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Which Ticket Really Will Deliver Change Voters Want? - 9/4/2008 2:35:32 PM   
philosophy


Posts: 5284
Joined: 2/15/2004
Status: offline 		.........which ticket really will give change voters want? Depends on the voter, obviously. Some voters don't appear to want any change at all, some want a lot, some a little. some voters want to change the nature of their relationship with government, some want it to change in one way, some another.
There's no right answer that can be given now.

(in reply to Bethnai)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Which Ticket Really Will Deliver Change Voters Want? - 9/4/2008 2:48:56 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

bipo, I didn't know that Obama is a Constitutional scholar of a sort.

He was more than a sort of a Constitutional scholar. He taught Constitutional law for 12 years, 4 as a lecturer and 8 as a senior lecturer, at my alma mater, the University of Chicago. Which has a pretty prestigious law school so its likely he is an expert on the subject.

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Which Ticket Really Will Deliver Change Voters Want? - 9/4/2008 2:49:44 PM   
Thadius


Posts: 5091
Joined: 10/11/2005
Status: offline 		Indeed, wanting change is not a valid destination, unless one defines what they want changed, and how they are going to achieve it.

To quote the one thing that Rudy said last night that is actually applicable.

"Change is not a destination, and hope is not a strategy."~ Rudy 

In other words, one must define the destination, and present the strategy to get there.  Hoping for change is not going to make it occur, and be careful of the change that you do get, because not all change is for the better.

_____________________________

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

(in reply to philosophy)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Which Ticket Really Will Deliver Change Voters Want? - 9/4/2008 2:50:22 PM   
Raechard


Posts: 3513
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: S.E. London U.K.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112
Which Ticket Really Will Deliver Change Voters Want?


I love this guessing game:

Is it a parking ticket?
Concert ticket?



_____________________________

えへまにんへえや
Nobody wants to listen to the same song over and over again!

(in reply to celticlord2112)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Which Ticket Really Will Deliver Change Voters Want? - 9/4/2008 2:52:39 PM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Astrologically, Palin's Aquarius is a poor match for McCain's Virgo (I speak from experience) - I sense that McCain is an idealist, whereas Palin is a pragmatic materialist: there's not much love there. (No offense to Aquarians on the boards, but they're typically stingey and obsessed with money.)

A Leo like Obama is well matched with a Scorpio like Joe Biden. They're radically different star signs, but they are equally intense and will probably make a dynamic combination.

I thought you'd appreciate some rational thinking in reply to your enquiry . Presidential tickets are like love matches, after all  .


Well, that makes more sense than some of the reasons I have heard lately.

_____________________________

"Sweetie, you're wasting your gum" .. Albert


This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi


(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Which Ticket Really Will Deliver Change Voters Want? - 9/4/2008 2:55:01 PM   
FRSguy


Posts: 653
Joined: 9/4/2007
Status: offline 		The way I see it is that unfortunatly I have no one to vote for this time around and will not be voting in the election.  On a good not I wont be able to bitch about what is going on for four years...LOL

(in reply to thishereboi)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Which Ticket Really Will Deliver Change Voters Want? - 9/4/2008 2:58:51 PM   
Thadius


Posts: 5091
Joined: 10/11/2005
Status: offline 		**Fast reply**

I was just thinking back to Sen. Obama's speech the other night.  When he spoke about energy, he brought up the point of how could McCain represent any sort of change as he has been serving in the Senate for 20+ years and they still haven't gotten anything done... did he forget who he chose as his running mate?  A guy that has been a Senator for 36 years?

Just a quick thought.

_____________________________

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

(in reply to FRSguy)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Which Ticket Really Will Deliver Change Voters Want? - 9/4/2008 3:07:54 PM   
MissIsis


Posts: 473
Joined: 1/1/2005
Status: offline 		I still don't feel good about Obama, but would stronger labor unions really such a bad thing for workers.  They used to give us a great working wage & some nice benefits, as well.  In my state of Illinois, the labor laws don't even give workers a break every 2 hours.  All an employer is legally bound to provide is a half hour unpaid lunch break for working 8 hours. Many places of employment don't even allow their employees to have water to drink next to their work station.  If they wanted to enforce it, businesses could refuse to allow their employees to stop for a sip of water, except every 4 hours. 

Also, employers don't have to pay overtime pay.

Although federal law requires employers to give their employees family time off, if someone or a close family member has a chronic condition, & ends up missing a day even once a month to take care of themselves or their family member, they can still be terminated. 

The strong unions of the past used to take care of working families.

The downside of unions, was that lazy workers would get the same raised per time in, as someone who really worked hard.

I just don't see McCain making sure working families are taken care of. 

(in reply to FRSguy)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Which Ticket Really Will Deliver Change Voters Want? - 9/4/2008 3:15:22 PM   
Bethnai


Posts: 492
Joined: 11/8/2007
Status: offline 		*sigh* judging from the entertainment at both conventions, I think its a concert ticket.

(in reply to Raechard)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Which Ticket Really Will Deliver Change Voters Want? - 9/4/2008 3:52:26 PM   
chickpea


Posts: 446
Joined: 8/3/2005
From: Los Angeles Area
Status: offline 		Which party will deliver change (period). ?   The Democrats.

(McCain won't deliver change because he's catering to the Republican base as we speak... as is clearly evidenced by choosing an extremist Pro-Life for VP PLUS he's using Bush Boy Karl Rove).  He will owe the Republicans (who trashed this country) BIG TIME and have their pockets at stake (the only way they can pad their pockets more is to plunder and pilage this country to no avail), if he ever wins..  that's not change, that's more of the same.

< Message edited by chickpea -- 9/4/2008 3:53:04 PM >

_____________________________

Congrats to both In the end it was win-win. Now let's get to work http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/nov/05/john-mccain-concedes-election http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/11/17/transition.wrap/index.html

(in reply to MissIsis)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Which Ticket Really Will Deliver Change Voters Want? - 9/4/2008 4:11:07 PM   
philosophy


Posts: 5284
Joined: 2/15/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

Hoping for change is not going to make it occur, and be careful of the change that you do get, because not all change is for the better.


....true, but the point i was trying to make earlier is that different US voters have markedly different views on what constitutes a change for the better. Some believe that overturning Roe v Wade is a change for the better, some see that as an appalling prospect. Some see a form of universal health care as a change for the better, some see it as a turn for the worse.
What the candidates declare they want to do is one thing, however it seems to me that US society as a whole is polarised.......i'm not sure that any amount of polls can tell us which side has the majority, the only poll hat counts is yet to come.....

From my point of view, the change i'm looking for is in regard to foreign policy. i consider the last 8 years a disaster, not just for the US but for the world. i know i can't vote and if CL had his way i wouldn't be allowed to comment either, nevertheless i feel i do have a stake here......just not as big a stake as a US citizen.

(in reply to Thadius)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Which Ticket Really Will Deliver Change Voters Want? - 9/4/2008 6:25:53 PM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		Philosophy, you and kitten and the many posters from abroad who contribute to these Forums are welcome to do so.  This is an open access site and we have people on here from across the globe.
 
Change does need to be defined as to what type and how much and to what end.

_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE


http://KinkMeet.co.uk

(in reply to philosophy)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Which Ticket Really Will Deliver Change Voters Want? - 9/4/2008 6:27:54 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

Philosophy, you and kitten and the many posters from abroad who contribute to these Forums are welcome to do so.  This is an open access site and we have people on here from across the globe.
 


I'm sure philo will join me in saying thank you :-).

_____________________________



(in reply to Vendaval)
Profile   Post #: 20
Page:   [1] 2 3   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> Which Ticket Really Will Deliver Change Voters Want? Page: [1] 2 3   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.094