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RE: The Deviding Issue-Palin's veiw Abortion - 9/10/2008 12:54:56 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline 		As others have pointed out, abortion isn't an act of faith it is a medical procedure. The argument is about the availability of that medical procedure and a woman's right to make the choice if she has that procedure or not.

Tha vast majority of abortions are done in the first eight weeks, 90% being carried out before twelve weeks. Thousands of women naturally abort a fetus in this time period every week because the fetus might have some deformity. An ambulance isn't sent out to rescue the fetus, simple because its not viable. Abortion isn't a huge step for most women, the psychological pressure comes from social pressure created by people with an absolute faith in what they believe. If they really believe women who have an abortion face god's wrath, then let god deal with it in his own time. In the mean time let women choose, it is their body and they are supposed to be free beings.

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RE: The Deviding Issue-Palin's veiw Abortion - 9/10/2008 1:31:46 AM   
corysub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: subtee

quote:

ORIGINAL: corysub

These women were finding it hard to vote for McCain (despite my pressure-lol) but changed in one night after hearing Governor Palin speak, seeing that woman on the ticket,  hearing what she has done, her positive and optimistic attitude and obvious love for her country.  The negatives they felt against McCain melted totally.


Do you have any idea what you're talking about? BAD sub! Palin is rabidly anti-choice, pro life, however you want to label it. Any women who were equivocating about McCain's position would not feel comforted by Palin's.

Bad sub.



Bad sub!  :(

I think what we decided was that while abortion was important, other issues could be better addressed by McCain/Palin.  The choice was between Obama and McCain as leaders of the country we could feel comfortable with for the future.  Obama is unproven and very risky in these difficult times. Shrugs. Only our view and others have their key button pushing concerns. 

(in reply to subtee)
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RE: The Deviding Issue-Palin's veiw Abortion - 9/10/2008 1:34:44 AM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: corysub
Obama is unproven and very risky in these difficult times. 



So is McCain.

_____________________________

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RE: The Deviding Issue-Palin's view Abortion - 9/10/2008 2:40:05 AM   
SilverMark


Posts: 3457
Joined: 5/9/2007
Status: offline 		I always get a bit disturbed with this topic...The single issue people on both sides are the least easy to understand and the most passionate in their beliefs. The supposed ultra Christian Right....(I really dislike the idea that anyone can call themselves Christian as they bomb clinics as here in Atlanta)   The single issue Pro-Choice that think it is ok for them to council minor girls without parental invovlvment....( I would only hope the girls parents can find it in themselves to help without anger and with understanding) I know that the hardest choice a woman may ever make may be involving what to do when finding themselves pregnant and unwed, or with a child that will be born with issues or a child that is a threat to her own health. I do not wish to choose for them, I do not want a politician to do so nor a judge....I simply wish for the woman to do what is correct for her and the unborn child. I would not judge Sarah Palin on her choice had she decided either way. There are so many other reasons I disagree with her stands on, that this one I can leave alone!

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RE: The Deviding Issue-Palin's veiw Abortion - 9/10/2008 4:04:19 AM   
Aynne88


Posts: 3873
Joined: 8/29/2008
Status: offline 		He also said:


You can always count on Americans to do the right thing - after they've tried everything else.

I am inclined to agree. Hopefully after the last two years and absolute debacle of the Bush administration we have indeed figured out the "right thing" and that does not include voting for a bitchy inexperienced neo-con fervid christian book banning anti-intellectual whack job like Sarah Palin and McSame.
Cull that.


quote:

ORIGINAL: angelique510


Greetings,
 
Contraception is not abortion. (Except for IUDs and the morning after pill - which do not prevent conception, but cause early miscarriage) But the easy availability of them to young and unmarried girls does give carte blanche to promiscuity, which leads to more abortions of convenience. And the ease of abortion causes even more promiscuity, because it relieves women of the consequences of their actions (except for STDs, but that's another topic.)
 
I am thrilled and amazed to see a female politician who is pro-life. This will be the first time in my life that I vote for a woman. Though I do believe that because she chose to marry, taking care of her husband and family should be her primary vocation - voting for her is much less distasteful to me than voting for her socialist opponent.
 
Winston Churchill said, "The measure of a civilization is how they treat their weakest members." I cannot think of a weaker member than the not yet born children. What does that say about our civilization?
 
Hey Thadius, I'll go with you to cull the liberals. But I say we start in Massachusettes, California, or even D.C. They're coming out of the woodwork like cockraoches there. :)
 
Be well,
~A


< Message edited by Aynne88 -- 9/10/2008 4:06:22 AM >

_____________________________

As long as people will shed the blood of innocent creatures there can be no peace, no liberty, no harmony between people. Slaughter and justice cannot dwell together.
—Isaac Bashevis Singer, writer and Nobel laureate (1902–1991)



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RE: The Deviding Issue-Palin's veiw Abortion - 9/10/2008 4:46:26 AM   
patwi


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Joined: 6/24/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: angelique510


But the easy availability of them to young and unmarried girls does give carte blanche to promiscuity, which leads to more abortions of convenience. And the ease of abortion causes even more promiscuity, because it relieves women of the consequences of their actions (except for STDs, but that's another topic.)
 
I am thrilled and amazed to see a female politician who is pro-life. This will be the first time in my life that I vote for a woman.
 
Be well,
~A


A couple of things....first off, I find it a tad offensive that you make a statement such as "abortion causes promiscuity." I'm pro choice. I'm hardly out there with my pants down, bent over for any guy who wants a ride. This is like me saying "Jesus encourages murder because in the end he can just forgive you anyway."


Second, you aren't voting Palin for President. You're still voting McCain. People seem to be losing that perspective and forgetting all about him.

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RE: The Deviding Issue-Palin's veiw Abortion - 9/10/2008 5:05:49 AM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: patwi

Second, you aren't voting Palin for President. You're still voting McCain. People seem to be losing that perspective and forgetting all about him.



That's true, but the way the conservatives have found a new object of devotion in Palin (and where's God, in all of this, hmmm?), and the media frenzy over her (liberal bias, my ass!),you'd think it was she who was running for president.

Another subject - to the people who have made 'jokes' about hunting liberals, culling them and killing them: you suck. Right wing people think it's funny when people die, but as they're supposedly defending life in utero, it's ironic, to say the least  .

< Message edited by kittinSol -- 9/10/2008 5:06:06 AM >

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RE: The Deviding Issue-Palin's veiw Abortion - 9/10/2008 5:33:30 AM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Right wing people think it's funny when people die, but as they're supposedly defending life in utero, it's ironic, to say the least  .


There's no stiff upper lip when rightwingers die though, they howl and howl.

Its been known for a long time in psychology that the flip side of sentimentality is cruelty, the flip side of cruelty, is sentimentality. These are both conservative traits, ignore rational thought and respond to emotion.

_____________________________

There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

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RE: The Deviding Issue-Palin's veiw Abortion - 9/10/2008 5:41:41 AM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

Its been known for a long time in psychology that the flip side of sentimentality is cruelty, the flip side of cruelty, is sentimentality. These are both conservative traits, ignore rational thought and respond to emotion.



Glorifying emotion over reason is the right's main weapon in winning over public opinion (see: Hitler, Mussolini, Franco, Thatcher, Bush, Sarkozy, Palin).

As for sentimentality... bingo. It makes me sick to my stomach: sentimentality is a travesty of feeling, something you can buy at Walmart.

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RE: The Deviding Issue-Palin's veiw Abortion - 9/10/2008 6:21:40 AM   
MissSCD


Posts: 1185
Joined: 3/10/2007
Status: offline 		There is not one thing funny about what the Republican party has done to our country in the last eight years.  Don't get me wrong.  I vote republican as well, but when it comes to the right to choose, I vote democrat. 
 
Regards, MissSCD
 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

quote:

ORIGINAL: MissSCD

This is why I vote the way I do.  This is a woman's basic right to choose.
 
http://www.theledger.com/article/20080909/NEWS/809090365/-1/WIRE04&title=Palin_Pick_Adds_Fuel_to_Abortion_Debate

Regards, MissSCD
 
Before you attack me, I personally do not believe in abortion.  I think women the right to choose with certain limitations.
 




This is straight from the RCN convention.

Sometimes the strongest points are made through humor.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=184097&title=Bristol-Palin's-Choice

(in reply to Owner59)
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RE: The Deviding Issue-Palin's veiw Abortion - 9/10/2008 6:26:09 AM   
Aileen1968


Posts: 6062
Joined: 12/12/2007
From: I miss Shore, New Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol
Nobody 'believes in abortion', I don't know why people keep on making this blanket statement. I realise your thread has good intentions, but your choice of words is all important when it comes to this issue. Abortion isn't a belief system.




I had a friend in high school who's preferred method of birth control was abortion.  Funny thing was...her father was a pharmacist and she was going to college to be a nurse.  She wasn't a friend for very long.  So yeah, to some people it is a belief system.

edited to fix the quote

< Message edited by Aileen1968 -- 9/10/2008 6:27:06 AM >

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RE: The Deviding Issue-Palin's veiw Abortion - 9/10/2008 6:27:33 AM   
MissSCD


Posts: 1185
Joined: 3/10/2007
Status: offline 		I think you are dead wrong on that one patwi.   We have more children having children that ever before in this country.  They do not choose abotion. 
Abortion itself is a right that does not need to be taken away. 
Besides, Palin's daughter is pregnant at 17.
We just don't know how to live anymore.  Nothing is right or wrong.
In my day, if you got pregant out of wedlock, you were shunned.  A lot of women were sent away from their own home in shame.  
It appears to be perfectly ok to have children while you are a child now days.    
 
Regards, MissSCD

quote:

ORIGINAL: patwi

quote:

ORIGINAL: angelique510


But the easy availability of them to young and unmarried girls does give carte blanche to promiscuity, which leads to more abortions of convenience. And the ease of abortion causes even more promiscuity, because it relieves women of the consequences of their actions (except for STDs, but that's another topic.)
 
I am thrilled and amazed to see a female politician who is pro-life. This will be the first time in my life that I vote for a woman.
 
Be well,
~A


A couple of things....first off, I find it a tad offensive that you make a statement such as "abortion causes promiscuity." I'm pro choice. I'm hardly out there with my pants down, bent over for any guy who wants a ride. This is like me saying "Jesus encourages murder because in the end he can just forgive you anyway."


Second, you aren't voting Palin for President. You're still voting McCain. People seem to be losing that perspective and forgetting all about him.


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RE: The Deviding Issue-Palin's veiw Abortion - 9/10/2008 6:39:22 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		I give my bro and sister the same advice...

anymore then  12 offspring  is too much....

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RE: The Deviding Issue-Palin's veiw Abortion - 9/10/2008 6:54:54 AM   
Bethnai


Posts: 492
Joined: 11/8/2007
Status: offline 		So, the problem is morality and we should revert to "shunning"? 

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RE: The Deviding Issue-Palin's veiw Abortion - 9/10/2008 7:11:33 AM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bethnai

So, the problem is morality and we should revert to "shunning"? 


Morality is a problem for moralists, they are the ones that don't seem to be able to live up to the standards they expect of others.

Abortion has nothing to do with morality, that's for moralists, for everyone else, it is a rational choice one way or the other.

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 9/10/2008 7:13:01 AM >

_____________________________

There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

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RE: The Deviding Issue-Palin's veiw Abortion - 9/10/2008 7:16:26 AM   
Bethnai


Posts: 492
Joined: 11/8/2007
Status: offline 		I really want to hear about how it is we don't know how to live any more and there is no right or wrong.


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RE: The Deviding Issue-Palin's veiw Abortion - 9/10/2008 7:26:27 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bethnai

I really want to hear about how it is we don't know how to live any more and there is no right or wrong.




There never has been right or wrong, that is the nature of the world we live in. One should make judgements on ones actions depending on the necessity for oneself and one's impact on others. Abortion only impacts on the woman that is pregnant and not the rest of society so it shouldn't be the rest of society's concern what the woman chooses.

Conservatives would have us back in the good old days where we all knew our place, doffed our caps to the powers that be and thank them for making decisions for us and throwing us a few crumbs from their growning table. Morals are there to fill us with guilt and keep us in our place.

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 9/10/2008 7:27:22 AM >

_____________________________

There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

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Profile   Post #: 57
RE: The Deviding Issue-Palin's veiw Abortion - 9/10/2008 7:32:41 AM   
subtee


Posts: 5133
Joined: 7/26/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: corysub
Bad sub!  :(

I think what we decided was that while abortion was important, other issues could be better addressed by McCain/Palin.  The choice was between Obama and McCain as leaders of the country we could feel comfortable with for the future.  Obama is unproven and very risky in these difficult times. Shrugs. Only our view and others have their key button pushing concerns. 


I'm sorry, that wasn't kind at all. I'm sure you're a very good sub.

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Don't believe everything you think...

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RE: The Deviding Issue-Palin's veiw Abortion - 9/10/2008 7:42:27 AM   
Bethnai


Posts: 492
Joined: 11/8/2007
Status: offline 		I am aware of this, Meatcleaver and I share that view.

However, children having children has steadily declined since the 1950's with a rise in 2006.  I want to hear the reasoning behind her statements.
A belief in a yesteryear is not just shared by Republicans. Although, at times they do seem to be more vocal about it.


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RE: The Deviding Issue-Palin's view Abortion - 9/10/2008 7:45:54 AM   
Racquelle


Posts: 600
Joined: 4/21/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverMark    ...council minor girls without parental invovlvment....( I would only hope the girls parents can find it in themselves to help without anger and with understanding)
  All kinds of people speak to minors about all kinds of things without parental involvement.  That said, an overwhelming majority of young women who seek abortions discuss the issue with their parents, and are typically encouraged to do so by whomever they seek advice from (Planned Parenthood, Family Planning Associates, school counselors, teachers.).  Those who don't, very likely have good reason.  And if it is so important that these young girls talk to their parents, where are the laws insisting that the boys also speak with their parents?  The purpose of parental notification laws is not to encourage young people to seek parental support - it is to create fear and manipulate the vulnerable.

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