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RE: Lady Bosses - 11/30/2005 12:46:09 PM

BlkTallFullfig

Posts: 5585
Joined: 6/25/2004
Status: offline

quote:

Also, the desire to go to work for the benefit of someone else (ie: his Mistress) is not uncommon amongst submissves. Many men desire to be 'put to work' as such, knowing that every minute at work is to somehow better her life, and in return the subs, by virtue of being hers.

Add to that, money affords freedom, to have that financial freedom curtailed is a must for a great number of men seeking to submit.

Dear Jasmyn,
I agree with you, that submitting, working for her are wonderful ideals for a submissive to have, Lord knows I seek one with that mindframe...

I just thought "recipe for disaster" when I saw this particular quote in his post

quote:

to make me more productive in developing my business - and as her just reward help herself to what I have - make me work harder and then 'cuckold' me, spending my money while she dates another man.
I've not found this Woman, who can actually succeed in this. It should be simple, from a minimalist point of view, to ask for a list of things I plan to do (day, week, month, year) in the morning (5 minutes) then check progress later (20 min), and order prolongation of CB3000 or give permission for pleasure, and collect her check (at Her discretion) based on how much she has increased the earnings by making me work, by decreasing my grocery budget.

A little more elaborate - she gets a piece of equity, she blackmails to make me work harder, she makes me jealous of her lovers. She humiliates me. She hypnotizes and suggests

I understand that my thinking may be due to my lack of experience, and some cynicism for the protection of this soon-to-be-poor sub's well-being and future, but I think that if I have plenty of disposable income, and am having a great time playing with interesting men around the world, my attention will eventually shift away from my money making slave and we would both end up in financial ruins.. M

_____________________________

a.k.a. SexyBossyBBW
""Touching was, and still is, and will always be, the true revolution" Nikki Giovanni

(in reply to Jasmyn)

Post #: 21

RE: Lady Bosses or They Whip Horses, Don't They? - 11/30/2005 1:53:49 PM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: HersAllHers

As for micromanaging, was the sin to mention checking in to work daily? Or when I discuss timelines (day, week, month, year), I should leave off day and add decade?

The point - the question - is whether it can be fulfilling and successful for a Woman to use her domination in work, and how might this be done. NOT if it is NECESSARY and this is the ONLY way to get work done a la insinuationation de l'Akasha :

I don't recalling seeing anyone say that you sinned.

It very much read to me that you wanted a particular type of domination or topping that involved managing your motivation to work -- that has two problems (clearly or you'd have found multiple people to do this, yes?).

The first is the limitation of the control -- over work.

The second is that the way you wrote it read very much like having a job to get you to do your job. I have one of those all ready: its called being a wife.

My commments and suggestions were meant to get you to think about what you are looking for and how you might make a greater offer in return or to find a pro dom who could do that and have the skills to do it.

The more limited, the more narrow, and the more focused the kink or interest, the less numerous the potential market audience for your search. To increase your chances of finding such a relationship that will last longer than the past experience you made need to reflect on what you want and redefine it. Or, if financial slavery and being motivated in work is the truly important thing for you, then you will need to accept that the search will be hard and the relationships not as easy as you thought.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to HersAllHers)

Post #: 22

RE: Lady Bosses - 12/1/2005 12:39:43 AM

UtopianRanger

Posts: 3251
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jasmyn

Agree in principal Ranger, but lol I can see many a business coach or mentor choking on their morning coffee if they read that. Many a self employed person will seek out a business mentor/business coach to assist them in keeping focused on goals of success and productivity. Been self employed can be a lonely life, existing in a vaccum, having some one help you set and maintain goals isn't necessarily a sign one should throw in the towel.

Also, the desire to go to work for the benefit of someone else (ie: his Mistress) is not uncommon amongst submissves. Many men desire to be 'put to work' as such, knowing that every minute at work is to somehow better her life, and in return the subs, by virtue of being hers.

Add to that, money affords freedom, to have that financial freedom curtailed is a must for a great number of men seeking to submit.

Throw in humiliation, cuckolding, his dom's pleasure at his expense... its text book fem dom stuff.

In answer to his original question: yes a man can be made to be more productive at his work.

Semantics and the fact that I should have extended my post in order to clarify my point is the culprit here. I may have also given the inclination that I think one's partner/domme/girlfriend could not become a contributing factor in the success and/or increased productivity for that said business - Not so

Since the ripe age of twenty-four, not a single day has gone by where I haven't worked for myself. And throughout that time, every lady I've had the pleasure of having had a long term relationship with, has in some way contributed to my success. So behind every great business success story, yes, there's a hellva good chance that the partner {lady or man} played a significant role in the success.

In the context of running a business and realizing a profit, someone saying they need a domme{ Who probably knows nothing about that business} to come into the picture ''To make me more productive in developing my business '' implies that this person wasn't very productive in the first place. And if he wasn't very productive in the first place, I really don't see how a domme that ''makes him jealous of her lovers'' ''cuckholds him'' and ''humiliates him'' is going to make him more productive in his business. - In fact, if anything, he will probably become less productive and realize less or no profits.

So yes Jasmyn, I completely agree with you, that in the context of a coach/mentor, surely a dominant woman would figure in the success of their partner's business.

But in the context of the OP's proposal, I don't think there's a chance in hell he would become more productive. But then it's my bet that the OP also knows this to be true and his post is nothing more than a fantasy that he's created in his mind.

- The Ranger

_____________________________

"If you are going to win any battle, you have to do one thing. You have to make the mind run the body. Never let the body tell the mind what to do... the body is never tired if the mind is not tired."

-General George S. Patton

(in reply to Jasmyn)

Post #: 23

RE: Lady Bosses or They Whip Horses, Don't They? - 12/1/2005 5:00:05 AM

Jasmyn

Posts: 1234
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: New Zealand
Status: offline

ORIGINAL: GoddessDustyGold

Your own tag line says it all. I found myself today spending hours questioning that very thing ;) Then you added this: I'm not saying a boy should have to give up any hope of having his needs satisfied. That is not right. which is absolutely correct, and its not what I am saying with that quote either. Perhaps we're more on the same page than we think ;) but my quote does reflect something I fundamentally feel about the essence of power exchange, authority transfer. The prize really is in the surrender of one’s self to another and it is that that HersAllHers ultimately seeks.

quote:

“I've not found this Woman, who can actually succeed in this. It should be simple, from a minimalist point of view, to ask for a list of things I plan to do (day, week, month, year) in the morning (5 minutes) then check progress later (20 min), and order prolongation of CB3000 or give permission for pleasure, and collect her check (at Her discretion) based on how much she has increased the earnings by making me work, by decreasing my grocery budget.”

With the amount of detail the OP felt necessary, and the additional examples, I got the feeling that this boy might not ever be quite satisfied and the Domina might not ever be quite good enough. .<snip> Perhaps I read way too much into the whole thing.

Perhaps. Cause I kind of see all that as window dressing (for want of a better description).

quote:

I become concerned that this doesn't seem so difficult to Me, yet this boy has not been able to find anyone to satisfy this simple fetish. Especially when the financial rewards could be very nice. So I have to wonder how demanding things might become. Am I not doing it well enough? Am I not spending enough time? Is there a lack of understanding in how I am directing the situation but he needs yet more, and more, and more?

"Although women often register enthusiasm and confidence in doing this, it has never really worked. I don't really understand why."

Maybe here where he questions why it has never really worked is because no one’s ever truly dominated him… perhaps it’s the mention of money… perhaps it has drawn a number of women to him who don’t really have a clue… they are out there… he’s given them a script and wtf, blow me down … they follow it!… then suddenly, it gets to hard? Or difficult? Or no enjoyment for them (the dom)? No surprise there. If they are trying to follow a script… it will never work.

And the irony is he doesn’t want his script followed… he wants it thrown out and her to implement her own, preferably at his expense.

I see all his scenarios, or scripts as *ideas * and nothing else. A dom who takes him under her wing will see them for what they are. Perhaps other’s haven’t understood this.

This phenonmenon is not unsual in wiiwd... oh so I want to be a dom or I want to be a sub... a dom does this, a sub does this... you want to be dommed like this, you want to sub like this ... mmkay here you go... did that work for ya doll? Was it as good for you as it was for me? Then when someone actually gets called on their idea of submission or their idea of domination that doesn't reflect either because no ones actually doing either... they're told there is not such thing as one-wayism and they'll do what they want, it works for them... then wonder why it is they can't find the very thing the profess to be wanting. It's always *there* ... but often its a case of not seeing the wood for the trees.

See Mercnbeth's thread here, it's totally speaks volumes about what I'm on about.

ORIGINAL: BlkTallFullfig

Hey ya, thanks for the response…and all good queries re this particular type of kink.

Please note he did say… “from a minimalist point of view” …and went on to explain a possible daily scenario .. and then went on to give a “little more elaborate” speil, a snapshot if you like, of the ulimate desires behind what drives him to want to be submissive.

Then when he is busy, at work, working for her pleasure… he seeks to be cuckolded, humilated while she spends his hard earned $$’s on/and takes other lovers.

quote:

I think that if I have plenty of disposable income, and am having a great time playing with interesting men around the world, my attention will eventually shift away from my money making slave and we would both end up in financial ruins..

I can see where you are coming from here…that maybe, disrespect will creep in and this boy will come to be seen as a means to an end and little else, or something to that effect. Neither you or I can see into the future… so can’t say either way how this might play out…that’s going to depend on the relationship that gets built with the woman who doms him and her motives for doing so.

But it is not impossible a beautiful relationship can be built… that has all the elements of submission, surrender and enslavement.

One of the things I have found about men who seek cuckolding, spend my money, make me feel bad guys, generally with a fem supreme kick somewhere in the mix… they come to feel special, to feel indispensible to the Mistress, that no one but him can make her life this special, or worship or adore her like they can. All these men, these johns she uses for sex and dismisses are nothing to her… she still comes home to him..her cuck. He gets to share her life…

This is his holy grail…

ORIGINAL: UtopianRanger

quote:

And if he wasn't very productive in the first place, I really don't see how a domme that ''makes him jealous of her lovers'' ''cuckholds him'' and ''humiliates him'' is going to make him more productive in his business. - In fact, if anything, he will probably become less productive and realize less or no profits.

<snip>

I don't think there's a chance in hell he would become more productive. But then it's my bet that the OP also knows this to be true and his post is nothing more than a fantasy that he's created in his mind.

So since you raised it, let me address it.

How will he become more productive? It’s not rocket science… motivated to perform for his dominant. Why? Because in return for his obedience he gets everything he’s ever dreamed of having.

Do you think these men you speak of who have had partner’s standing beside them, supporting them in their endeavours, didn’t do it, strive to attain success, in some part for the people they love, adore and respect? For their wife, lover, family, children?

What does a sub want but to have love for his Mistress, respect and adoration for her as a person and how she enriches his life.

Thus, I’ll take your bet and raise you a hundred that this fantasy as you call it is as genuine as your own and remind you to not be so arrogant when replying to posts and threads by assuming someone who deviates from your kink norms is not kosha about their own.

_____________________________

quote:

"To learn the art of submission a slave must first give up the desires that drew him to submission in the first place." Mistress Jasmyn Jan 2005.

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(in reply to GoddessDustyGold)

Post #: 24

RE: Lady Bosses or They Whip Horses, Don't They? - 12/1/2005 6:01:29 AM

LadyAngelika

Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jasmyn
Thus, I’ll take your bet and raise you a hundred that this fantasy as you call it is as genuine as your own and remind you to not be so arrogant when replying to posts and threads by assuming someone who deviates from your kink norms is not kosha about their own.

Funny, I didn't see any arrogance in UtopianRanger's thread. I saw his opinion, which is a very strong one. But nothing more. He didn't insult your opinion; he considered yours and offered a rebuttal. That is what we do in a friendly debate. The fact that you insulted him shows us all that you are the one that has issues with other people's opinions.

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to Jasmyn)

Post #: 25

RE: Lady Bosses or They Whip Horses, Don't They? - 12/1/2005 6:16:31 AM

imtempting

Posts: 1280
Joined: 2/11/2005
Status: offline

I tend to agree with utopiian ranger

Jealousy leads to depression. Depression lead to loss of productivly.

If he cant run his own business at the moment then how will a mistress help?

One would think that the business is his Mistress at the moment. After all you need to love the business, respect the business, sacrifice your time to it. Do things when the business wants and needs you not the other way around.

How will adding someone that will make him not only do all that for the business but make him do all that for her help him?

It will make him tired, stressed, over-worked and resentful to her or the busines that he does not have enough time and in the end one or both will be gone....

< Message edited by imtempting -- 12/1/2005 6:21:19 AM >

(in reply to Jasmyn)

Post #: 26

RE: Lady Bosses or They Whip Horses, Don't They? - 12/1/2005 6:36:55 AM

Jasmyn

Posts: 1234
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: New Zealand
Status: offline

Show me the insult and I'll consider giving an apology... until then I stand by what I said in response to Ranger about his comments re the thread author's desire to be cuckolded.

_____________________________

quote:

"To learn the art of submission a slave must first give up the desires that drew him to submission in the first place." Mistress Jasmyn Jan 2005.

Visit My Website

(in reply to LadyAngelika)

Post #: 27

RE: Lady Bosses or They Whip Horses, Don't They? - 12/1/2005 6:51:34 AM

Jasmyn

Posts: 1234
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: New Zealand
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: imtempting

I tend to agree with utopiian ranger

Jealousy leads to depression. Depression lead to loss of productivly.

If he cant run his own business at the moment then how will a mistress help?

One would think that the business is his Mistress at the moment. After all you need to love the business, respect the business, sacrifice your time to it. Do things when the business wants and needs you not the other way around.

How will adding someone that will make him not only do all that for the business but make him do all that for her help him?

It will make him tired, stressed, over-worked and resentful to her or the busines that he does not have enough time and in the end one or both will be gone....

Could everyone please stop for a moment and consider not how you personally would act in response to these same dynamics being applied to you, and consider the very real possibility that the cuckold fantasy works because there is a motivation to sacrific of himself for his Mistress, and that to be jealous of her lovers, to be humiliated, to be pushed to perform and to work hard for her benefit are fundamental desires and needs required within the dynamic.

Ok scenario for you

I tell him if he had a penis that was actually worth getting out of his y-fronts he'd be in my bed, not wearing a pink dress and standing in the corner downstairs while I'm upstairs having sex with some random lover who, unlike him, *can* satisfy me... thus his penis and the fact he has one means nothing to me, infact it's so worthless I should consider cutting it off and feeding it to the cat... but I do need a bitch to be my bitch...so he should just run along and check those accounts because I have a hot date coming up Saturday night and he better have earned enough this week to afford me that new outfit I saw last week in World.

Add insult to injury, I'd probably have him play foot soldier to the boy in my bed and have him fetch drinks and what not, the man will drop some line, after seeing him in pink and a prissy little bonnet and tell me ''fark, no wonder you need a real man!" laugh at his own joke and not realise that the very comment will just about make the cuck cum in his own pants.

Jealousy is a fundamental facet of this fantasy/fetish.

_____________________________

quote:

"To learn the art of submission a slave must first give up the desires that drew him to submission in the first place." Mistress Jasmyn Jan 2005.

Visit My Website

(in reply to imtempting)

Post #: 28

RE: Lady Bosses or They Whip Horses, Don't They? - 12/1/2005 6:57:02 AM

HersAllHers

Posts: 8
Joined: 8/11/2005
Status: offline

I'm so glad to get some good insights now, after the initial onslaught of rotten eggs and tomatoes. This doesn't mean that recent comments are necessarily easy to hear.

Ranger, point is well taken. Always the choice between do it yourself and hire someone to do it. Usually a person outsources support services, like bookkeeping, computer programming, etc. There is a time honored principle of hiring management consultants (to read your wristwatch and tell you what time it is). And it is unusual, certainly, to outsource the CEO. In fact, I have been an oursourced CEO before, strictly vanilla; it is tricky, no question about it.

Jasmyn does put her finger also on the psychological needs I'm trying to satisfy at the same time as improve my business performance. The clamor of warning bells about mixing domestic and professional deafens.

Goddess Dusty, it is hard to make a determination (i.e. judge) based on what I've said, and I'd suggest that judging me is not the point. But if you want to shine the light on me, ok .... When I was married with a suppressed Domme, for 15 years, it really worked. And how. Recapturing that in some way is part of what this is about. You know this song very well too, right?

All the ... "partial successes", let's call them ... in recent history that I refer to were virtual. I believe the accurate and simple explanation is that all those who tried the role were not self-disciplined (hence not that good at exerting discipline outside themselves) and sank readily into the frame of mind "oh screw work .... today I'm going to stay home and eat chocolates". Please, we are not talking about 100s of people, screened and interviewed and rationally chosen. Maybe two.

One IRL relationship (post divorce) was working quite well concerning the management issues. Not micromanaging at all. It fell apart for different reasons.

On the flexible issue .. certainly we are talking about human relationships, not formulas or recipes. Personally the formulas and labels are extremely troubling to me. I think this is where the rotten tomato problem came from - I was sketching a day in the life but was perceived as setting rules, formulas, recipes. When I cook I don't refer to recipes or use a measuring cup.

quote:

With the amount of detail the OP felt necessary, and the additional examples, I got the feeling that this boy might not ever be quite satisfied and the Domina might not ever be quite good enough.

Yes, I will describe the Chinook salmon I served with lemon-soaked cucumber in great detail - does this mean that no fish is good enough for me, no recipe will ever satisfy me? Detail = rigidity? I was nailed to the cross of advocating micromanagement by being specific, and that potentially has some validity - I'm not sure whether to plead innocent or guilty on that one, and so continue to plan not to enter a plea.

But again and again and again, I don't seek an egocentric discussion and personal evaluation - rather please tell me what works? I might note that I was extremely encouraged initially, much influenced, and never forgot the wonderful writing of Lady Misato, http://www.geocities.com/ladymisato/ Real Women Don't Do Housework.

I'm grateful for all comments, btw, even thrice-thrown rotten tomatoes. Better to skim the script than to act out the movie.

(in reply to GoddessDustyGold)

Post #: 29

RE: Lady Bosses or They Whip Horses, Don't They? - 12/1/2005 6:57:03 AM

LadyAngelika

Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jasmyn

Show me the insult and I'll consider giving an apology... until then I stand by what I said in response to Ranger about his comments re the thread author's desire to be cuckolded.

Look at the passage from you that I quoted. You called him arrogant.

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to Jasmyn)

Post #: 30

RE: Lady Bosses or They Whip Horses, Don't They? - 12/1/2005 7:03:30 AM

LadyAngelika

Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline

quote:

Could everyone please stop for a moment and consider not how you personally would act in response to these same dynamics being applied to you

I actually did that in my very first post on this thread. I figure he might actually meet his match. I do find it unlikely thought but then again, I never thought I'd ever find everything I ever wanted in a man and I did so...

Do I personally think it's going to work out? Nope. But that doesn't mean that I can't wish him well in trying. I am a strong believer that just because it doesn't fit into my framework doesn't make anything null and void.

However, this man came on asking for opinions and that is what the crowd has given him. And he's lucky in that he got a variety of them.

From my own personal experience, I've dated a few men who were entrepreneurs, some more successful then others. The ones that were successful were self-motivated and didn't need my dominance to reach their goals. They did appreciate my support however. That is my opinion.

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to Jasmyn)

Post #: 31

RE: Lady Bosses or They Whip Horses, Don't They? - 12/1/2005 11:31:22 AM

HersAllHers

Posts: 8
Joined: 8/11/2005
Status: offline

What a fracas! Lines rather casually written in the original post are becoming scrutinized as if it were the Constitution!

I really respect Ranger's comments in general - and don't care a bit whether he's arrogant or not - but there is lots of remarkably slack reasoning (read NONSENSE) in the thread. I pick on Ranger because I think he can handle a friendly smack upside the head:

quote:

''To make me more productive in developing my business '' implies that this person wasn't very productive in the first place.

Oh man - so every CEO who tries to make his company more productive is admitting that his company isn't very productive in the first place? I hope your independent business since 24 isn't about building bridges, there, Ranger, or Air Traffic Controllers R Us.

Then IMtempting feeds on that one:

quote:

If he cant run his own business at the moment then how will a mistress help?

LOL!!

Business is good, folks. I feel like James Fulton next to the river before any of youse has seen my poor little Folly! For four years I've been living in this boat, and it floats. About 30% growth rate. Just want to kick it up a notch, make it more fun.

So much of what I've said is misunderstood, misconstrued, or used as the basis for questionable predictions (e.g., jealousy begets depression, though admittedly, depression is not good for productivity, we can all agree with that one.) Granted, nobody knows themselves perfectly, but I do know a few things about what drives me. Okay, they're a little twisted; I take it too far to think that my manager, for whom I have the hots, might sleep with another man. Is this a church? Fine, may I change my request to vanilla jealousy please? .. this is a well-established motivator, part of corporate culture. I just like it when jealousy wears heels and perfume.

It could be an unrealistic fantasy. Yes. And if the dream is indeed realized, one that is hard to wake up from. Might we all lighten up a little? Sheesh. Business is good, we're among friends, nobody's been murdered.

(in reply to LadyAngelika)

Post #: 32

RE: Lady Bosses or They Whip Horses, Don't They? - 12/1/2005 11:48:01 AM

AAkasha

Posts: 4429
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: HersAllHers

What a fracas! Lines rather casually written in the original post are becoming scrutinized as if it were the Constitution!

I really respect Ranger's comments in general - and don't care a bit whether he's arrogant or not - but there is lots of remarkably slack reasoning (read NONSENSE) in the thread. I pick on Ranger because I think he can handle a friendly smack upside the head:

quote:

''To make me more productive in developing my business '' implies that this person wasn't very productive in the first place.

Oh man - so every CEO who tries to make his company more productive is admitting that his company isn't very productive in the first place? I hope your independent business since 24 isn't about building bridges, there, Ranger, or Air Traffic Controllers R Us.

Then IMtempting feeds on that one:

quote:

If he cant run his own business at the moment then how will a mistress help?
LOL!!

Business is good, folks. I feel like James Fulton next to the river before any of youse has seen my poor little Folly! For four years I've been living in this boat, and it floats. About 30% growth rate. Just want to kick it up a notch, make it more fun.

So much of what I've said is misunderstood, misconstrued, or used as the basis for questionable predictions (e.g., jealousy begets depression, though admittedly, depression is not good for productivity, we can all agree with that one.) Granted, nobody knows themselves perfectly, but I do know a few things about what drives me. Okay, they're a little twisted; I take it too far to think that my manager, for whom I have the hots, might sleep with another man. Is this a church? Fine, may I change my request to vanilla jealousy please? .. this is a well-established motivator, part of corporate culture. I just like it when jealousy wears heels and perfume.

It could be an unrealistic fantasy. Yes. And if the dream is indeed realized, one that is hard to wake up from. Might we all lighten up a little? Sheesh. Business is good, we're among friends, nobody's been murdered.

The thing that has struck me all along about your concept is the common misunderstanding sub men have about how a femdom's energy works, how she gets motivated, how she expresses herself and how she uses her passion. I would argue that it would be easier for a *woman* (not a femdom) to play the role you outline than it would be for a full fledged, self aware femdom.

Sub men idealize femdoms as having an undercurrent, easily tappable, constantly available resource of dominant energy, imagination, drive and passion. We are all different; but one thing I believe is consistent is that we do not have nearly the constant source of femdom motivation they desire or fantasize about -- and, more importantly, we can't turn it on and shut it off when it is convenient. Most important is that we can't turn it on "in order to get things done" with our partner, or when shackled with the idea that a secondary thing hangs in the balance if we don't "suck it up" and put on the femdom mode.

Some of us operate on a pretty steady flow of femdom energy and passion, but still, it can't be "on call" or tagged as a "resource" that creates a sense of obligation. And yes, it's easy for you to down play it now and say you don't mean to be micromanaged or that this is overanalyzed, but we've all BEEN in situations with a sub that is passive aggressive, pouting, being lethargic to try to get us to "motivate" him, pouting because we aren't "in the mood" at that given moment.

We prefer relationships where our dominant energy is appreciated for what it is -- natural.

The reason I think a vanilla (money motivated) woman would be better at this is she can "fake it" at will. Any femdom can show a vanilla woman "these are the tasks you need to assign to keep his dick hard and keep him motivated. And if he acts up, do this. Oh, and send him this kind of nasty note 2 times a day to really keep him on his toes. Then, evaluate him at the end of the week. and here's a punishment schedule to use. Have him send pictures of his cock in chastity at random times, so set your clock to go off and remind you..." etc. It's all just a bunch of tasks. What is different is that the vanilla woman won't get as annoyed, frustrated or irritated when the sub starts whining and pouting and needing more direction, because she won't feel like he's topping from the bottom -- she'll just think he's being a pain in the ass.

Akasha

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(in reply to HersAllHers)

Post #: 33

RE: Lady Bosses or They Whip Horses, Don't They? - 12/1/2005 12:29:17 PM

HersAllHers

Posts: 8
Joined: 8/11/2005
Status: offline

It was really cogent and insightful - useful for me - up until that last snide dig

quote:

she'll just think he's being a pain in the ass

If that is what true femdom is about, being patently derogatory - then you are right, I should go with a vanilla girl. Wait, you said that vanilla = mercenary, too? Sheesh, where is a man to turn for companionship.

Aren't there more interesting posts on this board for you to evaluate? I hate to monopolize your attention which, as you point out, is better spent focusing on you.

On a positive note - my first principle is that a Woman should be herself, whoever that is. She is her own person. I don't want to bend or twist any person to be anything different than true to themselves - though probably a little experimentation is healthy for us all. I would love to find someone who fits well with me. I don't know where you got the idea that I wanted to Frankenstein or Stepford anyone - I think you projected that onto my post.

(in reply to AAkasha)

Post #: 34

RE: Lady Bosses or They Whip Horses, Don't They? - 12/1/2005 1:20:25 PM

SweetDommes

Posts: 3313
Joined: 10/5/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: HersAllHers

On a positive note - my first principle is that a Woman should be herself, whoever that is. She is her own person. I don't want to bend or twist any person to be anything different than true to themselves - though probably a little experimentation is healthy for us all. I would love to find someone who fits well with me. I don't know where you got the idea that I wanted to Frankenstein or Stepford anyone - I think you projected that onto my post.

I have been reading this thread, and I have to say that I also got the impression that you wanted your own personal little robot that would do everything you laid out in your initial post - and then some. While the "Stepford Wives" comparison didn't occur to me until you mentioned it, it is rather appropriate to the attitude that I, personally, have gotten from you. If it's the wrong impression, then I'm sorry - but you should know that it isn't just Akasha that has seen it. You are coming across as just another "sub" who wants his fantasies made reality - who sees a FemDom as a means to that end, rather than as a person.

You are also missing a lot of good advice in this thread, I think. Rather than thinking we are accusing you of "sinning" or whatever - why don't you step back and actually look at what you have written and think of ways to say what you really mean, since we are apparently not understanding you on this topic.

Going back a few steps in this mini-flame war ... I don't know of any FemDoms who want anything at all resembling your scenario. Every one that I have ever chatted with has wanted more of a relationship. Very few have wanted long-term cuckolding (and by long-term, I mean, more than a few weeks ... they turn it into a very long, multi-day scene ... but it's far from a permanent arrangement). None have been interested in someone who has to be motivated. They want someone who goes the extra few steps on his/her own. Someone who proves his/her worth by doing all that s/he can without needing a schedule or check-ins, or monitoring. A week or so of this (again, a long multi-day "scene") would be ok ... but after that? Maybe it's just me and my short attention span, but I'd get frustrated and/or bored after about a month, tops.

My advice - if you want to "kick it up a notch" - then do so ... the motivation has to be yours ultimately anyway, or it won't work. Just like trying to quit smoking ... for it to truly be successful, the motivation has to come from within yourself. Once you've done that, you might have more luck finding a FemDom that is interested in you.

(in reply to HersAllHers)

Post #: 35

RE: Lady Bosses or They Whip Horses, Don't They? - 12/1/2005 2:23:57 PM

HersAllHers

Posts: 8
Joined: 8/11/2005
Status: offline

Thanks, SweetDommes - all points well taken.

I think you are right, there is lots of good advice- once again I thank la vicieuse (et delicieuse) Lady Angelika and Mistress Jasmyn - very thoughtful and reflective. I do not see either one of these creating or exaggerating anything in me for the purpose of burning it at the stake. It is my fault to be fighting back against those who bizarrely label me a loser, instead of reinforcing point for point what I find insightful.

Maybe I do learn that despite my best intentions, I am looking for a woman who corresponds to my fantasies. Is *that* a crime? As especially Lady Angelika points out, if I find such a person then quite possibly I'll find neither personal satisfaction nor an increase in productivity. Or as BlkTallFullfig would predict I'll given new meaning to bankruptcy and bring the Domme down with me and it will be the end of life as we know it.

Would I manipulate that person? I would try not to, I would hope she would be on her guard against it, but probably subconsciously I would.

I don't think I mentioned cuckolding must be long term or permanent or non-stop, though heaven knows I regret having raised the topic. You are projecting that on me, then complaining that I demand for 'you' (or the unlucky FemDom who is the target of my affection) to keep up this tiresome ordeal of seeing other men.

Summary -
1. You complain about the flames.
2. You ignore my statement about appreciating Women's autonomy and prefer to accuse me of Stepfordism, in spite of or because I disavowed it .. or it was your and Akasha's impression .. or because I have clear ideas about what I am looking for.
3. You assume that I'm not self-reliant enough to attract a Domme. (!!!!!)

For me, FemDoms ... or people ... are not one size fits all. Not at all. I get the impression that too many people Stepfordize themselves - and then try to put the blame on someone else. I keep on trying to say, this is not about me. Next time I will create a fictitious character and ask people to comment on his predicament!!! :-D I guarantee that THAT fellow will have all kinds of flaws ...........

(in reply to SweetDommes)

Post #: 36

RE: Lady Bosses or They Whip Horses, Don't They? - 12/1/2005 5:34:52 PM

SweetDommes

Posts: 3313
Joined: 10/5/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: HersAllHers

Thanks, SweetDommes - all points well taken.

I think you are right, there is lots of good advice- once again I thank la vicieuse (et delicieuse) Lady Angelika and Mistress Jasmyn - very thoughtful and reflective. I do not see either one of these creating or exaggerating anything in me for the purpose of burning it at the stake. It is my fault to be fighting back against those who bizarrely label me a loser, instead of reinforcing point for point what I find insightful.

Maybe I do learn that despite my best intentions, I am looking for a woman who corresponds to my fantasies. Is *that* a crime? As especially Lady Angelika points out, if I find such a person then quite possibly I'll find neither personal satisfaction nor an increase in productivity. Or as BlkTallFullfig would predict I'll given new meaning to bankruptcy and bring the Domme down with me and it will be the end of life as we know it.

Would I manipulate that person? I would try not to, I would hope she would be on her guard against it, but probably subconsciously I would.

I don't think I mentioned cuckolding must be long term or permanent or non-stop, though heaven knows I regret having raised the topic. You are projecting that on me, then complaining that I demand for 'you' (or the unlucky FemDom who is the target of my affection) to keep up this tiresome ordeal of seeing other men.

Summary -
1. You complain about the flames.
2. You ignore my statement about appreciating Women's autonomy and prefer to accuse me of Stepfordism, in spite of or because I disavowed it .. or it was your and Akasha's impression .. or because I have clear ideas about what I am looking for.
3. You assume that I'm not self-reliant enough to attract a Domme. (!!!!!)

For me, FemDoms ... or people ... are not one size fits all. Not at all. I get the impression that too many people Stepfordize themselves - and then try to put the blame on someone else. I keep on trying to say, this is not about me. Next time I will create a fictitious character and ask people to comment on his predicament!!! :-D I guarantee that THAT fellow will have all kinds of flaws ...........

Your previous postings led your audience (not just me) to believe that you are intending for the "motivated cuckold" situation to be longer than a week or so at a time. That is why I made the comments that I did - however, you have focused on that statement, and seemingly bypassed the others. The cuckolding statement was one of many - why focus on that one?

I did not ignore your statement about autonomy - I simply stated that the impression that I got from your previous posts was that you were looking for something along the lines of a Stepford Wife - I also said that if I'm wrong, them I'm sorry ... how is that accusing you of it?? I did not flame you; I just suggested that you take a step back and look at why so many have gotten the wrong impression from you. I never said that you were looking for a Stepford wife - what I said was that the comparison was appropriate for the attitude that I had gotten from you, thus far. Please read the post before you start putting words into my mouth.

I also did not assume that you are not self-reliant enough to attract a Domme. What I did say is that every Domme that I know has always been far more interested in the suitors who motivated themselves and didn't need outside influence to "kick it up a notch" I know that I don't know every Domme in the world, simply stating what I have seen from my experiences. I also know from watching others in their searches (trying to improve our chances by learning from their experiences as well as our own) that when you go out looking for someone to be your muse, your inspiration, your motivation, your drill sargent, your ... whatever ... that you are setting yourself up for a lot of disappointments.

(in reply to HersAllHers)

Post #: 37

RE: Lady Bosses or They Whip Horses, Don't They? - 12/1/2005 10:28:26 PM

BlkTallFullfig

Posts: 5585
Joined: 6/25/2004
Status: offline

quote:

BlkTallFullfig would predict I'll given new meaning to bankruptcy and bring the Domme down with me and it will be the end of life as we know it.

You misunderstood me... I said the domina having fun with interesting men and your money, would lose focus (of managing you to keep you productive) and possibly bankrupt you (never said you would bring her down). FYI: your kink is not mine, but I certainly am not saying it's wrong for you to want what you want.

I also didn't see where in your initial posts that you only meant this to be a one-week or one month scenario, which makes a world of difference, and in that case, I would have said your best recourse would be to hire a professional.. M

< Message edited by BlkTallFullfig -- 12/1/2005 10:32:47 PM >

_____________________________

a.k.a. SexyBossyBBW
""Touching was, and still is, and will always be, the true revolution" Nikki Giovanni

(in reply to HersAllHers)

Post #: 38

RE: Lady Bosses or They Whip Horses, Don't They? - 12/1/2005 11:18:16 PM

imtempting

Posts: 1280
Joined: 2/11/2005
Status: offline

I think in the end this was on big advertisment hoping to find someone to do it to you, but like AAkasha pretty much said, A mistress cant do everything for you.

Also the comments about the ceo. A ceo would not hire people to make him work harder, rather make his life easier.

(in reply to HersAllHers)

Post #: 39

RE: Lady Bosses or They Whip Horses, Don't They? - 12/2/2005 2:47:41 AM

UtopianRanger

Posts: 3251
Status: offline

quote:

How will he become more productive? It’s not rocket science… motivated to perform for his dominant. Why? Because in return for his obedience he gets everything he’s ever dreamed of having.

In the context of entrepreneurship, people don't become more productive out of their motivation to perform for someone else. It comes from within thou, and the desire to remain independent and self-reliant.

If you read the second to last paragraph in the OP's original post, he clearly states that on more than one occasion, his attempts to reach his implied goal of getting a Domme to make him more productive have been unsuccessful.

And in the last sentence of the last paragraph {If you read between the lines}, the OP subconsciously acknowledges that his proposal is in fact, just a fantasy.

So, to go back and answer the question {in the second to last paragraph} Why doesn't it work? My assessment: Well.... It sure isn't because he keeps picking the wrong woman! It has nothing to do with the right or wrong woman and everything to do with the fact that his proposal is fantasy based, and unrealistic in achieving the desired goal of becoming more productive in his business.

quote:

Do you think these men you speak of who have had partner’s standing beside them, supporting them in their endeavours, didn’t do it, strive to attain success, in some part for the people they love, adore and respect? For their wife, lover, family, children?

I think people who work overtime-hours at a factory have the objective in mind to better provide for the their husband/wife and children.

While one of the benefits of becoming an entrepreneur/self-employed may include monetary success that results in a better life for one's lover /family, the primary objective is to be and remain independent and self-reliant, which are rooted first and foremost in thou.

quote:

Thus, I’ll take your bet and raise you a hundred that this fantasy as you call it is as genuine as your own and remind you to not be so arrogant when replying to posts and threads by assuming someone who deviates from your kink norms is not kosha about their own.

First of all, the OP presented his original post as a legitimate query/proposal for the purpose of attaining a desired goal. At the end of his query/proposal he asked for feedback.

I replied and more less stated, that I thought his desired goal of becoming more productive {Through his proposal} was unachievable, based on the simple fact that it is rooted in fantasy and not reality. If it came off arrogant, then it was misinterpreted because of my ''matter of fact'' way of posting. Sorry, I try hard not to pull any punches.

- The Ranger

< Message edited by UtopianRanger -- 12/2/2005 2:55:55 AM >

_____________________________

"If you are going to win any battle, you have to do one thing. You have to make the mind run the body. Never let the body tell the mind what to do... the body is never tired if the mind is not tired."

-General George S. Patton

(in reply to Jasmyn)

Post #: 40

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