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RE: Does Lipstick on a Pig Now Equal Hockey Mom? - 9/9/2008 8:03:42 PM   
Sanity


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I'm actually pleased that Senator Obama is imploding, kitten.

Forget the logs in my eyes... 

Go look in the mirror!


quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

It's all in the eye of the beholder, Sanity. Perhaps you truly enjoy getting riled up, but here, let me help you... there... a little frothing... at the mouth. *dab dab dab*, and hey presto! All better now  .


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RE: Does Lipstick on a Pig Now Equal Hockey Mom? - 9/9/2008 8:08:09 PM   
cloudboy


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Status: offline 		McCain, who has been a lock-step Republican with BUSH, is putting "lipstick on a pig" by now claiming to be a candidate for "change."

Its beyond being a bad joke..... this whole "change" mantra coming from the Republicans.

I started a thread here asking what CM Republicans wanted as far as change: and the responses were basically nil beyond more fiscal conservatism and changing crusty entrenched power seats in DC. In reality, all you guys want is more of the same: tax cuts, wars, bloated military spending, culture war politics, fear mongering, increasing the oil supply, etc.

No one piped in with any ideas about reducing tuition costs to go to college, more effective regulation by our government agencies, a different energy policy, a different foreign policy, a new healthcare policy, a new transportation policy, or a different tax policy etc. Zippo --- you guys don't want changes on these fronts. In fact, from what I have seen, you guys are dead set against change.

For instance, what fucking change would there be on the Supreme Court with McCain? None! He'd be packing it with more conservatives. If Obama was elected, then there would be a guy interested in changing the Supreme Court -- or at least preventing it from going completely conservative.

Republicans don't want change, they just want power.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 9/9/2008 8:16:24 PM >

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RE: Does Lipstick on a Pig Now Equal Hockey Mom? - 9/9/2008 8:08:39 PM   
Thadius


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quote:

ORIGINAL: faithandImpulse

And Thadius--I'm an advocate for special needs and ESOL kids. I reviewed the transcript of Obama's remarks, and he obviously doesn't know much about special ed kids and was bluffing his way through that answer, but there was no 'cheap shot' there whatsoever.


~faith



Evening faith,

It was that combined with the remarks by Biden... there was a joint attack by the 2 of them today, the lipstick remarks and then this issue.

quote:

Speaking to voters in Columbia, Mo., Biden said:

“I hear all this talk about how the Republicans are going to work in dealing with parents who have both the joy, because there’s joy to it as well, the joy and the difficulty of raising a child who has a developmental disability, who were born with a birth defect. Well guess what folks? If you care about it, why don’t you support stem cell research?”


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RE: Does Lipstick on a Pig Now Equal Hockey Mom? - 9/9/2008 8:09:13 PM   
cloudboy


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quote:

I read Obama's remark as referring to McCain's policy.. not VP pick. Obviously, it's a matter of perception.


You are exactly correct.

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RE: Does Lipstick on a Pig Now Equal Hockey Mom? - 9/9/2008 8:11:12 PM   
FatDomDaddy


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Status: offline 		Because the politics of stem sell research is a sale of false hope.

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RE: Does Lipstick on a Pig Now Equal Hockey Mom? - 9/9/2008 8:14:51 PM   
MistressNew


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Status: offline 		Say, wasn't Obama talking about McCain when he made the "lipstick on a pig" comment?  Out of curiosity, why did McCain get mad about that remark (and then claim Obama was talking about Palin) but is totally fine with the old fish remark? 

Is this politics by transubstantiation?  How does an Obama remark while talking about McCain= an insult against Palin?  This whole thing screams "manufactured scandal."  Then again, I've never been an advocate for PC speech, as so many of our republican friends seem to be.

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RE: Does Lipstick on a Pig Now Equal Hockey Mom? - 9/9/2008 8:16:18 PM   
kittinSol


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Status: offline 		I'm drooling, but that's because I'm thinking of you. It's nothing to do with tedious politics  . Au contraire, mon cher.

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RE: Does Lipstick on a Pig Now Equal Hockey Mom? - 9/9/2008 8:18:47 PM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

Is this politics by transubstantiation? How does an Obama remark while talking about McCain= an insult against Palin? This whole thing screams "manufactured scandal."

Of course it's a manufactured scandal.  What makes it so ridiculous is that Obama delivered it pre-fab.

Manufactured or not, Obama is in the position yet again of having to "explain" his remarks.  That is not a positive pattern for Obama's campaign.

Moral of the story:  Obama was correct--words do matter.  And in the darndest of ways.


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RE: Does Lipstick on a Pig Now Equal Hockey Mom? - 9/9/2008 8:21:17 PM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressNew

Say, wasn't Obama talking about McCain when he made the "lipstick on a pig" comment?  Out of curiosity, why did McCain get mad about that remark (and then claim Obama was talking about Palin) but is totally fine with the old fish remark? 

Is this politics by transubstantiation?  How does an Obama remark while talking about McCain= an insult against Palin?  This whole thing screams "manufactured scandal."  Then again, I've never been an advocate for PC speech, as so many of our republican friends seem to be.



Bingo, spot on, bull's eye - making something up to get falsely riled up, allows them to point the finger and cry 'Foul!' at the person who didn't insult them in the first place. It's devious, but it's not even brilliant. Once again, the Republicans are playing at being the lowest common denominator. You'd think they'd get sick of that game by now, but since cheating seems to work, why should they be honourable, and accountable?

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RE: Does Lipstick on a Pig Now Equal Hockey Mom? - 9/9/2008 8:23:18 PM   
MistressNew


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quote:


Of course it's a manufactured scandal. What makes it so ridiculous is that Obama delivered it pre-fab.

Manufactured or not, Obama is in the position yet again of having to "explain" his remarks. That is not a positive pattern for Obama's campaign.
quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

Is this politics by transubstantiation? How does an Obama remark while talking about McCain= an insult against Palin? This whole thing screams "manufactured scandal."

Of course it's a manufactured scandal.  What makes it so ridiculous is that Obama delivered it pre-fab.

Manufactured or not, Obama is in the position yet again of having to "explain" his remarks.  That is not a positive pattern for Obama's campaign.

Moral of the story:  Obama was correct--words do matter.  And in the darndest of ways.



0% of that makes sense.

You admit it's a manufactured scandal, but then blame Obama instead of the people manufacturing the scandal.  The republicans can paint anyone in a negative light:

http://pbones.com/images/linkimages/20040914jesusvsbush.jpg

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RE: Does Lipstick on a Pig Now Equal Hockey Mom? - 9/9/2008 8:26:03 PM   
bestbabync


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Status: offline 		ok......unfortunately alot of voters will hear that statement and carry it with them to the voting booth.  no matter how or what Obama meant by it, what is done is done....next!

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RE: Does Lipstick on a Pig Now Equal Hockey Mom? - 9/9/2008 8:30:08 PM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

You admit it's a manufactured scandal, but then blame Obama instead of the people manufacturing the scandal. The republicans can paint anyone in a negative light:

I blame Obama for being dumb enough not to see it coming a mile off.

It's not a sucker punch when you refuse to keep your guard up.


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RE: Does Lipstick on a Pig Now Equal Hockey Mom? - 9/9/2008 8:35:46 PM   
Sanity


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It's more, it isn't a sucker punch if you walk into a stop sign with your eyes wide open.

Huge gaffe yesterday, huge gaffe today....  

I argue with a friend of mine, telling him that the Obama / Biden gaffe machine is going to cause a Republican blowout this year, but he doesn't think so...

Maybe I should make a quick run down to Reno tonight!


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RE: Does Lipstick on a Pig Now Equal Hockey Mom? - 9/9/2008 8:55:08 PM   
MzMia


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Oh, if the Reps win this presidency, the tsunami of consternation will be high. On the other hand, why should a Democrat inherit the devastation left behind by Bush and his cohorts? I can already hear you accusing the Democratic president of being responsible for the mess Bush made. So in a way, it might not be such a bad thing if Mrs Palin and her second in command acted as a buffer zone before the next election. It might take this, however painful. But change is painful, isn't it? So all in all, we'll always be a winner  . Sorry: a winnah.

Edited, because I type too fast.


Give kitten a gold star for this answer.
As much as I want Obama to win, if he loses there is a silver lining.
Let McCain and Mrs.Palin help clean up the crap, that the current Republican
Administration put us in!

If nothing else, many might see the light!
lol, Remember how people were crying, pissing and moaning months after Bush was re-elected?
I recall many saying "4 more years of this?"
Let McCain be elected, I predict people will be crying, pissing and moaning by the
summer, saying 3 more years of this?
What is the current Administration's public approval rating? 10?

My memory is long, ask and you shall indeed receive.

< Message edited by MzMia -- 9/9/2008 9:01:22 PM >

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RE: Does Lipstick on a Pig Now Equal Hockey Mom? - 9/9/2008 9:13:54 PM   
FirmhandKY


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Status: offline 		FR:

Ok, I went and looked for the video, and found part of it.

Here.

What it does show is the specific sentence, and the "hooping and hollaring" from the crowd.

The next thing I found was an ABC blog of Jake Tappers:

That's not change," Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., said of what Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., is offering.

"You know, you can put lipstick on a pig," Obama said, "but it's still a pig."

The crowd rose and applauded, some of them no doubt thinking he may have been alluding to Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin's ad lib during her vice presidential nomination acceptance speech last week, "What's the difference between a hockey mom and a pit bull? Lipstick."

"You can wrap an old fish in a piece of paper called 'change,'" Obama continued, "it's still gonna stink after eight years.

"We’ve had enough of the same old thing! It’s time to bring about real change to Washington.  And that’s the choice you’ve got in this election."

Obama added that "it is not going to be easy ... John McCain has a compelling biography, you know Sarah Palin is an interesting story."

The crowd booed.

"No, she’s new!" Obama said. "She hasn’t been on the scene, you know, she’s got five kids and my hat goes off to anybody who’s looking after five. I’ve got two and they tire Michelle and me out!"

While I'll wait a more complete video of the event, here are some of initial thoughts.

1.  It does look like the crowd took the comment as a direct reference to Palin.

2.  The use of the term "lipstick" has become Palin's signature phrase.  I even said it would in one of the Palin threads immediately after the speech.

3. While Obama is overtly talking about McCain/Palin policies, it should have been obvious to someone in the Obama campaign (even if not to Obama himself) that the use of the term "lipstick" would immediately bring Palin to mind.

4. Using the term's "pig" with "lipstick", and then "fish" and immediately talking about Palin, and basically saying that "she's new" and "she’s got five kids and my hat goes off to anybody who’s looking after five." really makes it difficult to believe that it was only mistakenly taken as a direct personal attack, in a sexist manner on her.

Or maybe not.  I'm still willing to believe that he was just clueless about the shit-storm that he would ignite.

But along with Biden's comments, the obvious approval of the crowd, and the whole left's derangement over Palin ... he should have known better. 

If he was so clueless that he doesn't realize that in an election, everything a politican says will be analyzed to death, then ... even if he didn't intend it, he deserves the storm.

Face it, your choices are that he didn't intentionally insult her, and was clueless, or he did intentionally insult her and is a sexist.

Not someone that engenders a lot of trust, I'd think.

Awaiting the full video before I decide.

Firm

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RE: Does Lipstick on a Pig Now Equal Hockey Mom? - 9/9/2008 9:44:05 PM   
subtee


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

Face it, your choices are that he didn't intentionally insult her, and was clueless, or he did intentionally insult her and is a sexist.




Why are those the only choices? Is the issue the animal? If her original and his subsequent comments were about an otter would that be seen as not being sexist or insulting?


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RE: Does Lipstick on a Pig Now Equal Hockey Mom? - 9/10/2008 12:34:24 AM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: subtee

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

Face it, your choices are that he didn't intentionally insult her, and was clueless, or he did intentionally insult her and is a sexist.




Why are those the only choices? Is the issue the animal? If her original and his subsequent comments were about an otter would that be seen as not being sexist or insulting?



I'm not 100% certain I understand your point, so feel free to correct me if I missed it.

What other choice is there?

Believe me, if McCain does something similar, I'll say the same thing.

I think the best face you could put on it (so far) would be that it was a poor choice of words for him. Almost EVERYONE knows about Palin's "pitbull with lipstick" comment - at least everyone who is political aware.

"A poor choice of words" isn't the persona that Obama has exhibited in public speaking, is it?

Firm

PS. Another Obama thread moved to Random Stupidity. Seems to be a trend.


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RE: Does Lipstick on a Pig Now Equal Hockey Mom? - 9/10/2008 5:29:51 AM   
Sanity


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Yeah, a definite trend. Moved here, or zapped altogether.

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RE: Does Lipstick on a Pig Now Equal Hockey Mom? - 9/10/2008 5:34:57 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		It's a great comment for those that take this kind of crap so seriously - get a grip, guys, there are serious things to talk about. Lipstick, how pathetic. Unless you think that whining over who said what to whom and in what form really matters, but it makes you look like playground tit for tatters. You remind me of the kid who always went to the teacher grassing on others .

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RE: Does Lipstick on a Pig Now Equal Hockey Mom? - 9/10/2008 5:38:46 AM   
Sanity


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The last numbers I've seen were hovering around 50%

http://www.foxnews.com/projects/pdf/Ras_allstates_090808_web.pdf

quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia


What is the current Administration's public approval rating? 10?

My memory is long, ask and you shall indeed receive.


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