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RE: pro submissives - 9/9/2008 9:41:27 AM   
missturbation


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Joined: 2/12/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: IvyMorgan

quote:

ORIGINAL: azropedntied
I just have yet to witness  a hooker pro sub ,
*waves*  Hi.

Okay, not technically standing on a street corner in hot pants hooker.

But then, I see kink as sexual, inherently.  And if I'm beating X and they orgasm, or fisting X and they orgasm... then, I'd call that sex.

Ivy


I'd beg to differ here. Sex for me involves penetration whether it be anal, oral, vaginal. What you are describing is sexual not sex.
 


_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

(in reply to IvyMorgan)
Profile   Post #: 141
RE: pro submissives - 9/9/2008 9:42:35 AM   
GreedyTop


Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

ok, I have only read this last page.. and dammit, that pic put me off mustard for the foreseeable future...
Did we have store-bought mustard, or stuff I made, when you were here? I don't remember. 


homemade saukerkraut, not sure on the mustard...

*suddenly hungry*


_____________________________

polysnortatious
Supreme Goddess of Snark
CHARTER MEMBER: Lance's Fag Hags!
Waiting for my madman in a Blue Box.

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Profile   Post #: 142
RE: pro submissives - 9/9/2008 9:46:07 AM   
IvyMorgan


Posts: 729
Joined: 7/5/2007
From: Midlands, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

quote:

ORIGINAL: IvyMorgan

quote:

ORIGINAL: azropedntied
I just have yet to witness  a hooker pro sub ,
*waves*  Hi.

Okay, not technically standing on a street corner in hot pants hooker.

But then, I see kink as sexual, inherently.  And if I'm beating X and they orgasm, or fisting X and they orgasm... then, I'd call that sex.

Ivy


I'd beg to differ here. Sex for me involves penetration whether it be anal, oral, vaginal. What you are describing is sexual not sex.
 

Which is why I said this was my personal definition of sex.  I don't limit it to purely penetration, in part cos then, how on earth do to lesbians have sex?  I had sex according to my definition of it.  That's all I was saying.

(in reply to missturbation)
Profile   Post #: 143
RE: pro submissives - 9/9/2008 10:03:53 AM   
missturbation


Posts: 8290
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: another planet
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quote:

Which is why I said this was my personal definition of sex.  I don't limit it to purely penetration, in part cos then, how on earth do to lesbians have sex?  I had sex according to my definition of it.  That's all I was saying.


Oral sex, penetration with vibrators, fingers, strap ons?
Of course there is just touch but i wouldn't call that sex i would call it mutual masturbation.

_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

(in reply to IvyMorgan)
Profile   Post #: 144
RE: pro submissives - 9/9/2008 10:09:39 AM   
IvyMorgan


Posts: 729
Joined: 7/5/2007
From: Midlands, UK
Status: offline
*smiles*

It wasn't a genuine question, but now my head is going "yum fisting".

You're giving me naughty thoughts!

(in reply to missturbation)
Profile   Post #: 145
RE: pro submissives - 9/9/2008 10:31:35 AM   
RapierFugue


Posts: 4740
Joined: 3/16/2006
From: London, England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lynnxz

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lynnxz
You make it quite clear that you do look down on people that choose to do this. You don't hide your opinion well at all. Go ahead and call everyone a whore, it's what you're trying to get at in the first place. ;)


Please stop telling me what my opinions are. You don't know jack shit about me. If anyone looks down on this I'd say that your little $5 crack whore post said it pretty plainly. You ridicule them...for what...so you can feel like you're "above" them? You're not the first pro sub on this thread to make a negative comment about prositutes. I think that's sad. When I worked in substance abuse MOST of my clients were street whores. Hundreds of them. And you know what, they were EXACTLY like any other woman....other than their profession which arose either by choice or more often by circumstance. They had hopes, fears and dreams, they had kids who they loved, they had God's that they worshiped. They bled red blood and cried real tears. So I'm sorry, while you can make smartass posts that denigrate them....I just see them as people. And if I had ever found myself in a situation where selling my ass on a street corner was the only way I could get by in this world....I'd have been right there with them being the best damn whore I could be. The thing that strikes me as funny though....I can't remember even one of them that couldn't look me straight in the face and tell me that they were a whore when I asked them what they did for money. No sugar coating necessary.


I can sugarcoat anything I want...nothing changes the fact that I DON'T.HAVE.SEX.

Jesus. I could call myself a prostitute, but it wouldn't be true. I don't care what girls do to make money, I've got a couple escort friends who I do double sessions with, and we poke fun at eachother the entire time- I call her a slut bucket, and she jacks my handcuffs and puts them on the back of my truck before I drive off.


What's with the 'don't tell me what my opinions are? You've been posting them all over the thread.



Sometimes, I only have to read the very first post in a thread, and see the page count, to know, with 100% certainty, that there's going to be an almighty punch-up. 
 
After that, it's just a question of microwaving some popcorn and sitting down to enjoy the show.
 
This is one of those threads

(in reply to Lynnxz)
Profile   Post #: 146
RE: pro submissives - 9/9/2008 10:38:23 AM   
missturbation


Posts: 8290
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: another planet
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quote:

Sometimes, I only have to read the very first post in a thread, and see the page count, to know, with 100% certainty, that there's going to be an almighty punch-up. 
 
After that, it's just a question of microwaving some popcorn and sitting down to enjoy the show.
 
This is one of those threads  

 
That was constructive

_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

(in reply to RapierFugue)
Profile   Post #: 147
RE: pro submissives - 9/9/2008 11:02:23 AM   
RapierFugue


Posts: 4740
Joined: 3/16/2006
From: London, England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

quote:

Sometimes, I only have to read the very first post in a thread, and see the page count, to know, with 100% certainty, that there's going to be an almighty punch-up. 
 
After that, it's just a question of microwaving some popcorn and sitting down to enjoy the show.
 
This is one of those threads  

 
That was constructive


Anything which amuses me is, by my definition, constructive.
 
The rest of you may not feel the same way but hey, those are your issues, not mine

(in reply to missturbation)
Profile   Post #: 148
RE: pro submissives - 9/9/2008 11:55:09 AM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

quote:

ORIGINAL: IvyMorgan

quote:

ORIGINAL: azropedntied
I just have yet to witness  a hooker pro sub ,
*waves*  Hi.

Okay, not technically standing on a street corner in hot pants hooker.

But then, I see kink as sexual, inherently.  And if I'm beating X and they orgasm, or fisting X and they orgasm... then, I'd call that sex.

Ivy


I'd beg to differ here. Sex for me involves penetration whether it be anal, oral, vaginal. What you are describing is sexual not sex.


There doesn't have to be penetration for it to be considered prostitution. Heck, there doesn't even have to be contact.

Some examples of prostitution laws:

quote:

"Prostitution consists of knowingly engaging in or offering to engage in a sexual act for hire. As used in this section "sexual act" means sexual intercourse, cunnilingus, fellatio, masturbation of another, anal intercourse or the causing of penetration to any extent and with any object of the genital or anal opening of another, whether or not there is any emission. Whoever commits prostitution is guilty of a petty misdemeanor, unless such crime is a second or subsequent conviction, in which case such person is guilty of a misdemeanor."



quote:


§ 43.02. Prostitution. 
(a)    A person commits an offense if he knowingly: 
           (1) offers to engage, agrees to engage, or engages in sexual conduct for a fee; or
           (2) solicits another in a public place to engage with him in sexual conduct for hire.



_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to missturbation)
Profile   Post #: 149
RE: pro submissives - 9/9/2008 12:19:09 PM   
Lynnxz


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Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Atlanta
Status: offline
Whore or no whore, I need a secretary I think... I've got those 'phone etiquette' issues. Either that, or I've got to figure out a nicer way to tell them that they're not going to be able to stick anything anywhere. O.o

_____________________________

HBIC



(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 150
RE: pro submissives - 9/9/2008 12:44:22 PM   
CruelDesires


Posts: 824
Joined: 11/20/2004
Status: offline
Does giving someone a wet willy in the middle of a play session "tongue in the ear" count as sexual penetration?

C-D

_____________________________

Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself.
Lois McMaster Bujold, "A Civil Campaign", 1999

(in reply to Lynnxz)
Profile   Post #: 151
RE: pro submissives - 9/9/2008 12:47:01 PM   
IvyMorgan


Posts: 729
Joined: 7/5/2007
From: Midlands, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

quote:


§ 43.02. Prostitution. 
(a)    A person commits an offense if he knowingly: 
          (1) offers to engage, agrees to engage, or engages in sexual conduct for a fee; or
          (2) solicits another in a public place to engage with him in sexual conduct for hire.


Damn, now see, not a prostitute at all.  I never got paid by the "clients".

*goes to edit CV*

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 152
RE: pro submissives - 9/9/2008 12:56:01 PM   
Lynnxz


Posts: 4813
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Atlanta
Status: offline
Ear sex is extra!

"Once you go black, you go deaf."


_____________________________

HBIC



(in reply to IvyMorgan)
Profile   Post #: 153
RE: pro submissives - 9/9/2008 4:47:57 PM   
missturbation


Posts: 8290
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: another planet
Status: offline
quote:

There doesn't have to be penetration for it to be considered prostitution. Heck, there doesn't even have to be contact.

confused.com
I wasn't talking about prostitution i was talking about sex in general.
 
quote:

As used in this section "sexual act" means sexual intercourse, cunnilingus, fellatio, masturbation of another, anal intercourse or the causing of penetration to any extent and with any object of the genital or anal opening of another, whether or not there is any emission.

It says sexual act, not sex. I was defining sex.
 
Think i pretty much covered it with this.
 
quote:

Oral sex, penetration with vibrators, fingers, strap ons?

Of course there is just touch but i wouldn't call that sex i would call it mutual masturbation.




_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 154
RE: pro submissives - 9/10/2008 5:38:08 AM   
xxxxpinkxxxx


Posts: 28
Joined: 5/8/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sunnyfey

how dose one go about being a pro sub?
message me and ill tell you a little about it!

(in reply to Sunnyfey)
Profile   Post #: 155
RE: pro submissives - 9/10/2008 5:47:43 AM   
xxxxpinkxxxx


Posts: 28
Joined: 5/8/2008
Status: offline
Can i just say a big thankyou for all the comments,all of which were very interesting... xxx buffy ..a very proud professional submissive based in manchester ..lol

(in reply to Lynnxz)
Profile   Post #: 156
RE: pro submissives - 9/10/2008 9:10:31 PM   
MsSaskia


Posts: 415
Joined: 9/9/2004
From: Denver
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo

I'd be afraid of some asshole thinking he can beat me within an inch of my life because he's paying for it.


When we do professional switch or sub sessions at my dungeon/house of domination, there is always another person in the room to make sure that the dominant/top client is not running his/her hands where they shouldn't go, such as inside the underwear or on the nipples or anywhere else the bottom for that scene has set during pre-scene negotiations as off limits.   It's rare that any of the pro switches at the dungeon I run will allow marks that'll last longer than that day, but few paying clients have the experience or skills to know how to prevent that happening (or just don't care), so we started charging a deposit for marks to keep people from doing that "within an inch of their life" thing.  

A lot of what happens in a pro switch/sub session is that the client wants to improve his/her skills with, for example, rope bondage, and I'm there to instruct as well as to keep the bottom for the scene safe.  The sessions are just about always lighthearted and fun, and the client isn't naive enough to expect complete submission in a professional scene any more than they'd give that if they were there to submit on a professional basis;  all interactions on a professional level are relationships like any other, and you don't get twue dominance or submission with a brand-new partner any more than you would doing a more casual scene at a leather club with someone you hadn't known very long.   

(in reply to marieToo)
Profile   Post #: 157
RE: pro submissives - 9/10/2008 9:29:47 PM   
MsSaskia


Posts: 415
Joined: 9/9/2004
From: Denver
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

There doesn't have to be penetration for it to be considered prostitution. Heck, there doesn't even have to be contact.

Some examples of prostitution laws:

quote:

"Prostitution consists of knowingly engaging in or offering to engage in a sexual act for hire. As used in this section "sexual act" means sexual intercourse, cunnilingus, fellatio, masturbation of another, anal intercourse or the causing of penetration to any extent and with any object of the genital or anal opening of another, whether or not there is any emission. Whoever commits prostitution is guilty of a petty misdemeanor, unless such crime is a second or subsequent conviction, in which case such person is guilty of a misdemeanor."



quote:


§ 43.02. Prostitution. 
(a)    A person commits an offense if he knowingly: 
      (1) offers to engage, agrees to engage, or engages in sexual conduct for a fee; or
      (2) solicits another in a public place to engage with him in sexual conduct for hire.


You appear to have decided that anything that might happen in a professional BDSM session is necessarily sexual conduct and is therefore prostitution.  I find that just fascinating.  My attorney thinks it's a hoot that there are so many armchair lawyers out there ready with the big ol Scarlet P, all ready to sew it on us nasty evildoers.  

There are some states in the US where BDSM activities are specifically mentioned in prostitution law.  They are rare.  I can think of one off the top of my head, and I know pro dommes around the country who are crystal clear on precisely what their local laws state and what they can and cannot do legally.  Most states very clearly define sexual acts, ie, sexual conduct and yes, there does have to be genital contact for it to be a sex act.  Flogging, foot worship, spankings and any number of things commonly done in a professional BDSM session are not legally defined as sexual conduct.  Period.  Yes, it's sex work.  So is phone sex and so is nude dancing, but they're not prostitution, either.   An apple is not a pear. 

There are states in which much of what we do in non-professional BDSM scenes is considered illegal.  In Minnesota, where I just spent a delightful weekend at a conference, I was informed by some of the other attendees that in Minnesota, not only are most BDSM activities illegal, but there is a legal obligation on the part of any observer to report such activity to the police, much as if a minor were being molested.  To participate in a BDSM scene in that state is to commit a criminal act.  Bad people commit criminal acts.  Or is it bad laws that create criminals where none would otherwise exist?   There are some pretty stupid laws on the books, but if you get busted, you're busted and you have a criminal record. 

I find it interesting that while many non-professional kinksters fuss ad nauseum and without full information about whether pro domination is legal or not in their own state or any other, there's no fuss whatsoever about the criminal activity kinksters are getting up to in states like Minnesota with no money involved at all.    Minnesota isn't the only state that considers BDSM activities illegal, regardless of whether they're in the context of a personal or professional or casual or any other relationship, but people certainly do like to fuss about the fine points of the law when it comes to professionals.  We're dirty criminals (even if we're not, in our own states) and shouldn't be allowed in polite company (whether the laws are fair or equal or not), but the rest of the community is completely above reproach. 

If you're going to beat someone over the head with Da Law,  don't be surprised if they beat back

EDIT - Grr.  Reply stuck in a box.  Sigh.

< Message edited by MsSaskia -- 9/10/2008 9:35:32 PM >

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 158
RE: pro submissives - 9/10/2008 10:26:07 PM   
OneMoreWaste


Posts: 910
Joined: 8/24/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

ok, I have only read this last page.. and dammit, that pic put me off mustard for the foreseeable future...
Did we have store-bought mustard, or stuff I made, when you were here? I don't remember. 


homemade saukerkraut, not sure on the mustard...

*suddenly hungry*



Great, it's contagious. I just looked at the last page, found this, and had to go look to see why y'all were talking about mustard.

I just bought a 36-pack of Nathan's at Costco today (srsly) and I've got a 20-foot Cadillac, now where are my %(*#^%$_ whores??


You think I sell my body, I merely sell my time
I ain't no Cinderella, I ain't waitin' for no prince, yeah...

(in reply to GreedyTop)
Profile   Post #: 159
RE: pro submissives - 9/11/2008 5:36:31 AM   
Abaddon2u


Posts: 49
Joined: 8/12/2008
Status: offline
Humm if a pro sub and a pro dominant get together, who pays?

Abaddon

"the only difference between myself and a madman is that I am not mad." - Salvador Dali

(in reply to faerytattoodgirl)
Profile   Post #: 160
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