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RE: USA Today poll: McCain/Palin have 10-point lead - 9/8/2008 7:36:50 AM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

      Oh.  And Palin scares the hell out him.
       


You'd have to be a fool not to be wary of a Sith .


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RE: USA Today poll: McCain/Palin have 10-point lead - 9/8/2008 7:40:10 AM   
thishereboi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: proudsub

AOL did an unscientific poll and last i saw McCain was leading 55-38% with over 685,000 responses.
http://news.aol.com/elections/article/where-do-you-stand/162777?icid=200100397x1209077666x1200490190


So does that mean McCain is leading or does that mean AOL has more repulican subscribers? I never could understand how the polls worked.

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RE: USA Today poll: McCain/Palin have 10-point lead - 9/8/2008 7:44:14 AM   
thishereboi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

"Real change with a real woman," read one sign at a Wisconsin rally. "Hurricane Sarah leaves liberals spinning," cried another.

I always thought change and conservatism are a contradiction in terms.

No doubt she does have her fans amongst pro-life, moralist, no sex education, puritan conservatives but they aren't the only Americans that have the vote.


Yes and she also has fans amongst the pro-choice, non-moralist, pro-sex-ed, non-puritan conservatives.....I am so glad everyone gets the vote.

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RE: USA Today poll: McCain/Palin have 10-point lead - 9/8/2008 7:45:29 AM   
thishereboi


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Status: offline 		Beware the dark side.....

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RE: USA Today poll: McCain/Palin have 10-point lead - 9/8/2008 7:59:20 AM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

"Real change with a real woman," read one sign at a Wisconsin rally. "Hurricane Sarah leaves liberals spinning," cried another.

I always thought change and conservatism are a contradiction in terms.

No doubt she does have her fans amongst pro-life, moralist, no sex education, puritan conservatives but they aren't the only Americans that have the vote.


Yes and she also has fans amongst the pro-choice, non-moralist, pro-sex-ed, non-puritan conservatives.....I am so glad everyone gets the vote.


Well it does make sense to vote against ones beliefs.

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RE: USA Today poll: McCain/Palin have 10-point lead - 9/8/2008 8:00:48 AM   
SilverMark


Posts: 3457
Joined: 5/9/2007
Status: offline 		Wouldn't get too far ahead of Myself in either direction....A semi-conservative friend of Mine(he is really, I think neither conservative or liberal but, bright none the less) linked Me to a sight that tracks all of the major polls. As an average over the time period that the Gallup polls show they show an average of  of McCain by 1.2%
Although I am by far a Democrat I was none to excited by last weeks polls nor this weeks...In this election, a week seems to be a very LONG time. Gallup's other poll shows a much smaller lead for McCain than the 10% shown with USA today. I do believe that Obama has problems, but, not insurmountable and I wouldn't be planning an inauguration party for either just yet. Firm, to say that the John McCain I saw speak the other night can eat anyone alive in a debate is just a bit of an over-statement.
But as much as you believe that McCain could I believe he couldn't both just opinions and the matter will be settled soon enough.

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RE: USA Today poll: McCain/Palin have 10-point lead - 9/8/2008 8:01:29 AM   
Sanity


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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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McCain is a lot more of a centrist than Obama will ever be


quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

Well it does make sense to vote against ones beliefs.


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RE: USA Today poll: McCain/Palin have 10-point lead - 9/8/2008 8:15:53 AM   
Mercnbeth


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~ Fast Reply ~
 
Anyone who did any serious background reading or looked to find any substance to Senator Obama would know he and his candidacy were media driven. He is the political equivalent of a 'shooting star'. His 'rock band' finale in Denver will be looked back upon as his high water mark; short and long term that sermon from Mt Olympus hurt him. He had already established his 'pop-star' persona. To win over those who didn't want that image for their President, he should have set up a Presidential stage.  

But the reason he and his campaign don't have the 'legs' of a Hollywood blockbuster go deeper. Some voters in this country actually take voting for a President seriously. They look beyond the news coming from the campaign. In Senator Obama's case his resume doesn't represent a 'Middle American's' version of Presidential qualifications. Forget "experience", forget accomplishments; Senator Obama's record speaks for itself. The vote he cast most often in the Senate was 'present'. He did so nearly 150 times. The only purpose can be to not want to be committed to any position. That in itself would disqualify any candidate from getting my commitment for a vote. The rest of his history; disasociation with long term relationships to shed baggage, injecting 'race' though the use of the family who raised him, and his inability to communicate without a prompter driven script, even before the "...my Muslim faith" gaff; show how he should not be given the reins of this country. I don't know which Barrack Obama I'd get if I voted for him. The Obama of his books or the Obama of his campaign. Anyone who reads them will appreciate that they are two very different people and philosophies. Were he to win I would be concerned that 'present' be the 'buzz-word' of his administration as it was in his Senate tenure; with the real power coming from those whose agenda is socialism and the establishment of a 'nanny' government.

The sad thing is, only the Democrats can put up a candidate who will lose after eight years of irresponsible spending of tax dollars and American blood directed by disconnected leadership. Then again, their majority in Congress has gotten the 'approval rating' for them as a whole in single digits. However maybe it will sting less to long term Democratic apologists because Senator McCain is as Republican as JFK was a Democrat considered in today's terms. (Reference: "Ask not what your Country can do for you..."quote)Senator McCain will placate the PACS and following his past ambitions, further remove the 'average citizen' from the elective process. The wages of US citizens will be further eroded by the 'legalization' of criminal workers and their companies. Governor Palin is a distraction from the reality of what Senator McCain represents and the administration he will install in Washington. His rhetoric about including Democrats into his cabinet should enlighten those still not convinced that there is a two party system in the US.

As I thought when the party choices were becoming obvious, Senator McCain will win in a landslide not seen since Reagan II. From a pragmatic business perspective that will be fine with me. I have no desire to live under an administration whose goal is a Socialist economic model where more that 50% of my earnings will be used to fund failure. However, intellectually I am disappointed that there wasn't a better choice.

It will be sad if the failure of the Obama campaign is seen as a racist decision. I've seen the stories coming out of Philly promising "war" should he lose.
quote:

If McCain wins, look for a full-fledged race and class war, fueled by a deflated and depressed country, soaring crime, homelessness - and hopelessness! Source: http://www.philly.com/dailynews/opinion/20080902_Fatimah_Ali__We_need_Obama__not_4_more_years_of_George_Bush.html  
It isn't Obama's race that is projected currently to loose - it is Senator Obama.

Me - I'll be voting for some third party candidate to be named later.

< Message edited by Mercnbeth -- 9/8/2008 8:26:57 AM >

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RE: USA Today poll: McCain/Palin have 10-point lead - 9/8/2008 8:20:28 AM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


McCain is a lot more of a centrist than Obama will ever be


quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

Well it does make sense to vote against ones beliefs.



I don't know what is right, left or centre in American politics. As I pointed out earlier in this thread when I mentioned Obama's position on the political spectrum I was referring to a European perception which would put Obama as centre right, McCain on the right and Palin off to the right in some never never land.

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RE: USA Today poll: McCain/Palin have 10-point lead - 9/8/2008 8:22:53 AM   
LaTigresse


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

     Oh.  And Palin scares the hell out him.
      


You'd have to be a fool not to be wary of a Sith .



I am going to go out on a limb and say that something is going to come up, something major, that will make the McCain/Palin campaign implode dramatically.

Also, we've not seen any major debates yet. I think they will be very very important.


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RE: USA Today poll: McCain/Palin have 10-point lead - 9/8/2008 8:37:49 AM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

I am going to go out on a limb and say that something is going to come up, something major, that will make the McCain/Palin campaign implode dramatically.

Also, we've not seen any major debates yet. I think they will be very very important.



About your first point, I hope the nefarious calculations behind Palin's nomination are revealed to the public for what they are: complete disregard by GOP execs for the wellbeing of this country and for the rest of the world, and a shameless marketing coup .

Your second point is spot on: it would be illuminating to see the bulldog with lipstick talk without a speech writer scribbling frantically on her behalf  : I'm sure her bark is far worse than her bite.

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RE: USA Today poll: McCain/Palin have 10-point lead - 9/8/2008 8:39:52 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline 		ce
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

~ Fast Reply ~
 
Anyone who did any serious background reading or looked to find any substance to Senator Obama would know he and his candidacy were media driven. He is the political equivalent of a 'shooting star'. His 'rock band' finale in Denver will be looked back upon as his high water mark; short and long term that sermon from Mt Olympus hurt him. He had already established his 'pop-star' persona. To win over those who didn't want that image for their President, he should have set up a Presidential stage.  


You could say the same of Palin who surely could not have been plucked out of the air for her looks and speaking ability. Surely she was chosen for her sound ideas?


ce
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
As I thought when the party choices were becoming obvious, Senator McCain will win in a landslide not seen since Reagan II. From a pragmatic business perspective that will be fine with me. I have no desire to live under an administration whose goal is a Socialist economic model where more that 50% of my earnings will be used to fund failure. However intellectually I am disappointed that there wasn't a better choice.


The percentage burden of taxation is irrelevent, what matters is the spending power of ones personal income after taxation. Thatcher often used this fraudulent argument, several times pointing out that Swedes and Danes and just about every other European paid higher taxes than Brits. However, what she conveniently left out was that even after paying higher taxes than Brits, they (Swedes etc) had better health and education systems, more social mobility and even after that, were personally far richer than Brits.


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RE: USA Today poll: McCain/Palin have 10-point lead - 9/8/2008 8:44:09 AM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverMark

Firm, to say that the John McCain I saw speak the other night can eat anyone alive in a debate is just a bit of an over-statement.

But as much as you believe that McCain could I believe he couldn't both just opinions and the matter will be settled soon enough.


Silver,

My "eaten alive at the debates" means that I have seen a lot of indications that Obama doesn't think fast on his feet, and can get discombobulated and start making gaffes.

I think McCain is aware of this(!!), and will be prepared, and able to take advantage of these, so that Obama looks even worse ... and he won't be able to overcome it.

I don't dislike Obama. I've even considered voting for him (and conversely, I don't particularly like McCain, and have considered NOT voting for him).

But when it comes to live, on the spot debates, I think Obama is simply outclassed, based on what I've seen so far.

I could be wrong, and perhaps McCain is the one that will come out second best. I'll admit that's possible as McCain has his own problems.

But if I were a betting man, I'd bet against the Big O.

Firm


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RE: USA Today poll: McCain/Palin have 10-point lead - 9/8/2008 8:48:28 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline 		She did fine when her teleprompter went down.

Obama though? Not so much.

quote:

Your second point is spot on: it would be illuminating to see the bulldog with lipstick talk without a speech writer scribbling frantically on her behalf







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RE: USA Today poll: McCain/Palin have 10-point lead - 9/8/2008 8:54:41 AM   
Shawn1066


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Status: offline 		Why do people get on Sara Palin for having a speechwriter?  All politicians do.  And, it's important to remember, that her teleprompter broke less than halfway through her speech and she was able to hold it together.  She's far from the helpless, clueless woman who's just around to garner votes that some people seem to think she is.

DV's Fox

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RE: USA Today poll: McCain/Palin have 10-point lead - 9/8/2008 9:12:28 AM   
Mercnbeth


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quote:

You could say the same of Palin who surely could not have been plucked out of the air for her looks and speaking ability. Surely she was chosen for her sound ideas?
MC, Two points; she is not leading the ticket, Governor Palin is a distraction as I stated in the post you replied.

However by your comment "you could say the same" you agree with Senator Obama's empty suit image? How does that, taken as fact, support an Obama vote or his candidacy? 

quote:

The percentage burden of taxation is irrelevant, what matters is the spending power of ones personal income after taxation.
No it isn't - not even because you say so. Thatcher was working under different rules. The tort system alone disqualifies comparison, as does the existing 'expectation' of cradle to grave nanny care. Unless you are willing to totally eliminate the bureaucracy and expectations of US citizens compared to the UK the amount of total tax paid is very relevant. For example, not everyone got mortgage payment relief, not everyone got an 'economic stimulus' check; only those deemed 'worthy'. Not everyone works for the US government (yet?), not everyone works for a union (teachers for instance) that requires an acceptance of failure with payments coming from those succeeding.

Also don't limit your perception of taxes to income and/or sales. Remember the other taxes we pay. Real Estate, gas, vehicle registration, fees paid for government services. All those and the aforementioned sales taxes, State & city, are paid with after taxed income. Add them together and many more than realize are already in the 50-60% tax bracket; ironically, inversely proportional to income. Meaning the less you make, the more percentage of your income you pay especially if you live in a rental. Now before you go off wanting anything from universal health care to guaranteed college tuition, remember they will all come PLUS what you are already paying. Your Federally allowed net income will be less - locally you'll be lucky to pay the same. Considering that many businesses will maneuver to pay less or not at all of any tax change, and no economic stimulus check will make it right. Take one cornerstone of the Obama platform, capital gains. It is estimated that the US Stock market will lose 25 % of its value the day after the election; not just for the 'rich', but for everyone relying on a 401K, or whose union pension fund relies on one.

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RE: USA Today poll: McCain/Palin have 10-point lead - 9/8/2008 9:13:39 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
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Status: offline 		I don't think ANYone that has been following the news thinks she is helpless or stupid. Quite the opposite. I do think she has over estimated herself and that, is very dangerous.

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My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: USA Today poll: McCain/Palin have 10-point lead - 9/8/2008 9:16:03 AM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

Remember the other taxes we pay. Real Estate, gas, vehicle registration, fees paid for government services. All those and the aforementioned sales taxes, State & city, are paid with after taxed income. Add them together and many more than realize are already in the 50-60% tax bracket; ironically, inversely proportional to income.



If this is true, US citizens probably pay more tax than people living in European social democratic systems many on this board find abhorent.

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RE: USA Today poll: McCain/Palin have 10-point lead - 9/8/2008 9:27:31 AM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

She did fine when her teleprompter went down.

Obama though? Not so much.



Oh yeah, you believed that broken teleprompter story then? You really swallow everything that's coming out of Fox News. They tell you something, and hey presto! It becomes fact  .

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RE: USA Today poll: McCain/Palin have 10-point lead - 9/8/2008 9:29:55 AM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shawn1066
that her teleprompter broke less than halfway through her speech


It certainly did not. You can research the truth yourself, if you are ever interested in pesky little details like that. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=palin+teleprompter+goes+down&aq=f&oq=

Let me tell you something though: there are more important Republican lies going on than ridiculous ones about teleprompters.



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