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Palin and the Bush Doctrine - 9/12/2008 5:36:29 AM   
rulemylife


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I know there is already a thread discussing her interview but I wanted to get specific reaction to Governor Palin seeming not to understand what the Bush Doctrine entails. 


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080912/ap_on_el_pr/palin_interview
In the interview Thursday, Palin:
_Appeared unsure of the Bush doctrine — essentially that the United States must help spread democracy to stop terrorism and that the nation will act pre-emptively to stop potential foes.
Asked whether she agreed with that, Palin said: "In what respect, Charlie?" Gibson pressed her for an interpretation of it. She said: "His world view." That prompted Gibson to say "no, the Bush doctrine, enunciated September 2002, before the Iraq war" and describe it to her.
"I believe that what President Bush has attempted to do is rid this world of Islamic extremism, terrorists who are hell bent on destroying our nation," Palin said, though added "there have been mistakes made."




< Message edited by rulemylife -- 9/12/2008 5:37:44 AM >
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RE: Palin and the Bush Doctrine - 9/12/2008 6:00:49 AM   
kittinSol


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According to the Republican Damage Control Envoy, Bay Buchanan, few people in the country ever heard about the 'Bush doctrine', anyway so this justifies Gov. Palin's ignorance, because she's an average American above all else. Apparently, it's a point in her favour that she's hardly ever traveled abroad and that she's quasi clueless when it comes to foreign policy, becomes it makes her closer to the American public (talk about elevating ignorance as a virtue - it's terrifying rhetoric, but I disgress).

Palin's never heard of 'preemption', but it's okay, because she's going after the 'Muslim extremists' no matter what. Oh, and Georgia did nothing to provoke Russia, so Russia's bad, and Palin would go to war with Russia in two seconds flat if Georgia should join NATO and got picked on again by the evil Russian bully. Diplomacy? Economic sanctions? Apparently she's never heard of them. Buchanan also reminded CNN's viewers that hardly anybody in America even knew what NATO was, so this made Palin an amazing national defence specialist.

Since the Republican spokeswoman had no shame in gushing over Palin's performance and waxed lyrical about how strongly she came across, I have no qualms in saying that Palin's winking at her interviewer to try and emphasise her point came across as inappropriate, provincial and unbelievably vulgar . She sounded like a not very bright but forceful first year college student.

I'm looking forward to seeing the rest of the interview: I wonder how much of it will be edited out, or if it will it be released in its entirety?

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RE: Palin and the Bush Doctrine - 9/12/2008 6:04:20 AM   
housesub4you


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

She sounded like a not very bright but forceful first year college student.



That is what I was thinking when I saw the interview

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RE: Palin and the Bush Doctrine - 9/12/2008 6:05:38 AM   
kittinSol


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And that's after two weeks of intense grooming by her party's advisers. Can you imagine how much more empty she would have sounded without that crash course in bullshitting?

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RE: Palin and the Bush Doctrine - 9/12/2008 6:11:37 AM   
corysub


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OP Quote
"I know there is already a thread discussing her interview but I wanted to get specific reaction to Governor Palin seeming not to understand what the Bush Doctrine entails. "

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Gosh... and Barack did not know the Jerimiah Wright doctrine afte 20 years of listening!
I'm more interested in the future, in the "McCain doctrine" and how he intends to lead our country as President...

I wonder if Barack will be asked some of the same questions.  He can't make time for Town Meetings to share his views with the country but he can make the Letterman Show and Saturday Night Live this weekend.  He truly is in "showbusiness" instead of "our business"...

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RE: Palin and the Bush Doctrine - 9/12/2008 6:17:04 AM   
kittinSol


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Don't be so fast in bringing up Obama, we're still on the first page of a thread about Palin's revealing interview :-).

You think it's irrelevant for a potential president like Palin (after all, it's looking more and more like she is running) to talk about her world views and her knowledge of current affairs?

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RE: Palin and the Bush Doctrine - 9/12/2008 6:32:08 AM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: corysub

OP Quote
"I know there is already a thread discussing her interview but I wanted to get specific reaction to Governor Palin seeming not to understand what the Bush Doctrine entails. "

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Gosh... and Barack did not know the Jerimiah Wright doctrine afte 20 years of listening!
I'm more interested in the future, in the "McCain doctrine" and how he intends to lead our country as President...

I wonder if Barack will be asked some of the same questions.  He can't make time for Town Meetings to share his views with the country but he can make the Letterman Show and Saturday Night Live this weekend.  He truly is in "showbusiness" instead of "our business"...



Well, you're bringing up something entirely unrelated.

The Bush Doctrine was a major, historic shift in U.S. foreign policy that is going to affect subsequent administrations for years to come.

How McCain leads this country, if he is elected, is going to be affected greatly by Bush's precedent-setting policies.

Not to mention the fact that it was the policy rationale for invading Iraq, which is very much still in our future. 

< Message edited by rulemylife -- 9/12/2008 6:36:09 AM >

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RE: Palin and the Bush Doctrine - 9/12/2008 6:39:23 AM   
corysub


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I apologize to the OP for not addressing the specifics of the thread.

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RE: Palin and the Bush Doctrine - 9/12/2008 6:39:40 AM   
bipolarber


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Well, you have to give Palin some wiggle room on this one.... the Bush Doctrine has changed repeatedly over the years. First he was more in line with Reagan, then after 9-11, he changed to a "You're either with us, or with the turrurists!" stance... and now, in his second term and with the US's overseas credibility shot to hell, he's adopting more of a traditional foreign policy again.
So really, the interviewer was holding up a set, and saying "Pick a card, any card."  ...except they are all jokers in the deck.

But yeah. She came off badly.

You're surprised?

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RE: Palin and the Bush Doctrine - 9/12/2008 6:48:20 AM   
Archer


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OK to reverse some of the spin, the question was not asked the way it was described above.

Palin was asked about the Bush Doctrine she saw it as exactly what it was an attempt to tie McCain Palin to the Bush Doctrine.
Figureing out how to navigate through such a snare set by a reporter is not easy. She did what they teach you to do, when you need time to collect and think ask for clarification of the question.

So the question from a political standpoint is tell us what change you will represent in relation to the Bush Doctrine.
Clarified after she asked for clarification to include: Pre emptive action, spread of democracy by force, and the policy that if you are harboring or materially suppoting terrorists you are going to be treated as an enemy.

Had Palin not touched on each and every one of the points then it's a gotcha moment.




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RE: Palin and the Bush Doctrine - 9/12/2008 6:50:04 AM   
bipolarber


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Yup. She's being forced to be "nuanced" and that's going to undercut her image with the republican base...

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RE: Palin and the Bush Doctrine - 9/12/2008 6:50:59 AM   
kittinSol


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Archer, I thought she was talking rubbish, but I guess an interview like that will only crystallise people's opinion even more. It's hardly surprising that this should happen.

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RE: Palin and the Bush Doctrine - 9/12/2008 7:11:44 AM   
cloudboy


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I'm sure she'll get the talking points straight. Then maybe they'll let her out of the box.

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RE: Palin and the Bush Doctrine - 9/12/2008 7:17:38 AM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: corysub

I apologize to the OP for not addressing the specifics of the thread.


no problem

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RE: Palin and the Bush Doctrine - 9/12/2008 7:21:08 AM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

Then maybe they'll let her out of the box.


They're going to have to, but I wonder whether the magic show is going to go on much longer  .

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RE: Palin and the Bush Doctrine - 9/12/2008 7:32:19 AM   
cloudboy


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Obama knows how to weather a storm. Who know that the RNC would switch McCain's slogan from "experience" to "change?"

Change what? According to the speakers, "change a liberal WASH DC."

The only problem with that is that the conservatives have been in power.

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RE: Palin and the Bush Doctrine - 9/12/2008 7:52:00 AM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

OK to reverse some of the spin, the question was not asked the way it was described above.

Palin was asked about the Bush Doctrine she saw it as exactly what it was an attempt to tie McCain Palin to the Bush Doctrine.
Figureing out how to navigate through such a snare set by a reporter is not easy. She did what they teach you to do, when you need time to collect and think ask for clarification of the question.

So the question from a political standpoint is tell us what change you will represent in relation to the Bush Doctrine.
Clarified after she asked for clarification to include: Pre emptive action, spread of democracy by force, and the policy that if you are harboring or materially suppoting terrorists you are going to be treated as an enemy.

Had Palin not touched on each and every one of the points then it's a gotcha moment.






That was an AP summary of the interview.  I couldn't find anything that quoted the exact text of the interview any better at the time I posted.

But if you watched the interview, or even some of the clips on today's news, it seemed she was genuinely confused by the question.  The story above only gives her initial answer.  When pressed further, she still didn't seem to understand and Gibson then went on to explain to her what it was.

You could be right, she may have been trying to buy time, but I thought it was a pretty straightforward question, not designed to be a "gotcha" question. 

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RE: Palin and the Bush Doctrine - 9/12/2008 7:56:29 AM   
Archer


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My point is ask 100 people what the Bush Doctrine is and you'll get a range of answers that include many different things.
That is where I am assuming the confussion on her part came from Which definition of the Bush Doctrine are you asking me to respond to?

Was this part of the transcript or your editorial commentary.
"essentially that the United States must help spread democracy to stop terrorism and that the nation will act pre-emptively to stop potential foes."

That is your (or the writter's) definition of the Bush Doctrine, I included the doctrine aspect of including states that harbor terrorists as did others. still others would include or disinclude different aspects.

The point I'm making is that unless and until I or anyone else has specified what they believe the Bush Doctrin includes, to answer if you agree or not with it is silly. What am I specificly agreeing to in your mind. The two part doctrine you mentioned or the three part I mentioned? or a 4 or 5 part that the interviewer has set in their mind.


< Message edited by Archer -- 9/12/2008 8:01:37 AM >

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RE: Palin and the Bush Doctrine - 9/12/2008 8:02:09 AM   
Thadius


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife


That was an AP summary of the interview.  I couldn't find anything that quoted the exact text of the interview any better at the time I posted.

But if you watched the interview, or even some of the clips on today's news, it seemed she was genuinely confused by the question.  The story above only gives her initial answer.  When pressed further, she still didn't seem to understand and Gibson then went on to explain to her what it was.

You could be right, she may have been trying to buy time, but I thought it was a pretty straightforward question, not designed to be a "gotcha" question. 


You start this post out with a falsehood as you have already read and seen the other thread (as you have stated in your OP), which has a link directly to the interview and excerpts.

However, to clear the issue up let us look at what was asked and answered.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Vote2008/Story?id=5782924&page=4
quote:

GIBSON: We talk on the anniversary of 9/11. Why do you think those hijackers attacked? Why did they want to hurt us?
PALIN: You know, there is a very small percentage of Islamic believers who are extreme and they are violent and they do not believe in American ideals, and they attacked us and now we are at a point here seven years later, on the anniversary, in this post-9/11 world, where we're able to commit to never again. They see that the only option for them is to become a suicide bomber, to get caught up in this evil, in this terror. They need to be provided the hope that all Americans have instilled in us, because we're a democratic, we are a free, and we are a free-thinking society.
GIBSON: Do you agree with the Bush doctrine?
PALIN: In what respect, Charlie?
GIBSON: The Bush -- well, what do you -- what do you interpret it to be?
PALIN: His world view.
GIBSON: No, the Bush doctrine, enunciated September 2002, before the Iraq war.
PALIN: I believe that what President Bush has attempted to do is rid this world of Islamic extremism, terrorists who are hell bent on destroying our nation. There have been blunders along the way, though. There have been mistakes made. And with new leadership, and that's the beauty of American elections, of course, and democracy, is with new leadership comes opportunity to do things better.
GIBSON: The Bush doctrine, as I understand it, is that we have the right of anticipatory self-defense, that we have the right to a preemptive strike against any other country that we think is going to attack us. Do you agree with that?
PALIN: I agree that a president's job, when they swear in their oath to uphold our Constitution, their top priority is to defend the United States of America.
I know that John McCain will do that and I, as his vice president, families we are blessed with that vote of the American people and are elected to serve and are sworn in on January 20, that will be our top priority is to defend the American people.
GIBSON: Do we have a right to anticipatory self-defense? Do we have a right to make a preemptive strike again another country if we feel that country might strike us?
PALIN: Charlie, if there is legitimate and enough intelligence that tells us that a strike is imminent against American people, we have every right to defend our country. In fact, the president has the obligation, the duty to defend.
GIBSON: Do we have the right to be making cross-border attacks into Pakistan from Afghanistan, with or without the approval of the Pakistani government?
PALIN: Now, as for our right to invade, we're going to work with these countries, building new relationships, working with existing allies, but forging new, also, in order to, Charlie, get to a point in this world where war is not going to be a first option. In fact, war has got to be, a military strike, a last option.
GIBSON: But, Governor, I'm asking you: We have the right, in your mind, to go across the border with or without the approval of the Pakistani government.
PALIN: In order to stop Islamic extremists, those terrorists who would seek to destroy America and our allies, we must do whatever it takes and we must not blink, Charlie, in making those tough decisions of where we go and even who we target.
GIBSON: And let me finish with this. I got lost in a blizzard of words there. Is that a yes? That you think we have the right to go across the border with or without the approval of the Pakistani government, to go after terrorists who are in the Waziristan area?
PALIN: I believe that America has to exercise all options in order to stop the terrorists who are hell bent on destroying America and our allies. We have got to have all options out there on the table.


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RE: Palin and the Bush Doctrine - 9/12/2008 8:23:09 AM   
Archer


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In support of my contention that the Bush Doctrine is interpreted in different ways, in this case in July of 2007 Obama defines the Bush Doctrine, I submit the following:
In a conference call with reporters, Obama said Clinton would continue the "Bush doctrine" of only speaking to leaders of rogue nations if they first meet conditions laid out by the United States. He went on to suggest that being "trapped by a lot of received wisdom" led members of Congress -- including Clinton -- to authorize the war in Iraq. "The Bush administration's policy is to say that he will not talk with these countries unless they meet various preconditions -- that's their explicit policy,

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2007/07/obama-clinton-w.html

So according to Obama the Bush Doctrine is that we will only speak to the leaders of rouge nations if they meet specific conditions.





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