RE: Feminism and the Strap-on (philosophical) (Full Version)

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bipolarber -> RE: Feminism and the Strap-on (philosophical) (9/10/2008 9:00:51 PM)

I suppose this question of yours hinges on if you consider penetration to be an act of dominance, or merely another sexual act in a rather large arsenal of possible pleasures.

True, when I am being taken by a woman in strap on play, I DO feel a certain sense of being "claimed" by her... much the same way I feel when I'm playing with another man. "In sex, as in life, there are those who are the fuck-ors, and those who are the fuck-ees," as one of my early Dommes once said to me. I've always felt that her view was a bit skewed, since when we played, she often "commanded me" to be on top. This sort of undercut her philosophy that having her vac-u-lock was the equivilent to brandishing a sceptre.

I tend to think of it as the latter... one act in a pallette of many. Being taken by a strap on is no more a submissive act than is kneeling to give her head... it's the context that brings those qualities into play... A stick can be a useful tool, a weapon, or a means of helping you walk, or fuel for a fire... it all depends on who picks it up, and what their needs are.

After all, all those sex shops and all those web sites across the USA selling these units are not selling to just BDSM couples. They would have been a financial failure, if they had. No, they are selling to all sorts of people, of all orientation and all variation of desire.

I doubt that you can really draw any kind of over arcing conclusion, due to the vast diversity involved.





Racquelle -> RE: Feminism and the Strap-on (philosophical) (9/10/2008 9:09:04 PM)

 
quote:

ORIGINAL: NotNutsReally

This is a ridiculous thread. Let's not confuse and degrade the attempts by brave women and men to equalize our society with our erotic imaginations and our eroticized conceptions of power.
  How perfectly stated.  Thank you.




Untouched1282 -> RE: Feminism and the Strap-on (philosophical) (9/10/2008 10:11:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Racquelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: NotNutsReally

This is a ridiculous thread. Let's not confuse and degrade the attempts by brave women and men to equalize our society with our erotic imaginations and our eroticized conceptions of power.
  How perfectly stated.  Thank you.



Yet another person who can't contextualize.




spiritd1 -> RE: Feminism and the Strap-on (philosophical) (9/10/2008 10:40:30 PM)

As I see it women are superior as a woman can have many orgasms in a row and men can have one and then they have to rest before they can cum again. I ask you who is superior?




Untouched1282 -> RE: Feminism and the Strap-on (philosophical) (9/10/2008 10:56:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: spiritd1

As I see it women are superior as a woman can have many orgasms in a row and men can have one and then they have to rest before they can cum again. I ask you who is superior?


LOL While funny, this has nothing to do with my post. I don't believe either sex is superior in any way, shape and/or form.   While I've never had sex, I know I "reload" quickly. : /




LadyPact -> RE: Feminism and the Strap-on (philosophical) (9/11/2008 12:08:56 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: spiritd1

As I see it women are superior as a woman can have many orgasms in a row and men can have one and then they have to rest before they can cum again. I ask you who is superior?

If I may.

Women are not superior.  Individuals are superior.




Untouched1282 -> RE: Feminism and the Strap-on (philosophical) (9/11/2008 12:12:13 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: spiritd1

As I see it women are superior as a woman can have many orgasms in a row and men can have one and then they have to rest before they can cum again. I ask you who is superior?

If I may.

Women are not superior.  Individuals are superior.



[handshake]




malloves69 -> RE: Feminism and the Strap-on (philosophical) (9/11/2008 1:11:43 AM)

women are superior i think [:)] they have the power of the pussy and with her saying no that cock isnt going anywhere without her consent [:)]plus we all were given birth too by a woman ..guys just donate the sperm and women take that from men and turn it into life which is pretty precious [:)]mal




MmeGigs -> RE: Feminism and the Strap-on (philosophical) (9/11/2008 4:40:10 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Untouched1282
I don't see the penis as a special gift -- and I don't think that's what you think I meant, either. 


Actually, that is what I thought you meant.  It seemed to me that you were saying this pretty clearly.  It seemed that way to other people, too, apparently. 

quote:


The way you phrased it as a "Special gift" makes seem as if I feel Dominants are better than subs,


Do all dominants have penises?

quote:


I'm done posting for awhile haha Every time I post generic questions I end up getting attacked. haha 


People are going to read and respond to what you've actually written, not to what you meant to write.  If you find that people are frequently misunderstanding you, the problem is likely on your end.




thetammyjo -> RE: Feminism and the Strap-on (philosophical) (9/11/2008 9:27:07 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: chamberqueen

thetammyjo, also for double penetration by a single person


Excellent.

And you could use a strapon as a plain dildo as well for solo play or you could use it by hand and not technically strap it on at all.




LadyPact -> RE: Feminism and the Strap-on (philosophical) (9/11/2008 9:28:37 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: malloves69

women are superior i think [:)] they have the power of the pussy and with her saying no that cock isnt going anywhere without her consent [:)]plus we all were given birth too by a woman ..guys just donate the sperm and women take that from men and turn it into life which is pretty precious [:)]mal

Hey mal, I'm proud of you.  I wanted to tell you that first.

Unfortunately, I can't agree with this reasoning.  Yes, everyone was given birth to by a woman, but what about women who can't give birth?  Also, I don't see gender as any difference about whether or not that person will be penetrated.  It works the same way if a male says no as well.

My apologies to those who do believe in supremacy.  I just don't happen to be one of them.




rick19 -> RE: Feminism and the Strap-on (philosophical) (9/11/2008 9:30:27 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: spiritd1

As I see it women are superior as a woman can have many orgasms in a row and men can have one and then they have to rest before they can cum again. I ask you who is superior?


There are plenty of women who cannot have orgasms, so whats your point?




thetammyjo -> RE: Feminism and the Strap-on (philosophical) (9/11/2008 9:30:48 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Untouched1282

I'm done posting for awhile haha Every time I post generic questions I end up getting attacked. haha 


Maybe post when you haven't been drinking? You might make stronger arguments.




rick19 -> RE: Feminism and the Strap-on (philosophical) (9/11/2008 9:41:37 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Untouched1282

I'm done posting for awhile haha Every time I post generic questions I end up getting attacked. haha 


Hey dude, if it makes you feel any better, I made a pretty innocent thread in "polls & random stupidity" and I got trashed like you wouldn't believe. You'd think from judging from some of the responses I got, I was telling people to go fuck themselves or something. Although I bet the responses would be different if I was a forum regular with 8800 posts instead of 88. Gotta love the Internet.




MISTRESSKUMA -> RE: Feminism and the Strap-on (philosophical) (9/11/2008 12:55:31 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Untouched1282

"having a penis affords a man natural superiority, at least in the bedroom, over females.
 


Really huh? You mean the thing you piss out of makes you superior? What about dicks that don't work. Are those men superior who can't last more than 3 seconds? Or how about men whose dicks don't get hard enough to fuck? Or how about men with very small dicks say 3 inches? How can these men possibly be superior in the bedroom?


quote:

ORIGINAL: Untouched1282
I've had wine

Cop out




malloves69 -> RE: Feminism and the Strap-on (philosophical) (9/11/2008 1:08:16 PM)

thank you for being proud of me Ms Lady [:)] i will gladly bendover for my mistress anytime she wants to use her strapon or her fist or both on me [:)] like i have a choice would be her words too [:)] strapon play is awesome indeed [:)] boy have anyone seen or used that mr ed strapon /horse cock on anyone yet ? 20 in long and thick ...wonder what that feels like to be allin [:)] some great strapon videos on yuvutu.com [:)] and for that matter women fisting guys anally too [:)] ok before i sound repitative ..love strapon play [:)][:)] my mistress looks awesome wearing hers [:)] mal




ElanSubdued -> RE: Feminism and the Strap-on (philosophical) (9/11/2008 2:57:52 PM)

Untouched1282,

Precursor:  it's nice to see a pervy OP that is (despite self-confessed motivation from the "spirits") sincere, thick, long, juicy, and well thought out. :-)

With the precursor out of the way, I'll address your post in a line-by-line fashion... just 'cause that's my mood.

quote:

I guess I’m having a difficult time wrapping my mind around the use of the strap-on and the socio-philosophical derivatives of its use.


Socio what?  Derivatives?  Right away, let's simplify this equation by factoring out psychological and mathematical implications.  You're talking about strap-ons, but really this same advice applies to those born with cocks too.  It goes like this.  Bodies have various "holes" that are fun to stick things into.  Truly, you'll have to trust me on this one.  Some people use cocks to fill these holes.  Some people use strap-ons to fill these holes.  And indeed, there are other "hole filling" tools so some people use these as well.  That's about all there is to it.  You can leave out feminism, gender, dominance, submission, and even BDSM.  Round holes endear and invite those possessing round pegs (regardless of whether the pegs are biological or synthetic).  Actually, it works the other way around too.  Those possessing round pegs often go looking for round holes to put them in.

quote:

I guess the majority of my issues/questions derive from the fact that the strap-on (dildo) is a literal replacement for the penis, or something "granted" specifically to men.


A strap-on is *not* a replacement for a penis.  It is a tool used to fill round holes - nothing more and nothing less.  Should penetrator and penetratee get off on the "round hole invites round peg" equation, presto, fireworks shall ensue.

quote:

With this being the case, how does a feminist view the role of the strap-on?


A strap-on is a sex toy.  A cock is a cock.  Honestly, I don't think either has anything to do with feminism.

Side note to ShaktiSama:  wanna' back me up here? :-)

quote:

In one hand, the strap-on is a tool for dominance; it suggests the superiority of a woman, her ability to control a sub, his/her sexual pleasure, by dominating them sexually in their most vulnerable areas. This seems to assert that the only difference between a male and a female is the penis.  Such thinking seems to be pro-feminist in nature. It suggests that the person-made, synthetic phallus is able to undermine the primary natural inequity between males and females.  The strap-on becomes the Great (or at least pinky-sized) Equalizer.  This type of thinking coexists with many feminists who view male and female as being inherently equal.


See my note from above:  a strap-on is a sex toy, an object.  It has nothing to do with dominance.  If a Domme chooses to enjoy herself by using a sex toy on her partner, the toy doesn't imbue her dominance, she does.  As for superiority of women... bah.  Women are people, just as are men.  Some "people" are superior, in certain respects, to others, but I don't think this has anything to do with gender (unless you're dealing with metrics like physical strength, and even then there are quite a few surprising gender juxtapositions).  More and more, as the world evolves and our attitudes evolve along with it, humankind demonstrates that there are no natural inequities between men and women.  Thus, possessing a cock seems like a rather moot feature.  True enough, cocks distinguish one model of human from another, but they don't intrinsically make a model better or worse.

quote:

On the other hand, however, the use of a strap-on could inadvertently validate the natural dominance of males over females.  Fair or unfair, having a penis affords a man natural superiority, at least in the bedroom, over females.  In using the dildo, the woman/Domme, is attempting to become/act more like a male.  In effect, these "act"ions suggest, intentionally or not, a continual longing by certain females to become male-like.  This line of thinking, at least to me, would undermine any possibility for a “true” Female supremacy and/or actual FemDom.  (This doesn't even take into account the physical side of strap-on sex, and the oft-one-sided dispersal of pleasure).


Heh. :-)  Well, I've already expressed my view on female superiority (read:  debunked it as myth) so that addresses this aspect of your thoughts.  I don't believe that having a penis (real or synthetic) affords the owner superiority in the bedroom.  Likewise, I don't believe that a woman who chooses to use a strap-on is necessarily doing so because she wants to become more male-like.  Were I a Domme, I'd probably describe the phenomena thusly:  "round holes of those I'm attracted to attract my attention... it's fun to fuck the people I love".  Now there are a myriad reasons why people fuck one another.  I'm not going to pretend that the simplistic motivation I've given here is the only one.  Likewise, there are usually many simultaneous factors that contribute to why one person fucks another and I don't think Dommes are exempted in this regard.  Just to throw out a few things that might motivate a Domme to use a strap-on:  feelings of closeness, objectification play, humiliation play, gender bending, imprinting on her charge, it feels good, marking her charge.  Some or none of these may come into play.  Each woman, in my experience, is unique in her motivations and preferences.

quote:

I'm not trying to get into the cultural IDs of man and woman or socially-created gender norms/roles, or anything along those lines.  I'm just curious.


Actually, whether intended or not, I think you did base your thinking on socially-created gender norms and roles.  Still, I'm glad you posted.  It's nice to read and reply to something that makes me think as opposed to the one-line, wank fodder threads that trolls frequently post (ex:  "how do you take your sub with a strap-on").

So, to sum this all up, people fuck for many reasons.  While it's true that some Dommes may use strap-ons as a statement about gender roles, I think it's impossible to make any generalization about why someone chooses to wear a strap-on and/or to penetrate their partner.  The only generalization I'm willing to make in regard to Dommes is that most do what they do because they want to.

Elan.




ElanSubdued -> RE: Feminism and the Strap-on (philosophical) (9/11/2008 3:01:10 PM)

LadyPact,

quote:

Women are not superior.  Individuals are superior.


Agreed.

Elan.




Untouched1282 -> RE: Feminism and the Strap-on (philosophical) (9/11/2008 4:15:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MISTRESSKUMA


quote:

ORIGINAL: Untouched1282

"having a penis affords a man natural superiority, at least in the bedroom, over females.
 


Really huh? You mean the thing you piss out of makes you superior? What about dicks that don't work. Are those men superior who can't last more than 3 seconds? Or how about men whose dicks don't get hard enough to fuck? Or how about men with very small dicks say 3 inches? How can these men possibly be superior in the bedroom?


quote:

ORIGINAL: Untouched1282
I've had wine

Cop out


What I meant is that, men are forced to take the perceived dominant sexual position because of their anatomical nature. That's all.




Untouched1282 -> RE: Feminism and the Strap-on (philosophical) (9/11/2008 4:23:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ElanSubdued

Elan.



I was not saying that the strap-on is an INTENTIONAL replacement for a penis (except in the cases where certain women walk around all day with one strapped on). I was attempting to articulate that the penis, a man's natural tool for penetrating another person, forces him to take a natural dominant position when it comes to sex. In adding a strapon, which is usually crafted to resemble a penis (with the extra dingle danglies, too), many of which even squirt a fluid that looks like seaman, the female is taking a role that a man has been forced to adopt naturally. That's all I was attempting to say.




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