Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: The Deviding Issue-Palin's veiw Abortion


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> RE: The Deviding Issue-Palin's veiw Abortion Page: <<   < prev  6 7 [8] 9 10   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: The Deviding Issue-Palin's veiw Abortion - 9/14/2008 5:11:33 AM   
Lorr47


Posts: 862
Joined: 3/13/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

I am staying out of the abortion discussion.  I am not even making judgements on moral character, what I am suggesting is that none of us know enough about what happens in their home.  Which means that speculation about her being a terrible mother to her children is nothing more than speculation and opinion.  It is as simple as that.

Just like I don't know what goes on behind the closed doors of the Obama home, and I am not going to speculate.


I submit that you should not stay out of the debate nor should you say it is one  involving  morality.  I married late to a woman who had a widowed mother and 16 brothers and sisters.  I should have seen the Pro life express coming.  Most of my adult life has been spent (wasted) supporting that mother in law and at various times the Pro Life children.  I reached retirement age with about 1/5000 of what I should have accumulated but had to have a day off and retired.  Next thing I find is a 16 year old step grand child at my door with a 2 year old and a 2 month old.  Her Pro Life parents convinced her to have the children but of course bailed out after birth as did the Pro Life sperm doner.  Six months later I have $13k  to $15 k in the situation because I could not throw them out in the street, and despite 3 strokes, I am getting the suits out again to go back to an occupation I detested.  No, I will not be allowed to read fiction in my sixties at a quite security guard job.  When someone says they are Pro Life I grab my wallet and ask how many will I have to support this time.  Most Pro Life  true believers can be that way because after the birth they bail out and leave suckers like me to carry the load.

< Message edited by Lorr47 -- 9/14/2008 5:26:12 AM >

(in reply to Thadius)
Profile   Post #: 141
RE: The Deviding Issue-Palin's veiw Abortion - 9/20/2008 7:18:25 PM   
lostkitten2


Posts: 30
Joined: 7/1/2008
Status: offline 		Thadius, as a teacher and mother and the daughter of a "working liberated mom" I can tell you from experience, that there are very few couples who can both work and parent their children effectively. You can be as offended as you want. I am offended that children have to grow up so fast that they become the ones responsible for themselves and their families. You are right, I don't know Palin's personal life, but I can tell you exactly what it's like to be the daughter of a woman with a career, and it sucks. Children need their Mommies, and I am tired of everyone thinking they are "just fine." Or that they "will survive." Shouldn't we want more for our children than surviving? SHouldn't we want more for them than becoming parents themselves at 17? Shouldn't we want them to be children? Isn't that a right they should have in being born? To be cared for, loved, given plenty of affection and attention as if each one were a special gift instead of another possession??

(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 142
RE: The Deviding Issue-Palin's veiw Abortion - 9/20/2008 7:42:18 PM   
lostkitten2


Posts: 30
Joined: 7/1/2008
Status: offline 		There actually was a very recent (last year?) vote to try to make abortion illegal again. I remember going to planned parenthood and asking why they didn't organize any rallies, to which they said that although there was a vote, they were not particularly worried about losing the right to choose.


responding to rulemylife, in agreement:
considering that is not a decision he had power over, the answer is no. He did do everything within his power to promote that cause though.


SOrry, I forgot how to quote. I'll do better next time. I'm still vanila

< Message edited by lostkitten2 -- 9/20/2008 7:53:48 PM >

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 143
RE: The Deviding Issue-Palin's veiw Abortion - 9/20/2008 7:43:21 PM   
lostkitten2


Posts: 30
Joined: 7/1/2008
Status: offline 		re: rulemylife:
So then, by your comments, I take it you would support legislation that gives the father, regardless of whether they are married, a legal voice in the decision of an abortion.


If they will sign a document promising financial responsibility and parenting involvement (I don't mean feeding them poptarts and patting them on the head once a week.)

< Message edited by lostkitten2 -- 9/20/2008 7:52:00 PM >

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 144
RE: The Deviding Issue-Palin's veiw Abortion - 9/20/2008 7:50:02 PM   
lostkitten2


Posts: 30
Joined: 7/1/2008
Status: offline 		The reality is that women have the choice. Men get to influence that choice, but ultimately it is the woman's choice whether or not to listen. She also bears all the responsibility for that choice.

As a parent I knew at four months a soul was "threre."

As a Biologist, premed, I know that a fetus is basically a parasite, unable to live without my support, feeding off me. Not all parasites are "bad." SOme are very helpful, such as the bacteria in our intestines. I don't know what I would be without my kids. They are my purpose.

Given that many men walk out when raising children gets uncomfortable, and women don't as often, then the men tend to get to choose whether or not to parent that child. Many men do choose to walk back and try again, but it's still a choice, while we still wipe noses and kiss owies and hold them when they cry in pain.

Trust me, it does not end at 18. For those that love their kids, it goes on forever, you always want to protect them from pain. THose that don't have loving parents who want to raise them and love them and feed them and care for them and be RESPONSIBLE for them and their choices, should abort.

I am getting a little tired of parenting the world, just because I am good at it.

Parent your own kids. Help them make good choices and be kind to their fellow humans, heck animals too, and plants, try living beings, but starting with humans is good! That is what the Christian message is about. Christ knew nothing about abortions and has no opinion, except that if you do, you are forgiven and you still get to go to heaven.

It's about forgiveness, to others and ourselves, because then we tend to make choices based on love and faith in humans, instead of based on revenge.

When will that be the Christian Right's message???

< Message edited by lostkitten2 -- 9/20/2008 7:58:34 PM >

(in reply to Lorr47)
Profile   Post #: 145
RE: The Deviding Issue-Palin's veiw Abortion - 9/20/2008 8:42:53 PM   
lostkitten2


Posts: 30
Joined: 7/1/2008
Status: offline 		Ok, about the "abortion facts" If a woman wants to repeatedly get an abortion, instead of taking the pill, or wearing a condom, that is her business, not ours.

There are many unhealthy things Americans do, and we don't make it illegal. How about making it illegal to supersize? Or illegal to drink so much you become an alcoholic and damage your whole family permanantly?

THe point is, it's not for the gov't to parent us and so NO.

(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 146
RE: The Deviding Issue-Palin's veiw Abortion - 9/20/2008 9:47:02 PM   
Hippiekinkster


Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Nobody 'believes in abortion', I don't know why people keep on making this blanket statement. I realise your thread has good intentions, but your choice of words is all important when it comes to this issue. Abortion isn't a belief system.

You know, kitten, excellent point. I don't "believe" in abortion. That is to say, I don't think abortion exists or doesn't exist. It does.

Better to ask, "do you think that women should be able to obtain abortions?" I don't think the question can be phrased more neutrally than that.

And my answer is YES. I support Freedom. That Freedom includes the right to decide what is going to happen to one's body. Some Rightie laughed at that the other day, but that is what it boils down to for me.

Who has the right to control your body? The State? (that includes any jurisdiction, down to the Moes, Larrys, and Curlies who comprise the town councils in, say, FrozenMooseDick, AK 

Can someone explain to me why the Re******** are so opposed to Personal Freedom, but are such staunch supporters of Corporate Freedom? The oppose the right to Choose, they oppose the right to ingest MJ, they oppose  collective bargaining, they oppose people voluntarily establishing a single-payer health system, they oppose educating America's children, they oppose safe drugs and foods, they oppose any regulation of the {s]casinos Financial markets, they oppose any collective action on the part of individuals.

But they staunchly support Corporate Welfare (I invite you all to do a little research and see if the dollar amount of subsidies, tax breaks, credits, and so on, for Big Business doesn't exceed by an order of magnitude the money that goes to children's health insurance, neonatal care, school lunch programs, day care, and other such tax-dollar entitlement giveaways socially useful programs. Just google "corporate welfare.

I think this would be an excellent pH.D. Thesis. "The Transfer of Wealth from the Middle Class to Corporations". Might uncover some little-known facts, like how medium income, adjusted, has dropped under the Repubs while the top 1 % have made out like bandits. (Well, they ARE bandits; that's how they got all that money). How all mortgage risk has been transferred from the loan originators to the taxpayers. (there was actually some dildo on another board whose "analysis" boiled down to "It's all Barney Frank's fault." Un-frakking-believable.) How a little-known 200 SEC rule "exemption" allowed the 5 "best capitalized" trading/investment banking firms to have as low as 2.5% margins (that's 40:1 leverage, folks.  That means, you put up USD25K you can control USD1MM in "assets" (bullshit debt paper). That was straight Bush and Greenspan.)

A famous "Investment Advisor (read: flake who got it right once out of a billion times), Joe Granville, called all the people at the end of a Ponzi scheme "bagholders". We, my friends, are the bagholders. The criminals have gotten away Scot-free. Again. haven't you folks ever noticed that from Silverado to the RTC to Enron and Global Crossing; from McCain's Keating Five bribes on up to the Phony Mae and Fraudy Mac debacles, HARDLY ANYONE goes to jail? You think there's equal justice under the law in the US?

The US Treasury is the biggest Ponzi scheme of all, and the Repubs have perfected the theft from. And the people who are responsible, they won't even have to give up a dime. They are traitors who should be prosecuted under the RICO laws at the very least, but they won't be. They are role models for "How to Get Deregulation to Work For You".

In normal times, I listen to thwe tax protestors, and don't heed them, because I understand that taxes, in a well-regulated society, benefit everybody. But now, thanks to the absolutely insane Dogam of the Chicago School of Economics and the Bushevik ideologues, I believe it to be Patriotic to cheat on your taxes as much as you can.

When those motherfuckers in D.C. actually start regulating and prosecuting, I might reconsider. But now it's every man for himself.

_____________________________

"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 147
RE: The Deviding Issue-Palin's veiw Abortion - 9/21/2008 5:03:21 AM   
caitlyn


Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster
quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol
Nobody 'believes in abortion', I don't know why people keep on making this blanket statement. I realise your thread has good intentions, but your choice of words is all important when it comes to this issue. Abortion isn't a belief system.


You know, kitten, excellent point. I don't "believe" in abortion. That is to say, I don't think abortion exists or doesn't exist. It does.


I think terms like that get used, perhaps inaccurately, when one looks at the numbers attached to abortion.
 
I don't know if anyone "believes" in abortion ... this is up to each individual to decide. I do know however, that many people believe in abortion as a form of birth control. That is measurable. Another measurable is that many see it as a "get out of jail free card" to engage in unprotected sex. I even went to High School with someone that enjoyed the drama rush of motherhood, and has had several abortions.
 
Now, one segment of our society wants to fund all this with taxpayer dollars.
 
At what point does "the right to control what happens to your body", become the right to actually take some responsibility for what happens to your body?

_____________________________

I wish I could buy back ...
the woman you stole.

(in reply to Hippiekinkster)
Profile   Post #: 148
RE: The Deviding Issue-Palin's veiw Abortion - 9/21/2008 6:06:25 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		I do not "believe in abortion", nor do I want to pay for it. However, I do not want to pay for a bunch of kids born to parent/s that could not support them either. It's a catch 22 that has no simple answer, regardless which side of the debate you are on. The town I work in, the clinic is privately funded. I may not that aspect of what they do, but I also do not feel it is my "right" to pass judgement on either the clinicians or those utilizing their services.

The thing that continually pisses me off about the religious right is their conviction that they have the "right" to pass judgement on anyone different, in any way, than they are. Hense my severe distaste for that particular facet of our human community.

The very fact that electing John McCain gives Sarah Palin pretty good odds at the big desk in the white house upsets me. She has proven that she is a bit too religious right for my comfort. Especially given that our next president will very likely to have the task of appointing a supreme court justice or two.

Religion and politics do NOT belong at the same table. No way, no how.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to caitlyn)
Profile   Post #: 149
RE: The Deviding Issue-Palin's veiw Abortion - 9/21/2008 8:45:10 AM   
corysub


Posts: 1492
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MissSCD

This is why I vote the way I do.  This is a woman's basic right to choose.
 
http://www.theledger.com/article/20080909/NEWS/809090365/-1/WIRE04&title=Palin_Pick_Adds_Fuel_to_Abortion_Debate

Regards, MissSCD
 
Before you attack me, I personally do not believe in abortion.  I think women the right to choose with certain limitations.
 



Although I am also against abortion for "birth control" the way some woman who have had multiple abortions at taxpayer expense seem to use the system, no matter what the reason, a woman should have the right to choose what she does with her body.  I don't think any of our religious, ethical or moral views should have any say against the wishes of another person, as long as those wishes do not impact my life.  Whatever makes you happy is great...life is too short not to be happy.  But, please, don't ask me to pay for your lifestyle.

(in reply to MissSCD)
Profile   Post #: 150
RE: The Deviding Issue-Palin's veiw Abortion - 9/21/2008 8:46:57 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline 		Ironically religion plays a big part in the USA having so many abortions because religious groups prevent American adolences getting the information and education they need on sexual issues.

Just compare the figures between the USA, France, Germany, Netherlands

http://www.religioustolerance.org/pregadol.htm

Ironically, if you are against abortion, you are better voting for a progressive party than a conservative one that believes in banning abortion.

So don't vote McCain/Palin.

_____________________________

There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

(in reply to caitlyn)
Profile   Post #: 151
RE: The Deviding Issue-Palin's veiw Abortion - 9/21/2008 8:50:54 AM   
corysub


Posts: 1492
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: chiaThePet


I was pondering on what percentage of the unborn might have registered to vote.

Contributing to the overall outcome of the election and the selection of our leaders.

Ironic isn't it.

chia* (the pet)

'
I have been thinking the same chia.... Over 30 million abortions in this country...how many would be registering D or R when they came of age...how many would have been scientists that might discover the cure for cancer, heart disease, autism..etc...how many genious minds destroyed in the bud.   No answer  to that, of course...but something to think about.  Goes beyond politics. 

(in reply to chiaThePet)
Profile   Post #: 152
RE: The Deviding Issue-Palin's veiw Abortion - 9/21/2008 11:13:19 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster
quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol
Nobody 'believes in abortion', I don't know why people keep on making this blanket statement. I realise your thread has good intentions, but your choice of words is all important when it comes to this issue. Abortion isn't a belief system.


You know, kitten, excellent point. I don't "believe" in abortion. That is to say, I don't think abortion exists or doesn't exist. It does.


I think terms like that get used, perhaps inaccurately, when one looks at the numbers attached to abortion.
 
I don't know if anyone "believes" in abortion ... this is up to each individual to decide. I do know however, that many people believe in abortion as a form of birth control. That is measurable. Another measurable is that many see it as a "get out of jail free card" to engage in unprotected sex. I even went to High School with someone that enjoyed the drama rush of motherhood, and has had several abortions.
 
Now, one segment of our society wants to fund all this with taxpayer dollars.
 
At what point does "the right to control what happens to your body", become the right to actually take some responsibility for what happens to your body?


I do know however, that many people believe in abortion as a form of birth control.
 
You seem to make that point a lot.
 
Funny,I don`t know a single person nor have I ever heard about a friend of a friend who says that.

The two women I know who had them were not at all happy about it and would never ever want to go through that ordeal again.

Just who are these "many people "who say this?

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 9/21/2008 11:15:41 AM >

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to caitlyn)
Profile   Post #: 153
RE: The Deviding Issue-Palin's veiw Abortion - 9/21/2008 11:36:29 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: corysub

quote:

ORIGINAL: chiaThePet


I was pondering on what percentage of the unborn might have registered to vote.

Contributing to the overall outcome of the election and the selection of our leaders.

Ironic isn't it.

chia* (the pet)

'
I have been thinking the same chia.... Over 30 million abortions in this country...how many would be registering D or R when they came of age...how many would have been scientists that might discover the cure for cancer, heart disease, autism..etc...how many genious minds destroyed in the bud.   No answer  to that, of course...but something to think about.  Goes beyond politics. 



 
 
When you consider that the religious right/fundie types(like Palin), seek to limit and/or outlaw contraception and every other means by which to prevent un-wanted pregnancy,one must wonder WTF these extremists are after.

They tried to prevent RU486 from being made available.And did so for several years,until Hillary held up a bill that the cons really,really wanted.

That`s how that particular morning-after-pill got put on the market.Thank you Hillary and screw the faith-healing fundie Dr. put in charge of the FDA,who held it up.Think that`ll change under Palin-McCain? It`ll only get worse.

They want to prevent to most vulnerable amongst us,from getting contraception and are fighting tooth and nail against getting contraception in the hands of those who need it most.

My question,if the Palins of the world are so against abortion,why all the effort to fight against contraception?

We know how well abstinence only has worked out,don`t we?

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 9/21/2008 11:44:00 AM >

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to corysub)
Profile   Post #: 154
RE: The Deviding Issue-Palin's veiw Abortion - 9/21/2008 1:07:06 PM   
Irishknight


Posts: 2016
Joined: 9/30/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

Ironically religion plays a big part in the USA having so many abortions because religious groups prevent American adolences getting the information and education they need on sexual issues.


And I thought it was people fucking that caused it.  I am only against the state paying for abortions as birth control.  I believe that if a woman has the state pay for more than one abortion, her tubes should be tied as a mandatory procedure.  I should not have to pay taxes for her lack of self control.  Once is a mistake.  Two or three times is a habit.
On a personal note, if I was with a woman who aborted my child, Iwould never see her again.  I love kids and want more.  My wife and I had this discussion when we got married.  It is why we used birth controlfor the first 2 1/2 years of our marriage.

(in reply to meatcleaver)
Profile   Post #: 155
RE: The Deviding Issue-Palin's veiw Abortion - 9/21/2008 1:07:25 PM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		Thank you for the link, meatcleaver.  I will add that there is a correlation between the health care crisis in the US and the number of unwanted pregnancies.  IMO, the former contributes directly to the latter.  But that is a whole other thread.
 
For those concerned about their tax dollars, if someone does not have the funds to pay for an abortion is it very likely that they do not have the economic ability to raise an unmentionable.  So either way your tax dollars will be supporting their lifestyle.

_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE


http://KinkMeet.co.uk

(in reply to meatcleaver)
Profile   Post #: 156
RE: The Deviding Issue-Palin's veiw Abortion - 9/21/2008 2:41:37 PM   
lostkitten2


Posts: 30
Joined: 7/1/2008
Status: offline 		People in the habit of abusing their bodies by having repeated abortions for their negligence (may I remind you all of the morning after pill option we all have as well?) are people who will raise negligent selfish children as well.

So I personally would prefer to pay for a $600 procedure than a $100,000 kid/human.




(in reply to Vendaval)
Profile   Post #: 157
RE: The Deviding Issue-Palin's veiw Abortion - 9/21/2008 8:05:17 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Irishknight

I believe that if a woman has the state pay for more than one abortion, her tubes should be tied as a mandatory procedure.  I should not have to pay taxes for her lack of self control.  Once is a mistake.  Two or three times is a habit.



So you support snipping off the balls of the irresponsible bastard who impregnates her the first time, or do you wait for him to make a few more crap shots before castrating him?

_____________________________



(in reply to Irishknight)
Profile   Post #: 158
RE: The Deviding Issue-Palin's veiw Abortion - 9/21/2008 8:09:23 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		Castrating does sound a tad harsh.....might we just snip snip the asshole?

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 159
RE: The Deviding Issue-Palin's veiw Abortion - 9/21/2008 8:13:18 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		I know: let's snip all the males at birth, like that they can't commit any more pregnancies, and women will still be able to procreate with frozen spunk if and when they choose to  . Hey presto: everybody's happy (except for the millions of drama queens out there who enjoy getting terminations, such crazies, with their attention seeking behaviour, getting up the duff on purpose, just so that they can go on the operating table, oh well, no more fun for them ).

_____________________________



(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 160
Page:   <<   < prev  6 7 [8] 9 10   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> RE: The Deviding Issue-Palin's veiw Abortion Page: <<   < prev  6 7 [8] 9 10   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.094