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Obama doesn't get it. - 9/14/2008 9:16:21 PM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
Status: offline 		Obama's press release on Hurricane Ike:
quote:

As another storm threatens the Gulf Coast, I'm praying for the safety of all those in Hurricane Ike's path and urge everyone to heed the warnings of local authorities and seek safer ground immediately. Those who choose to stay are putting not only themselves at risk, but the emergency personnel working to ensure their safety. Now is the time to help those who want to leave but aren't able to - and once the storm passes, we must work to provide swift relief wherever it is needed.


McCain's statement on Hurricane Ike:
quote:

Today, Cindy and I join every American in offering prayers and assistance to those along the Gulf Coast reeling from the damage done by Hurricane Ike. The scope of the destruction is not yet clear, but yesterday I was briefed by U.S. Secretary of Homeland Security Michael Chertoff and Texas Governor Rick Perry about the status of their response operation. Their combined determination to address immediate evacuations and relief support was encouraging, but I am increasingly concerned that there may have been a substantial loss of life. We do know that the economic impact from this storm will be severe. Like most Americans this morning, my concern has been reinforced by scenes of widespread flooding and ferocious winds. And like most Americans, I remain concerned about the impact this storm will have on gas prices across the country, but our priority now must be to help the relief effort in any way we can, and to pray for the safety of those in the s torm's path.

As one of those in Hurricane Ike's path, I know which man understands what the hell is going on around here right now. I know which man hasn't a clue how to lead and hasn't a clue what crisis management is beyond offering up empty, worthless--make that fucking worthless-platitudes. Guess I stand corrected about one thing: sometimes words really don't matter.

What leadership means in dealing with something like Hurricane Ike is 1) recognizing the magnitude of the event (which in this case redefines the word "huge"); 2) recognizing how it mucks up people's lives in both short and long term; and 3) what is most important and most immediate.

Leadership: What John McCain has and what Barack Obama will never have. I am done discussing that worthless useless pathetic Chicago clown. He has no business being on the national stage and does not deserve to enter the Oval Office even as a visitor. Before I merely disliked his politics. Right now I am quite sickened by the thought of the man.

Yeah, I'm a little pissed right now. Lack of hot coffee in the morning and cold beer at night does that.

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RE: Obama doesn't get it. - 9/14/2008 10:22:41 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		But CL, Abadabba was a "Community Organizer!"
And he did it *without* a pony tail!

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RE: Obama doesn't get it. - 9/14/2008 10:27:24 PM   
IamElise


Posts: 40
Joined: 8/23/2008
Status: offline 		Popeye. Only people who sport mullets should be allowed any input into society. And what a wonderful world it would be.

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But McCain is among the clueless Republicans - 9/14/2008 10:42:03 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
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quote:

What leadership means in dealing with something like Hurricane Ike is 1) recognizing the magnitude of the event (which in this case redefines the word "huge"); 2) recognizing how it mucks up people's lives in both short and long term; and 3) what is most important and most immediate.


Then how did Bush ever get elected as a "leader"?

After his daddy messed up Andrew, and Bush didn't even seem to notice Katrina, the Republicans can't afford to screw this one up, as it's just before an election.

Next year, they'll go back to cutting emergency funds while they wait for the Rapture.

< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 9/14/2008 10:43:59 PM >

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RE: But McCain is among the clueless Republicans - 9/14/2008 10:53:15 PM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
Then how did Bush ever get elected as a "leader"?

Well, it's too soon to tell if the FEMA effort in Harris County will be better than in New Orleans, but one thing Bush has already done right in the Ike aftermath is help keep gas supplies plentiful:

quote:

Bush said that the government has suspended Environmental Protection Agency waivers on some reformulated gasoline to make it easier for foreign imports to reach the U.S. market.

Personally, I'm kinda glad right now not to have to pay $4+ at the pump for gas (and, at least so far, I haven't).

Which just highlights the reason McCain deserves to win this election: he is the one with a clue about what a hurricane in the Gulf does not just on the coast but across the country, and he is the one with a clue about what setting priorities means.

< Message edited by celticlord2112 -- 9/14/2008 11:00:05 PM >

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RE: Obama doesn't get it. - 9/14/2008 11:04:08 PM   
HeavansKeeper


Posts: 1254
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline 		<QR>

While I do recognize the vast difference in tact between these two responses, there is an issue of time to be noted.

Obama's press release was dated: Sep 12th, 2008 at 4:24 pm EDT
McCain's press release was dated: September 13, 2008 (No time given)

Hurricane Ike's press release was dated: 230 AM CDT SAT SEP 13 2008
NHC: Ike's Official Landfall

In the last 12 hours before landfall, Obama was urging people to leave. He had no knowledge of Celticlord's 1 and 2, though he clearly did deal with what was most urgent and immediate: getting people to safety.

Quite simply, you're comparing foresight to hindsight.

Edit: Link didn't work. This one should.
http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/text/refresh/MIATCUAT4+shtml/080149.shtml


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RE: Obama doesn't get it. - 9/14/2008 11:19:51 PM   
Hippiekinkster


Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline 		Oh, Christ. Like Senator Obama has a direct line to Chertoff (R) and Gov. Perry (R).

Get fucking real. And, frankly, I could give a flying fuck about how pissed you claim to be. Waaaaa! No hot coffee! Waaaaa! No cold beer! Unfuckingreal.

Fuckwad McSame is "increasingly concerned that there may have been a substantial loss of life. " But the next couple sentences show where his real sympathies lie: "We do know that the economic impact from this storm will be severe." Then: "I remain concerned about the impact this storm will have on gas prices around the country."

Only an asshole Republican would mention gas prices and economic impact before "praying for the safety of those in the storm's path", as though "prayer" has fuck-all to do with anything anyway. I don't think those folks who finally get back to their houses only to find snakes and other fun surprises care if McPOW is praying for them.

Yep, Senator Obama did say "...I'm praying for the safety of all those in Hurricane Ike's path..." but notice the difference. Sen. Obama is himself praying. McSame is telling everyone else that they should pray beside him. "OUR priority now must be to help the relief effort in any way we can (I agree), and TO PRAY..." Don't include me in your fucking superstitious bullshit, you hypocritical fuck.

And in case anyone didn't notice, CL is unbelievably intellectually dishonest when he quotes an Obama statement from BEFORE the hurricane hit, and the McPOW statement AFTER the hurricane hit, and juxtaposes the two, as though there is any ground to do so.

Wow. Just wow. Billions in damage, hundreds of thousands displaced, and now bankrupt (judging by the Repug response to Katrina, which was basically to cut the number of beds in charity hospitals by over half, and to tear down, and not replace, over 5000 low income domiciles, so that the non-white poor couldn't return, among other Christian responses)(hardly anyone was made whole, but the Republican-vetted contractors made money hand over fist), and McAdulterer is worried about gas prices. And people will vote for this fuck? What a sorry piece of shit.

And, tell you what, his "but I was a POW!" schtick has worn out its usefulness. Now I say, "well, fuck-a-doodle-doo, it's 2008, not 1968, buddy. A burn-out like you, propped up by his wife's money, has no business in the White House. The Republican party turned their backs on you in 2000 (just where IS that black kid of yours, anyway, johnny?) but now they think you are the right-wing Messiah?

Fuck McSame and his little dog Sarah too.

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RE: Obama doesn't get it. - 9/15/2008 1:37:01 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline 		The idea that a President needs to understand Hurricanes to be president is the most laughable thing you have posted yet. You are really desperately scratching around for things to show Obama can't lead while McCain can.

OK. Let's say Presidents need to understand hurricane situations, McCain's understanding seems to be ...wring hands and pray!
 
But then, isn't that what Repubklican Presidents do in the face of hurricanes?

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RE: Obama doesn't get it. - 9/15/2008 5:32:13 AM   
cjan


Posts: 3513
Joined: 2/21/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: IamElise

Popeye. Only people who sport mullets should be allowed any input into society. And what a wonderful world it would be.


Agreed. It demonstrates their good judgement, taste , breeding.and a determination to keep up with the times and to hell with fashion !




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RE: Obama doesn't get it. - 9/15/2008 6:34:46 AM   
bipolarber


Posts: 2792
Joined: 9/25/2004
Status: offline 		Yeah, 28 people dead from Ike, and that's a "substaintail loss of life."  But, 250,000 Iraqi civilians killed in "the birth pangs of a new democracy"... that's just chicken feed.

"You're doin' a heckofa job, McCainnie!"

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RE: Obama doesn't get it. - 9/15/2008 8:52:03 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		CL, you did not prove your point. You are familiar with the phrase post hoc ergo propter hoc. It's like Lisa Simpson with the tiger repellant rock when Homer doubted it's efficacy she says "Do you see any tigers around here ?".

HK, you have to realize a few things. Nobody is intellectually dishonest. Your post borders on being a personal attack, at least with that accusation. The fact is, if someone takes the time to type something out on a forum like this, they do believe it. They may be mistaken, and I agree, I think CL is wrong. The point is he believes he is right.

He sees the McCain statement as something demonstrative of leadership qualities and the Obama statement as something lame. I do not see the distinction.

It took me forty eight years to learn to argue effectively. I am still not perfect at it, but anything that could be construed as a personal attack is counterproductive. In a verbal argument I've learned tactics like lowering my voice. Let the opponent ramble and lowly say for example "What about this". (this could be anything). Say it again, make yourself hard to hear. As they ramble they see your lips moving and eventually run out of wind. Then they will ask "What about what ?". That's when you got them.

People filter their input through their own thoughts and opinions. I always thought that the phrase post hoc ergo propter hoc was used in an almost sarcastic way, to say that this fact does not prove that fact, or that this event only seems to be preciptated by that event because it preceeded that event. Perhaps I am incorrect, but the way I see it is for example - when I put my right sock and shoe on first in the morning, I don't get into a car wreck.

Basically anything can be taken as proof for something else, which it does not prove at all. It happens all the time. If scientific investigation and research was done that way we would still be riding around on horses. I don't know where these traits come from, but they exist and are a very strong influence. I also agree that religion is a big factor, and has done alot more harm than good.

Of course religion has nothing to do with many things wrong, so it is not totally to blame. Japan attacks us, we attack Germany. A group in Afghanistan attacks us so we attack Iraq. These people make no sense.

The bottom line is, Obama doesn't get it, but neither does McCain. Those people don't need your prayers, they need a place to live. They need food and water. They also need jobs, and the disaster of free trade has destroyed the latter, and it was bipartisan. None of these people "get it" because they were raised in a different environment.

Even Ron Paul doesn't "get it". He wants to stop abortion, and if he succeeded in doing that I would say let him adopt every unwanted child born in this country. Every one of them has an agenda that they will put ahead of the good of the country. All we can do is choose between them. Sad but true.

T

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RE: Obama doesn't get it. - 9/15/2008 11:04:25 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		I wish Ron Paul was even on the radar screen.

can you imagine the value of a $ if his ideas started to spread?

T, well said in the regard that Obama doesnt get it, nor does McCain.  That is the kicker..that YET AGAIN we have this non choice of a choice.

In Russia or wherever- one had the choice of "none of the above".   We should have that here. It might be time for proportional voting as well.

But if I can say anything...  one votes officially 1 per 4 years.  Your silence is tacic approval of the status quo. and letter to congress would break that open.

What a cricus.     but it isnt funny....

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RE: Obama doesn't get it. - 9/15/2008 11:46:41 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		Hunk,the word is TACIT. You might be interested in my "Little Man" thread. It was partly spurred on by this one.

T

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RE: Obama doesn't get it. - 9/15/2008 12:02:32 PM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		You don't have a back-up generator for keeping food cold or a camping stove fueled by propane for heating your coffee? I do hope you have have enough fresh water and food in the house.  Are you running the computer from a battery or did your power come back on?

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112
Yeah, I'm a little pissed right now. Lack of hot coffee in the morning and cold beer at night does that.


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RE: Obama doesn't get it. - 9/15/2008 6:37:00 PM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		Well.. I think you are really cute but.. what is wrong about stressing the need to get the heck out of dodge and let the proper forces to their job? 
People that stay behind are causing more work.  One, you have to look for their dead bodies and ID them.  Two, if they do live you have to rescue them.

Mccains speech which came a day later, after landfall makes sense when you are dealing with the aftermath.  People are lost (see above), lets rescue them, lets get this place back together so that there is less impact on gas.. Umm.. how about first.. get the heck out of dodge so people can do their freakin job. 
First things first.
Anyone can spread platitudes.

I am not for mccaine or obama, but even I can see that.
Kyst

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RE: Obama doesn't get it. - 9/15/2008 8:03:52 PM   
HeavansKeeper


Posts: 1254
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

HK, you have to realize a few things. Nobody is intellectually dishonest. Your post borders on being a personal attack, at least with that accusation. The fact is, if someone takes the time to type something out on a forum like this, they do believe it. They may be mistaken, and I agree, I think CL is wrong. The point is he believes he is right.

He sees the McCain statement as something demonstrative of leadership qualities and the Obama statement as something lame. I do not see the distinction.

It took me forty eight years to learn to argue effectively. I am still not perfect at it, but anything that could be construed as a personal attack is counterproductive. In a verbal argument I've learned tactics like lowering my voice. Let the opponent ramble and lowly say for example "What about this". (this could be anything). Say it again, make yourself hard to hear. As they ramble they see your lips moving and eventually run out of wind. Then they will ask "What about what ?". That's when you got them.

Basically anything can be taken as proof for something else, which it does not prove at all. It happens all the time. If scientific investigation and research was done that way we would still be riding around on horses. I don't know where these traits come from, but they exist and are a very strong influence. I also agree that religion is a big factor, and has done alot more harm than good.

The bottom line is, Obama doesn't get it, but neither does McCain. Those people don't need your prayers, they need a place to live. They need food and water. They also need jobs, and the disaster of free trade has destroyed the latter, and it was bipartisan. None of these people "get it" because they were raised in a different environment.



It's important to note I snipped a few points from the above post.

1) I do not see my post as a personal attack in any regard. In addition to throwing out the times of the press releases, I wanted to make clear why the time difference was important. In fact, I stifled the bulk of my opinion to try and be unbiased and based on fact. Which brings me to point two.

2) "Anything can be taken as proof for something else." While this may be true in the here-say, paraphrase, dirty trick, media cut world of politics, it is not true in physics. Specifically regarding time. The order of events, and time between them is irrefutable. It is simply beyond contestation. The fact that McCain had the knowledge of how bad the storm was allowed him to make a more "understanding" response. It is not an unfair advantage, by any means, but it is unfair to compare the two press releases. More accurate would be to say "Obama released this message, urging people, pleading with them to get out of the area. I couldn't find anything from McCain on the subject." Same exact info as the OP, different way of saying it.

3) "The fact is, if someone takes the time to type something out on a forum like this, they do believe it." True, usually. But this is a public forum. Everything posted here is open to scrutiny and debate, whether welcomed or not.

CelticLord is a pretty cool guy in my experience. We clearly differ on political stances, and I do feel badly for what he's had to go through - I had it during Wilma - It's horrible.

And you're right, Termyn8or. The people affected by Ike don't need kind words and prayers. They need 10% of the RNC's (And DNC's [Do Democrats call it the Democratic National Convention?]) campaign budget spent on those crappy FEMA homes.




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RE: Obama doesn't get it. - 9/16/2008 12:19:59 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		Sorry HK, I meant the other HK. Lol. I knew I would overabbreviate one day.

I meant HippieKinkster, I guess I will have to exercise a few more keystrokes in the future. Darn.

As strange as I may sound at times, I don't even disagree with Celtic, Obama's going to pray for you, oh great. I just saw nothing any better in the McCain statement.

These people don't need prayers, but some pieces of paper that say "In God We Trust" might come in handy.

Incidentally we have a member down there helping in the relief/evacuation efforts. If anyone wants to pray, pray for that person to get home unshot by looters and unswept under the water. They have family. I will not reveal who it is because it would be wrong until and unless they decide to reveal it.

Y'know it just occurred to me,  it almost seems that these bigwigs think their prayers are worth more than those of the average people.

T

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RE: Obama doesn't get it. - 9/16/2008 12:31:54 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

Y'know it just occurred to me,  it almost seems that these bigwigs think their prayers are worth more than those of the average people.



They are more valuable, their lives are worth more, and so are their prayers . When a politician says he or she is going to say a prayer for the rest of us, it's just an excuse not to do anything.

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RE: Obama doesn't get it. - 9/16/2008 12:39:45 PM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112
I am done discussing that worthless useless pathetic Chicago clown. He has no business being on the national stage and does not deserve to enter the Oval Office even as a visitor. Before I merely disliked his politics. Right now I am quite sickened by the thought of the man.


Trust me, you are not half as sick as I am. I am sick to death that people like you are buying into the same worthless platitudes that keeps getting spewed out by the same republican political spin machine that uses pathetic excuses of americans like Bush, McCain and the horror of Palin to spread their filth.

< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 9/16/2008 12:40:11 PM >

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My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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RE: Obama doesn't get it. - 9/16/2008 12:41:49 PM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

I am done discussing that worthless useless pathetic Chicago clown.


Does this mean you'll only be starting anti-Obama threads every other day or just once a day?

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Profile   Post #: 20
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