RE: Committed D/s relationships and playing with others

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MadRabbit -> RE: Committed D/s relationships and playing with others (9/11/2008 8:35:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Pyrrsefanie quote: ORIGINAL: MadRabbit Well, can you be in a commited relationship and go and see a movie with another man? Can you be in a committed relationship and have a drink with another man? How about dinner? It's not the activity itself, but rather the opinion of it. I still don't understand. Going to the movies with someone when you're in a committed relationship is a lot different than indulging in BDSM activities with them outside of your own relationship. How so? Because you or your lover would be going to the movies with someone platonic with no interest in a relationship? What if the context was changed to going to the movies with someone who had feelings for you or your lover and wanted to be with them in a relationship? It's not the action of going to the movies with someone, but rather your opinion of it. In one situation, it's viewed as solely something platonic and non-intimate and therefore not regarded as an issue, but if the action was done with someone who very much wanted to be intimate and be with your partner, then it's a different story. Try viewing "play" in the same light. If you had security in the fact that your partner was going out to play with someone for simply erotic enjoyment and was going to come home to you at the end of the night to continue to be with you in a loving relationship, then why does that action mean anything more than him going to the movies with someone for the mutual enjoyment of seeing the movie?

Pyrrsefanie -> RE: Committed D/s relationships and playing with others (9/11/2008 8:40:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MadRabbit Try viewing "play" in the same light. If you had security in the fact that your partner was going out to play with someone for simply erotic enjoyment and was going to come home to you at the end of the night to continue to be with you in a loving relationship, then why does that action mean anything more than him going to the movies with someone for the mutual enjoyment of seeing the movie? Ahhh, okay, I see where I'm getting confused -- I don't view play as just something platonic or for fun, I equate it with something that requires a good degree of affection and intimacy. Thanks for explaining it to me, I appreciate the help.

kyraofMists -> RE: Committed D/s relationships and playing with others (9/11/2008 8:44:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Pyrrsefanie How can you be in a "committed" relationship and play outside of it at the same time? Committed is not equivalent to exclusive. The three of us are committed to the relationship that we are in. To us that means we put the relationship first and we plan to spend the rest of our lives together. However, that does not mean that he does not enjoy playing with others or that he would not enjoy giving Alandra or I to someone else to be played. The activities that we engage in with other people does not have any bearing on our committment to each other. *edited to add that he will not engage in play with someone that he does not have some degree of affection and intimacy with. However, that still has no impact on his devotion and committment to our relationship. Knight's Kyra

Pyrrsefanie -> RE: Committed D/s relationships and playing with others (9/11/2008 8:49:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kyraofMists Committed is not equivalent to exclusive. The three of us are committed to the relationship that we are in. Kyra, I very much appreciated your view on the matter, just because I forget that it's not always one and one, sometimes it's one and one and one. Thank you very, very much for that valuable insight! It's interesting how many different relationship dynamics there really are out there. Of course that doesn't make any of them less special or less "correct" as long as nobody's being hurt.

susie -> RE: Committed D/s relationships and playing with others (9/12/2008 1:15:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LATEXBABY64 why do you get retro politcal on things this has nothing to do with me just case history you can see both sides of this if you stand non objectively instead of taking a typical liberial stance try taking a why approch more investigative you might see something did not before shrugs but thats ok :) Personally I tend to look at things objectively as I find it makes far more sense. Obviously from this and previous posts you have a HUGE issue with non monogamous relationships. That is fine. Nobody is asking you to take part in one. What you have to realise is that for some people it works. I am in a totally committed relationship where we both love each. But he has sex with other people. Not a relationship. Not cheating as I know what he is doing and when. I have no issues with it as I know that it is not the start of a relationship it is just sex. I also know that he is perfectly happy with our relationship and would do nothing to harm it. Remember because something does not work for you does not mean that it cannot work for others.

CallaFirestormBW -> RE: Committed D/s relationships and playing with others (9/12/2008 6:37:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Pyrrsefanie I still don't understand. Going to the movies with someone when you're in a committed relationship is a lot different than indulging in BDSM activities with them outside of your own relationship. Pyrrs... Some of us enjoy and celebrate having committed relationships and casual relationships at the same time -- and some of us are even cherish having multiple committed relationships at the same time. Many times I liken this to parenting -- when a second baby comes along, you don't forget about, neglect, or stop loving the first baby -- and as a young person, having LOT AND LOTS of 'best friends' is a good thing -- so why is it that, as grown adults, we have been so brainwashed that we can't manage that kind of open, dedicated, honest expression of love with other -adults-? Calla Firestorm

thetammyjo -> RE: Committed D/s relationships and playing with others (9/12/2008 8:48:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Pyrrsefanie quote: ORIGINAL: pinnipedster Just a question for those of you in what you consider to be committed D/s relationships: What are your rules for "playing" outside of the relationship? Everybody please forgive me for what I'm about to ask, 'cos I'm not trying to preach or say anybody is wrong or offend anyone, it's just an honest question because it confuses me... How can you be in a "committed" relationship and play outside of it at the same time? We've done it for 16 years a married couple. I see it much the same way as "How can a parent love more than one child?" Why do we expect parents to be able to have multiple loving relationships but not adults for other adults?

thetammyjo -> RE: Committed D/s relationships and playing with others (9/12/2008 8:54:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LATEXBABY64 you see you want to make it personal I am not going there i can but i am not becaues for one it is not my thread for two i have enough respect not to being typical critical of personal mistakes. SO if you want to get into my head space you beter go back to the dsmv 5 or go back to phsyciology 101 have a nice day :) You made this personal as soon as you claimed that my and others being poly personally affected you and then could not back it up. If objective facts don't back it up, that only leaves the personal as the reasons you have for feeling this way and being so hostile toward poly.

thetammyjo -> RE: Committed D/s relationships and playing with others (9/12/2008 8:57:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Pyrrsefanie quote: ORIGINAL: MadRabbit Well, can you be in a commited relationship and go and see a movie with another man? Can you be in a committed relationship and have a drink with another man? How about dinner? It's not the activity itself, but rather the opinion of it. I still don't understand. Going to the movies with someone when you're in a committed relationship is a lot different than indulging in BDSM activities with them outside of your own relationship. Not according to my mother-in-law before we became married. She was very suspicious of her son hanging out with his female friends after we started dating and then got engaged. The activities are the problem for commitment but your level and willingness to work on each relationship. One can be committed to various causes and people at any point in life. Why is sex or BDSM necessarily different?

Pyrrsefanie -> RE: Committed D/s relationships and playing with others (9/12/2008 9:13:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thetammyjo Not according to my mother-in-law before we became married. She was very suspicious of her son hanging out with his female friends after we started dating and then got engaged. The activities are the problem for commitment but your level and willingness to work on each relationship. One can be committed to various causes and people at any point in life. Why is sex or BDSM necessarily different? Well, I'm certainly grateful for the help I've been given in seeing things from the other side. Maybe it's still not my cup of tea, but as long as it's done with love, then I salute all of you who are able to have more than one loving and committed relationship, or have one committed and casual others, et cetera, et cetera. Really fascinating stuff, and kind of cheerful to know that there is so much love out there.

thetammyjo -> RE: Committed D/s relationships and playing with others (9/12/2008 9:47:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Pyrrsefanie quote: ORIGINAL: thetammyjo Not according to my mother-in-law before we became married. She was very suspicious of her son hanging out with his female friends after we started dating and then got engaged. The activities are the problem for commitment but your level and willingness to work on each relationship. One can be committed to various causes and people at any point in life. Why is sex or BDSM necessarily different? Well, I'm certainly grateful for the help I've been given in seeing things from the other side. Maybe it's still not my cup of tea, but as long as it's done with love, then I salute all of you who are able to have more than one loving and committed relationship, or have one committed and casual others, et cetera, et cetera. Really fascinating stuff, and kind of cheerful to know that there is so much love out there. I would completely agree that being poly is not for most people. It is a lot of work and it flies in the face of conventional society even more so than BDSM. I don't personal do poly because I can work harder though or I want to challenge society, I'm poly simply because I am. I was blessed to find two other men the same way so far and we have a very stable family.

RealSub58 -> RE: Committed D/s relationships and playing with others (9/12/2008 10:12:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thetammyjo quote: ORIGINAL: Pyrrsefanie Well, I'm certainly grateful for the help I've been given in seeing things from the other side. Maybe it's still not my cup of tea, but as long as it's done with love, then I salute all of you who are able to have more than one loving and committed relationship, or have one committed and casual others, et cetera, et cetera. Really fascinating stuff, and kind of cheerful to know that there is so much love out there. I would completely agree that being poly is not for most people. It is a lot of work and it flies in the face of conventional society even more so than BDSM. I don't personal do poly because I can work harder though or I want to challenge society, I'm poly simply because I am. I was blessed to find two other men the same way so far and we have a very stable family. Personally, just because we have an occasional sub male joining in play does not mean we are poly. It's not even swinging. Like someone said above, PLAY. We have a sand box and play in it ourselves. No one joins our sand box. Its ours. We built it, we enjoy our exclusivity. If someone comes into our sand box, they come by invitation only. They leave remembering how we had fun playing but they don't come back. I fail to see how this is poly or swinging. We never go to another sand box. The relationship was built upon values, principles, morals, personality and agreement on what our boundaries were and are. In regards to Pyrrsefanie writing the element of love = intimacy = playing with others, it just doesn't have to be and for us isn't. We don't play with another for love or for intimacy .... children invite others into their sand box because at that moment in time they want to share. Maybe the other child player becomes a friend, or life long platonic friend or eventually childhood sweethearts.... That is not us. We define the boundaries of our sandbox not by who and why one person plays there with us, but by the factor they will leave and never return. Yes, there are many ways to see this and as people, human beings, somehow our own judgments interject into life and we see things we want to judge. I think it is acceptance of others and understanding, as Pyrrsefanie so eloquently wrote. But don't label something someone else has....with words such as poly.

MmeGigs -> RE: Committed D/s relationships and playing with others (9/12/2008 12:25:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LATEXBABY64 great so we have reverted back to socialism Looks to me like you can't answer the question so you're dodging it by slapping a scary label on the situation. What does anything in this thread have to do with socialism? Many poly relationships and open marriages do not involve cohabitating and many communal living arrangements have nothing to do with polyamory, so even if your arguments about taxes and "supporting a herd" and all were supported by any actual evidence - and they're not, as folks have pointed out - you didn't answer the question that Tammy Jo asked and I re-asked. How do other folks' sexual and relationship preferences harm you? As adamant as you are that there is some actual harm being done to you, this shouldn't be that difficult a question.

thetammyjo -> RE: Committed D/s relationships and playing with others (9/12/2008 1:02:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RealSub58 quote: ORIGINAL: thetammyjo quote: ORIGINAL: Pyrrsefanie Well, I'm certainly grateful for the help I've been given in seeing things from the other side. Maybe it's still not my cup of tea, but as long as it's done with love, then I salute all of you who are able to have more than one loving and committed relationship, or have one committed and casual others, et cetera, et cetera. Really fascinating stuff, and kind of cheerful to know that there is so much love out there. I would completely agree that being poly is not for most people. It is a lot of work and it flies in the face of conventional society even more so than BDSM. I don't personal do poly because I can work harder though or I want to challenge society, I'm poly simply because I am. I was blessed to find two other men the same way so far and we have a very stable family. Personally, just because we have an occasional sub male joining in play does not mean we are poly. It's not even swinging. Like someone said above, PLAY. We have a sand box and play in it ourselves. No one joins our sand box. Its ours. We built it, we enjoy our exclusivity. If someone comes into our sand box, they come by invitation only. They leave remembering how we had fun playing but they don't come back. I fail to see how this is poly or swinging. We never go to another sand box. The relationship was built upon values, principles, morals, personality and agreement on what our boundaries were and are. In regards to Pyrrsefanie writing the element of love = intimacy = playing with others, it just doesn't have to be and for us isn't. We don't play with another for love or for intimacy .... children invite others into their sand box because at that moment in time they want to share. Maybe the other child player becomes a friend, or life long platonic friend or eventually childhood sweethearts.... That is not us. We define the boundaries of our sandbox not by who and why one person plays there with us, but by the factor they will leave and never return. Yes, there are many ways to see this and as people, human beings, somehow our own judgments interject into life and we see things we want to judge. I think it is acceptance of others and understanding, as Pyrrsefanie so eloquently wrote. But don't label something someone else has....with words such as poly. Who was I labeling as poly? I was labeling myself as far as I can tell and not talking about other ways that people have multiple partners. What an odd thing to get worked up about: How I label myself and agreeing it is not for everyone. By your post perhaps I should get offended because you are coupling poly with swinging in one sentence? No, I don't think you are saying that they are the same thing simply that they are two other ways that folks have multiple partners like you have them but call it "playing" I guess.

alittleevil -> RE: Committed D/s relationships and playing with others (9/12/2008 1:29:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pinnipedster Just a question for those of you in what you consider to be committed D/s relationships: What are your rules for "playing" outside of the relationship? Does the Dominant always get to do whatever s/he wants, while the sub remains exclusive? Or are there limits to even how far the Dominant can go in this respect? Are some subs not only allowed but sometimes required to serve others, sexually or otherwise? And who made the rules? Did the Dominant partner just decree how it would be, and the sub had the choice of accepting that or moving on? Or was it something negotiated between you? Greetings, Master does as he wishes. He has play and casual sexual relationships with others, and some that are not so casual. It isn't my place (or my inclination, truly) to dictate or to mind where he takes his pleasures. As his property, my activities are controlled entirely by him. Honestly, it was me, early in our conversations that indicated to him that i did not expect sexual exclusivity (monogamy just doesn't mean much to me), but i don't see this as me "giving" him permission or negotiation--i was just being open about how i viewed both monogamy and my place as slave. Best, aj

hereyesruponyou -> RE: Committed D/s relationships and playing with others (9/12/2008 2:22:47 PM)
I just don't see how sex or playing relates exclusively to a committed relationship. I won't play with someone i don't like (why would i or anyone else?) because it's not fun, and i want to have fun when i play. I've played with people i barely know but who intrigued me and we both enjoyed it and afterwards sometimes stayed in touch sometimes not. Why make more of it than it was? It was fun. On the other side I had a committed relationship for 17 years where during the last several sex was rare and then pretty much non-existent due to health issues. It didn't make the relationship less important. So we couldn't do one thing we enjoyed doing together...no big deal we found other ways to have fun. My loss of that partner was no less because we weren't sexually active. I am lucky now to have someone i want a committed relationship with who also compliments my kink and can have sexual fun with. But our committment is deep enough that we can "have fun" with others without it threatening our relationship. I think all the different permutations of relationships of people on CM are facinating but none of them have any impact on me or mine unless we ever choose to intereact personally...

MadRabbit -> RE: Committed D/s relationships and playing with others (9/12/2008 6:33:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MmeGigs What does anything in this thread have to do with socialism? Because only a damn commie would dare to point out the complete inaccuracy and falsness of so called "historical facts" that are being used to support an argument! [:D]

LATEXBABY64 -> RE: Committed D/s relationships and playing with others (9/12/2008 10:16:46 PM)
well what i do have a issues with is people that flip flop. They water down the meaning of something grand to something stupid that just cause it suits what THEY think it should be not the rest of the world. But self distructive behavior is something that i am not going to stand in the away of. ( for example if your with a dom domme just cause you love them and your into monogo and they are not do not expect anyone to feel sorry for you when you do get cheated on. and some think it is ok to be lied to thats stupid what if they have some kinda of std or something thats ok how stupid is that. I am telling you do not let people make your c hoices for you. and onhere forsure The truth is more about self discovery. and intragration into a greater whole of who what when where but its all on them no skin my nose lol

susie -> RE: Committed D/s relationships and playing with others (9/12/2008 10:43:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LATEXBABY64 well what i do have a issues with is people that flip flop. They water down the meaning of something grand to something stupid that just cause it suits what THEY think it should be not the rest of the world. But self distructive behavior is something that i am not going to stand in the away of. ( for example if your with a dom domme just cause you love them and your into monogo and they are not do not expect anyone to feel sorry for you when you do get cheated on. and some think it is ok to be lied to thats stupid what if they have some kinda of std or something thats ok how stupid is that. I am telling you do not let people make your c hoices for you. and onhere forsure The truth is more about self discovery. and intragration into a greater whole of who what when where but its all on them no skin my nose lol When did I ask anyone to feel sorry for me? When did someone cheat on me? What you will not understand because you are so blinkered in your attitude is that we are in a perfectly happy loving relationship. He has sex and plays with other people. I always know what he is doing so it is NOT CHEATING. Yes I am monogamous. He is not. Why is that a problem? You don't like it. So what. That does not make it wrong. Personally I think men in latex look disgusting, but it is your choice to wear it and your life so I would never tell you it is wrong just because I don't like it. Stop telling people they are wrong just because you do not like it.

MistressPav -> RE: Committed D/s relationships and playing with others (9/12/2008 10:54:05 PM)
What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

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