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RE: 60 Minutes Report on Plan B - 11/28/2005 6:38:58 AM   
candystripper


Posts: 3486
Joined: 11/1/2005
Status: offline 		Hey maybemaybenot -- i know that site and it seems to be reliable. i had no idea the Catholic Church made ANY exceptions for abortion to save a mother's life (though an etopic pregnancy is a no-brainer since both mother and child will die without surgery).

i just love these boards; such brainy people.

candystripper

< Message edited by candystripper -- 11/28/2005 6:39:30 AM >

(in reply to candystripper)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: 60 Minutes Report on Plan B - 11/28/2005 6:51:15 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

So obviously the FDA standard for granting OTC status is not perfect safety. However, as reported in 60 Minutes, Plan B has been studied fairly extensively and NO side effects were found -- presumably the studies also looked at misuse and chronic use.


First off, the FDA doesn't guarantee perfect safety with anything. Toxic pharmaceuticals HAVE negative side affects. It might take 20 years for them to fully realize the implications as to the long term....like Diethylstilbestrol, perhaps? Relying on the FDA to make choices for you as to what you are going to imbibe for your own personal health is ludicrous.

Secondly, your Catholic Church seems to have an issue with anyone "playing God" and that means terminating fetuses as well as manipulating ovulation, cauterizing fallopian tubes, etc. The even worse problem is when a Catholic Hospital has effectively monoplolized hospital care within the city and the only one that you can turn to for medical attention is THEM. this slave had to have a special ok handed down from the nun in charge of the hospital in her city because 3 doctors recommended a partial hysterectomy for an otherwise healthy 25 year old woman......and this slave has NEVER been Catholic. Perhaps the Catholic Hospitals should have to abide by the same rules as the ones that are non-denominational, especially when they eliminate any other alternative to the local populace.

(in reply to candystripper)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: 60 Minutes Report on Plan B - 11/28/2005 9:30:08 AM   
MsIncognito


Posts: 742
Joined: 5/24/2005
Status: offline 		About 14 years ago I was faced with a situation where our primary form of contraception failed despite our best efforts (yep, condoms can break even if you follow all directions carefully) so I went to a local walk in clinic and explained the situation to the Dr on staff. What he gave me were basically very high dosage birth control pills taken at short intervals for the next 2. I was to take two as soon as the prescription was filled, and two more at six hour intervals for the next two days (I think, it's been a while so I might be fuzzy on the details).

He was sensitive to the fact that I was (a)young and a bit embarassed (b) responsible enough to take precautions and not using the MAP on a regular basis in lieu of contraceptives and (c) that some pharmacists in the city would refuse to dispense it based on religious grounds. Instead of having the pharmacist dispense the number of pills I needed with directions for how to take them he gave me a prescription for one month's worth of the birth control pill and then gave me written direction for how to take it and to discard the rest when I was finished. That way as far as the dispensing pharmacist was concerned it was just a prescription for standard birth control pills and not the MAP. There are always ways around 'the system' if a Doctor is willing to find them.

I realize that PlanB is a different drug altogether, but I think one of the down sides is that there is no question whatsoever what it is for and it can prevent women from getting the assistance they need in a time of crisis because a Hospital, Dr or Pharmacist feels their religious beliefs supercede other's rights to medical care.

(in reply to LaMalinche)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: 60 Minutes Report on Plan B - 11/28/2005 9:31:45 AM   
MsIncognito


Posts: 742
Joined: 5/24/2005
Status: offline 		Ahh, there's the rub! In larger cities where patients have options it's not a huge issue but in small towns where there is only ONE hospital and ONE pharmacist it can get dicey.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
The even worse problem is when a Catholic Hospital has effectively monoplolized hospital care within the city and the only one that you can turn to for medical attention is THEM.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: 60 Minutes Report on Plan B - 11/28/2005 9:42:56 AM   
LaMalinche


Posts: 2077
Joined: 10/20/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: candystripper

quote:

Ms. Candystripper,

No, the morning after pill and RU 487 are two different things. One is an abortifaciant (RU487), while the other prevents the sperm from reaching the egg and settling comfortably in the womb.

The question remains: Are we talking about the same drug or not?

LaMalinche


No Sir; these two drugs -- RU487 and Plan B -- are separate chemical compositions, with Plan B being the superior choice. It cannot be called an abortificant; it works to prevent ovulation so no pregnancy can occur; it is also able to prevent implantation of a fertiziled egg in those rare cases where ovulation already occured.

By contrast, RU487 causes a spontaneous miscarriage in early pregnancy by chemical means, which is the reason that medical attention is necessary.

RU487 is widely known; until i watched the 60 Minutes report i had not heard of Plan B.

candystripper



Ms. Candystripper,

Sorry if you miss understood me, but I meant that RU487 was the abortafaciant, and that the MAP or Plan B was what prevented conception. RU487 is only administered after a positive preganany test, where as high levels of estrogen (birth control pills aka what I have been refering to as the "Morning After Pill") or plan B is administered after unprotected sex (can be condom breakage, rape, whatever). Other abortafaciants include pennyroyal and Queen Anne's Lace.
Sorry that I was not clear.
I am wondering, does anyone know what the active ingrediant in Plan B is?

(in reply to candystripper)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: 60 Minutes Report on Plan B - 11/28/2005 10:07:48 AM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

I am wondering, does anyone know what the active ingrediant in Plan B is?


Each Plan B tablet contains 0.75mg of a single active steroid ingredient levonorgestrel, a totally synthetic hormone. Inactive ingredients are colloidal silicon dioxide, potato starch, gelatin, magnesium stearate, talc, corn starch and lactose monohydrate.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to LaMalinche)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: 60 Minutes Report on Plan B - 11/28/2005 10:12:29 AM   
LaMalinche


Posts: 2077
Joined: 10/20/2005
Status: offline 		Thank you Ms. Erin.

Oh, and it is RU486 (don't I feel like the idiot).

So it is a hormone that prevents conception. Hmmm. Interesting.

Can you tell me the relationship that it has to oral contraceptives? Those are synthetic also. How is it different from a large dose of BCPs?

As it says, I'm "curious".


(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: 60 Minutes Report on Plan B - 11/28/2005 10:16:15 AM   
LaMalinche


Posts: 2077
Joined: 10/20/2005
Status: offline 		Nevermind Ms. Erin. I have found the answer. It is the same hormone in many BCPs, yet it does not contain Estrogen.

Thank you however, for your time.

(in reply to LaMalinche)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: 60 Minutes Report on Plan B - 11/28/2005 1:24:01 PM   
Wolf1020


Posts: 447
Joined: 11/7/2005
From: Anderson, SC
Status: offline
quote:

Wolf, i appreciate what You have said but respectfully disagree with You on a few points. There is no medical, social, or scientific reason to require Plan B be scripted rather than over the counter. It is a safe drug. No one disputes that. i feel Plan B is comparable to condoms.

All drugs have possible side effects. The worst side effect you will get from a condom is a rash if you have a latex allergies. But all drugs are billed as safe, that doesn't mean they are sold over the counter. Heavy pain med's aren't sold OTC, even one's that aren't narcotics. Just as safe as Tylenol, but aren't sold OTC for whatever reason, I think that plan B falls similarly.

quote:

As for someone's beliefs regarding birth control, some people follow the Church's teachings on the subject, and i do not think they should be ridiculed. However, i do understand Your reaction to the notion of foregoing birth control....to me also it seems ridiculous. As i have said in other posts, being Catholic is not for weenies.

I agree I don't think they should be ridiculed. But a private business or organization has as much right to not offer or carry something as a person has to want it. They are a private business and have the right to not carry a medication that they feel terminates life just like they have the right to not do an actual abortion.

quote:

Patient dumping, however, is a serious problem and the regulatory bodies and government agencies will punish severely if a hospital does this. i know of no other circumstances in which a patient may be transported to another facility at the hospital's request

But it wouldn't be at the hospitals request. It would be at the patients since it is she who would want to be transferred. Look at it this way. If a patient wish's to have an abortion outside of her life being in danger a hospital does not have to do it and she will have to be transferred. I think a hospital should have the same medication discretion as they do for procedures. As you say above that quote a hospital can transfer an uninsured patient. This is true. The hospital is required to provide emergency medicine and procedures to stabilize a patient. Once the patients condition is stabilized and s/he is able to survive the trip they are taken to another hospital for further care. This includes anything not needed to save a patients life or that would put them in undue suffering (such as with holding any pain medication so they can make the trip) plan B is not needed to save a persons life and is not needed to ease a persons suffering like pain medication.

Chaingang-
I stated that as a personal belief. What you stated? Well frankly that was one of the most bigoted ignorant disrespectful posts to a group of people I have ever seen.

Merc-
I am sorry to hear that. I think that in cases like that (unless it was needed immediatly to save your life) I think they should have had to provide a transfer to a hospital that would have been willing to do it or, like they eventually did, agree to do the procedure as a special circumstance. Perhaps a certian ammendment to my thinking would be that if no hospitals withen a certian radius (say for the sake of argument 50 miles) willing to do it either they would wave their right to deny precedure that indirectly results in violation of one of their views. So such things as removal of a tube (unless her life was in iminant danger in which case they should have to do it reguardless) they would have to do if no other hospitals around are willing to do it either. None nescisary procedures that directly violate their beliefs, such as an actual abortions, would not count to this though unless it was a matter of the mothers health. In short if no other hospitals will do it and it isn't a direct violation or it is needed as an emergency they will have to grunt ant bare it, though procedures which are elective that directly go agianst their beliefs would not count to this ammendment.


(in reply to candystripper)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: 60 Minutes Report on Plan B - 11/28/2005 2:01:18 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

I realize that PlanB is a different drug altogether, but I think one of the down sides is that there is no question whatsoever what it is for and it can prevent women from getting the assistance they need in a time of crisis because a Hospital, Dr or Pharmacist feels their religious beliefs supercede other's rights to medical care.


In Canada, Plan B can be given out by a pharmacist. If the woman goes to a pharmacist to get Plan B without a doctor's prescription, the pharmacist should take a moment aside with the woman and ask her questions regarding what happened as well as probe to find out if the woman knows how to protect herself in the future. Then the drug can be dispensed. Not only does this save time (Plan B has to be taken within a certain amount of time to be effective) but also saves a lot of money to our health care system.

Now word to the wise, Plan B doesn't always work, even when taken within the prescribed period of time. Treatment initiated within 72 hours after unprotected intercourse reduces the risk of pregnancy by around 75% only.

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to MsIncognito)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: 60 Minutes Report on Plan B - 11/28/2005 2:39:34 PM   
Chaingang


Posts: 1727
Joined: 10/24/2005
Status: offline 		Sorry about that Wolf1020, we all have our own ideas and beliefs don't we? Unlike some of the groups which are the subject of this thread, I am not trying to put my ideas over on anybody else. You may take or leave my ideas as you see fit.

BTW, I have every right to think Xtians are hilarious idiots. That's not bigoted. I support your right to have whatever idiotic and hilarious beliefs you want to maintain. Do I believe as you do? Good fucking god NO!!!

I may have to start a thread about your strange belief system, that might be fun. Kind of a test your knowledge thing...

_____________________________

"Everything flows, nothing stands still." (Πάντα ῥεῖ καὶ οὐδὲν μένει) - Heraclitus

(in reply to Wolf1020)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: 60 Minutes Report on Plan B - 11/28/2005 3:11:27 PM   
RiotGirl


Posts: 3149
Status: offline 		Plan B... sounds like the universe needs it, that its a good thing

(in reply to candystripper)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: 60 Minutes Report on Plan B - 11/28/2005 3:36:39 PM   
darkinshadows


Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline
Being from the UK - I just wanted to add something from 'across the pond' -

We have The Combined Pill which is known in the UK just simply as 'The Pill' and takes longer to 'kick in'. This causes thickened mucus from your cervix. This makes it difficult for sperm to move through it and reach an egg. It also makes the lining of your womb thinner so it is less likely to accept a fertilised egg. There are associated medical risks using this method of contraception. These are available from your clinic or doctor. There are three main types: Monophasic 21 day pills, Phasic 21 day pills, and EveryDay (ED) pills.

Now, after some study (disturbing study I might add) I find people using the term RU487 as a MOP and considering it abortive. I wanted to just state that it may be like that in the USA, but in the UK MOP is not considered an abortive.

The Morning After Pill or 'Progestogen-only' or POP is a used after unprotected sexual intercourse. It works mainly by thickening the mucus from your cervix. This makes it difficult for sperm to move through it and reach an egg.
It makes the lining of your womb thinner so it is less likely to accept a fertilised egg.
It sometimes stops your ovaries releasing an egg (ovulation). The FPA state that it is NOT an abortion Pill and that if pregnant when taken, does not cause birth defects. It will not work if the woman is ALREADY PREGNANT. These are available from a phamacist over the counter or at clincs or your doctor.

In the UK and europe and I think canada as well - MOP/POP/Emergency Contraceptive(EC) would be the equivilent to Plan B. It seems in the USA either some people are trying to link RU487 with MOP/EC or that RU487 is known there as the MOP and there could be a cultural divide (which is where a few of the misunderstanding could have occured).

I would be interested if officially (medical not church based info) RU487 is - in the USA - considered a MOP or an abortive.
If someone can help me with that, I would be grateful. Thanks.

Peace and Love



_____________________________
.dark.



...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to candystripper)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: 60 Minutes Report on Plan B - 11/28/2005 8:07:29 PM   
MsIncognito


Posts: 742
Joined: 5/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

In Canada, Plan B can be given out by a pharmacist. If the woman goes to a pharmacist to get Plan B without a doctor's prescription, the pharmacist should take a moment aside with the woman and ask her questions regarding what happened as well as probe to find out if the woman knows how to protect herself in the future. Then the drug can be dispensed. Not only does this save time (Plan B has to be taken within a certain amount of time to be effective) but also saves a lot of money to our health care system.


All true unless a pharmacist refuses to dispense PlanB based on religious grounds. As I said before in a large city you'll have the inconvenience of having to go to another pharmacy as the worst case scenario. In the small town I lived in up north there was only one pharmacy. If they decided not to dispense PlanB for any reason every female in town was out of luck unless they were willing/able to drive 45-60 minutes to the next nearest town (even smaller than ours) in the hopes the pharmacist there would dispense it.

quote:


Now word to the wise, Plan B doesn't always work, even when taken within the prescribed period of time. Treatment initiated within 72 hours after unprotected intercourse reduces the risk of pregnancy by around 75% only.


Again, very true. When I was given the MAP the Doctor discussed with me the possibility that it might not work if I conceived and that such high doses of BCP's could cause birth defects as well.

(in reply to LadyAngelika)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: 60 Minutes Report on Plan B - 11/28/2005 9:41:47 PM   
maybemaybenot


Posts: 2817
Joined: 9/22/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: darkangel

Being from the UK -
I would be interested if officially (medical not church based info) RU487 is - in the USA - considered a MOP or an abortive.
If someone can help me with that, I would be grateful. Thanks.

Peace and Love




Darkangel

RU-486 is classified as an "abortifacient" here in the US. >>A substance that causes pregnancy to end prematurely and causes an abortion.


Abortive medications are a classification of medicines used to treat migranes headaches.

maybemaybenot

(in reply to darkinshadows)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: 60 Minutes Report on Plan B - 11/29/2005 7:57:07 AM   
candystripper


Posts: 3486
Joined: 11/1/2005
Status: offline
quote:

Ms. Candystripper,

Sorry if you miss understood me, but I meant that RU487 was the abortafaciant, and that the MAP or Plan B was what prevented conception. RU487 is only administered after a positive preganany test, where as high levels of estrogen (birth control pills aka what I have been refering to as the "Morning After Pill") or plan B is administered after unprotected sex (can be condom breakage, rape, whatever). Other abortafaciants include pennyroyal and Queen Anne's Lace.
Sorry that I was not clear.
I am wondering, does anyone know what the active ingrediant in Plan B is?

LaMaliche


Sir, what is the basis for Your assertions? Do You have a medical or scientific background -- what is it, may i ask?

Since no test exists to detect pregnancy within 72 hours of conception, i do not underrstand Your assertion that it only administered if a pregnnacy test is positive. My understanding ism prior to Plan B, RU487 was given -- offered -- to any rape victim or woman who had unprotected sex, to be taken within 72 hours. It brings on a period -- which acts as a spontaneous abortion if the woman is in fact pregnant -- and medical care is necessary to assure that no remanants of a pregnancy have been left unexpelled due to the danger of infection.

i do not know the chemical composition of Plan B, but i do know The New England Journal of Medicine, Nature and Science are all available online. i believe they are searchable for free, but reading a full article carries a modest cost.

candystripper

< Message edited by candystripper -- 11/29/2005 8:00:22 AM >

(in reply to LaMalinche)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: 60 Minutes Report on Plan B - 11/29/2005 8:04:54 AM   
candystripper


Posts: 3486
Joined: 11/1/2005
Status: offline 		Well, my edit function disappeared before i could fix the above post, so my apologies for a misspelt word or three.

candystriper

(in reply to candystripper)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: 60 Minutes Report on Plan B - 11/29/2005 8:24:46 AM   
candystripper


Posts: 3486
Joined: 11/1/2005
Status: offline
quote:

But a private business or organization has as much right to not offer or carry something as a person has to want it. They are a private business and have the right to not carry a medication that they feel terminates life just like they have the right to not do an actual abortion.

Wolf1020


Actually pharmacies are heavily regulated, as You can imagine. Whether the pharmacy is located in a drug store or a Walmart's, the same regulations apply. Under certain circumstances, a pharmacist can refuse to fill a valid script -- reasons having to do with patient safety. However, a religious belief that Plan B or RU487 is a form of abortion and abortion is bad does not qualify as a patient safety issue and all pharmacies are required to carry and dispense the drugs. According to the 60 Minutes report, Walmart's has decided to refuse to fill scripts for Plan B nation-wide; so if the FDA and other regulatory bodies have any backbone, that'll be a court case.

candustripper

< Message edited by candystripper -- 11/29/2005 8:25:30 AM >

(in reply to Wolf1020)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: 60 Minutes Report on Plan B - 11/29/2005 8:40:50 AM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MsIncognito

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

In Canada, Plan B can be given out by a pharmacist. If the woman goes to a pharmacist to get Plan B without a doctor's prescription, the pharmacist should take a moment aside with the woman and ask her questions regarding what happened as well as probe to find out if the woman knows how to protect herself in the future. Then the drug can be dispensed. Not only does this save time (Plan B has to be taken within a certain amount of time to be effective) but also saves a lot of money to our health care system.


All true unless a pharmacist refuses to dispense PlanB based on religious grounds. As I said before in a large city you'll have the inconvenience of having to go to another pharmacy as the worst case scenario. In the small town I lived in up north there was only one pharmacy. If they decided not to dispense PlanB for any reason every female in town was out of luck unless they were willing/able to drive 45-60 minutes to the next nearest town (even smaller than ours) in the hopes the pharmacist there would dispense it.

Ok, I never thought of that. Then again, I've never heard of it happening.

I mean I went to a catholic girl's school where I was taught the only forms of birth control acceptable in the eyes of god where abstinence and calendar methods, the latter only for married couples. Condoms, diaphragms, pills, jellies, sodomy (anal or oral) were all sins.

At that same catholic school, most of my friends were on the pill, including myself who used it to help regulate my acute dysmenorrhea.

So even though it was said to be a sin, I always thought that they turned a blind eye because they would rather have us sinning a little then teenage moms…

quote:


quote:


Now word to the wise, Plan B doesn't always work, even when taken within the prescribed period of time. Treatment initiated within 72 hours after unprotected intercourse reduces the risk of pregnancy by around 75% only.


Again, very true. When I was given the MAP the Doctor discussed with me the possibility that it might not work if I conceived and that such high doses of BCP's could cause birth defects as well.


I was told this too. Which is why when you take something like PlanB, you set in motion a process that you have to be willing to finish.

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to MsIncognito)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: 60 Minutes Report on Plan B - 11/29/2005 1:19:17 PM   
candystripper


Posts: 3486
Joined: 11/1/2005
Status: offline
quote:

Sorry about that Wolf1020, we all have our own ideas and beliefs don't we? Unlike some of the groups which are the subject of this thread, I am not trying to put my ideas over on anybody else. You may take or leave my ideas as you see fit.

BTW, I have every right to think Xtians are hilarious idiots. That's not bigoted. I support your right to have whatever idiotic and hilarious beliefs you want to maintain. Do I believe as you do? Good fucking god NO!!!

I may have to start a thread about your strange belief system, that might be fun. Kind of a test your knowledge thing...

Chaingang


Wolf1020 is a new friend of mine. i will return any salvo You try and shoot across His bow. Mind Your manners, please.

Friends don't let friends post drunk.

candystripper

(in reply to Chaingang)
Profile   Post #: 40
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