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RE: The Deviding Issue-Palin's veiw Abortion - 9/21/2008 8:21:47 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
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From: United States
Status: offline 		Would someone please tell me just how many woman are getting pregnant multiple times and having abortions on the taxpayer dime.This sounds an awful lot like the welfare mothers driving Cadillacs....a red herring to move the discussion and rediculous on its face...Please someone come up with a number for these troublesome woman...

< Message edited by slvemike4u -- 9/21/2008 8:22:49 PM >

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RE: The Deviding Issue-Palin's veiw Abortion - 9/21/2008 8:24:12 PM   
curvyslavegirl


Posts: 134
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		She's also against the states paying for rape evidence collection kits.
In fact, making sure that victims paid for their own evidence collection was one of her "proudest moments".

Her issues with women go WAY beyond pregnancy.

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RE: The Deviding Issue-Palin's veiw Abortion - 9/21/2008 8:24:46 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		Don't know, but all the women I know who've done it (murderesses that we are) did either on their own dime, or had insurance, or else it was in Europe, where, as you know, there is a healthcare system.

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RE: The Deviding Issue-Palin's veiw Abortion - 9/21/2008 8:26:40 PM   
slvemike4u


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Don't know, but all the women I know who've done it (murderesses that we are) did either on their own dime, or had insurance, or else it was in Europe, where, as you know, there is a healthcare system.
See,and everybodys getting worked up over nothing...it was the same way with the welfare moms and the Cadillacs

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RE: The Deviding Issue-Palin's veiw Abortion - 9/21/2008 8:42:46 PM   
kittinSol


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RE: The Deviding Issue-Palin's veiw Abortion - 9/21/2008 9:16:55 PM   
caitlyn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u
Would someone please tell me just how many woman are getting pregnant multiple times and having abortions on the taxpayer dime.This sounds an awful lot like the welfare mothers driving Cadillacs....a red herring to move the discussion and rediculous on its face...Please someone come up with a number for these troublesome woman...


If you read my quote a bit more carefully, I think you will find that I didn't indicate that large numbers of people were currently getting abortions on taxpayer dollars ... but did indicate, that this is the plan for the future as part of several universal healthcare plans being currently promoted.
 
As far as repeat abortions, statistics by every reputable source on either side of this issue, state that about half of the terminations in the United States are by someone that has already terminated a pregnancy in the past. This research is readily available from any number of non-partisan groups.

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RE: The Deviding Issue-Palin's veiw Abortion - 9/21/2008 9:17:03 PM   
bamabbwsub


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quote:

And I thought it was people fucking that caused it.  I am only against the state paying for abortions as birth control.  I believe that if a woman has the state pay for more than one abortion, her tubes should be tied as a mandatory procedure.  I should not have to pay taxes for her lack of self control.  Once is a mistake.  Two or three times is a habit.


And do you believe that men who father multiple children from different mothers should have a mandatory vasectomy as well?  I hope so.

Don't get me wrong -- I don't want to pay for multiple abortions either.  Heck, condoms, the Pill, IUDs, etc. are a lot cheaper and safer.  But your post seems to imply that women are more liable for getting pregnant than the men who impregnate them, and I can assure you that the women aren't getting pregnant all by themselves.

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RE: The Deviding Issue-Palin's veiw Abortion - 9/21/2008 9:51:57 PM   
caitlyn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse
The thing that continually pisses me off about the religious right is their conviction that they have the "right" to pass judgement on anyone different, in any way, than they are. Hense my severe distaste for that particular facet of our human community. 


I would agree with this ... but only on the same level of my severe distaste for the judgemental attitude by members of our own party, for those with a point of view not aligned with their own.
 
Look at the conduct on this board, by really, most of the members of our own party. Quite embarrassing actually ... and always with the none too subtle, "you elected Bush" innuendo thrown in ... as of our side has never laid a stinker of their own.

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RE: The Deviding Issue-Palin's veiw Abortion - 9/21/2008 10:20:26 PM   
Owner59


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quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse
The thing that continually pisses me off about the religious right is their conviction that they have the "right" to pass judgement on anyone different, in any way, than they are. Hense my severe distaste for that particular facet of our human community. 


I would agree with this ... but only on the same level of my severe distaste for the judgemental attitude by members of our own party, for those with a point of view not aligned with their own.
 
Look at the conduct on this board, by really, most of the members of our own party. Quite embarrassing actually ... and always with the none too subtle, "you elected Bush" innuendo thrown in ... as of our side has never laid a stinker of their own.




The Iraq debacle and the lying liars who got us into it.4000 plus GIs killed for little more than neo-con talking points.Over a hundred thousand Iraqis killed.over a million refugees.

The near destruction of our economy ,a depression era foreclosure rate and 4 dollar gas.Wages flat with inflation rising ,equaling a pay cut.

Tossing habeus corpus,the right to privacy and the moratorium against torture out the window.Plamegate,New Orleans,Georgia,North Korea nuke start-up.

Those are some pretty stinky stinkers.

And of course, those who support Bush should be taken to task over it.I mean,after the last 8 years,anyone who still defends Bush, deserves what they get.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Can we hear your list of democratic stinkers?

I`ll take a bj in the Oval Office over this mess, any day of the week.

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RE: The Deviding Issue-Palin's veiw Abortion - 9/21/2008 10:47:02 PM   
Venatrix


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quote:

ORIGINAL: corysub

I have been thinking the same chia.... Over 30 million abortions in this country...how many would be registering D or R when they came of age...how many would have been scientists that might discover the cure for cancer, heart disease, autism..etc...how many genious minds destroyed in the bud.   No answer  to that, of course...but something to think about.  Goes beyond politics. 


Using that logic, we can also ask ourselves how many murderers, rapists, and drug dealers got aborted, too. That's a lot more likely than destroying a genius.

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RE: The Deviding Issue-Palin's veiw Abortion - 9/22/2008 4:04:00 AM   
Bethnai


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Status: offline 		or those born with coke in the system. The number of those that have encredible challenges are amazing.  Immediately removed and then go from foster home to foster home.  Some grow up in an institution and then cannot function with out it. Not enough resources to address the problem. Nobody wants to adopt them. They are somebody elses problem.

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RE: The Deviding Issue-Palin's veiw Abortion - 9/22/2008 4:55:04 AM   
caitlyn


Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline 		Members of our party also voted to go to Iraq ... certainly a huge factor in the economic difficulties of the day. Quite inconvenient, I suppose.

I'm also curious about how a President from our party would have kept North Korea from gaining nukes.

Reference your previous question concerning abortion as birth control,

http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/fb_induced_abortion.html

Exactly what would you call figures like these?






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RE: The Deviding Issue-Palin's veiw Abortion - 9/22/2008 5:00:17 AM   
thishereboi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

I do not "believe in abortion", nor do I want to pay for it. However, I do not want to pay for a bunch of kids born to parent/s that could not support them either. It's a catch 22 that has no simple answer, regardless which side of the debate you are on. The town I work in, the clinic is privately funded. I may not that aspect of what they do, but I also do not feel it is my "right" to pass judgement on either the clinicians or those utilizing their services.

The thing that continually pisses me off about the religious right is their conviction that they have the "right" to pass judgement on anyone different, in any way, than they are. Hense my severe distaste for that particular facet of our human community.

The very fact that electing John McCain gives Sarah Palin pretty good odds at the big desk in the white house upsets me. She has proven that she is a bit too religious right for my comfort. Especially given that our next president will very likely to have the task of appointing a supreme court justice or two.

Religion and politics do NOT belong at the same table. No way, no how.


The thing that pisses me off, is the constant implication that all this is coming from the right. I have met far to many christians on the left who are just as much against abortion as the right, but no one brings them up. Its like they don't realize that there are christians on both sides and they can be equally as nasty about abortion.



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RE: The Deviding Issue-Palin's veiw Abortion - 9/22/2008 6:11:14 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		You personally disagree with a medical procedure and the idea alone makes you angry:  see your distatesful comment about making abortion more dangerous, see how you suddenly make terminations an economic matter when all your other arguments failed. But your personal opinion has no bearing on availability, and neither should it - by your logic, poor women should not have access to the procedure because they can't pay for it. It's ethically wrong, no matter what you believe. You are entitled to your opinion: women are entitled to their right to choose. And rightfully so.

Incidentally, if you don't like it, then don't do it - you make it sound like you're unlikely to ever need it anyway. You're awfully judgemental, for someone who claims to disapproving of judging others, but your vision and experience aren't universal truths. Some things are a terrible fact of life, a little like war, and abortion is one of these things.

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RE: The Deviding Issue-Palin's veiw Abortion - 9/22/2008 6:43:30 AM   
Lucylastic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol
snip
I know: let's snip all the males at birth, like that they can't commit any more pregnancies, and women will still be able to procreate with frozen spunk if and when they choose to  . end of snip.

Kitten I've been thinking this for some time, but people were strangely quiet about it, I wonder why that is,
Ive read the figures at the guttmacher site, regarding repeat abortions, turns out that the number given, was based on a 10,000 women study done in one year(2000). A lot more information, figures etc can  be found here  http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/journals/3422602.html which is the actual source data of the one particular study.
Lucy


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RE: The Deviding Issue-Palin's veiw Abortion - 9/22/2008 9:34:19 AM   
Irishknight


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Status: offline 		Since it has been asked at least twice, if a male fathers children he is unwilling to support, I agree that he should get the ability to father taken away.  If I can be fined because my dog got another dog knocked up I should have the same level of responsibility with my own pecker.

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RE: The Deviding Issue-Palin's veiw Abortion - 9/22/2008 9:43:59 AM   
mzbehavin


Posts: 253
Joined: 1/15/2008
Status: offline 		It may be worth noting that medicaid doesnt pay for women having their tubes tied, and not every woman can successfully take birth control. I find it odd the Govt would pay for abortions for lower income women, but not tubal litigation.
Kind of like how insurance pays for mens viagra but not womens birth control. It is ridiculous.
Up the list someone said Palins proudest moment was making rape victims pay for their own kits? Proudest moment? Seriously? May want to sort the facts on that one.


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RE: The Deviding Issue-Palin's veiw Abortion - 9/22/2008 9:53:48 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		Except that you are not a dog, and that there is something called free will, which a dog officially doesn't have (this is arguable, but fact of the matter is that human beings snip dogs, and dogs don't snip us - though I bet you animals would love to neuter us). Not everyone makes the most of our very human ability to exercise our free will, but it's not up to me to judge others - medical procedures are nothing more than that and medicine has its own code of ethics.

Unless you wish to start arguing that smokers shouldn't get cancer treatment, fat people should be left to starve, people who fall off horses and break a limb shouldn't have their legs mended, teachers should be denied trauma counselling, soldiers should be left to die bleeding on the battlefield... because all these people asked for it. Right? And how do you propose to forcefully sterilise people? There's a thread on eugenism next door: I recommend your add your reflexions on the subject over there.


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RE: The Deviding Issue-Palin's veiw Abortion - 9/22/2008 10:01:41 AM   
Mercnbeth


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quote:

It may be worth noting that medicaid doesnt pay for women having their tubes tied


not true in California.   Medi-cal WILL pay for tubal ligations AND vasectomies as part of it's family planning services, but will NOT pay for a hysterectomy if the only reason for it is to render the woman sterile.
 

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RE: The Deviding Issue-Palin's veiw Abortion - 9/22/2008 10:10:34 AM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lostkitten2

re: rulemylife:
So then, by your comments, I take it you would support legislation that gives the father, regardless of whether they are married, a legal voice in the decision of an abortion.


If they will sign a document promising financial responsibility and parenting involvement (I don't mean feeding them poptarts and patting them on the head once a week.)


Yes, of course.

There are already legal avenues that can be pursued for child support, regardless of a signed document.

My point is there are no legal avenues for the father to have a say either way.

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