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Do We Love Ourselfs To Much ? - 11/28/2005 12:56:11 AM

RoseBlush

Posts: 1
Joined: 8/29/2005
Status: offline

Recently i started wondering why people hurt others and why we let others abuse us, not the fun kind, or the kind we may want and agree to, but the down right not agreed on kind.Being me i had to find out so i went to my book store and found some very interesting reading. Apparently when we disregard another persons well being, needs, feelings,ect. it's called being a narcissist. Where as i knew a little about what that word meant i didn't know how bad it could be. There was someone i knew "once appon a time", lol, that i thought would be a better person after they learned to trust people, i couldn't have been more wrong because this person is a malignant narcissist, in other words not just insenitive but totaly and completely uncaring about other living beings.To the malignant narcissist other people are just tools to use in order to keep their false self image alive, which they must do at all cost,at the expense of anything or anyone that does not fit their definition of perfect.That said these narcissist are charming in the extreme, believe it or not,so apparently that's why even intelligent people fall for this crap, if they say their "i'm sorry's", or "i love you's" prettily enough we cave even though our subconscious is screaming at us to run, people who actually care about others want to be fair, give the benefit of the doubt to those we love, or even to strangers.It all seems to have something to do with our childhoods, not feeling safe, being abused, blah, blah, we've all heard this stuff before, but regardless of why narcissist are this way it lead me to look at myself and those around me, it occurred to me that we all have a bit of the narcissist in us, some are just deeper in the "doo" than others. So although i find that "can't we all just get along" stuff rather simple minded i think i'll go out and commit a random act of kindness today,Smiles, Roseblush

Post #: 1

RE: Do We Love Ourselfs To Much ? - 11/28/2005 2:16:24 AM

slavejali

Posts: 2918
Status: offline

i wonder what brought this topic up for you RoseBlush, its an interesting first post.

We are breeding a selfish society, where our own personal goals and agendas and dreams are said to be the most important thing. The thing is, if everyones personal goals and agendas and dreams are the most important thing, we got a whole world full of people each thinking they are the center of the universe and everything else revolves around them. This is bound to cause pain and conflict, power struggles and pretty much yucky stuff.

i like the american indian thought, there is no "me" i" or "mine" only "us". Well i shouldnt just say that is american indian, getting rid of the "me" "i" and "mine" is part of eastern teachings too.

"Random act of kindness hey" sounds like a good plan to me.

(in reply to RoseBlush)

Post #: 2

RE: Do We Love Ourselfs To Much ? - 11/28/2005 4:21:41 AM

sunshine333

Posts: 203
Joined: 8/16/2005
Status: offline

yes ... there are many teachings and practises out there reinforcing the idea of "no self." it is one of the aspects of my spiritual practise that i try to incorporate into my slavery. we seem to cling so tightly to this false sense of self that it becomes cumbersome baggage that we carry with us. when letting go of that load makes us much lighter people ... much more pleasant to be around. it's really very simple.

i have a feeling, rose, that you are venting ... which i think is appropriate. and good for you for turning your experience around and not only learning from it ... but then to put what you've learned into action! was it ghandi that said, " we need to be the change we wish to see in the world." ?

humbly,
sunshine

(in reply to slavejali)

Post #: 3

RE: Do We Love Ourselfs To Much ? - 11/28/2005 4:29:44 AM

pandoravampire

Posts: 374
Joined: 12/6/2004
Status: offline

Nacissistic personality disorder, is thankfully, extreemly rare and your very unlikely to of ever met one.

my personal 2 fave philosophies;

people are either takers or givers, only hang with givers.

do to others, as you'd have done to you.

simple.

(in reply to sunshine333)

Post #: 4

RE: Do We Love Ourselfs To Much ? - 11/28/2005 4:42:10 AM

candystripper

Posts: 3486
Joined: 11/1/2005
Status: offline

quote:

We are breeding a selfish society, where our own personal goals and agendas and dreams are said to be the most important thing. The thing is, if everyones personal goals and agendas and dreams are the most important thing, we got a whole world full of people each thinking they are the center of the universe and everything else revolves around them. This is bound to cause pain and conflict, power struggles and pretty much yucky stuff.

slavejali

What a wise woman you are; why aren't you around here so we could hang out?

i have two comments: yes, in some areas of society, breakdowns have occured. Prisioners are coddled in environments much more comfortable than my dorm at college. Children can no longer be taught to respect and obey their elders; now we must start as soon as possible to warn them about "bad touching". Few sensible people leave the homes unlocked or pick up a hitchhicker. Etc, etc, etc.

Time marches on; and i think more change happened more rapidly to my generation that to any other before; and it seems the rate of change will only accelerate. During the 1950's, the US -- and probably some other nations -- enjoyed a "bubble" of financial well-being that is unlikely to recur. Any reasonably intelligent adult can see we are in a recession...and we tetter on the brink of a depression IMO. Bush's presidency has been disastorous for the US. And each new proposal he makes -- such as privatizing social security -- just makes me shudder.

When times are uncertain and people are suffering, the social fabric gets stretched. In the US, Bush's policies have been very, very hard on the middle class, particularly with respect to the stock exchange and pension plans. My generation faces the loss of a lifetime of savings and promises by employers regarding pension benefits.

So i tend to see the glass as half-full. The fact that auto makers are having some trouble moving new SUV's with gas nearly $3 a gallon isn't a bad thing. We must end our dependence on foreign oil; we must stop throwing up gases and increasing the hole in the ozone layer; we must convert to fuels which can be sold cheaply, easily and without environmental damage.

Change is usually met with fear, but i have confidence in the next generation and in the inherent wealth and capitalism of the US. We will recover economically and the middle class will not disappear.

candystripper

< Message edited by candystripper -- 11/28/2005 4:44:24 AM >

(in reply to slavejali)

Post #: 5

RE: Do We Love Ourselfs To Much ? - 11/28/2005 4:47:57 AM

candystripper

Posts: 3486
Joined: 11/1/2005
Status: offline

quote:

we seem to cling so tightly to this false sense of self that it becomes cumbersome baggage that we carry with us.

sunshine333

i'm not acquainted with these concepts; is there a primer you could recommend? Certainly sounds interesting.

candystripper

(in reply to sunshine333)

Post #: 6

RE: Do We Love Ourselfs To Much ? - 11/28/2005 5:15:30 AM

Quivver

Posts: 1953
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline

You may find this thread interesting............
http://www.collarchat.com/m_48549/mpage_1/key_narcissist/tm.htm#51014

_____________________________

The problem with communication ... is the illusion that it has been accomplished. ~George Bernard Shaw

(in reply to RoseBlush)

Post #: 7

RE: Do We Love Ourselfs To Much ? - 11/28/2005 5:48:10 AM

IronBear

Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline

At a very basic level you have to love yourself in order to love others. It is the way self love manifests which can be a problem or a blessing for others.

Yes we have brought up and are bringing up a selfish and undiscliplined or carinf generation. The writting was on the wall when the TV was bombarded with such adds aimed at youth that: "Ya gatta have ATTITUDE" and films clips encouraging agression, as well as the slogan: "I want it and I want it NOW!". This again is encouraginmg instant gratification and not working towards achieving the required goals.. For a long time I've watched the Pagan and esp the Wiccan scene go down the tubes with various bimbetts (male and female) producing badly written rewrires of excelerntly written source material written by authors who had a life time of practical experience and study into the Art Magickal. Now many young folks want to read two books and set up their own groups ignoring the dangers and value of being trained with people who have been there for a long time. Still as a few people on my local scene will say that it's a new world and it's time to sweet out all the past ideas and values and make everything anew.... I have no practical solutions. I do have faith in a number of the youth who have their heards screwed on and can see the values iof both arguments and who do look for guidence and co-operation with those who are happy to work for goal's and help their neighbours.. They I believe are our future.

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to Quivver)

Post #: 8

RE: Do We Love Ourselfs To Much ? - 11/28/2005 6:24:30 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

Narcissistic personality disorder, as already pointed out, is actually very rare.

Just like obsessive compulsive disorder as an actual life disorder, is fairly rare.

However, most people exhibit SOME symptoms of all personality disorders to a greater or lesser extent. These begin as normal coping mechanisms of stress and anxiety.

There IS definitely a thread of dominants out there who have narcissistic patterns and perspectives. It would behoove submissives to learn these characteristics and be watchful for them.

(in reply to RoseBlush)

Post #: 9

RE: Do We Love Ourselfs To Much ? - 11/28/2005 8:44:40 AM

truesub4u

Posts: 2949
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

There IS definitely a thread of dominants out there who have narcissistic patterns and perspectives. It would behoove submissives to learn these characteristics and be watchful for them.

So much easier said than done for some.

quote:

That said these narcissist are charming in the extreme, believe it or not,so apparently that's why even intelligent people fall for this crap, if they say their "i'm sorry's", or "i love you's" prettily enough we cave even though our subconscious is screaming at us to run, people who actually care about others want to be fair, give the benefit of the doubt to those we

And this is why it's so much easier said than done for some

Jessica

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 10

RE: Do We Love Ourselfs To Much ? - 11/28/2005 8:47:59 AM

truesub4u

Posts: 2949
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline

Don't you just hate when i a posr screws up on you... LOL

The quote was suppose to be.........

To the malignant narcissist other people are just tools to use in order to keep their false self image alive, which they must do at all cost,at the expense of anything or anyone that does not fit their definition of perfect.That said these narcissist are charming in the extreme, believe it or not,so apparently that's why even intelligent people fall for this crap, if they say their "i'm sorry's", or "i love you's" prettily enough we cave even though our subconscious is screaming at us to run, people who actually care about others want to be fair, give the benefit of the doubt to those we love, or even to strangers.

Sorry about that...

Jessica

(in reply to truesub4u)

Post #: 11

RE: Do We Love Ourselfs To Much ? - 11/28/2005 8:51:57 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: truesub4u
And this is why it's so much easier said than done for some
Jessica

Most important things usually are.

(in reply to truesub4u)

Post #: 12

RE: Do We Love Ourselfs To Much ? - 11/28/2005 8:57:45 AM

KatyLied

Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline

As far as why we let others abuse us.......Some people are emotional masochists. I don't know if it's low self-esteem that drives those feelings, or a deep need to be loved, regardless of the situation.

_____________________________

“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 13

RE: Do We Love Ourselfs To Much ? - 11/28/2005 8:59:27 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

As far as why we let others abuse us.......Some people are emotional masochists. I don't know if it's low self-esteem that drives those feelings, or a deep need to be loved, regardless of the situation.

Oh there are as many answers as there are people experiencing it.

One common answer is that people actually learn and teach themselves to be happy in this situation. It's all they've ever known. It's all they know how to cope with. They don't know any other way to form relationships if they aren't dysfunctional and chaotic.

(in reply to KatyLied)

Post #: 14

RE: Do We Love Ourselfs To Much ? - 11/28/2005 9:26:39 AM

truesub4u

Posts: 2949
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Most important things usually are.

hmmmm,

guess i'm just not as wise as you are

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 15

RE: Do We Love Ourselfs To Much ? - 11/28/2005 9:33:45 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: truesub4u
guess i'm just not as wise as you are

Not sure what brings you to that conclusion?

Unless you meant it as a snarky passive aggressive comment to try and implicate me as a know it all. It kinda sounds like it might be that. But I could be wrong.

(in reply to truesub4u)

Post #: 16

RE: Do We Love Ourselfs To Much ? - 11/28/2005 9:45:13 AM

Sunshine119

Posts: 611
Joined: 8/8/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: pandoravampire

Nacissistic personality disorder, is thankfully, extreemly rare and your very unlikely to of ever met one.

my personal 2 fave philosophies;

people are either takers or givers, only hang with givers.

do to others, as you'd have done to you.

simple.

Personality disorders are alot more common than we would like to believe. New studies are showing, in fact, that when you add them all together they may be the most common form of emotional disorders.

Anecdotally, I have come across more Borderline Personality Disorders among Dommes than I would like to count. Sometimes pretty scarry!

(in reply to pandoravampire)

Post #: 17

RE: Do We Love Ourselfs To Much ? - 11/28/2005 9:55:05 AM

veronicaofML

Posts: 1317
Joined: 11/19/2005
From: from iowa..now in wisconsin
Status: offline

Just like obsessive compulsive disorder as an actual life disorder, is fairly rare.

However, most people exhibit SOME symptoms of all personality disorders to a greater or lesser extent. These begin as normal coping mechanisms of stress and anxiety.
--------

uh yeah....one of the issues "I" deal with.
o.c.d. --p.t.s.d.--paranoid personality disorder coupled with persecution complex...

all that "childhood abuse" thingie........52 and still dealing with shit...

take care
best wishes

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 18

RE: Do We Love Ourselfs To Much ? - 11/28/2005 4:39:12 PM

ZenrageTheKeeper

Posts: 237
Joined: 6/26/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: candystripper

quote:

We are breeding a selfish society, where our own personal goals and agendas and dreams are said to be the most important thing. The thing is, if everyones personal goals and agendas and dreams are the most important thing, we got a whole world full of people each thinking they are the center of the universe and everything else revolves around them. This is bound to cause pain and conflict, power struggles and pretty much yucky stuff.

slavejali

What a wise woman you are; why aren't you around here so we could hang out?

i have two comments: yes, in some areas of society, breakdowns have occured. Prisioners are coddled in environments much more comfortable than my dorm at college. Children can no longer be taught to respect and obey their elders; now we must start as soon as possible to warn them about "bad touching". Few sensible people leave the homes unlocked or pick up a hitchhicker. Etc, etc, etc.

Time marches on; and i think more change happened more rapidly to my generation that to any other before; and it seems the rate of change will only accelerate. During the 1950's, the US -- and probably some other nations -- enjoyed a "bubble" of financial well-being that is unlikely to recur. Any reasonably intelligent adult can see we are in a recession...and we tetter on the brink of a depression IMO. Bush's presidency has been disastorous for the US. And each new proposal he makes -- such as privatizing social security -- just makes me shudder.

When times are uncertain and people are suffering, the social fabric gets stretched. In the US, Bush's policies have been very, very hard on the middle class, particularly with respect to the stock exchange and pension plans. My generation faces the loss of a lifetime of savings and promises by employers regarding pension benefits.

So i tend to see the glass as half-full. The fact that auto makers are having some trouble moving new SUV's with gas nearly $3 a gallon isn't a bad thing. We must end our dependence on foreign oil; we must stop throwing up gases and increasing the hole in the ozone layer; we must convert to fuels which can be sold cheaply, easily and without environmental damage.

Change is usually met with fear, but i have confidence in the next generation and in the inherent wealth and capitalism of the US. We will recover economically and the middle class will not disappear.

candystripper

I find that this world has been plenty selfish for a long time and its only now, in the middle of the information age, that we see just how far-spread the damage is. iu believe the problem stems from monotheism. People have been taught for centuries the invalid notion that "my one true god is on my one true side and therefore everyone else is wrong by default." This kind of dogma just breeds the hateful selfishness that seems to be reaching an all new high as people are learning there are all sorts of people on the internet that they simply must be better than by default.

As for social conservatives in this country, all conservativism in the USA is based in a fear of inferiority. The fear of inferiority reaches so deep into their being that they can not even be seen as equals to some people because to do so would push themselves as one step closer to possibly being found inferior. This is why social conservatives will do anything to keep themselves above anyone else who they deem as inferior by social, economic, religious or political philosophy. For example, government programs like welfare, food stamps, and social security as well as laws concerning regulation, anti-trust legistlation and minimum wage balances people and organizations out on economic levels and therefore social conservatives are naturally against them.

The same is true for religion and why social conservatives can't handle organizations like the ACLU defending the civil liberties of everyone or socially and why minorities literally need to go to war everytime before there is actual social change made. Or regionally. One of the things that makes me loathe social conservatives so much is how they use term - that is supposed to mean brotherhood - like patriotism and twist into a hate crime just so white people on one side of an invisible line can hate white people on the other side of the invisible line.

And as far as the BDSM lifestyle is concerned, social conservativism is not Dominant behavior. It is simply schoolyard bullying in place of true responsible leadership.

(in reply to candystripper)

Post #: 19

RE: Do We Love Ourselfs To Much ? - 11/28/2005 5:03:05 PM

MHOO314

Posts: 3628
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline

At the end of the day, we are merely visitors, passersby to the universe--we come and we go, we do not stay, all our greed, jealousy, selfishness, hate--gains us no more time and makes our current time laughable--loving gains us no more time, but makes our time peaceful and is hopefully a pebble in the water----

_____________________________

SLUTS: Southern Ladies Under Tremendous Stress...

Mistress Hathor

(in reply to RoseBlush)

Post #: 20

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