RE: Palins church. (Full Version)

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IamElise -> RE: Palins church. (9/9/2008 11:53:35 AM)

Legally, she can't personally ban the book series, but if she could.....Also, please explain to me that if you're not wanting a woman to be "helped" once she has a baby, (which by the way, she didn't create by herself) and she doesnt' have support, then what do you expect her to do if she's financially strapped because of this lack of support system? Have you never received help and support from anyone in your life for any reason? Have you been deserted and fallen between the cracks with no one to reach out too? If you have not ,you're fortunate. Why deny  this for someone not as fortunate?



subtee -> RE: Palins church. (9/9/2008 11:54:45 AM)

If choice (or lack thereof) is your issue, McCain may be your man. Then again he may not.

McCain said, “I’d love to see a point where Roe vs. Wade is irrelevant, and could be repealed because abortion is no longer necessary. But certainly in the short term, or even the long term, I would not support repeal of Roe vs. Wade, which would then force women in America to [undergo] illegal and dangerous operations.” A spokesman said that McCain “has a 17-year voting record of supporting efforts to overturn Roe vs. Wade. He does that currently, and will continue to do that as president.”
Source: Ron Fournier, Associated Press Aug 24, 1999
 
McCain said he thought Roe v. Wade should be overturned and said he would support exceptions to a ban on abortion in cases of rape, incest, and when the mother’s life is in danger.
Source: Boston Globe, p. A11 Jan 22, 2000



meatcleaver -> RE: Palins church. (9/9/2008 11:55:49 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bestbabync

but i cannot get behind a politician that would allow a gasping baby (outside the mother's body) to die in a rag pile to protect a woman's right to choose....sorry but i can't.

that is just one issue, which is not at the top of my list, but always in the back of my mind.


Read up on abortion and go check abortion out.

I notice that those people who are against abortion don't want to bring the would be child up or pay for it. Pro-lifers also seem to be pro-war for the most part.



IamElise -> RE: Palins church. (9/9/2008 11:58:17 AM)

And regarding our soldiers. Yes they are volunteers, but is it ethical to convince these brave men and women who sincerely and wholeheartedly want to serve and protect our country with their lives that they are fighting for freedom and to protect the US from weapons of mass destruction when it's a lie? They were lied to. So in essence, they were not fully informed about their choice to go to war.



kittinSol -> RE: Palins church. (9/9/2008 11:58:32 AM)

The woman should be forced to carry the pregnancy, and then give the baby away to wealthy infertile couples.  [>:] 

And if she does break the law and have a termination, then she should be... huh... let me think about that one. But there should be a sanction, definitely. Prison, yeah, that's it.

Let's make believe that progress is a bad thing and that we must go back on it - because hey, progress, you know... it's a socialist doctrine.



bestbabync -> RE: Palins church. (9/9/2008 12:02:06 PM)

oh my since you asked.  i found myself pregnant at age 17.  the father turned his back on me for drugs & partying.  he left me to grow up on my own and raise our daughter on my own.  i did recieve assistance and i attended college using federal grants & loans.  i came from a poor family but i had my mother's moral support and love.  yes, i was down on my luck and  i used the system as a step up, but i did not use it to pay for my birth control like many of my friends did at the time.  many girls i knew back then, 29 years ago, had abortions on the taxpayers dime. 
once i finished college i got a job and never looked back.  i am not rich, but i worked for everything i have and i raised both of my children to love and not murder their babies, no matter what. where there is a will there is a way.
of course i did have the choice to give my child up for adoption, which in my mind was not an option for me, but it is the right thing to do instead of abortion.

sorry to bore youeveryone, but IamElise asked.



Thadius -> RE: Palins church. (9/9/2008 12:02:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: IamElise

And regarding our soldiers. Yes they are volunteers, but is it ethical to convince these brave men and women who sincerely and wholeheartedly want to serve and protect our country with their lives that they are fighting for freedom and to protect the US from weapons of mass destruction when it's a lie? They were lied to. So in essence, they were not fully informed about their choice to go to war.


Would that go for those that have enlisted in the last 2 years as well?



IamElise -> RE: Palins church. (9/9/2008 12:02:15 PM)

I never stated that anyone should be forced to do anything. It's horrendous decision for the woman to make. Especially if she has no support. But I can't see abortion as an option. I would never condemn any woman who has had to make that painful decision.



IamElise -> RE: Palins church. (9/9/2008 12:04:04 PM)

I'm not in the minds of these soldiers. I do know that their intentions are good and that I have very loving friends who are soldiers for various reasons. Mostly because they are wanting to make the world safe. And they want to believe in our country and it's leaders.



subtee -> RE: Palins church. (9/9/2008 12:05:29 PM)

quote:

i did recieve assistance and i attended college using federal grants & loans.  i came from a poor family but i had my mother's moral support and love.  yes, i was down on my luck and  i used the system as a step up, but i did not use it to pay for my birth control like many of my friends did at the time. 


quote:

also...i am pro life but that does not mean that i want my tax dollars to pay for the homes for unwed mothers.  sorry, but i don't.  that is why service & giving is so important.  we all have a civic responsibility but i do not agree with being forced/taxed to fund charity organizations or pay for abortions.


Wow.



bestbabync -> RE: Palins church. (9/9/2008 12:06:38 PM)

 an infant that is left in the rag pile gasping for oxygen until it dies is being murdered.  the soldiers that voluntarily sign on the dotted line are not being murdered.



Mercnbeth -> RE: Palins church. (9/9/2008 12:07:46 PM)

quote:

So you turn a thread about Palin's church into yet another diatribe against Obama. Bravo.
I did? By simply putting some issue out there? WOW - Thanks!
Now if only the differences, or lack of them, were being discussed by more; maybe there would be a bit of knowledge advanced beyond the way to insult and name calling-both the tactic of losers. 
quote:

Didn't you kick and scream for weeks over Reverend Wright though? Why not over this? It's equally trivial, isn't it? Or is it just as worrying for you?
My posts concerning the Reverend and his flock focused on the candidate. Quoting the Senator Obama wasn't an attack it was a quote. The issue with his pastor wasn't the content it was the representation. At first the Senator wasn't there during the sermon. After that answer didn't work - throwing the Pastor, previously described in his book as his most influential person in his life - under the bus, forcing him to resign.

I also point to the incongruity of donating $20,000 in personal funds to any organization who you don't share its basic mission statement. Making a comparison to this case; as of yet Governor Palin isn't doing anything similar. You may not agree with her or her Church any more than you agree or disagree with Pastor Wright. The difference is Senator Obama bailed and ran in the face of standing up for what he believed was important and critical for many years when it came under scrutiny. A MAJOR difference, but that's just me...

As far as eliminating Senator Obama from consideration of support; his stance on the issues is the only reason. His movement to be viewed as a centrist is laughable. His voting record of 'present'. Hiding behind 'present' or "that's above my pay grade" on tough issues indicates he doesn't have the confidence to stand behind his convictions, if he has any. His placating Europe, or at minimum indicating that he will seek out their approval before taking any action speaks more to a 'New World Order' than any 'right-wing' reference you can find. Unless I missed the announcement that he is actually running for 'President of the World'.

You may want a person who lacks the integrity to stand up for his convictions; I require something else.

quote:

Or is it just as worrying for you?

Truth be told - I had great worries about him being elected until recently. Now, with his backtracking on the tax cuts, representing the 'Surge' was a success, and wanting to send out another 'Stimulus' check; he represents more of a status quo than Senator McCain.

I already know my vote will be cast for a loser. I haven't decided between Ron Paul or Rupaul. I'm just hoping that mine, and all the 'no' votes, will be considered in the basement of some Washington DC think tank and in four years some kind of new party choice will be provided.



Thadius -> RE: Palins church. (9/9/2008 12:09:28 PM)

You just said that the men in uniform were lied to about WMDs... so I asked if those that have enlisted knowing they are going to be going to war since it has become "common" knowledge about the WMDs also did so without knowledge.

You are right about one thing, the men and women enlisting are doing so for their own reasons, however I also believe they are doing so knowing that they are going to wind up in one of the theatres of war.



bestbabync -> RE: Palins church. (9/9/2008 12:11:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: subtee

quote:

i did recieve assistance and i attended college using federal grants & loans.  i came from a poor family but i had my mother's moral support and love.  yes, i was down on my luck and  i used the system as a step up, but i did not use it to pay for my birth control like many of my friends did at the time. 


quote:

also...i am pro life but that does not mean that i want my tax dollars to pay for the homes for unwed mothers.  sorry, but i don't.  that is why service & giving is so important.  we all have a civic responsibility but i do not agree with being forced/taxed to fund charity organizations or pay for abortions.


Wow.



there is a difference here subtee.  i did not use the system to support me nor pay for my mistake.  i had 2 jobs, took care of my daughter and went to school on the same federal grants & loans anyone was intitled too.  i did not recieve that support because i was an unwed mother.



IamElise -> RE: Palins church. (9/9/2008 12:11:49 PM)

You're not boring me bestbabync.  Thank you and I appreciate your response. We have a similar tale. (smile) I too went through an unsupported pregancy, (not even a mom) we beat all the odds, I pulled myself up, concentrated in being the best parent I could be and now my son is a successful accountant. In this day and age it's amazing because it's difficult in the financial world. He's a loving young man and my life would be dreary indeed without his presence. He graduated summa cum laude. But because I "made it" and he "made it"  doesn't mean that others have the same abilities. People need support. If I'm going to want women to not abort their babies, then my home  and heart will always be open for them and their children when they are lacking a place to stay or loving supportive arms.



Thadius -> RE: Palins church. (9/9/2008 12:14:11 PM)

Afternoon Merc,

I tried starting a thread to discuss the differences in issues, if I remember correctly only 1 Obama supporter even took part and tried to discuss them.  The rest of the answers were, "He's not Bush."

Now we are in a period of chasing Palin around, so again the issues will be avoided.  I am not sure who that benefits, but I know the damage is does to the electorate.

How does that old saying go about what sells newspapers?



kittinSol -> RE: Palins church. (9/9/2008 12:15:26 PM)

It's not a horrendous decision; it's a difficult decision, but it doesn't necessarily have to be made out to be such a horrible thing. If it's necessary, like most medical interventions, it's not the most pleasant thing, but really, guilt has to be taken out of the termination equation. That's where women have a hard time - doesn't mean it's not difficult.



IamElise -> RE: Palins church. (9/9/2008 12:15:31 PM)

I answered you Thadius. I don't know why some people become soldiers. It's their choice. I just wish they were in a war that made sense.



IamElise -> RE: Palins church. (9/9/2008 12:18:25 PM)

KittinSol. That's where we disagree. No one should be made to feel guilty about something that has already happened, but taking a baby from a womb should never be a casual thought. People will do what they do, but it's still a human being whose life is being taken. That's horrible no matter the circumstance.



IamElise -> RE: Palins church. (9/9/2008 12:20:00 PM)

(man, I'm gettin' it from both sides! Does that make me a politcal switch?) lol



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