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RE: Palins book banning - 9/11/2008 4:38:30 PM

subrob1967

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressNew

quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressNew

Hee hee hee. Whenever republicans try to defend the indefensible, either by trying to confuse the issue or by claiming that liberals do it too, you know they have no real defense. And how could they? What Palin did is indefensible.

And when people keep trying to defend the indefensible just because Palin has a little (r) next to her name, it makes me question the validity of all their arguments, not just this one. If they are just carrying water for Palin/McCain now, how do I know they aren't doing it every time?

What exactly did she do? Please provide specifics and proof.

Good illustration of what I was just saying, Thad!

In other words..."I can't, therefore I'll settle for this strawman argument".

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RE: Palins book banning - 9/11/2008 4:56:41 PM

JohnSteed1967

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Why am I not suprised this litte sow would try to ban books!

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RE: Palins book banning - 9/11/2008 6:13:03 PM

kittinSol

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She's not that little. Under that skirt, I discerned a pair of serious thunderthighs

. And don't even talk about her biceps: I heard they're huge.

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RE: Palins book banning - 9/11/2008 8:15:27 PM

TheHeretic

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bipolarber

I'm trying to be more accurate in my reporting.

          Sorry that didn't work out so well for you, Bipo, but in that spirit, you do raise a really valid sort of issue here.   I've posted elsewhere recently that being pro-choice has never given me a moment of pause when voting for a Republican. Matters of censorship and our God given Right to freedom of expression have. I place my faith in a system that has been working since the sedition act of the first Adams administration, and vote according to conscience. As far as I'm concerned though, the whole point of the Second Amendment is to guarantee the First.

        The Democrats have made it pretty easy for me to vote on the same side as those who want Harry Potter banned. They don't give nearly as much a rat's ass as I once believed they did. From Al Gore with his hearings on rock lyrics, to the embrace of PC that places sensitivity above liberty, it is obvious that lots of things are more important to them, than the one I place very near to the top.

          Would Sarah Palin try to ban books if she had that sort of unlimited power given to her? I dunno. Maybe. Are we in any way talking about giving her unlimited power? I don't imagine my feelings on this are much different than when a gun-owning Democrat shakes his head at the crap a candidate spews about gun control, and then votes for him anyway. It ain't gonna happen.



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RE: Palins book banning - 9/12/2008 6:48:01 AM

bipolarber

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So, some of you are saying that, in order to accuse Palin of wanting to ban books, we have to know which books she was targeting?

So, if I'm pulled over for speeding, the cop can't charge me, unless he knows what kind of tires I have on my car?

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RE: Palins book banning - 9/12/2008 10:49:04 AM

celticlord2112

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quote:

So, some of you are saying that, in order to accuse Palin of wanting to ban books, we have to know which books she was targeting?

That should be intuitively obvious.

Unless you are prepared to argue that Governor Palin wanted the library shut down entirely, the charge "she wanted to ban books" necessarily implies there were specific books (or types of books) that she wished to ban. If the charge has merit and substance, those making the charge should be able to articulate with specificity what books or types of books Governor Palin allegedly wanted to ban.

Saying that Governor Palin wanted to ban books without any clarifying detail renders the charge airy, insubstantial, seemingly malicious, and thus utterly devoid of anything resembling credibility.

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RE: Palins book banning - 9/12/2008 11:07:56 AM

philosophy

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FR

.....as far as i can tell the following is not being currently disputed. Mrs Palin went into the library in question and asked how to go about banning books, with the apparent agenda of finding out if it were possible and how it might be done. As far as i know no list of books to be banned actually exists or was given by Mrs Palin. The librarian basically refused to coperate with the request. Once Mrs Palin became mayor, she fired the librarian but a public outcry persuaded her to reinstate the librarian.

Now, my questions are; what possible good reason did Mrs Palin have for wanting to know how to ban any book in the first place? Why fire the librarian subsequently, and having done that, why cave into public opinion if the reason for sacking her was legitimate in the first place?

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RE: Palins book banning - 9/12/2008 11:20:17 AM

Thadius

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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

FR

.....as far as i can tell the following is not being currently disputed. Mrs Palin went into the library in question and asked how to go about banning books, with the apparent agenda of finding out if it were possible and how it might be done. As far as i know no list of books to be banned actually exists or was given by Mrs Palin. The librarian basically refused to coperate with the request. Once Mrs Palin became mayor, she fired the librarian but a public outcry persuaded her to reinstate the librarian.

Now, my questions are; what possible good reason did Mrs Palin have for wanting to know how to ban any book in the first place? Why fire the librarian subsequently, and having done that, why cave into public opinion if the reason for sacking her was legitimate in the first place?

To answer your first question, the town library was in the process of changing its "challenge policy" to be more similar to that of neighboring communities, therefore asking what the process for challengin a book or books would be relevant to the job and to policy decisions at the time in question.

Your second question is much easier to answer. All department heads were asked for letters of resignation during the same week, the librarian refused to submit one, she changed her mind later the next week and submitted the asked for letter, which was then accepted. She was hired back on a day later, and served in the position for another 3 years.

Folks have made mountains out of molehills. This is as clearly as I can describe what happened, even the Frontiersman, a newpaper that was unfriendly to the then Mayor, explained it in this way when the story originally broke in 1996.

Hope that helps.

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RE: Palins book banning - 9/12/2008 11:47:26 AM

philosophy

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...thanks for the answer. Still have a question or two though, hope you don't mind....

quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

To answer your first question, the town library was in the process of changing its "challenge policy" to be more similar to that of neighboring communities, therefore asking what the process for challengin a book or books would be relevant to the job and to policy decisions at the time in question.

......this was before Mrs Palin was mayor? So what was her job that she needed to research this issue?

quote:

Your second question is much easier to answer. All department heads were asked for letters of resignation during the same week, the librarian refused to submit one, she changed her mind later the next week and submitted the asked for letter, which was then accepted. She was hired back on a day later, and served in the position for another 3 years.

.....maybe i'm missing a US cultural thing, but why ask for the resignations at all?

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RE: Palins book banning - 9/12/2008 11:54:08 AM

Thadius

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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

...thanks for the answer. Still have a question or two though, hope you don't mind....

quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

To answer your first question, the town library was in the process of changing its "challenge policy" to be more similar to that of neighboring communities, therefore asking what the process for challengin a book or books would be relevant to the job and to policy decisions at the time in question.

......this was before Mrs Palin was mayor? So what was her job that she needed to research this issue?

quote:

Your second question is much easier to answer. All department heads were asked for letters of resignation during the same week, the librarian refused to submit one, she changed her mind later the next week and submitted the asked for letter, which was then accepted. She was hired back on a day later, and served in the position for another 3 years.

.....maybe i'm missing a US cultural thing, but why ask for the resignations at all?

The change over process was begun prior to her becoming mayor, the questions asked of the librarian were from what I gather on 2 or 3 seperate occasions, once prior to becoming mayor and once during a meeting of department heads, there has been a suggestion that there was another talk but it only comes from what I call the "email with all of the other rumors".

It is a cultural thing, by asking for the resignations you find out alot about loyalty and who is going to give you problems (ie protest requests for such in the future, if it becomes available), it also allows for the administrator to accept resignations from those they wish to replace without the "blemish" of the person involved being fired.

It really is just that simple.

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RE: Palins book banning - 9/12/2008 1:31:57 PM

slaveluci

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

Morning luci,

I would assume that there is some sort of "book challenge policy" at the libraries or in the municipalities that you work in? If that policy was being restructured, would it be fair to get an understanding of what the feelings and positions of the librarians were on censorship and procedures to be followed by said librarians if somebody wanted a book banned?

Looking for an inside answer,
Thadius

Afternoon Thadius,
Sorry it took so long to respond but I haven't had any time before now. As to your question, yes there is a very clearly deliniated "book challenge policy." When any patron has a complaint and they feel strongly enough to want a book removed from our system's shelves, there is a form they are given to complete. It is given to our administration and a committee made up of various individuals within our system meets. They each are to read the book cover to cover after having been given a copy of the patron's complaint. The patron must spell out exactly what they find objectionable and where it is found within the book (page #). They are also asked to specify what action they are requesting the library system to take. The committee then meets and discusses whether or not they found the part(s) objectionable as well and whether it should be pulled from the shelves.

I've never been on such a committee yet but have talked to co-workers who have. Our system honestly doesn't get many formal challenges. Lots of people may complain verbally about something they found objectionable but when it comes to wanting to formally have it withdrawn or censored, not many wish to go that far, thankfully.

On a side note, when I was a library director in a rural county in WV, it was extremely rare for anyone to complain about a book's contents. I found much more openmindedness among those rural patrons than is seen in major cities. I would read in Library Journal of patrons in LA, NY, Chicago, etc. wanting books banned and I'd smile at how "backward" that thinking was compared to my little WV community. Who'da thunk it?

As far as your question about the policy being restructured, the librarians and staff as well as the community would hopefully all have a say in said policy revisions. In the system I'm employed by now, public sentiment is very much taken into consideration.........luci

< Message edited by slaveluci -- 9/12/2008 1:34:21 PM >

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RE: Palins book banning - 9/12/2008 1:41:05 PM

Thadius

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luci,

Thanks for getting back to me. I thought that is a norm around most organized library systems. So would it be fair of an incoming mayor to ask questions about the library department head's position on it, seeing as there was an effort taking place that was changing the "book challenge" procedures?

Thadius

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RE: Palins book banning - 9/12/2008 5:59:24 PM

slaveluci

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I would say that would not only be "fair" but going the extra mile to make sure the library director's stance was clarified and understood. Any efforts to change the existing policies should most definitely include the input of the director...........luci

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RE: Palins book banning - 9/12/2008 6:14:51 PM

NumberSix

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bipolarber

So, some of you are saying that, in order to accuse Palin of wanting to ban books, we have to know which books she was targeting?

So, if I'm pulled over for speeding, the cop can't charge me, unless he knows what kind of tires I have on my car?

LOL, tickets 101, it don't matter, you are guilty regardless of tires, it is the law, get your fucking speedometer fixed.

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RE: Palins book banning - 9/12/2008 6:26:35 PM

NumberSix

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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

So, some of you are saying that, in order to accuse Palin of wanting to ban books, we have to know which books she was targeting?

That should be intuitively obvious.

Unless you are prepared to argue that Governor Palin wanted the library shut down entirely, the charge "she wanted to ban books" necessarily implies there were specific books (or types of books) that she wished to ban. If the charge has merit and substance, those making the charge should be able to articulate with specificity what books or types of books Governor Palin allegedly wanted to ban.

Saying that Governor Palin wanted to ban books without any clarifying detail renders the charge airy, insubstantial, seemingly malicious, and thus utterly devoid of anything resembling credibility.

OK, lets try this once more for the know nothings.
No such thing is true, there are certain truths we hold to be 'self evident' (it is in the constitution, which I recognize is a pain in the ass to all you bullshitters) but nevertheless, what this country is founded on as law of the land)

An accusation has been made in an adversarial situation, and it is without foundantion until proven true by trial (if someone has been harmed).

Unfortunately, that also works the other side, Obama is pristine, regardless of your badmouthing, Rush Limbaugh cites.

Everyone must vote their conscience. And if your conscience is that Iraq (instead of saudia arabia blew down them towers) then at some point, our will wins out or not. So, you can tell me what a great guy the traitor McCain is (he confessessed to shit which is not within his perview as a ltcol, in contravention to the UCMJ) or Obama the organizer or some other shit any of you throw up, but none of this is sane or conservatism.

lol.

now we have to have law, after all this time? where the fuck were you people 6 years ago?

Ron

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RE: Palins book banning - 9/12/2008 7:50:12 PM

corysub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

Let me go check the calendar...yes the year is 2008, not 1908.

Do people still ban library books?
Were the book pornographic?

According to the ABC interview with Charlie Gibson, one of the books "banned" was Harry Potter, which wasn't written at the time of the supposed banning.
Another internet hoax picked up by the loony lib media and spread as truth.

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RE: Palins book banning - 9/12/2008 9:37:40 PM

Owner59

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So the fact that she asked about it, on three separated occasions (that we know of),.....means nothing?

The question is then,...why?

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RE: Palins book banning - 9/13/2008 12:05:04 AM

SilverWulf

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

So the fact that she asked about it, on three separated occasions (that we know of),.....means nothing?

The question is then,...why?

To determine the correct guidelines for revamping the process for people to complain and request a book be removed from the system, as was explained earlier in the thread.

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RE: Palins book banning - 9/13/2008 5:26:32 AM

meatcleaver

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverWulf

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

So the fact that she asked about it, on three separated occasions (that we know of),.....means nothing?

The question is then,...why?

To determine the correct guidelines for revamping the process for people to complain and request a book be removed from the system, as was explained earlier in the thread.

_______________

Carter and Clinton were Governors, and Obama certainly isn't Jesus

Surely the very fact a politician that supposedly believes in democracy is asking about the procedure to ban books should set alarm bells off for anyone who believes in free speach. Banning is not the same as keeping inappropriate books out of children's hands.

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RE: Palins book banning - 9/13/2008 8:34:32 AM

Sanity

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Every public library in America 'bans books', meatcleaver.

Not every library in the United States carries every book ever published, and so some 'purchasing guidelines' have to be worked out. Also, since the general public pays for the books and helps support the libraries through taxes, the general public gets a say in which books cannot be purchased.

In other words, there is no scandal here.

Just so you know.

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver
Surely the very fact a politician that supposedly believes in democracy is asking about the procedure to ban books should set alarm bells off for anyone who believes in free speach. Banning is not the same as keeping inappropriate books out of children's hands.

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