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RE: Wit's end - Cost of BDSM - 9/6/2008 4:49:35 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Venatrix

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Actually, i have never been stood in a corner.


It can't be that difficult. 


Nice one ! if i moan about the degree of difficulty, i prove i am a whinging pomme. Sounds like a lose lose situation Ma`am

Night night to you all, and sorry to the Op for the mini hijack.

(in reply to Venatrix)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Wit's end - Cost of BDSM - 9/6/2008 4:52:46 PM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		I am trying to understand why it HAS to cost anything.

A little imagination goes a long way.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to tempted80)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Wit's end - Cost of BDSM - 9/6/2008 5:51:18 PM   
WyldHrt


Posts: 6412
Joined: 6/5/2008
Status: offline 		I'm with LaT. I make most of my own toys, and save a ton of money that way. I also have pervertables from dollar stores and Dom Depot. That said, I'm a sub who believes in bringing her own toys. 

_____________________________

"MotherFUCKER!" is NOT a safeword!!"- Steel
"We've had complaints about 'orgy noises'. This is not the neighborhood for that kind of thing"- PVE Cop

Resident "Hypnotic Eyes", "Cleavage" and "Toy Whore"
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(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Wit's end - Cost of BDSM - 9/7/2008 3:39:29 AM   
OneMoreWaste


Posts: 910
Joined: 8/24/2008
Status: offline 		So if you go on a date with a guy and he cooks you a nice dinner at his home, do you feel that you should contribute to the cost of his kitchen appliances? 

< Message edited by OneMoreWaste -- 9/7/2008 3:51:19 AM >

(in reply to Venatrix)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Wit's end - Cost of BDSM - 9/7/2008 3:42:14 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		That'll be one dollar for the fridge, two for the stove because I used the oven also...............

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to OneMoreWaste)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Wit's end - Cost of BDSM - 9/7/2008 3:44:24 AM   
tempted80


Posts: 17
Joined: 5/12/2005
Status: offline 		No I wouldn't but as I've pointed out, I don't own my own dungeon.  However if I were invited to dinner I would expect to bring at least 1 bottle of wine and probably another gift.

We're not talking here about knowing a sub long term who's been in my stable a while, we're talking of first meet.  Haven't even met for a coffee and moved on yet.

I'm also not talking about anyone particular sub but a stream of subs who think their "gift of submission" is all, what about my gift of dominance?

Lastly, I also make my own things and use pervertables, down to silly things like red Royal Mail elastic band and little golden bells from Lindz chocolate animals. 

Ms T

quote:

ORIGINAL: OneMoreWaste

So if you go on a date with a guy and he cooks you a nice dinner at his home, do you feel responsible to contribute to the cost of his kitchen appliances? 

(in reply to OneMoreWaste)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Wit's end - Cost of BDSM - 9/7/2008 4:17:15 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		Well then it sounds like a communication problem.

If I invite someone to my  home for dinner, unless I have requested them to bring something, I do not expect them to bring anything but themselves. I invited them, not a bottle of wine or some flowers. Oh, I know the whole hostess gift, good manners thing. That is all well and good but you have got to convey your expectations or you have no room to whine when they are not met. It may not be romantic or Miss Manners but then again I am a realist. Not everyone grew up learning the proper thing to do in every social situation nor have the foresight to try and learn now.

For myself, I feel it is my responsibility to find out where a submissive/slave is lacking in an area that is important to me. If it can be taught, I teach. If it is simply a weakness in personality or differernce of opinion I decide if it is important enough to tell them goodbye.

Basically it all comes down to responsibility doesn't it.........both share it. The dominant/leader has a responsibility to be clear about expectations, the sub/slave/follower has a responsibility to follow through or ask if the expectations are unclear. Communication is key, mind reading is not a skill everyone has. Soooo, if I expect someone to bring me a golden goose egg when I invite them to my home for dinner and a beating, I think I had better tell them at the time of the invitation. Karat weight, size, etc......all info. It just makes sense to me. But then, I have never expected, or asked for, the egg either.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to tempted80)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Wit's end - Cost of BDSM - 9/7/2008 5:46:58 AM   
MsCfromMelbourne


Posts: 777
Joined: 2/15/2007
Status: offline 		By the way, welcome to the board Ms T!!!




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(in reply to tempted80)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Wit's end - Cost of BDSM - 9/7/2008 7:05:54 AM   
Venatrix


Posts: 2238
Joined: 11/28/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OneMoreWaste

So if you go on a date with a guy and he cooks you a nice dinner at his home, do you feel that you should contribute to the cost of his kitchen appliances? 


You misunderstand.  It isn't that he didn't pay for something, it's that he didn't bring anything but his sorry arse to the table, including good manners.  Who wants to play with a creep like that?  Not even an effing bloody "Thank you."  If I went to someone's (anyone's) house for dinner, I would at least bring wine.  It's to acknowledge the effort that the host or hostess made.  I assume you can understand this simple concept of good manners? 

< Message edited by Venatrix -- 9/7/2008 7:21:30 AM >

(in reply to OneMoreWaste)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Wit's end - Cost of BDSM - 9/7/2008 7:10:56 AM   
Venatrix


Posts: 2238
Joined: 11/28/2007
Status: offline 		LaT, whilst you make some valid points about training and communication of expectations, I expect my subs to come already equipped with basic social skills.  I'm not wasting my time on someone who has reached the age of, say, 40, and hasn't yet learnt consideration for other people.  And, frankly, that applies to the everyone I encounter, regardless of their sexual proclivities.

By the way, LaT, this wasn't a rant directed at you, but rather the appalling behaviour I see on the part of many submissive men.  Given the numbers disparity, you'd think they'd make an extra effort to be seen in the best possible light.

< Message edited by Venatrix -- 9/7/2008 7:53:48 AM >

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Wit's end - Cost of BDSM - 9/7/2008 7:44:22 AM   
undergroundsea


Posts: 2400
Joined: 6/27/2004
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tempted80
Why do they think they shouldn't even buy stockings, or pay for personal use equipment such as sounds and anal toys.  Really am aghast?


In my opinion, a submissive should have his own toys both for sake of convenience and availability, and for health related reasons. I agree that it is unreasonable for a sub to refuse to get these personal use toys. I am wondering how much it is a question of the opportunity (have not yet done research about what to get, where to get, etc) or trigger (a relationship which now requires regular use, or interest in BDSM crossing that threshhold of regular enough participation) of purchase simply not coming up, and how much is it an unwillingness to purchase. I wonder how they would respond if you suggested to them that they should purchase their own set of these items.

That said, over time I have acquired a reasonable collection of play accessories and wardrobe, and travel to attend events regularly. If I play with a domme who does not have toys, or who has not spent on wardrobe or travel as I have, I do not expect her to compensate me in some way towards what I have spent to get these toys. If I were to play with someone who had invested more than I have and was asked to contribute towards their cost, I would find it odd because of the way I feel when at the other end of it (when I have spent and choose to play with someone with whom I am interested to play).

Cheers,

Sea


(in reply to tempted80)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Wit's end - Cost of BDSM - 9/7/2008 7:59:30 AM   
OneMoreWaste


Posts: 910
Joined: 8/24/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Venatrix

quote:

ORIGINAL: OneMoreWaste

So if you go on a date with a guy and he cooks you a nice dinner at his home, do you feel that you should contribute to the cost of his kitchen appliances? 


You misunderstand.  It isn't that he didn't pay for something, it's that he didn't bring anything but his sorry arse to the table, including good manners.  Who wants to play with a creep like that?  Not even an effing bloody "Thank you." 


Sorry, I'm not sure why you ended up getting the Fast Reply tag, my response was directed at the OP. I'm not making excuses for someone who doesn't understand basic manners (well, other than myself)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tempted80
No I wouldn't but as I've pointed out, I don't own my own dungeon. 


Sorry, I missed that- I'm not used to the concept of hiring a play space, I have my own, and there isn't a proper Dungeon within 300 miles. I can see how that would seem like an unreasonable expect to be expected to bear for the privilege of playing with a new sub. I'm with 'sea as far as general gear, though.

(in reply to Venatrix)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Wit's end - Cost of BDSM - 9/7/2008 8:02:04 AM   
tornaway


Posts: 174
Joined: 4/14/2007
Status: offline 		        Whether we're speaking about the world of Bdsm , or the rest of  life -  no one can take advantage of you , without your cooperation .   
 
        If you wish someone to contribute something , monetarily or otherwise , in order for you to feel good about a situation - then you need to put it out there  and make that clear before anything else occurs .   They don't agree , or don't  contribute along the way on their own ?   Don't proceed .    Easy .
 
     I can be very generous , but  I eliminate potential problems by not  keeping  company with freeloaders of any kind .

(in reply to undergroundsea)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Wit's end - Cost of BDSM - 9/7/2008 8:10:21 AM   
rookey


Posts: 100
Status: offline 		Judging from what I've read in this thread it seems that the keyword here is respect. 

This thread gives me the impression that is the absence of respect above all else that is causing irritation.

No contributions, no manners, no consideration, etc. etc. all boils down to a lack of respect.

_____________________________



(in reply to tempted80)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Wit's end - Cost of BDSM - 9/7/2008 8:14:57 AM   
undergroundsea


Posts: 2400
Joined: 6/27/2004
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rookey
This thread gives me the impression that is the absence of respect above all else that is causing irritation.


Insightful statement.

Cheers,

Sea

(in reply to rookey)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Wit's end - Cost of BDSM - 9/7/2008 8:31:31 AM   
Venatrix


Posts: 2238
Joined: 11/28/2007
Status: offline 		Your misdirection of the fast reply tag is understood, but regardless of to whom your post was directed, it really is good manners to show up with something as a token of appreciation, even if it's just a bunch of daisies.  It's not the fact that someone *bought* something, it's that they took the time and trouble to acknowledge your efforts.

(in reply to OneMoreWaste)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Wit's end - Cost of BDSM - 9/7/2008 8:34:03 AM   
MsStarlett


Posts: 1879
Joined: 12/23/2007
Status: offline 		As with anything else... it's all about pre-meet negotiating skills.  I know that some of my boys are a little better of financially than others.  I expect more of those that I know have the ability to give more.  But we always find a place that makes both of us happy and that we both think is a fair exchange. 

Example:  My boy Wall-e makes a lot of money.  We have never met in person.  He enjoys buying me shoes... I take special photos of me wearing the shoes for him.  I lavish internet attention on him and calls me on the phone when he can.  We are both happy.

My best boy Westie does not make that much.  He drives down to see me and pays for a hotel room.  He bought his own Rimba and some other toys and clothes for me.  I buy most of my own clothes and other toys.  I even take the boy out and buy his dinner from time to time.  Sometimes I let him sleep on my couch.  He spends a lot more money coming to visit me and he gets a lot more out of our time together.  But he's not putting that cash in my hand... its just paying for the play space.


_____________________________

It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed,
the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning,
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.

(in reply to undergroundsea)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Wit's end - Cost of BDSM - 9/7/2008 8:34:23 AM   
Venatrix


Posts: 2238
Joined: 11/28/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tornaway

        Whether we're speaking about the world of Bdsm , or the rest of  life -  no one can take advantage of you , without your cooperation .   
 
        If you wish someone to contribute something , monetarily or otherwise , in order for you to feel good about a situation - then you need to put it out there  and make that clear before anything else occurs .   They don't agree , or don't  contribute along the way on their own ?   Don't proceed .    Easy .
 
     I can be very generous , but  I eliminate potential problems by not  keeping  company with freeloaders of any kind .


I'm going to disagree with you here.  One really shouldn't have to say to someone "I expect basic good manners from you."  For those people who are well mannered, and thankfully that *is* most people, my saying that to them would be a metaphorical slap in the face.

(in reply to tornaway)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Wit's end - Cost of BDSM - 9/7/2008 11:17:13 AM   
DelilahDeb


Posts: 429
Joined: 1/27/2008
Status: offline 		Not all subs miss that boat. The service sub who manages my yard chores (and incidentally pays for his own tools and disposal fees) has gifted me with many, many toys already. The first dozen were focused on enabling and expanding our play: CBT toys, butt plugs, vibrators, lube, condoms, and such. He has also gifted me with a new Hitachi Magic Wand and g-spot attachment, for my own fun.

_____________________________

"All acts of love & pleasure are My rituals."
--from the Charge of the Goddess, a Wiccan teaching

(in reply to Venatrix)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Wit's end - Cost of BDSM - 9/7/2008 11:44:01 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Venatrix

LaT, whilst you make some valid points about training and communication of expectations, I expect my subs to come already equipped with basic social skills.  I'm not wasting my time on someone who has reached the age of, say, 40, and hasn't yet learnt consideration for other people.  And, frankly, that applies to the everyone I encounter, regardless of their sexual proclivities.

By the way, LaT, this wasn't a rant directed at you, but rather the appalling behaviour I see on the part of many submissive men.  Given the numbers disparity, you'd think they'd make an extra effort to be seen in the best possible light.


Venatrix, I completely understand what you are saying. I really think it depends on background and location. I guarantee you that at least 90 of the men from this area would be totally clueless. If I was so inclined.....and invited them out here to eat, the only thing they would  bring would be their appetite. It doesn't make them bad people, just ignorant. If I expected them to bring something I would make sure to tell them, and be very specific. Example, if I told them to bring a good bottle of wine there is a very good chance it would be something like Boone's Farm $4 dollar special. I would consider it MY error for not understanding the nature of the beast I am dealing with.

Again, I don't think this mistake makes the sub/slave a terrible person. Just in need of some education.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to Venatrix)
Profile   Post #: 40
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