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RE: We don't talk the same language - 9/9/2008 12:57:57 PM   
softness


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I didn't make any claims about knowing her background.

I did however read between the lines - something you often have to do with people who feel uncertain and unsure (often because they are constantly in uncertain circumstances). In the little she posted I could see several key indicators that something was certainly not going well . I could see this because what she said echoed countless conversations I have been party to where victims of domestic abuse attempt to articulate difficult and confusing situations and emotions. I am sure that this insight is neither godlike nor in anyway special. I am sure that many hundreds of thousands of people could have spotted the same thing. I sympathised with her religious difficulty which compunded the problem - as it is one I would share.

I then offered the following advice
  • Ignore accusations of uncertainty (this upset you clearly, for which I unreservedly apologise, I did not realise you were sensitive to disgareement from strangers on the internet)
  • Communicate calmly and fairly with her partner about the situation, and offer suggestions and not just list problems.
  • Investigate the rights she has, and the support available to her.
  • Communicate her findings to her partner so that she ceases to be a victim in both in his eyes, and in her own.

I think that is fairly generic advice, suitable to the fairly limited information she gave us.





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(in reply to Icarys)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: We don't talk the same language - 9/9/2008 12:58:04 PM   
Icarys


Posts: 5757
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys



You wanta know what makes me qualified to answer this? Nothing until i know more. It doen't take a rocket scientist to figure out abuse.. What it does take is some questions.





oh this is nearly comic...

It is not...is not...up to you to determine if the OP is being abused. I do not give a dead rats ass how many questions you have or what the answers are. Abuse is NOT for you to decide!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




MY POINT EXACTLY SO STOP GIVNG HER ADVICE TO LEAVE.
lol


_____________________________

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(in reply to sirsholly)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: We don't talk the same language - 9/9/2008 12:59:54 PM   
sirsholly


Posts: 42360
Joined: 9/7/2007
From: Quietville
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys

quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys



You wanta know what makes me qualified to answer this? Nothing until i know more. It doen't take a rocket scientist to figure out abuse.. What it does take is some questions.





oh this is nearly comic...

It is not...is not...up to you to determine if the OP is being abused. I do not give a dead rats ass how many questions you have or what the answers are. Abuse is NOT for you to decide!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




MY POINT EXACTLY SO STOP GIVNG HER ADVICE TO LEAVE.
lol



Hon...she SAID she is being abused and i'll be damned it i am going to ask her to prove it!!!! Her word is accepted.


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Profile   Post #: 43
RE: We don't talk the same language - 9/9/2008 1:00:46 PM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys



You wanta know what makes me qualified to answer this? Nothing until i know more. It doen't take a rocket scientist to figure out abuse.. What it does take is some questions.





oh this is nearly comic...

It is not...is not...up to you to determine if the OP is being abused. I do not give a dead rats ass how many questions you have or what the answers are. Abuse is NOT for you to decide!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Know what is comic? Nothing - it's tragic.   That as much as people are shouting abuse, there is NO obvious point that this person is being abused.  You're throwing up your arms in despair that Icarys shouldn't decide - neither should you.
 
What the OP SHOULD be doing that is constructive is finding a kink friendly therapist and asking her partner to attend TOGETHER - and if not together, on her own.  Not coming online to have a bunch of online 'therapists' decide her life for her based on a couple of one sided posts.
 
the.dark.


< Message edited by Darcyandthedark -- 9/9/2008 1:02:03 PM >


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Profile   Post #: 44
RE: We don't talk the same language - 9/9/2008 1:01:54 PM   
sirsholly


Posts: 42360
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From: Quietville
Status: offline
and another think Icky...she did not post here asking what qualifies as abuse. She already knows because she is living it on a daily basis.



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Profile   Post #: 45
RE: We don't talk the same language - 9/9/2008 1:02:56 PM   
Icarys


Posts: 5757
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: softness

I didn't make any claims about knowing her background.

I did however read between the lines - something you often have to do with people who feel uncertain and unsure (often because they are constantly in uncertain circumstances). In the little she posted I could see several key indicators that something was certainly not going well . I could see this because what she said echoed countless conversations I have been party to where victims of domestic abuse attempt to articulate difficult and confusing situations and emotions. I am sure that this insight is neither godlike nor in anyway special. I am sure that many hundreds of thousands of people could have spotted the same thing. I sympathised with her religious difficulty which compunded the problem - as it is one I would share.

I then offered the following advice
  • Ignore accusations of uncertainty (this upset you clearly, for which I unreservedly apologise, I did not realise you were sensitive to disgareement from strangers on the internet)
  • Communicate calmly and fairly with her partner about the situation, and offer suggestions and not just list problems.
  • Investigate the rights she has, and the support available to her.
  • Communicate her findings to her partner so that she ceases to be a victim in both in his eyes, and in her own.

I think that is fairly generic advice, suitable to the fairly limited information she gave us.








why would you read between the lines and not just aske her? You know that is the right thing to do.


_____________________________

submission - the feeling of patient, submissive humbleness - the state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.

Alaska Bound-The Official Countdown Has Started!
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(in reply to softness)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: We don't talk the same language - 9/9/2008 1:05:02 PM   
softness


Posts: 2918
Joined: 8/1/2006
From: Leeds, UK
Status: offline
Holly ... uphill struggle ... you already know what the view is from the top ...

Icarys ... the sun is melting your feathers .. land before you fall.

It is up to the OP to decide if she is suffering from abuse .. she clearly is leaning towards the feeling that she is. We are giving her suggestions of what she can do with that decision once it is made. Holly's advice was that if she feels she is being abused .. and is in danger .. she should leave. Pretty sage and sensible advice. Other people gave equally sage and sensible advice that was different ... thats the great thing about finding solutions to a problem .. there is often more than one.

You are in fact the only one giving her advice about making that decision  ... which you keep saying she has to make on her own.

_____________________________

proudly wearing the blue collar of consideration to DK Leather, Leatherdykeuk, and LeatherEagle of the UK KRueL Leather Family

veritas, respectus honorque in corio





(in reply to Icarys)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: We don't talk the same language - 9/9/2008 1:05:51 PM   
sirsholly


Posts: 42360
Joined: 9/7/2007
From: Quietville
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: trainedobedients

When Master and i were so called dating he was more sensitive, kinder and less cold hearted. Now we are married and I see a completely different person, less likeable one, unsensitive, cold hearted and downright abusive.



Icky and the dark...the op has stated abuse.

The advice is NOT to stay in an abusive situation. Period. Just get out. Period. If they want to get counseling while seperated...fine! Go for it! Highly recommend it!!

But get the fuck out before the abuse caused more damage.


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Profile   Post #: 48
RE: We don't talk the same language - 9/9/2008 1:08:13 PM   
Icarys


Posts: 5757
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys

quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys



You wanta know what makes me qualified to answer this? Nothing until i know more. It doen't take a rocket scientist to figure out abuse.. What it does take is some questions.





oh this is nearly comic...

It is not...is not...up to you to determine if the OP is being abused. I do not give a dead rats ass how many questions you have or what the answers are. Abuse is NOT for you to decide!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




MY POINT EXACTLY SO STOP GIVNG HER ADVICE TO LEAVE.
lol



Hon...she SAID she is being abused and i'll be damned it i am going to ask her to prove it!!!! Her word is accepted.


So whoever says they are being abused is telling the truth and that's that. Why even have cops and courts then? Just lock'em up. If she is a victim then she needs to do something about it. If she is someone who is needing attention and she's not getting it that's a different point..The rational thing is to investigate. Not accuse her of either.


_____________________________

submission - the feeling of patient, submissive humbleness - the state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.

Alaska Bound-The Official Countdown Has Started!
http://tinyurl.com/872mcu3
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(in reply to sirsholly)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: We don't talk the same language - 9/9/2008 1:09:31 PM   
Icarys


Posts: 5757
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

ORIGINAL: trainedobedients

When Master and i were so called dating he was more sensitive, kinder and less cold hearted. Now we are married and I see a completely different person, less likeable one, unsensitive, cold hearted and downright abusive.



Icky and the dark...the op has stated abuse.

The advice is NOT to stay in an abusive situation. Period. Just get out. Period. If they want to get counseling while seperated...fine! Go for it! Highly recommend it!!

But get the fuck out before the abuse caused more damage.


My name is Icarys not Icky but i know what your intentions are Holly. It reflects on you not me Hon.


_____________________________

submission - the feeling of patient, submissive humbleness - the state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.

Alaska Bound-The Official Countdown Has Started!
http://tinyurl.com/872mcu3
http://alturl.com/mog7m

(in reply to sirsholly)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: We don't talk the same language - 9/9/2008 1:10:46 PM   
ModeratorEleven


Posts: 2007
Joined: 8/14/2005
Status: offline
Folks, please chill this out.

XI



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This mod goes to eleven.

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Profile   Post #: 51
RE: We don't talk the same language - 9/9/2008 1:10:56 PM   
Icarys


Posts: 5757
Status: offline
the OP has gotten incredibly quiet during all of this

< Message edited by Icarys -- 9/9/2008 1:11:23 PM >


_____________________________

submission - the feeling of patient, submissive humbleness - the state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.

Alaska Bound-The Official Countdown Has Started!
http://tinyurl.com/872mcu3
http://alturl.com/mog7m

(in reply to Icarys)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: We don't talk the same language - 9/9/2008 1:11:55 PM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly
Icky and the dark...the op has stated abuse.

The advice is NOT to stay in an abusive situation. Period. Just get out. Period. If they want to get counseling while seperated...fine! Go for it! Highly recommend it!!

But get the fuck out before the abuse caused more damage.



Well the first part, although not aimed at me I get, is completely out of order and just makes you look awful holly. Why do you have to be so rude?
Holly - I don't really care what she 'thinks' - If she is being abused, she should leave.  End of.

 
BUT
 
This post is nothing more than one trying to get affirmation that shes not wrong.  We can't and shouldn't GIVE her that.  The only people that can is herself, and a counsellor if she choses to get one.  She has already made the decision.  She already knows the outcome - her post drips with recognition.  She just wants people to tell her shes ok, that shes being abused blahblahblah.
 
I'm not going to give her that because I don't know her history and I don't know his side.
What I do say is make the decision and do it.  Don't come whining on a forum to strangers for placing unrealistic expectations on marriage and a relationship that isn't the fantasy she hoped for.
 
the.dark.


< Message edited by Darcyandthedark -- 9/9/2008 1:14:57 PM >


_____________________________


RC&dc


love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to sirsholly)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: We don't talk the same language - 9/9/2008 1:14:16 PM   
Icarys


Posts: 5757
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: softness

Holly ... uphill struggle ... you already know what the view is from the top ...

Icarys ... the sun is melting your feathers .. land before you fall.

It is up to the OP to decide if she is suffering from abuse .. she clearly is leaning towards the feeling that she is. We are giving her suggestions of what she can do with that decision once it is made. Holly's advice was that if she feels she is being abused .. and is in danger .. she should leave. Pretty sage and sensible advice. Other people gave equally sage and sensible advice that was different ... thats the great thing about finding solutions to a problem .. there is often more than one.

You are in fact the only one giving her advice about making that decision  ... which you keep saying she has to make on her own.

I can only suggest not make.

My wings are freshly waxed and i'm soaring just the right height.. Try some sandpaper on those edges. 1200 grit should smooth you right out. Your a little uneven on the left.

< Message edited by Icarys -- 9/9/2008 1:16:19 PM >


_____________________________

submission - the feeling of patient, submissive humbleness - the state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.

Alaska Bound-The Official Countdown Has Started!
http://tinyurl.com/872mcu3
http://alturl.com/mog7m

(in reply to softness)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: We don't talk the same language - 9/9/2008 1:15:54 PM   
Icarys


Posts: 5757
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark


quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly
Icky and the dark...the op has stated abuse.

The advice is NOT to stay in an abusive situation. Period. Just get out. Period. If they want to get counseling while seperated...fine! Go for it! Highly recommend it!!

But get the fuck out before the abuse caused more damage.



Well the first part, although not aimed at me I get, is completely out of order and just makes you look awful holly. Why do you have to be so rude?
Holly - I don't really care what she 'thinks' - If she is being abused, she should leave.  End of.

 
BUT
 
This post is nothing more than one trying to get affirmation that shes not wrong.  We can't and shouldn't GIVE her that.  The only people that can is herself, and a counsellor if she choses to get one.  She has already made the decision.  She already knows the outcome - her post drips with recognition.  She just wants people to tell her shes ok, that shes being abused blahblahblah.
 
I'm not going to give her that because I don't know her history and I don't know his side.
What I do say is make the decision and do it.  Don't come whining on a forum to strangers for placing unrealistic expectations on marriage and a relationship that isn't the fantasy she hoped for.
 
the.dark.



Thank you for yet another rationally approached post.


_____________________________

submission - the feeling of patient, submissive humbleness - the state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.

Alaska Bound-The Official Countdown Has Started!
http://tinyurl.com/872mcu3
http://alturl.com/mog7m

(in reply to RCdc)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: We don't talk the same language - 9/9/2008 1:23:25 PM   
sirsholly


Posts: 42360
Joined: 9/7/2007
From: Quietville
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys


So whoever says they are being abused is telling the truth and that's that. Why even have cops and courts then? Just lock'em up. If she is a victim then she needs to do something about it. If she is someone who is needing attention and she's not getting it that's a different point..The rational thing is to investigate. Not accuse her of either.



where did the OP state she was going to file charges and have him arrested? Musta missed that part.


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Profile   Post #: 56
RE: We don't talk the same language - 9/9/2008 1:26:18 PM   
sirsholly


Posts: 42360
Joined: 9/7/2007
From: Quietville
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark


quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly
Icky and the dark...the op has stated abuse.

The advice is NOT to stay in an abusive situation. Period. Just get out. Period. If they want to get counseling while seperated...fine! Go for it! Highly recommend it!!

But get the fuck out before the abuse caused more damage.



Well the first part, although not aimed at me I get, is completely out of order and just makes you look awful holly. Why do you have to be so rude?



i did not see anything i wrote as rude. If you did, i am sure the mods will asst you.


_____________________________

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Profile   Post #: 57
RE: We don't talk the same language - 9/9/2008 1:29:10 PM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly
where did the OP state she was going to file charges and have him arrested? Musta missed that part.



The issue is that innocent before proven guilty holly.  What is really scarey is that you are backing someone with no proof, someone you do not know and supporting them.  I really gave you far more credit than that, I really did.  This isn't a regular poster, this isn't someone you know personally.  This isn't some neighbour you can see the bruises for or see her falling apart because of his behaviour.  This is a post wanting attention - and not particularly postive attention either.  And I am surprised you are getting sucked in.
 
the.dark.

_____________________________


RC&dc


love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to sirsholly)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: We don't talk the same language - 9/9/2008 1:33:09 PM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly
i did not see anything i wrote as rude. If you did, i am sure the mods will asst you.



The moderators already warned holly.  They don't assist me - I don't need them to when they are very capable already.
And playing the innocent doesn't make your rudeness any excuse - this isn't Polls and Random where you can lay into anyone as you and your friends usually do.
 
the.dark.


< Message edited by Darcyandthedark -- 9/9/2008 1:52:31 PM >


_____________________________


RC&dc


love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to sirsholly)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: We don't talk the same language - 9/9/2008 2:07:19 PM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
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One might consider abuse to be one thing and another it is something different.  One difference in it all is that if someone feels abused, in their mind they are abused.  Whether their take on it all comes from an overly sensitive place, past wounds or whatever, they feel and are responding to abuse.  I didn’t see anything that suggested physical abuse and there may not be the danger of physical harm, but there is reason to believe there is emotional harm that could be done or has been done.  As the situation has been presented, there are a number of patterns that an abuser will often use and enough red flags to believe this woman is being abused, as emotional abuse is abuse.

She is in a very vulnerable place being in a strange country, away from family and with few resources.  She could become more emotional or panicked in such a situation, but that doesn’t negate the fact that there seems to be patterns of abuse here and she feels abused and or used.  Is neglect abuse?  Well, let’s look at neglect.  If one is neglected, they fail to thrive and sooner or later it will affect their health and overall general well being.  When one is afraid and this woman must be afraid by the situation alone, she will suffer emotionally and physically at some point.  So, neglect and fear are in a sense abuse, even if only she can see it that way.

After years of research and working with the abused, up to the point of directing a shelter that dealt with a lot of abuse issues and working with different shelters in many capacities, I would say this woman is clearly showing patterns of abuse in the relationship and the results thereof.  No matter the situation and all the details, she is in a precarious situation and needs some assistance in either staying or getting out and needs the input of others to strengthen herself to prepare for what she must do in staying or leaving. 

Preparing to go would be my first suggestion.  Talking to a shelter for abused women might be very helpful, but to rush to a shelter and too short allowance of how long she can stay might be a mistake.  First of all, she may not qualify for benefits that would help her and that must be determined before she leaves as she could end up homeless.  She needs legal counsel before she puts herself in danger.  Some shelters can help her even if she is not staying there and could help in arranging legal services.  She should also look into agencies that might help her return to her home country.

So to the one that seems to think there are too few details to determine anything and that posters are wrong to advise her to leave… who thinks that one can be overly sensitive when needing some feedback on how the meal was… which I would think deserves a lap sit and a good talk… well… I doubt you are the best one to advise a woman in this situation.  Although some may seem to be alarmist in a situation like this… they may have a bit more experience than you have.  It is good to be fair and to examine each detail, but sorry to say, we may never know the details… but some of us do see red flags and for the situation being what it is on a message board, I think they answered in good faith.

The simple fact is this woman is gaining strength by posting as she has and that is of major importance in a situation such as this.  In running the shelter, many would come in so shell shocked that you had to take them by the hand for a time and lead them in every direction.  You have to build upon many things before some of them are able to fend for themselves.  It would be nice to see this woman get the support and help she needs before she is in that state, but from what I have seen, she may not be far from there.
In cases such as mental or emotional abuse or neglect, and no physical abuse has taken place, things could escalate to physical abuse and is another pattern in abuse cases.  She must be careful and prepared and knowledge, support systems and options are of major benefit and importance here.  When a woman leaves, she is often times in more danger than if she stayed.  So preparations are the best way to go in a situation like this.  Good counsel would be a good thing.  It is also a good thing to be safe rather than sorry.


(in reply to Icarys)
Profile   Post #: 60
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