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RE: USA Today poll: McCain/Palin have 10-point lead - 9/8/2008 4:13:22 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59
Still to soon to say.

Wow - 59, is this a Democratic Party campaign or a remake of "Panic In the Streets"?
quote:

Ask someone if they`d vote for Palin after knowing she fired a librarian while trying to ban books at the public library

Verified FALSE by Snopes:  http://www.snopes.com/politics/palin/bannedbooks.asp
And before you post them - the bikini pictures are also (unfortunately) photo-shopped and not real too.

If that's not good enough, how about a disclaimer from the source of the rumor, June Pinell-Stephens, chairwoman of the Alaska Library Association? 
quote:


Were any books censored banned? June Pinell-Stephens, chairwoman of the Alaska Library Association's Intellectual Freedom Committee since 1984, checked her files Wednesday and came up empty-handed. Source: http://www.adn.com/politics/story/515512.html 
You of all people using something that has been summarily dismissed. Smells of desperation...

quote:

was under investigation for abuse of power (and stonewalling )or wanted Alaska to succeeds from the US, left $22 million in debt when she was mayor,etc.etc. and you might get a different reaction.
The fact that she came out of a long investigation for abuse of power is a negative?

quote:

Most people believe we`ve had enough of that over the last 8 years and want to vote it out.
I know I am! Personally, I am STUNNED that any Democratic candidate doesn't have a 25% plurality at this point. Speaks more of the Democratic Party and Senator Obama than it does of his opposition.
quote:

Most people know there`s something up with her but still haven`t heard all the details or been able to digest them,.. yet.
This screams of grasping as straws.
quote:

People aren`t going to vote in incompetence,abuse of power and an ultra rightwing agenda.
Based on prior posts, the last two elections would point to a reality in contradiction of that statement. Again, I think, it is a matter of options. At least the 'ultra right-wing' presents the opportunity for success (albeit slim) as opposed to resignation to paying more taxes for ultra left-wing failed programs and bureaucracy.

quote:

There`s so much there and most people(voters) aren`t political animals (like us)or partisan.


Like the mandate to end the country of Republican President - this seems more like wishful thinking than the polling reality.

quote:

Most people don`t have conservative/liberal filters that allows them to overlook transgressions in a candidate.Palin won`t benefit from a sympathetic base(like the GOP) with independents and swing voters.They won`t overlook her "issues" with a snap of the finger,like cons have.
Glad you brought up the issues. At this point on record on the issues, Senator Obama has acknowledged that the 'Surge' worked, will not immediately withdraw all the troops and will keep us in Iraq indefinitely and without a deadline, supports ongoing tax cuts, and wants another economic stimulus check to go out.

All in all, he is more aligned with President Bush than Senator McCain and Governor Palin. Add that to the reality of having a VP candidate made wealthy by PAC contributions and you've got a fine Republican ticket there with Obama/Biden.

quote:

Still to soon to say.
Say what, the numbers representing Senator McCain's plurality?

(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 81
RE: USA Today poll: McCain/Palin have 10-point lead - 9/8/2008 4:52:57 PM   
bestbabync


Posts: 1061
Joined: 7/25/2007
Status: offline 		Mercnbeth,

u rule!

finally finally.....thank you!

LOL!!!!

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(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 82
RE: USA Today poll: McCain/Palin have 10-point lead - 9/8/2008 5:05:53 PM   
xBullx


Posts: 4206
Joined: 10/8/2005
Status: offline 		That good neighbor was an excellent rebuttle.... And quite civil...

It will be interesting to see the counter...

I love when party propaganda from either side is rebuked with "fact" and or "logic".

If you can't tell I am slowly developing a disdain for party politics.







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I'm not an asshole; I'm simply resolute...

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Caution: My humor is a bit skewed.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 83
RE: USA Today poll: McCain/Palin have 10-point lead - 9/8/2008 5:35:07 PM   
Thadius


Posts: 5091
Joined: 10/11/2005
Status: offline 		Here are the latest battleground state results, including the questions asked.  I found the question about trust, and who would you goto for advice for the toughest decision of your life to be interesting.  Too, the favorability of the 4 folks on the top 2 tickets was interesting to look at, mainly the unfavorable numbers.

http://www.foxnews.com/projects/pdf/Ras_allstates_090808_web.pdf

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Profile   Post #: 84
RE: USA Today poll: McCain/Palin have 10-point lead - 9/8/2008 6:11:30 PM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59


Still to soon to say.

Ask someone if they`d vote for Palin after knowing she fired a librarian (not true.  She got 3 of the librarians associates together...separately...and asked them, individually which one that person {of the 3} should be fired....due to upcoming budget cuts...Palin handled it so poorly that all 3 quit) while trying to ban books (not true...she posed the question "how do you feel about banning books?" in interviews of the head librarian when she first took office and wanted to discern her opinions on things such as whether or not she and/or her employees had open minds.  The question was {according to the news report} never answered) at the public library or was under investigation for abuse of power (and stonewalling )or wanted Alaska to succeeds (secede) from the US,left $22 million in debt when she was mayor ,etc.etc. and you might get a different reaction.

Don't matter to me if you dislike her...I don't actually have an opinion about her...but it sure seems to me that the worst way to pick a President or a VP...is by refusing facts, and encouraging conjecture.

People aren`t going to vote in incompetence,abuse of power and an ultra rightwing agenda.

(Hmmmmm....how'd Bush get there?)

Most people believe we`ve had enough of that over the last 8 years and want to vote it out

Most people know there`s something up with her but still haven`t heard all the details or been able to digest them,.. yet.

I suspect you're right...but she's only been on the world stage for a week.  I'm sure the vultures and the spin meisters will do what they can to get people to believe half truths in no time.  Obama does it to the McCain side...McCain does it to the Obama side....ain't nothing new under the sun as far as I can tell.

Right now they know the official GOP version,but little else.There`s so much there and most people(voters) aren`t political animals (like us)or partisan.

Most people don`t have conservative/liberal filters that allows them to overlook transgressions in a candidate.Palin won`t benefit from a sympathetic base(like the GOP) with independents and swing voters.They won`t overlook her "issues" with a snap of the finger,like cons have.

Still to soon to say.

(Indeed).

(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 85
RE: USA Today poll: McCain/Palin have 10-point lead - 9/8/2008 6:16:08 PM   
Sanity


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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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What surprises me about those poll results is, Bush is rating between 45% and 51% fair to excellent in his role as President in them.

Maybe I fell for the far left mantra or something... but I've been led to believe his favorability rating was much lower than that. I wonder what gives?




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Profile   Post #: 86
RE: USA Today poll: McCain/Palin have 10-point lead - 9/8/2008 6:38:09 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Oh fact and logic. I love it!

Snopes debunks the 'list' of books which was attributed to a Palin call for banning. Snopes has nothing to say on whether or not Palin made inquiries on the subject of book banning. Palin has neither confirmed nor denied the allegation.

Palin is currently under investigation for alleged abuse of power and filed ethics charges against herself. (Which still seems completely unnecessary to me .. you don't have to prove/disprove the same thing twice after all and just seems like a huge waste of tax payer dollars.. sigh). Whether or not that is a negative to some is purely subjective. I don't think it is outside the scope of reason for people to believe it is, indeed a negative.

I'm not sure that I agree that 'most' people know something is up with Palin. I feel like I have about as good as grasp on her stance on many issues as one can garner from research. Her flaws are pretty obvious as are her successes. I think that 'most' people don't want to put in the time and energy to research her so that may be why they feel that something is 'up' with her. I would put this into the area of personal responsibility. If someone wants to know whats 'up'.. they can find out.

On the subject of voting in incompetence, I have to agree with Merc. Folks have a nasty habit of doing that very thing. Time will tell on whether or not the grassroots approach, the number of new democrats that the Obama/Biden ticket have registered, whether or not they can actually get people out to the polls will, as usual, get us what we deserve as a nation .. or.. get us exactly what we've worked for as a nation. If we do nothing, that's exactly what we can expect from our government. No use whining about it if we, as 'the people' keep fucking it all up.

Really, what McCain/Palin and Obama/Biden have to say at this point probably isn't going to bring any new revelations (unless there really is some jaw-dropping Oct surprise.. ::koffs::). Flipping is part and particle of politiking and all 4 are on the record in that regard. It's all going to come down to whether or not Obama is as good as getting his supporters out there and actually voting as the republicans have traditionally been. Palin has been a boost in that regard. Hell, even Rush is going to vote now. Who'da thunk it!

As for Biden being 'wealthy'.. that's subjective. Compared to me, (jobless!), yeah.. compared to others ... not so much. He certainly falls well short of that $5m middle class mark. From my research, most of Biden's wealth is tied up as equity in his home and he had to take out a second mortgage in order to finance one of his kids' college education. He did receive a quarter of a million dollar advance for a book, and sold a home or two during the real estate boon way back when, but he's no Bill Gates.. or even Cindy McCain, that's for sure. As for PAC, yup, SOP for him but as Obama frowns on that sort of thing, we probably won't be seeing any more of it .. at least on that ticket.




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Profile   Post #: 87
RE: USA Today poll: McCain/Palin have 10-point lead - 9/8/2008 7:09:20 PM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

Oh fact and logic. I love it!

Snopes debunks the 'list' of books which was attributed to a Palin call for banning. Snopes has nothing to say on whether or not Palin made inquiries on the subject of book banning. Palin has neither confirmed nor denied the allegation.

Palin is currently under investigation for alleged abuse of power and filed ethics charges against herself. (Which still seems completely unnecessary to me .. you don't have to prove/disprove the same thing twice after all and just seems like a huge waste of tax payer dollars.. sigh). Whether or not that is a negative to some is purely subjective. I don't think it is outside the scope of reason for people to believe it is, indeed a negative.

I'm not sure that I agree that 'most' people know something is up with Palin. I feel like I have about as good as grasp on her stance on many issues as one can garner from research. Her flaws are pretty obvious as are her successes. I think that 'most' people don't want to put in the time and energy to research her so that may be why they feel that something is 'up' with her. I would put this into the area of personal responsibility. If someone wants to know whats 'up'.. they can find out.

On the subject of voting in incompetence, I have to agree with Merc. Folks have a nasty habit of doing that very thing. Time will tell on whether or not the grassroots approach, the number of new democrats that the Obama/Biden ticket have registered, whether or not they can actually get people out to the polls will, as usual, get us what we deserve as a nation .. or.. get us exactly what we've worked for as a nation. If we do nothing, that's exactly what we can expect from our government. No use whining about it if we, as 'the people' keep fucking it all up.

Really, what McCain/Palin and Obama/Biden have to say at this point probably isn't going to bring any new revelations (unless there really is some jaw-dropping Oct surprise.. ::koffs::). Flipping is part and particle of politiking and all 4 are on the record in that regard. It's all going to come down to whether or not Obama is as good as getting his supporters out there and actually voting as the republicans have traditionally been. Palin has been a boost in that regard. Hell, even Rush is going to vote now. Who'da thunk it!

As for Biden being 'wealthy'.. that's subjective. Compared to me, (jobless!), yeah.. compared to others ... not so much. He certainly falls well short of that $5m middle class mark. From my research, most of Biden's wealth is tied up as equity in his home and he had to take out a second mortgage in order to finance one of his kids' college education. He did receive a quarter of a million dollar advance for a book, and sold a home or two during the real estate boon way back when, but he's no Bill Gates.. or even Cindy McCain, that's for sure. As for PAC, yup, SOP for him but as Obama frowns on that sort of thing, we probably won't be seeing any more of it .. at least on that ticket.


(Nicely put).

(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 88
RE: USA Today poll: McCain/Palin have 10-point lead - 9/8/2008 7:25:54 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: xBullx

That good neighbor was an excellent rebuttle.... And quite civil...

It will be interesting to see the counter...

I love when party propaganda from either side is rebuked with "fact" and or "logic".

If you can't tell I am slowly developing a disdain for party politics.









I don`t know,I read the snopes and it repeated what has been reported...

She wanted to remove(ban) books.

What?That she wasn`t successful,so that matters?

She went to the librarian three times to do this book banning.They said no.

Did I miss something?

I never heard which books were considered and I don`t care .It matters little what the titles were.I never saw a list and I don`t need to.

That she even went there is enough to raise a red flag for me.

I sure hope we don`t hear suggestions that we should just give book banning a chance,just to see what happens.Or "what`s the harm in banning a few books,there`s tons of books left over,read them instead....."

This just fits into the pro-active fundie pattern.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O430vJrXWS8

So who`s going to live in Alaska,..... in the end times?

If Sarah would let me crash at her place,I am so there.

~~~~~

I`ll take back what I said about her firing the librarian.The jury`s out on that one.

And I`ll take the supposed real story about what happened and slip this issue out of the "abuse of power" column and slip it into the "incompetence" column.The story of how she handled the supposed "budget inspired firings" is a real doozy and doesn`t make her look good at all.

What would she do as POTUS or VP?

I`m amused by the desperate comments.Funny,it`s the Palinites who seem to be defensive and desperate.

I just heard that McCain is now calling himself an agent of change.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVIaqCjvLpU

Mavericks.......


You gotta be kidding?

The new ad contains a lie, that was debunked a week ago.

Sarah was for the "Bridge To Nowhere",wayyyy before she pretended to be against it.

She was for the earmarks.Now they claim she isn`t. This isn`t semantics.

Why are they lying about her opposision to earmarks?

added for Bita,



The filing of the complaint against herself, is a stonewalling maneuver.

It`s an effort to have everything postponed a couple months, till after the election.

If you think about the way a criminal thinks,it makes sence.

They are doing anything and saying anything at this point.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

When we were1st  introduced to this woman ,we heard simultaneous chest beating and self -back-patting.

OMG she`s the bomb,this,that and the other thing.Oh,...the "investigation"...

Oh that`s nothing,we heard.Oh,....she`s cooperating and wants things to come out,cus she`s innocent.....Oh,it`ll over in a couple weeks,no big deal.

Well Bita,they are trying to quash the investigation and any action concerning "troopergate",with her filing against herself.

 It`s called stonewalling by any other name ,they are desparate to make this abuse of power thing go away.

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 9/8/2008 8:14:14 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 89
RE: USA Today poll: McCain/Palin have 10-point lead - 9/8/2008 9:14:15 PM   
ShieldWolf


Posts: 55
Joined: 7/15/2005
Status: offline 		I guess we are not going to get to see that Chris Crocker video screaming and crying at the camera to just leave Sarah alone!

< Message edited by ShieldWolf -- 9/8/2008 9:15:45 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 90
RE: USA Today poll: McCain/Palin have 10-point lead - 9/9/2008 12:19:29 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver
Europe would prefer someone it could work, not someone it has to view as just another potential aggressive power it needs to keep at arm's length.

Europe does not have a say in American elections. America does not have a say in European elections.

Last I checked, that was still the order of things.


But it does interfer with this part of the world quite a lot.

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Profile   Post #: 91
RE: USA Today poll: McCain/Palin have 10-point lead - 9/9/2008 1:27:40 AM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY


quote:

ORIGINAL: bipolarber

It's Monday morning. The Today Show just ran the latest polls on likely voters and found that the supposed "lead" has now shrunk to 6%, and it seems to be dropping. Since things are back to within margin of error, really it seems likely that the bumps on both sides are quickly disappearing... and both conventions are a wash....

The polls, (if you give them any creedence to begin with) pretty much show things are going right back to where they were before the conventions took place.


So ... uh ... like ... you believe "The Today Show" to be supportive of real journalism?

Suuuurrrrreeee ....... (backs quietly away from bipolar).

Firm


So, please define what you consider "real journalism". 

Is it "real journalism" as long as it doesn't disagree with your views or report things you don't like?

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 92
RE: USA Today poll: McCain/Palin have 10-point lead - 9/9/2008 2:42:05 AM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

quote:

ORIGINAL: housesub4you

Yea, is that why McCain is protecting his VP choice from the press, not allowed to answer 1 questions since the convention. 

And the only interveiw by Gibbson this coming weekend.

Is she going to be the next Cheney, not having to amswer to the people or talk to the press because she works for the President?


What interviews has Biden given?  Oh and just one more easy question, how many public appearances did Biden have between his announcement and post convention?  I seem to remember him being put on a shelf for a little bit.

I suspect that Palin will be off the trail after today for a couple of days, to go spend some time with her son before his deployment.


Let's see, he was nominated on 8/23, accepted the nomination on 8/28, and was interviewed by 60 minutes  on 8/29.

He did have the advantage, though, of knowing what the Vice-President actually does before he got nominated for the job.

I'm sure they'll get Sarah up to speed soon though.  Maybe they'll even teach her a few things about the war her son is going off to, since, by her own words,  "I haven't really focused much on the war in Iraq".

< Message edited by rulemylife -- 9/9/2008 3:09:59 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 93
RE: USA Today poll: McCain/Palin have 10-point lead - 9/9/2008 4:30:54 AM   
Thadius


Posts: 5091
Joined: 10/11/2005
Status: offline 		I suggest the interview that Biden and Obama sat down for with 60 minutes on the 29th was an attempt to get the news focused back on them.  Remember that is the day that Palin was announced and took away all of the thunder of the speech the night before.  McCain's announcement on the 29th "stole" the news cycle for the entire weekend.

Just a thought,
Thadius

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Profile   Post #: 94
RE: USA Today poll: McCain/Palin have 10-point lead - 9/9/2008 5:42:50 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
quote:

McCain Now Winning Majority of Independents

Majority of independents now prefer him over Obama, 52% to 37%

PRINCETON, NJ -- John McCain's 6 percentage-point bounce in voter support spanning the Republican National Convention is largely explained by political independents shifting to him in fairly big numbers, from 40% pre-convention to 52% post-convention in Gallup Poll Daily tracking.


By contrast, Democrats' support for McCain rose 5 percentage points over the GOP convention period, from 9% to 14%, while Republicans' already-high support stayed about the same.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/110137/McCain-Now-Winning-Majority-Independents.aspx


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RE: USA Today poll: McCain/Palin have 10-point lead - 9/9/2008 5:47:30 AM   
Thadius


Posts: 5091
Joined: 10/11/2005
Status: offline 		I was just reading that article.  Awaiting the morning numbers from them.  14 minutes til post time, just like being at the race track

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Profile   Post #: 96
RE: USA Today poll: McCain/Palin have 10-point lead - 9/9/2008 5:59:02 AM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY


quote:

ORIGINAL: bipolarber

It's Monday morning. The Today Show just ran the latest polls on likely voters and found that the supposed "lead" has now shrunk to 6%, and it seems to be dropping. Since things are back to within margin of error, really it seems likely that the bumps on both sides are quickly disappearing... and both conventions are a wash....

The polls, (if you give them any creedence to begin with) pretty much show things are going right back to where they were before the conventions took place.


So ... uh ... like ... you believe "The Today Show" to be supportive of real journalism?

Suuuurrrrreeee ....... (backs quietly away from bipolar).

Firm


So, please define what you consider "real journalism". 

Is it "real journalism" as long as it doesn't disagree with your views or report things you don't like?


"The Today Show" and MSNBC share resources, including producers, reporters and such.

I don't consider MSNBC "real journalism". "The Today Show" is MSNBC Lite.

Firm

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Profile   Post #: 97
RE: USA Today poll: McCain/Palin have 10-point lead - 9/9/2008 6:36:51 AM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline



quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY




So, please define what you consider "real journalism". 

Is it "real journalism" as long as it doesn't disagree with your views or report things you don't like?


"The Today Show" and MSNBC share resources, including producers, reporters and such.

I don't consider MSNBC "real journalism". "The Today Show" is MSNBC Lite.

Firm


Let's hope you believe the same about Fox News, since they pioneered all this partisan nonsense masquerading as journalism.

< Message edited by rulemylife -- 9/9/2008 6:39:20 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 98
RE: USA Today poll: McCain/Palin have 10-point lead - 9/9/2008 7:30:16 AM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline 		This just in...10 AM, 9/09/08...Obama 50 McCain 49 (Wash. Post/ABC News) so it goes. What still amazes me is the loyalty to the long since disproven idea that we still have ANY so-called small government, fiscal conservatives in Wash. Seems even few here have been watching 20 of the last 28 years and still unknowlingly subscribe to such old stereotypes.

BTW ONCE AND FOR ALL Not Reagan, Not Bush I or BUSH II have CUT TAXES. Taxes keep rolling right along either being paid (not enough) or building up for our children to pay (federal debt) ...and their children and their children and their...

I read somewhere that ALL of us are now $86,000 EACH in debt...federal debt. Just where did all of that debt come from ?

People...a little perspective. I remember like it was yesterday, the right...the conservatives...the small govt. fiscal conservatives ranted like you wouldn't believe at what was to be Nixon's last budget request for ALL of govt. $300 BILLION.

30 years later 20 with republican executives at the helm...With the last budget of $3.3 TRILLION up 1,100 percent...leaves $300 billion as little more than the INTEREST on the federal debt. Get a grip people...our govt. is a for profit organization. Taxpayers pay this profit but to private recipients. Debt it has been suggested...is the NEW SLAVERY and I am beginning to think they are right.

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Profile   Post #: 99
RE: USA Today poll: McCain/Palin have 10-point lead - 9/9/2008 7:36:21 AM   
Thadius


Posts: 5091
Joined: 10/11/2005
Status: offline 		Got a link to that poll?

_____________________________

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Profile   Post #: 100
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